How does the dating and sex thing actually work?

[Pirouette]

Exactly, rejection should have absolutely no impact on one's self. While there may be times when it may hurt, it should never wound, so to speak. Self worth is really what matters the most when it comes to handling rejection.

 

And if we return to the subject of dating, man or woman, would you find it attractive if someone exhibited signs that they were so fragile inside, that they had no true sense of self, that their moods would swing wildly from highs to lows, and that they'd basically be looking at you to make them a whole person?

 

That is why to me, a lack of confidence is a real turn-off, be it in a friend or a romantic interest.

 

At the same time, confidence isn't just black and white, yes or no, something you have or just don't. There are degrees of it, times when it can be lower, times when it can be higher. It is a work in process that you must put real effort into to maintain. Just the more you build it up, the easier it gets. To a lot of people, it can seem like a black and white issue because having very little is so different from having a lot, but too far in either direction is not desirable.

[sid3]

It's much more complicated than that.

 

The main factors that affect the sting of the rejection is one's own self-esteem and how much they like/value/care about the person doing the rejecting.

 

Few things hurt more then getting rejected by a person I really like.

 

Are you kidding me? I really like just about every attractive lady I see these days, after all its summertime and they're all dressed really nice. Not to mention their smiles that could stop traffic. While I agree that 'really' liking a specific person can cause rejection to sting a bit more, I like myself way more than them. Seriously, as a single guy you should be absolutely overwhelmed with just how many options you have. Every no is one less you'll have to hear before getting a yes, or something like that.

[somedude81]

Are you kidding me? I really like just about every attractive lady I see these days, after all its summertime and they're all dressed really nice. Not to mention their smiles that could stop traffic. While I agree that 'really' liking a specific person can cause rejection to sting a bit more, I like myself way more than them. Seriously, as a single guy you should be absolutely overwhelmed with just how many options you have. Every no is one less you'll have to hear before getting a yes, or something like that.

Are you kidding me?

 

Do you know nothing of my situation?

 

In case you haven't, me 30 years old, single, never had a girlfriend, haven't had sex in three years and I've never been with a girl I actually liked, only kissed one girl and that was somewhere between 7 and 9 years ago, last date I had was about two years ago. So forget about me being overwhelmed with how many options I have, it should be more surprising that I haven't jumped off a bridge yet.

[Pirouette]

It's much more complicated than that.

 

The main factors that affect the sting of the rejection is one's own self-esteem and how much they like/value/care about the person doing the rejecting.

 

Few things hurt more then getting rejected by a person I really like.

 

Also, I'm at the point where I desperately need to be accepted by somebody. All my life women have told me that I'm not good enough. It shouldn't be hard to guess how that has effected me.

 

I agree, the biggest factor determining the sting of rejection is your own self esteem. I can see how you and many other people in this world would be at a loss on how to build that up. But you really need to seriously consider how you can do that. Without it, you will not find happiness, nor is it something someone else can hand to you.

 

Returning to the rejection part of someone you like and care about, which means of course that you must be friends, rejection of you as a romantic partner is not a rejection of everything about you. It is saying I don't wish to date you. That's it. It's not saying you are unlikeable, that you're stupid, that you're so ugly I cannot look at you, that I don't enjoy your company, that I don't like talking to you, that nothing about you is good enough, because if they were saying that you never would have become friends in the first place. You take it that way because of poor self esteem, because you are looking to others to determine your worth. In your mind, a rejection of one thing is a rejection of everything. It is very all or nothing with you.

 

Let me tell you though, love without reciprocation, is not real love. You cannot possibly have a true, lasting love with these girls because they do not love you back in that sense. You have not lived with them and seen the best and worst parts of their character and had them look at yours and still chosen to love them and retained your attraction to them. You never got that far.

 

What you had with them was a strong like, and a strong attraction on your part. They also had a strong like, but without the stong attraction. Then, when they did something you did not like, the rejection, it wiped away all the good things that came before and made them into nothing. Your relationship with them was so fragile that it crumbled away. If they have decent self-esteem, they would be bewildered by such because their liking for you is rooted in a solid foundation of themselves and has several layers. It would not just disappear. Because you're liking of them does not have a solid base, was in fact tethered to nothing, it makes perfect sense to you that it just blew away as if it was never there.

Edited July 1, 2012 by Pirouette
Typos!

[sid3]

Are you kidding me?

