Christians who have rocked the world: fighting against slavery

[FredRutherford]

Originally Posted by FredRutherford

The New Testament was written mostly by "common" people, members of the underclass.

Not those in authority.

 

 

irrelevant. the message it contains was preached by rich and poor alike, as gospel. I truly cannot see your point here.

 

 

again, what's your point?

I don't see its relevance to the topic....

 

 

And none more so than from Christians.

 

The New Testament didn't urge people to organize and fight slavery or other societal ills, get involved in politics, march upon and overthrow the brutal atheistic leaders who some posters here seem to support more than freedom-loving people.

 

So you're personally responsible for all current wrongs being done in the world such as political and religious imprisonment?

You're not personally speaking-out against such horrible acts?

 

Interesting how some hold others to standards they don't require of others.

[thatone]

pointing out that nazareth didn't exist, for example, is not 'tearing down' it's simply stating a fact.

 

your need to believe that your belief is fact and anyone who doesn't agree is 'attacking you' and you must 'defend your faith' from them is how christians wind up being murderers and oppressors, not the other way around.

 

as i said, a straw man, and a bloody one at that, which history also points out.

 

secular governments do not execute with wanton brutality those who believe in religion solely because they believe in something different.

 

christian governments in your 'ancient world' did this regularly, and muslim governments still do it to this day.

 

given their way a good number of christians would still do it, or did you miss all of these pastors in the US calling for executing of homosexuals just a couple of weeks ago?

[FredRutherford]

Then you shouldn't read the bible that was created by people like that. The same man, Constantine 1, originally a pagan, and a man who murdered his wife and son, had christian writings stolen, burning what offended him, had christians imprisoned or killed for their beliefs is the same man who later created a committee to go through the remaining stolen writings to decide what to put in the bible that would unite the different religious groups who inhabited his empire for the purposes of war.

 

Enjoy his handiwork.

Constantine didn't write the New Testament.

He appeared centuries later. Like the Fourth Century.

 

Those who wrote the Christian documents were the underclass, the slaves, the people the Emperors detested and ordered murdered.

They weren't in any way in power and would've been imprisoned if they attempted to influence or change laws, like requesting freedom of conscience or religion.

 

A good chunk of the New Testament was written by a man imprisoned for his beliefs.

The Roman soldiers could find nothing wrong with his actions but others jealous of him and those that hated his views wanted him silenced and murdered.

 

Again, a very basic lack of historical understanding here.

[FredRutherford]

secular governments do not execute with wanton brutality those who believe in religion solely because they believe in something different.

Tell that to the Jews and Christians who were forced to leave their homes in Nazi Germany and Communist Russia.

And Communist China which murders infant girls.

 

But as a raging atheist who attacks anyone who dares utters anything Christian, you'd prefer those types of governments, right?

Your reasoning slams Christians for past ills?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

Guilty by association only works one way I guess.

[TaraMaiden]

What has all this got to do with the topic of the thread?????

[sally4sara]

Constantine didn't write the New Testament.

He appeared centuries later. Like the Fourth Century.

 

Those who wrote the Christian documents were the underclass, the slaves, the people the Emperors detested and ordered murdered.

They weren't in any way in power and would've been imprisoned if they attempted to influence or change laws, like requesting freedom of conscience or religion.

 

A good chunk of the New Testament was written by a man imprisoned for his beliefs.

The Roman soldiers could find nothing wrong with his actions but others jealous of him and those that hated his views wanted him silenced and murdered.

 

Again, a very basic lack of historical understanding here.

 

Do you really think the bible you read poofed into existence on the day the first "christian" writing was created? I believe I just wrote that the writings existed and were hunted, sometimes destroyed, stolen and then at a later date -used to create a book we now call the bible. I didn't say he invented christianity. I said he organized the creating of the first bible. And he did.

[FredRutherford]

What has all this got to do with the topic of the thread?????

You and the vicious atheists who get their nose all bent out of shape if some public school teacher says the words "Christmas" or "Easter" are slurring anyone who dares express a contrary belief.

 

Because there were ills in the world the time the slaves and underclass people wrote the New Testament, they're the ones responsible for such wrongs.

 

Remarkable how a supposed "tolerant" practitioner of an Eastern religion sides with those who historically sided with brutal atheistic rulers.

Avowed atheists never founded orphanages, charities, soup kitchens, nor supported the free expression of religion or political views.

