How does the dating and sex thing actually work?

[Curtis24]

So is that it? The only way dating works is to ask out lots and lots of girls till one decides you're good enough to F ? Which basically means that my own preferences are nothing more than a hindrance.

 

 

Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

[Anela]

Do you think any sort of meeting like this might help? I was supposed to start attending them five years ago (actually, I first heard about them in 1997, when I *really* should have checked them out), but life intervened, and I couldn't make it. They have phone and online sessions, too, but I know that I need more interaction *in person*.

 

Toastmasters was also recommended to me years ago, for help with confidence and interacting with others.

 

I really wish that I'd tried them when I was younger than I am now. It may not have made life perfect, but at least I would have know that I tried. I held back for too long, and I regret it.

[Anela]

If women haven't been attracted to you in 30 years, then they probably never will.

 

From my initial impressions of you, screwing high class escorts on a regular basis is your best option. Just move to a place where it's legal.

 

I highly doubt that's true.

[somedude81]

Do you think any sort of meeting like this might help? I was supposed to start attending them five years ago (actually, I first heard about them in 1997, when I *really* should have checked them out), but life intervened, and I couldn't make it. They have phone and online sessions, too, but I know that I need more interaction *in person*.

 

Toastmasters was also recommended to me years ago, for help with confidence and interacting with others.

 

I really wish that I'd tried them when I was younger than I am now. It may not have made life perfect, but at least I would have know that I tried. I held back for too long, and I regret it.

My problem isn't really about interacting with others, it's interacting with girls in my age range, and really more specifically, girls that I could be attracted to.

 

If women haven't been attracted to you in 30 years, then they probably never will.

 

From my initial impressions of you, screwing high class escorts on a regular basis is your best option. Just move to a place where it's legal.

First that means I have to leave the United States.

 

And then, somehow make enough money so I can afford to get a decent hooker at least once a month.

[somedude81]

decent hooker is 200 $/hour. You can get much cheaper if you look for it. Just work a few hours overtime. It's what you would be doing anyways if you were getting married and trying to finance your mortgage.

 

Think of the opportunity cost. You are actually saving money. I bet most married guys don't even have much sex after 10 years or so. Half of guys who marry end up divorced and have to pay alimony/child support.

But if one had a girlfriend, they can theoretically have sex with her every day.

 

$200 a day x 30 days = $6,000 a month. That's a hell of a lot of money.

 

If one limited it to once a week, $200 x 4 = $800 which is what my rent is.

 

If one wanted a steady sex life, which I do, getting a GF is obviously a much better investment then renting.

[Meeks7]

My problem isn't really about interacting with others, it's interacting with girls in my age range, and really more specifically, girls that I could be attracted to.

 

 

Again, I'm not 100% sure your view of reality is actually, reality. You have no friends, female OR male, and you have your personal reasons why you keep to yourself/don't reach out to make friends.

 

Last I checked, someone like that I'd definitely classify as that person having a problem interacting with others.

 

Your mind is only telling you it's specifically girls because that's all your mind has trained itself to focus on. Girls. But you're brushing aside one of the fundamental issues here. You struggle to make (meaningful) connections with PEOPLE, not just girls, but both guys and ladies.

 

Your denying this only adds to your frustration.

 

I don't think you understand how much having a support group would really help you, especially since you've considered suicide off and on. Having people WALK by your side (figuratively speaking) and helping to see you through life's struggles would do a lot for a guy like you. Heck, we ALL need a support circle.

 

I know I used to be better, but I think the depression has gotten worse and I just have no confidence now. Having a boss that's a total ass doesn't help, because I can't do anything right in his eyes and he only puts me down, which of course doesn't help my confidence either.

 

This is another example (in addition to your being a loner) of what I'm seeing as you having difficulty interacting with people in general. Yes, some bosses can be jerks without fair cause, but usually you win them over or at least shut them up with your work ethic and overall job well done. I dunno why he's "picking" on you but this is yet another example I've read from your posts where you are... that guy on the bottom of the totem pole.

 

But you shouldn't be shocked. You are grossed out by your own self. How do you expect others to view you?! You ask for the world to give you a break, but before that happens you need to change your mentality that you're worthless, useless and nothing ever good will happen to you. I think you are simply a walking self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Meeks7]

SomeDude, here's a suggestion from Beth and me. You can take it or leave it -- whatever you choose. It's a little bit radical, and it will require some lifestyle changes, a lot of self-control and discipline, but we believe you can do it and we think the results may well benefit you.

 

Suggestion: Take the next 30 days and don't view LoveShack whatsoever. Don't log on, don't post, don't read any posts. Instead, use these next 30 days to write down your thoughts in a personal journal. Set some small goals you can accomplish. Chronicle your 30-day journal. Aim to attend at least 1 meetup. Switch things up!

 

I know it's hard to comprehend, but we think if you went LoveShack-free for 30 days you might experience something that would only benefit you, not harm you. I think from reading and posting on LS so often you are getting confused by the "many voices" here. You form perceptions about the real world through LoveShack, and that is not always healthy (or accurate). Take the 30 day challenge and see where you are physically, mentally and spiritually after 30 days. You might be shocked with the results. It certainly can't hurt to try something different.