 

Do you know nothing of my situation?

 

In case you haven't, me 30 years old, single, never had a girlfriend, haven't had sex in three years and I've never been with a girl I actually liked, only kissed one girl and that was somewhere between 7 and 9 years ago, last date I had was about two years ago. So forget about me being overwhelmed with how many options I have, it should be more surprising that I haven't jumped off a bridge yet.

 

Wow! I had no idea your situation was that extreme. That sucks dude. And here I thought you were an attention whore that liked posting long threads on LS.

 

So on the bright side, things can't get much worse! Question is what are you doing about it to make things better.I'll spare you the advice you've obviously gotten countless times already. I'm convinced any man can achieve even the simplest of goals if he wants it bad enough, spend more time chasing and less time posting is all I can suggest. Seriously, if you really, really wanted to meet women how would you have even a minute of spare time to be on LS?

[SJC2008]

Are you kidding me?

 

Do you know nothing of my situation?

 

In case you haven't, me 30 years old, single, never had a girlfriend, haven't had sex in three years and I've never been with a girl I actually liked, only kissed one girl and that was somewhere between 7 and 9 years ago, last date I had was about two years ago. So forget about me being overwhelmed with how many options I have, it should be more surprising that I haven't jumped off a bridge yet.

 

Hell I haven't had sex since I lost my virginitay at 22! My time will come no pun intended.

 

I wish I had advice for you but you seem to have no problem flirting so let's try the other end of the spectrum mabye you flirt too much? To where you are being labeld a flirt? To me flirting is to show interest/tell a woman you're not scared of the coochie if that makes any sense. Don't over do it.

[Teknoe]

Also, I'm at the point where I desperately need to be accepted by somebody. All my life women have told me that I'm not good enough. It shouldn't be hard to guess how that has effected me.

 

If you are truly at this point in life right now, then would you reconsider joining in on a singles activity night? I can guarantee you that those guys and girls would shower plenty of love on you, something you claim you desperately need right now.

 

So, it's there if you want to seek it out.

 

I just have my doubts about how proactive you will be, based on your history. I also get the sneaky feeling your mind is already coming up with excuses of why you will not step outside your comfort zone and seek out a possible support circle (something I believe you need desperately, and you yourself said so much). One of the problems is you're seeking this validation ONLY in the form of a girlfriend, and sorry, no girl is doing this. However, if you would seek it from a source of friendship/support, then you might actually find yourself walking toward healing.

 

As always it's your choice.

[zengirl]

If she refused, I would have left and probably never talk to her again.

 

Then you aren't friends. If a refusal to escalate a relationship beyond that point means the end of the relationship to ANY degree, then you aren't friends. "Were never" friends doesn't reflect the fact that Rs can change over time perhaps, but you definitely aren't a friend now. Not that she knows that. And the only thing that changed that was the potential in YOUR mind for sex. SD, you clearly value sex and don't value friendship, though, so that's not surprising to me.

[LittlePrince]

Then you aren't friends. If a refusal to escalate a relationship beyond that point means the end of the relationship to ANY degree, then you aren't friends. "Were never" friends doesn't reflect the fact that Rs can change over time perhaps, but you definitely aren't a friend now. Not that she knows that. And the only thing that changed that was the potential in YOUR mind for sex. SD, you clearly value sex and don't value friendship, though, so that's not surprising to me.

Women weren't built for friendship. Even toward other females women are terrible friends.

[LittlePrince]

there's an alert us button. i'm using it. you post junk.

I find that hilarious. The troll pushing the alert button.

[Pirouette]

Are you kidding me?

 

Do you know nothing of my situation?

 

In case you haven't, me 30 years old, single, never had a girlfriend, haven't had sex in three years and I've never been with a girl I actually liked, only kissed one girl and that was somewhere between 7 and 9 years ago, last date I had was about two years ago. So forget about me being overwhelmed with how many options I have, it should be more surprising that I haven't jumped off a bridge yet.

 

I've spent a little time thinking about your situation, so I'm going to lay out my perspective for you. You can agree, disagree, ignore, reflect, dismiss, whatever. I do hope you take the time to read it otherwise I wasted all this brain energy and typing time!