The historical record shows atheists a very intolerant group.

 

BeTheButterfly is spot-on here. Christians were instrumental in stopping many historical ills such as slavery, but certain people here hate that with a vengance and display their lack of knowledge in their postings.

[FredRutherford]

Do you really think the bible you read poofed into existence on the day the first "christian" writing was created? I believe I just wrote that the writings existed and were hunted, sometimes destroyed, stolen and then at a later date -used to create a book we now call the bible. I didn't say he invented christianity. I said he organized the creating of the first bible. And he did.

 

 

Of course the Bible didn't just land on a shelf and church fathers helped assemble the books.

You tried to slur a whole group of people by one individual who didn't write the New Testament.

 

No one is worshiping at the temple of Constantine.

 

And bec. some of the corrupt popes during the Middle Ages abused their power and ordered soldiers to go in and murder dissenting groups of Christians, that somehow negates all of Catholicism and Christianity?

[FredRutherford]

I've addressed this briefly before. Also, here is a list of secular charity organisations.

Those are mostly modern organizations.

 

In the ancient world, militant atheists never lifted a finger to help the needy, the homeless, the ill.

They kicked them to the streets and cursed those who professed Christianity.

 

As much as your type likes to slur all modern Christians, sorry, but we're gonna point out how little atheists actually did to help end slavery, feed the hungry, etc.

The historical record shows they more likely supported the brutal regimes.

 

 

 

In short, non-religious people do plenty to help others. And any organisation of moderate size or greater will have staff, volunteers and donators that cross the spectrum of belief. With few exceptions, religious people donate to secular charities and vice versa. For most people, the act of helping is all that matters, not vainly attaching any good deed to some form of dogma and trying to keep score.

Of course. I never said otherwise.

Unlike other posters who in other threads posted how non-religious people are "superior" to religious people.

Nothing could be farther from the truth.

[TaraMaiden]

You and the vicious atheists who get their nose all bent out of shape if some public school teacher says the words "Christmas" or "Easter" are slurring anyone who dares express a contrary belief.

I enjoy Christmas and Easter...both of which stemmed and originated form pagan ritual, of course....

 

Because there were ills in the world the time the slaves and underclass people wrote the New Testament, they're the ones responsible for such wrongs.

Manipulation of purity is a heinous act. What once may have been pure has been dirtied and sullied by aeons of abuse.

 

Remarkable how a supposed "tolerant" practitioner of an Eastern religion sides with those who historically sided with brutal atheistic rulers.

I haven't 'sided' with anyone. I have my own voice, and i don't see any of my words as being vicious. Where have I been vicious?

Avowed atheists never founded orphanages, charities, soup kitchens, nor supported the free expression of religion or political views.

The historical record shows atheists a very intolerant group.

When you historically grasp the significance of what has been done in the name of god and religion, and is still being practised today, it's not hard to see why some Atheists are so intolerant. It swings both ways, doesn't it...?

 

BeTheButterfly is spot-on here. Christians were instrumental in stopping many historical ills such as slavery, but certain people here hate that with a vengance and display their lack of knowledge in their postings.

Why do Christians not acknowledge the wrongdoings of their devout forefathers and contemporaries? Why do they not admit that those who founded such institutions and so active for freedom, were merely undoing the crimes of equally devoted and faithful preceding, god-fearing christians?

[FredRutherford]

Why do Christians not acknowledge the wrongdoings of their devout forefathers and contemporaries? Why do they not admit that those who founded such institutions and so active for freedom, were merely undoing the crimes of equally devoted and faithful preceding, god-fearing christians?

What does THIS have to do with the thread?

 

Just another broadside against Christians.

 

Again, wouldn't have expected this from a practitioner of a supposedly "tolerant" Eastern religion.

[TaraMaiden]

Actually, it has more to do with the thread than all your posts put together.

 

Why dig at a tolerant Eastern Religion that has existed for a good 500 years longer than Christianity, yet has a far cleaner record?

 

Why do my view make me any less tolerant than your views on atheists, as a Christian?

Should you nor be adhering to Christ's new commandment, of Loving others, as he loved?

I see precious little brotherly love and godly tolerance in your posts... vicious?

 

How so?

[TaraMaiden]

Many Atheists today seem to contribute the vast advancements in science and technology to people not believing in God. However, throughout history, amazing leaps of discovery, as well as creative inventions, have been accomplished by Theists as well. Freedom to study and experiment with ideas brought about the modern comforts we so enjoy. In addition, Theists, in particular Christians, made great strides in human rights and in helping people. Human rights include freedom from slavery.