 

 

EDIT: We understand that 30 days may seem very daunting. So maybe set a smaller goal: start with just a 7-day break from LoveShack. Keep a journal and write in it daily. See where that takes you. Worst comes to worst, after 7 days you think "well gee, that didn't help." Then you can come back here and post all about your 7 day hiatus.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Meeks7

[pharmmage]

I really don't get it at all.

 

 

I've learned that chasing a girl who has no interest in you is doomed to failure.

 

 

Please tell me there is something better.

 

 

No, you haven't. Stop obsessing over women.

[somedude81]

My opinion is that it's not that she got tired of you personally, she got tired of the pressure from you to be more than a friend. She knew after time that you could not scale back your feelings, and that you could never be just friends on your part. She didn't want to be responsible for your suffering, and adding to the anxiety in your mind.

While she had no idea of my suffering it does make sense that she would get tired of the pressure from me to be more than friends. That's basically what I meant before. I'm sure she finally realized that I was never going to back down.

 

If she had gone and found herself a boyfriend in that time, would you have stopped speaking to her?

Definitely. There is no way I was going to share her with another guy.

 

As much as I liked having her as a friend, I wanted her more as a GF.

 

And as I said before, I want a girl who can be my girlfriend and best friend, so that means I have to be able to be friends with her, just incase somebody was going to say that I never though of her as a friend.

 

I understand your feelings of loneliness and desparation. I hope you understand how destructive and counterproductive they are though. Any healthy woman who is capable of having a healthy relationship with you and liking you truly for who you are, will be offput by your desperation and scared away by the singleminded intensity of your feelings knowing that they are not based in reality.

I don't know what you are saying about them not being based in reality.

 

As for being offput and scared away, I just don't think that's ever going to happen because a girl will never find out.

 

The only thing that Dani knew was that I wanted a girlfriend and that I liked her. She had no idea how desperate I was, nothing about my depression, how much I really wanted her, my feelings about women etc. I keep all those things to myself and only share them online.

 

Have you thought of ways to cope with your desperation? To manage and decrease them? If you acknowledge that they are irrational, thereby showing you have some self-awareness, you need to take steps to counteract them or nothing will ever change for you.

Hookers? Drugs? Winning the lottery so I can afford drugs and hookers.

 

The only thing that I can think of that will make me less desperate is actually getting a girl. Which is something I have wanted and been unable to get since I was 13.

You placed too much of your dreams on her. Based on your friendship with her, it was irrational to expect all that from her, and you should know that no one person can fix another person and make everything okay.

Love isn't rational.

 

It wasn't about fixing me. Just having her for a GF would have done a lot.

 

I'm trying to go back and address the older posts. Takes me a while cause of the amount of thought required.

Edited July 9, 2012 by somedude81

[zengirl]

And do you wonder why I think about suicide so often?

 

Why is this so depressing to you? This:

 

Bottom line, until you change your MINDSET, you can pretty much expect to stay right where you are in life, forever. Nothing's going to change, except you'll get older, and more depressed over time.

 

(the bit you quoted to respond with this line above)

 

I mean, to me, that is such a freeing thought. You can change your life by changing your mindset. No, it may not happen right away. No, it may not go perfectly as you want it -- probably won't and certainly won't the first time you try to change your mindset. But things CAN change, if you change. What a powerful thought, that you have responsibility and power in your own life and can feel empowered by CHOOSING what kind of mindset you wish to have!

 

THAT is how you beat depression - by choosing to change your mentality and feeling empowered. (And diet change, medication, and CBT if there's an actual medical issue.)

[Pirouette]

While she had no idea of my suffering it does make sense that she would get tired of the pressure from me to be more than friends. That's basically what I meant before. I'm sure she finally realized that I was never going to back down.

 

Definitely. There is no way I was going to share her with another guy.

 

As much as I liked having her as a friend, I wanted her more as a GF.

 

And as I said before, I want a girl who can be my girlfriend and best friend, so that means I have to be able to be friends with her, just incase somebody was going to say that I never though of her as a friend.

 

I don't know what you are saying about them not being based in reality.

 

As for being offput and scared away, I just don't think that's ever going to happen because a girl will never find out.

 

Love isn't rational.

 

It wasn't about fixing me. Just having her for a GF would have done a lot.

 

When you want something a lot, and I believe she knew that you wanted her a lot simply because of the fact that you could not let it go and expressed it multiple times, then she can make that little mental jump to understanding that not getting something you really want can cause anxiety and suffering. Besides that, feelings and state of mind are expressed through all sorts of actions, body language, word choice, etc. If she wasn't able to read you in the slightest, then you are the world's best actor, or she completely lacked awareness.

 

I believe you when you say you like these women, and this one in particular, as a friend. What I'm saying is that you can't separate your friend feelings from your attraction, and that their rejection of your attraction therefore becomes a rejection of that and friendship too.