 

From your posts, this is what I think about where you are coming from. You are lonely. You are saddened and depressed. You were shy and awkward in your teenage and formative years and lost within your own internal world, and this has carried into your adult life. Now that you are an adult and still lonely and unfulfilled, you are looking for that one person who can make it all better, someone who will know you, approve of you, love you, and be your best friend. They will affirm for you that everything is ok, that you have worth. Right now, almost any female will do. When I frame your actions and reactions within this view, the things you do become understandable.

 

Questions of self-esteem and internal fortitude aside (which are really important, but beyond my expertise), you are still so immersed in your own feelings and perspective, that you cannot see things from other people's POV. You cannot understand their motivations and see them as individuals separate from your own wants and desires. This is problematic because at best, to have a functioning relationship with other people and genuinely care about them, you have to see them for who they are and their own individual and unique situation. At worst, even if you don't care about them personally, if you don't understand their actions and the possible motivations behind them, you won't be able to act correctly and essentially manipulate the situation into an outcome you want.

 

 

This is what I think about how it works generally with a lot of the people my age who are looking for real relationships, which are people in their 20s. I have less experience with older generations and cannot comment. Yes, you meet people of the opposite sex who you immediately think are so unattractive that chances of it turning romatic are slim to none. There is a possibility of friendship. Then, you can meet people so attractive to you, that you immediately would want to have sex with them. There is a possibility of friendship. Nearly everyone else, the majority, falls into the middle, where they look ok enough that sex is possible but not thought about too seriously. There is a possibility of friendship.

 

 

Every action and reaction with this newly met person adds, subtracts, or is neutral to the friendship pot. Every action and reaction increases, decreases, or maintains the feeling of attraction. Other people have their own set of criteria for what they look for in a friend or romatic partner, conscious or subconscious. Every interaction you have with a person will move you along their spectrum. Nice and friendly? Generally move up in friendship, not necessarily in attraction. Exhibit overreactions and petulance, generally move down in friendship and attractiveness. Everyone has different standards, but of course their are certain overlaps in the general population that most people are looking for in a friend and in a romantic partner. You should know what they are.

 

When your neighbour story is contrasted with ThaWholigan's friend story just above, I see a difference. Do you?

 

You were all gung-ho when in your mind there was a possibility of sex. You enthusiatically agreed to go over. She said, by the way, my other friend who is an ex is coming too. You immediately soured and changed your mind. In my perspective, you would have gone down in friendship and attractiveness. You showed that you didn't actually care about spending time with her. You didn't care about just socializing and having a fun time with friends. All you cared about was what you could get out of someone.

 

In ThaWholigan's story, she also said, by the way this other guy is coming. His response was, sure no problem, whatever, let's have fun! He went up in her friendship and attractiveness scale. He went and was friendly, confident, and fun to be around. If he had gone and only talked to her, tried to outdo him, and been petulant and a drag, her perception of him would have adjusted accordingly. By acting unthreatened by this other guy, by showing everyone that he was fun to be around and a decent, confident guy, he raised his stock with her in friendship, but also in attractiveness which showed in her later interactions with him.

 

So that's it, in my opinion. No big secret, no sure fire way to attact or make friends with everybody. Like and attraction are fluid perceptions, always changing, flowing and ebbing. If you know what other people are looking for, you can try to direct the tide. But this requires that you understand people! Other people just naturally flow into other people's wants which is why they can find friends and partners without thinking too hard about it.

 

Right now your criteria for a romantic partner is almost nothing at all. For some women, maybe a lot of women including me, that would actually take you down in the attractiveness scale. These are the options I see for you: wait for a woman who has insane sexual chemistry with you and have sex with her and see if you can forge a relationship from that, look for a woman who has low to no criteria for a for a friend or romantic partner, or has simple criteria you can mold yourself into like making lots of money or looking a certain way or working a certain job, or lastly do the hard work to improve the multitude of everyday things that most normal, everyday people are looking for. Luckily, just like likes and wants and perceptions are always changing, so too can you.

 

 

That's it. Good luck.

[Meeks7]

From your posts, this is what I think about where you are coming from. You are lonely. You are saddened and depressed. You were shy and awkward in your teenage and formative years and lost within your own internal world, and this has carried into your adult life. Now that you are an adult and still lonely and unfulfilled, you are looking for that one person who can make it all better, someone who will know you, approve of you, love you, and be your best friend. They will affirm for you that everything is ok, that you have worth. Right now, almost any female will do. When I frame your actions and reactions within this view, the things you do become understandable.