From the first post, first paragraph.

 

Why do Christians not acknowledge the wrongdoings of their devout forefathers and contemporaries? Why do they not admit that those who founded such institutions and so active for freedom, were merely undoing the crimes of equally devoted and faithful preceding, god-fearing christians?

 

See?

Completely on-topic.

Curious that you failed to address any other point in my post, chose to single this out as being off-topic, and in fact, it's completely ON topic...

 

If you wish to criticise my posts, or my chosen calling, please try to be educated and logical about it.

[Nohbody]

If we had just wised up and started worshiping Dagon, the Sea God of the Old testament whose people were enslaved and murdered, I think that we could have learned a valuable lesson about treating others as we'd like to be treated.

 

Specifically, not enslaving and murdering people because they have a different set of beliefs.

 

Because I'm pretty sure that's what Dagon was all about.

According to this book I read that was purportedly written by his prophets under his divine auspices.

 

What, you don't believe me?

[FredRutherford]

Actually, it has more to do with the thread than all your posts put together.

 

Why dig at a tolerant Eastern Religion that has existed for a good 500 years longer than Christianity, yet has a far cleaner record?

 

Why do my view make me any less tolerant than your views on atheists, as a Christian?

Should you nor be adhering to Christ's new commandment, of Loving others, as he loved?

I see precious little brotherly love and godly tolerance in your posts... vicious?

 

How so?

Let's make you squirm some.

 

Where is your religion at combating this kind of evil?

 

Factory raids reveal child labor persists in India - Yahoo! News

 

Does ancient Hindu and Buddhist literature speak out against such abuses?

If not, why not?

 

Where are the Buddhists and Hindus speaking-out against an evil practice like this?

Why is it allowed to persist?

Why dig at a tolerant Eastern Religion that has existed for a good 500 years longer than Christianity, yet has a far cleaner record?

Would say India is long overdue for some reforms.

 

At least in the West, "Christian" nations ended the evil of slavery, gave women the right to vote, prohibited discrimination based on class and gender, etc.

Would like to see how Eastern religions advance their societies in similar ways.

 

Just bec. the ancient texts predated these abuses by aeons, we're not gonna give Eastern religions a pass as atheists and non-Christians are slurring the New Testament for all manner of world evils.....

Edited June 12, 2012 by FredRutherford

[thatone]

Tell that to the Jews and Christians who were forced to leave their homes in Nazi Germany and Communist Russia.

And Communist China which murders infant girls.

 

But as a raging atheist who attacks anyone who dares utters anything Christian, you'd prefer those types of governments, right?

Your reasoning slams Christians for past ills?

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

Guilty by association only works one way I guess.

 

The nazi party wasn't secular, it was christian. Hitler's christianity is no different than mel gibson's.

 

And as for the rest as I've pointed out before, communist nations are not really secular either, they are replacing one religion with another. Nationalism is religion, it's faith in your 'side' simply because it's your side.

 

Any system of belief that can ask people to trust without merit can be likened to religion.

 

As for your point about child labor in india and china, it's the result of policy advocated by good christian conservatives, who do you think hires them to build that stuff for hobby lobby? You think hobby lobby is too busy in prayer meetings to know that their chinese/indian goods come from sweatshops?

[d'Arthez]

Where are the Buddhists and Hindus speaking-out against an evil practice like this?

You do realize there are more Christians than Buddhists in India ?

[sally4sara]

Of course the Bible didn't just land on a shelf and church fathers helped assemble the books.

You tried to slur a whole group of people by one individual who didn't write the New Testament.

?

And you're trying to ignore a lot of peaceful, caring atheists who helped fight slavery by saying christianity is responsible. Christians owned slaves too. If fighting slavery way something Christianity was responsible for, none would have owned slaves.

 

Thanks for playing along and helping me make that point.

[TaraMaiden]

Let's make you squirm some.

"Let's"? Ok.... 'Let's'try....

 

Where is your religion at combating this kind of evil?

Let me see, first of all, if i can break this down for you...

 

India known as the land of spirituality and philosophy, was the birthplace of some religions, which even exist today in the world.

 

The most dominant religion in India today is Hinduism. About 80% of Indians are Hindus.