 

Great post, Pirouette! I tend to agree with everything you said. While he may claim he only posts his deepest thoughts because it's online and he doesn't share them publicly in real life, it's easy to see from his post history that he's simply a guy who has yet to grow up and mature. Despite being 30, his life experiences and mindset is still very much like an inconsistent teenager. One minute he's happy. The next he's destroying his game controllers out of frustration. One minute he's overwhelmed after speaking with his former crush, Danielle, and the next, he wants to make her cry after she "fails" to give him any attention.

 

He's hurting, that much is clear, but so is this: he's hurting HIMSELF. I'm not talking physically, I'm talking mentally. His "kick himself down" game is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Honestly, he's been way too comfortable in his rut that he just doesn't know any other way to live or react to situations.

 

I remember someone once asked him if he looked up to anyone, even people he didn't know, for qualities or traits that he admired. He said nobody. It says a lot to me. He just doesn't seem to care about anyone but himself. His perspective is incredibly limited and he has an inability to truly think and act selflessly. At nearly 31 years old, that is a major turn-off for the ladies. I don't know what it will take for him to finally grow up (for a lack of a better term), but I surmise he will continue to self-sabotage until he hits absolute rock bottom (i.e. drops out of college, flounders around without landing that full-time career job, etc.) Sad to say this too but the reality is the older he gets, the more difficult it will be for him. I know he likes the early 20s girls, but they just don't go for 31 year old guys unless they have a LOT more life experience to offer. I agree that it's never too late to change, but at certain points change does become a lot harder, and you will have to sacrifice preferences out of necessity (i.e. start considering women in their late 20s, etc.)

[somedude81]

I've spent a little time thinking about your situation, so I'm going to lay out my perspective for you. You can agree, disagree, ignore, reflect, dismiss, whatever. I do hope you take the time to read it otherwise I wasted all this brain energy and typing time!

 

From your posts, this is what I think about where you are coming from. You are lonely. You are saddened and depressed. You were shy and awkward in your teenage and formative years and lost within your own internal world, and this has carried into your adult life. Now that you are an adult and still lonely and unfulfilled, you are looking for that one person who can make it all better, someone who will know you, approve of you, love you, and be your best friend. They will affirm for you that everything is ok, that you have worth. Right now, almost any female will do. When I frame your actions and reactions within this view, the things you do become understandable.

You are very, very close.

 

The only thing that you are off about is the part where you said almost any female will do. As you said, I'm looking for that one person who can be my girlfriend and my best friend. Because of those criteria, the range of girls who can work is pretty narrow. It's basically limited to fun, cute, geeky girls, with busty being a plus. Which also happens to perfectly describe Danielle, the girl I was chasing for two years, whom I've written many times about on this forum. I don't know if I was in love with her, mainly because I agree with you, about what you said in a previous post

 

Let me tell you though, love without reciprocation, is not real love. You cannot possibly have a true, lasting love with these girls because they do not love you back in that sense. You have not lived with them and seen the best and worst parts of their character and had them look at yours and still chosen to love them and retained your attraction to them. You never got that far.

I feel that I got as close to love as possible with that girl based on the circumstances.

What you had with them was a strong like, and a strong attraction on your part. They also had a strong like, but without the stong attraction. Then, when they did something you did not like, the rejection, it wiped away all the good things that came before and made them into nothing. Your relationship with them was so fragile that it crumbled away. If they have decent self-esteem, they would be bewildered by such because their liking for you is rooted in a solid foundation of themselves and has several layers. It would not just disappear. Because you're liking of them does not have a solid base, was in fact tethered to nothing, it makes perfect sense to you that it just blew away as if it was never there.

This I didn't agree with.

 

Danielle had rejected me several times and I knew that she didn't like me how I liked her, but I liked her so much and greatly enjoyed her company that I just wanted to be with her. And yes, I was also foolish with the thought that she'd eventually come around, that I'd figure out a way to make her fall for me. Of course none of that happened, and we haven't spoken in over half a year, and probably never will again. I've been in a very deep depression ever since.

 

And so far, I haven't met anybody that could replace her, nor have I met any girls who would let me get half as close to them as I did with her.

 

My neighbor is somebody I knew before I met Danielle, that was before I moved to SoCal.

 

I'll address the rest of your post after I run some errands. I need to get out of my apartment.

[USMCHokie]

And so far, I haven't met anybody that could replace her, nor have I met any girls who would let me get half as close to them as I did with her.

 

Your goal should not be to find someone to "replace" her...

[Meeks7]

And so far, I haven't met any girls who would let me get half as close to them as I did with her.

 

Why do you think this is?

 

I thought you said you could make female friends like it was nothing? If so, then why have you struggled to advance beyond a certain acquaintance surface level with the girls you meet today?

 

How would you feel if you knew you would never meet another Danielle-type girl if you don't change some things up in your lifestyle?

[Pirouette]

You are very, very close.

 

The only thing that you are off about is the part where you said almost any female will do. As you said, I'm looking for that one person who can be my girlfriend and my best friend. Because of those criteria, the range of girls who can work is pretty narrow. It's basically limited to fun, cute, geeky girls, with busty being a plus. Which also happens to perfectly describe Danielle, the girl I was chasing for two years, whom I've written many times about on this forum. I don't know if I was in love with her, mainly because I agree with you, about what you said in a previous post

 

 

I feel that I got as close to love as possible with that girl based on the circumstances.

 

This I didn't agree with.

 

Danielle had rejected me several times and I knew that she didn't like me how I liked her, but I liked her so much and greatly enjoyed her company that I just wanted to be with her. And yes, I was also foolish with the thought that she'd eventually come around, that I'd figure out a way to make her fall for me. Of course none of that happened, and we haven't spoken in over half a year, and probably never will again. I've been in a very deep depression ever since.

 

And so far, I haven't met anybody that could replace her, nor have I met any girls who would let me get half as close to them as I did with her.

 

So your criteria are fun, cute, and geeky. That does not sound the least bit narrow at all. I could probably throw a rock into a crowd and hit five woman that fit that. Heck, even I fit that, a stranger on the internet. No, I'm not familiar with your Danielle story, but if that's the way you would describe her, I wonder how well you knew her at all. I'm asking you, so what if you met a fun, cute, geeky girl, but she was vain, or what about vapid, or a flake, or lazy, or a bigot. What was it about Danielle's character that you liked so much?

 

Give me a brief synopsis on how your relationship with Danielle ended and why it made you so depressed. You say you just wanted to be with her, but out of the other side of your mouth you say you were still waiting and hoping for her to come around into an attraction and a relationship with you. To me, it sounds like the relationship lasted as long as you still believed you could get what you wanted out of her.

 

If I start feeling an attraction for a man, but he indicates he does not feel the same for me, I pull the feelings back and let the idea go. If I still want to spend time with him as a friend, I do so. Infatuations can grow and continue, but that would be all on me, and it would be just that: an infatuation, something that exists only in my own mind and is not all that realistic.

 

I'll make it analagous to gambling. I go to the casino for a bit of fun, for a good time. I'm enjoying myself playing the games, putting bits of myself, the money, out there. I up the ante and start to lose, the money I put up isn't coming back at the game I'm currently playing. So I decrease my bets so I'm playing back at a level I enjoy, and I also take my money elsewhere, try my luck at other games that could pay off better. Or I could put up a huge bet, the entirety of my fortune up on that single game and when I invariably lose, I feel like I lost everything, that the odds are and always were against me.

[somedude81]

Why do you think this is?

 

I thought you said you could make female friends like it was nothing? If so, then why have you struggled to advance beyond a certain acquaintance surface level with the girls you meet today?

 

Because of this.

 

And so far, I haven't met anybody that could replace her,

It's simply not meeting anybody that could replace her and being depressed from not having her in my life, that I haven't put myself in situations where I could meet girls like her. So I really haven't met anybody that I wanted to go beyond the acquaintance level with and because of history, I've almost lost the hope that I could meet a girl and start dating her. Without that hope that I could succeed, it's hard to even try. I simply don't want to fail and get hurt again.

 

How would you feel if you knew you would never meet another Danielle-type girl if you don't change some things up in your lifestyle?

That's not a valid question.

 

I've been in similar situations with about 10 or so girls over the years with my current lifestyle. This is actually the first summer since I moved to where I am now, that I don't have a girl to hang out with. First summer was a girl I met the semester before in an on campus job. Second summer was a girl I met in summer school after Dani first rejected me in the spring. I had two or three dates with that girl. When the fall semester started, I reconnected with Dani and that lasted a little over a year, till November of last year. There were also a handful of "lesser" girls that I frequently talked to on campus, but I didn't try to put too much effort into because Dani was my main goal.