Around 500 BC two other religions developed in India, namely, Buddhism and Jainism. Today only about 0.5% of Indians are Jains and about 0.7% are Buddhist.

One comparatively new religion in India is Sikhism . About 2% of Indians are Sikhs.

The largest non-Indian religion is Islam. They are about 12% of India's population. Christians are more then 2% of India's population. There are also Zoroastrians who even though make less then 0.01% of India's population, are known around India. There are also a few thousand Jews in India.

Judaism and Christianity might have arrived in India before they arrived in Europe.

From here.

 

 

Does ancient Hindu and Buddhist literature speak out against such abuses?

If not, why not?

Hinduism sees karma amd free-will interwoven and would say that these children are subject to the results of previous life actions.

Buddhism does nor entirely subscribe to such views.

The usage and abusage of any person to their detriment is condemned and soundly rejected in Buddhism.

Curiously, the majority of Buddhists in India are actually Tibetan refugees, who themselves have escaped the oppressive, dominant, hostile and violent regime of the Chinese, which has incarcerated, tortured and murdered countless Tibetan Buddhists in the past 50 years. in fact, even now, as we speak, despicable happenings are still occurring in Tibet.

 

but I'm sure i digress....

 

 

Where are the Buddhists and Hindus speaking-out against an evil practice like this?

Why is it allowed to persist?

Hindus, i don't know, but Buddhists - like, say, Jews - are very aware of the importance of exercising love, compassion and perpetuating Peace and harmony.

Would say India is long overdue for some reforms.

Would say china, Middle East, and some Western sectors could do with same.

 

At least in the West, "Christian" nations ended the evil of slavery, gave women the right to vote, prohibited discrimination based on class and gender, etc.

Would like to see how Eastern religions advance their societies in similar ways.

The West claims they have. Scrutiny of some matters would hold that to be far from true.

 

Just bec. the ancient texts predated these abuses by aeons, we're not gonna give Eastern religions a pass as atheists and non-Christians are slurring the New Testament for all manner of world evils.....

Yes. but they're overt about it. Hypocrisy is a terrible thing......

[wuggle]

Hindus, i don't know, but Buddhists - like, say, Jews - are very aware of the importance of exercising love, compassion and perpetuating Peace and harmony.

 

Only know one Hindu, but say this sums them up perfectly.

[pureinheart]

The nazi party wasn't secular, it was christian. Hitler's christianity is no different than mel gibson's.

 

 

 

Hitler "claimed" to be a Christian", but wasn't....

 

Was Hitler a Christian?

[thatone]

Hitler "claimed" to be a Christian", but wasn't....

 

Was Hitler a Christian?

 

his own words say he was a christian and the catholic church would not condemn him when they had something to lose by doing so, while we're at it.

 

so no, a third party's opinions do not trump the words from his own mouth, no matter how badly christians need them to do so to prop up their arguments.

Edited June 13, 2012 by thatone

[TaraMaiden]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaraMaiden

Hindus, i don't know, but Buddhists - like, say, Jews - are very aware of the importance of exercising love, compassion and perpetuating Peace and harmony.

 

Only know one Hindu, but say this sums them up perfectly.

 

I'd like to make it clear here, I was referring my ignorance to what Hindu teachings, texts and scriptures have to teach on the matter; I haven't studied them, so I would never presume to state anything on their behalf - but yes, i too have several Hindu friends, and I agree, they're lovely people.

Several members of the Buddhist temple I used to attend, were Hindus.

[FredRutherford]

Originally Posted by thatone

The nazi party wasn't secular, it was christian. Hitler's christianity is no different than mel gibson's.

Highly inflammatory and once again, false information.

 

According to biographies I've viewed on A&E and Bio, Hitler's regime was based on the occult.

 

Originally Posted by pureinheart

Hitler "claimed" to be a Christian", but wasn't....

 

Was Hitler a Christian?

his own words say he was a christian and the catholic church would not condemn him when they had something to lose by doing so, while we're at it.

 

so no, a third party's opinions do not trump the words from his own mouth, no matter how badly christians need them to do so to prop up their arguments.

 

So what?

Shall we list all the infamous atheists?

 

Stalin- murdered millions

Lenin

Chairman Mao- murdered millions

Pol Pot

Jeffery Dahmer was during his killings

Ted Kaczynski- Unabomber

Ted Bundy- serial killer

The Columbine shooters

[Nohbody]

Great. Religious people have killed people. Atheists have killed people.

 

This thread has become worthless.