 

In other words, I know I can meet another Danielle type girl without having to change anything about my situation. But will she like me and want to be more than friends? Probably not. And I don't know if there is anything I can do to make that happen. The changes that I have to make, don't even feel remotely possible.

[Meeks7]

Because of this.

 

It's simply not meeting anybody that could replace her and being depressed from not having her in my life, that I haven't put myself in situations where I could meet girls like her. So I really haven't met anybody that I wanted to go beyond the acquaintance level with and because of history, I've almost lost the hope that I could meet a girl and start dating her. Without that hope that I could succeed, it's hard to even try.

 

I hope you at least understand that your own current life situation is largely SELF-IMPOSED, right? You are deliberately choosing how to live your life, and the way you are CHOOSING to live it now prevents you from moving forward. It seems as though instead of healing you are choosing to mope. You said it yourself here:

 

I haven't put myself in situations where I could meet girls like her. So I really haven't met anybody that I wanted to go beyond the acquaintance level with and because of history, I've almost lost the hope that I could meet a girl and start dating her

 

This is YOUR choice. A choice you CAN CHANGE at anytime, but you choose not to time after time. Because change is scary, let's face it. And like you said, you don't want to risk getting hurt.

 

I hope you at least understand you're the one imposing limits on yourself, not outside forces like God, girls, etc.

 

 

I simply don't want to fail and get hurt again.

 

That's life, pal. Lou Holtz once said

 

"10% of life is what happens to us and 90% is how we choose to react to it."

 

We all fall down. What matters is whether we choose to stay lying down, or do we get right back up.

 

Dani was my main goal.

 

I think that statement there says a lot.

 

In other words, I know I can meet another Danielle type girl without having to change anything about my situation. But will she like me and want to be more than friends? Probably not. And I don't know if there is anything I can do to make that happen. The changes that I have to make, don't even feel remotely possible.

 

What changes would you have to make, first of all?

 

Secondly, you COULD meet another girl without changing anything about your situation, but you admitted probably not she'll like you.

 

So why not TRY changing things about your situation, because you know you can't do ANY worse!

 

What you're saying is you're admitting your current life situation isn't too hot, but you refuse to change anything because you don't know if it will bring the change you desire. Well, you already know if you don't change anything in your situation, the same outcomes will result time after time. You don't know, however, if changing your situation might change your outcome. I rather try than continue sticking my hand on the hot stove -- something I know that does not help me.

[Meeks7]

Any thoughts, SomeDude on the above post ^ ?

[somedude81]

So your criteria are fun, cute, and geeky. That does not sound the least bit narrow at all. I could probably throw a rock into a crowd and hit five woman that fit that. Heck, even I fit that, a stranger on the internet. No, I'm not familiar with your Danielle story, but if that's the way you would describe her, I wonder how well you knew her at all. I'm asking you, so what if you met a fun, cute, geeky girl, but she was vain, or what about vapid, or a flake, or lazy, or a bigot. What was it about Danielle's character that you liked so much?

I liked that she had very similar interests and hobbies to myself, plus she was also goofy but intelligent, thoughtful, honest and she was also innocent.

 

Give me a brief synopsis on how your relationship with Danielle ended and why it made you so depressed.

On the last day we hung out we (on campus) had a couple of arguments about different things.

 

The biggest one was when I got involved in her school business when I had no place in doing so. She didn't appreciate me speaking for her to the adviser. When we left the office, she got pretty mad at me and I knew I screwed up. I was pretty embarrassed and we parted that day on bad terms.

 

A few days later, she texted me saying that we shouldn't hang out anymore. I asked her why and she said that we didn't get along. Knowing that was not a real answer I asked her to really tell me what was going on, and she refused to tell me anything more, saying that her reasons are her own. I told her that we should meet up and talk and she said it wasn't going to happen. I called her immature and afraid of conflict and then she never replied or responded to any contact from then on.

 

My guess was that overtime she was getting tired of me because our hangouts were far less frequent and she often used school as a reason why she couldn't meet up. Having the fight, not matter how small, probably put her over the edge.

 

You say you just wanted to be with her, but out of the other side of your mouth you say you were still waiting and hoping for her to come around into an attraction and a relationship with you. To me, it sounds like the relationship lasted as long as you still believed you could get what you wanted out of her.

I enjoyed her company and wanted her for a girlfriend. But yes, if there was some occurance that made me realize I would have no chance with her at all, I would have had to cut contact with her so I could move on. I also wanted it to be done in a way I could fully understand and accept.

 

For example, if we were hanging out, and I tried to kiss her, and she got mad and told me no and that there was no chance of that ever happening, I'd get mad, we'd have an argument. And with that, I'd completely accept that nothing would ever happen and I'd completely move on.

 

If I start feeling an attraction for a man, but he indicates he does not feel the same for me, I pull the feelings back and let the idea go. If I still want to spend time with him as a friend, I do so. Infatuations can grow and continue, but that would be all on me, and it would be just that: an infatuation, something that exists only in my own mind and is not all that realistic.

 

I'll make it analagous to gambling. I go to the casino for a bit of fun, for a good time. I'm enjoying myself playing the games, putting bits of myself, the money, out there. I up the ante and start to lose, the money I put up isn't coming back at the game I'm currently playing. So I decrease my bets so I'm playing back at a level I enjoy, and I also take my money elsewhere, try my luck at other games that could pay off better. Or I could put up a huge bet, the entirety of my fortune up on that single game and when I invariably lose, I feel like I lost everything, that the odds are and always were against me.

That is the rational reaction.

 

What you are leaving out is that desperation is not rational. I'm basically starving for female attention, so when I finally do get it, I want to hold on as if my life depended on it. I also want a GF more than anything in the world, and when I find a girl that I feel can fill that roll, pulling back the feelings and letting the idea go isn't really possible. It's even more difficult when the girl still lets me spend time with her, knowing that I like her. It's just disillusionaly looking for hope. Basically thinking, if she didn't like me at all, she wouldn't hang out with me. Of course I realize how screwed up that thinking is, and I don't want to put myself in that situation again.

[somedude81]

I hope you at least understand that your own current life situation is largely SELF-IMPOSED, right? You are deliberately choosing how to live your life, and the way you are CHOOSING to live it now prevents you from moving forward. It seems as though instead of healing you are choosing to mope. You said it yourself here:

I didn't chose to be depressed and feel that there is no hope. I am not choosing to have no energy.

 

This is YOUR choice. A choice you CAN CHANGE at anytime, but you choose not to time after time. Because change is scary, let's face it. And like you said, you don't want to risk getting hurt.

 

I hope you at least understand you're the one imposing limits on yourself, not outside forces like God, girls, etc.

Again, depression, lack of energy and motivation.

 

But still, when school starts again in September, I will be placing myself in those situations, and I'm sure I'll meet somebody I want to try with. I just need to be sure to use a different, and not so friendly approach.

 

 

 

I think that statement there says a lot.

What's the point of your statement?

 

I liked her more than I have ever liked anybody in my life. She was the one girl that I really felt I could spend my life with. I was always imagining taking her to family events and introducing her to everybody. Having her would also show everybody in my family that I am normal and that I could get a GF.

 

What changes would you have to make, first of all?

Somehow change my personality to become very outgoing, be smooth and always know the right things to say. Have a rock solid confidence.

 

None of those feel remotely possible.

Secondly, you COULD meet another girl without changing anything about your situation, but you admitted probably not she'll like you.

 

So why not TRY changing things about your situation, because you know you can't do ANY worse!

 

What you're saying is you're admitting your current life situation isn't too hot, but you refuse to change anything because you don't know if it will bring the change you desire. Well, you already know if you don't change anything in your situation, the same outcomes will result time after time. You don't know, however, if changing your situation might change your outcome. I rather try than continue sticking my hand on the hot stove -- something I know that does not help me.

Because I feel that it's simply not possible to change into what I need to be. That there is no hope and nothing I do will ever matter.

[Pirouette]

What you are leaving out is that desperation is not rational. I'm basically starving for female attention, so when I finally do get it, I want to hold on as if my life depended on it. I also want a GF more than anything in the world, and when I find a girl that I feel can fill that roll, pulling back the feelings and letting the idea go isn't really possible. It's even more difficult when the girl still lets me spend time with her, knowing that I like her. It's just disillusionaly looking for hope. Basically thinking, if she didn't like me at all, she wouldn't hang out with me. Of course I realize how screwed up that thinking is, and I don't want to put myself in that situation again.

 

My opinion is that it's not that she got tired of you personally, she got tired of the pressure from you to be more than a friend. She knew after time that you could not scale back your feelings, and that you could never be just friends on your part. She didn't want to be responsible for your suffering, and adding to the anxiety in your mind.

 

If she had gone and found herself a boyfriend in that time, would you have stopped speaking to her?

 

I understand your feelings of loneliness and desparation. I hope you understand how destructive and counterproductive they are though. Any healthy woman who is capable of having a healthy relationship with you and liking you truly for who you are, will be offput by your desperation and scared away by the singleminded intensity of your feelings knowing that they are not based in reality.

 

Have you thought of ways to cope with your desperation? To manage and decrease them? If you acknowledge that they are irrational, thereby showing you have some self-awareness, you need to take steps to counteract them or nothing will ever change for you.

[Pirouette]

I didn't chose to be depressed and feel that there is no hope. I am not choosing to have no energy.

 

Again, depression, lack of energy and motivation.

 

I liked her more than I have ever liked anybody in my life. She was the one girl that I really felt I could spend my life with. I was always imagining taking her to family events and introducing her to everybody. Having her would also show everybody in my family that I am normal and that I could get a GF.

 

Somehow change my personality to become very outgoing, be smooth and always know the right things to say. Have a rock solid confidence.

 

None of those feel remotely possible.

 

Because I feel that it's simply not possible to change into what I need to be. That there is no hope and nothing I do will ever matter.

 

You placed too much of your dreams on her. Based on your friendship with her, it was irrational to expect all that from her, and you should know that no one person can fix another person and make everything okay.

 

I think you are overwhelming yourself with thoughts of all the things you have to do to make yourself into the person you always wanted to be. That's what makes it seem impossible. You are imagining the successful, handsome, rich, happy person and it seems so far above where you are now that you can't even think of putting one foot in front of you and improving your life just that little bit.

 

Realize no one is perfect, no one's life is perfect. A lot of us find small happinesses where we can. We take comfort in everyday things.

 

This is quote that I found comforting.

 

"It's ok to head out for wonderful, but on the way to wonderful you're going to have to pass through all right. And when you get to all right, take a good look around and get used to it because that may be as far as you're going to go."

 

I have a perfectionist personality. I want everything to be the absolute best. I had to learn that I can take pride in small victories. I had to realize that "all right" truly does not equate to not good enough. Trying to be perfect was actually impeding me from being happy and becoming a better me.

 

Try and think of something small that can improve your life just that little bit.

[Meeks7]

What's the point of your statement?

 

My point is, you put Dani (and really, any girl who pays attention to you) on a pedestal. That is an issue in and of itself.

 

My guess was that overtime she was getting tired of me because our hangouts were far less frequent and she often used school as a reason why she couldn't meet up. Having the fight, not matter how small, probably put her over the edge.

 

I don't think the fight "put her over the edge." She was already over the edge before the fight happened. She was just looking for an exit plan. When the fight happened, it was her perfect "way out" of the friendship.

 

Sorry man. It sucks, but you need to let her go and move on. Also you need to learn how to balance your life better so GF GF GF isn't always #1, #2 and #3 on your mind. Scale back the intensity. I get the sense what you think is reality is often times different from how others see reality. You struggle to connect the dots and that misconception only adds to your frustration and feelings of hopelessness.

 

Bottom line, until you change your MINDSET, you can pretty much expect to stay right where you are in life, forever. Nothing's going to change, except you'll get older, and more depressed over time.

[somedude81]

Bottom line, until you change your MINDSET, you can pretty much expect to stay right where you are in life, forever. Nothing's going to change, except you'll get older, and more depressed over time.

And do you wonder why I think about suicide so often?

 

--------

 

So I got off of work a few minutes ago, and it's painfully clear to me now that I have no confidence when it comes to women and my brain just freezes when I want to talk to somebody. There were two girls at my work that I really want to connect with but I was just so scared of looking like a fool that I barely talked to any of them at all. It's just so frustrating and only makes me hate myself. I know I used to be better, but I think the depression has gotten worse and I just have no confidence now. Having a boss that's a total ass doesn't help, because I can't do anything right in his eyes and he only puts me down, which of course doesn't help my confidence either.

 

What bugs me so much, is that it would be so easy for me to be happy, all I need is the world to give me a fu*king break. But of course there is no way that's going to happen.

 

I just want to die.