 

You remember what I said about real love? The intensity of your feelings is much too strong for a liking and attraction that has not had a chance to blossom into real, reciprocated love. That's what I mean by not being based in reality. You know those teenagers that are "in love" with a celebrity? They have posters plastered everywhere, they think about the star all the time and pretend they have a relationship with them, they camp out for days for the chance to see them, and cry tears of joy when they do. Their feelings are way out of sync with their reality. Most people, hopefully, grow out of this with time and experience. The potential of their feelings for a person are tempered by real life limitations.

 

So if I guy, who I know has few meaningful connections with others, becomes my acquaintance and I can see and sense the liking and attraction for me increase way too fast and to heights not supported by our interactions, then I will back off of friendship immediately, and likely cut then loose. A lot of initial feelings aren't rational, but that doesn't mean we can't direct and influence them with reasoning.

 

The lottery would be nice, and yeah, you could probably get some women with that. Not much of a plan though. And since you know the way you approach your life isn't working the way you want it, you should be aware that some sort of change is in order. If you are saying "I'm completely unhappy. Getting one thing will make me happy" then yes you are saying the one thing, the woman, will fix you. That is not realistic.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Pirouette

[jobaba]

SomeDude, here's a suggestion from Beth and me. You can take it or leave it -- whatever you choose. It's a little bit radical, and it will require some lifestyle changes, a lot of self-control and discipline, but we believe you can do it and we think the results may well benefit you.

 

Suggestion: Take the next 30 days and don't view LoveShack whatsoever. Don't log on, don't post, don't read any posts. Instead, use these next 30 days to write down your thoughts in a personal journal. Set some small goals you can accomplish. Chronicle your 30-day journal. Aim to attend at least 1 meetup. Switch things up!

 

I know it's hard to comprehend, but we think if you went LoveShack-free for 30 days you might experience something that would only benefit you, not harm you. I think from reading and posting on LS so often you are getting confused by the "many voices" here. You form perceptions about the real world through LoveShack, and that is not always healthy (or accurate). Take the 30 day challenge and see where you are physically, mentally and spiritually after 30 days. You might be shocked with the results. It certainly can't hurt to try something different.

 

 

EDIT: We understand that 30 days may seem very daunting. So maybe set a smaller goal: start with just a 7-day break from LoveShack. Keep a journal and write in it daily. See where that takes you. Worst comes to worst, after 7 days you think "well gee, that didn't help." Then you can come back here and post all about your 7 day hiatus.

 

Why don't you offer your help to someone here who will take the advice?

 

There's MANY other men here who can't get a woman.

[ThaWholigan]

Why don't you offer your help to someone here who will take the advice?

 

There's MANY other men here who can't get a woman.

Might as well. That place could go to someone who actually has the gumption to change.

[somedude81]

Why is this so depressing to you? This:

 

 

 

(the bit you quoted to respond with this line above)

 

I mean, to me, that is such a freeing thought. You can change your life by changing your mindset. No, it may not happen right away. No, it may not go perfectly as you want it -- probably won't and certainly won't the first time you try to change your mindset. But things CAN change, if you change. What a powerful thought, that you have responsibility and power in your own life and can feel empowered by CHOOSING what kind of mindset you wish to have!

 

THAT is how you beat depression - by choosing to change your mentality and feeling empowered. (And diet change, medication, and CBT if there's an actual medical issue.)

Because changing my mindset doesn't feel possible.

 

I went to therapy (including CBT) for several years and saw different therapists for that purpose, to change my mindset. My problem was with the way my life is. It's the same thing as giving a starving homeless man a new jacket. Sure a new jacket will help and he won't be cold, but he's still hungry. The fact of the matter is, I'm unhappy because I'm lonely. No amount of therapy can make that go away. And it's not the type of loneliness that is taken care of by having friends. I've had some friendships with guys over the years and I was still depressed, what I haven't had was a GF.

 

But one thing I do realize, is that I need to focus on being more outgoing and putting myself in situations where a change is possible. That is my primary goal for the next semester.

[Cracker Jack]

Is there a reason why the outgoing process can't start before the semester begins? Or are you only looking to do this in a school setting and nowhere else?

[somedude81]

When you want something a lot, and I believe she knew that you wanted her a lot simply because of the fact that you could not let it go and expressed it multiple times, then she can make that little mental jump to understanding that not getting something you really want can cause anxiety and suffering. Besides that, feelings and state of mind are expressed through all sorts of actions, body language, word choice, etc. If she wasn't able to read you in the slightest, then you are the world's best actor, or she completely lacked awareness.

 

 

Oh, I can understand that. So she very well could have known that I was "suffering" by not being able to be with her. Yeah that is a lot for somebody to deal with. She was a sweet girl and I'm sure she felt bad for me, but in the end it was just too much for her.

 

It sucks knowing that I never had a chance with her, just makes me feel like a total loser for trying so hard for so long.

 

I almost wish I never met her but then I realized that my life sucked so badly, that the time I spent with her were actually some of the highlights of my life. I guess that means that the good's haven't been overcome by the bad's yet and I don't regret it too much, for now.

 

Either way, the worst case scenario still happened, like I knew it would. Things always end up with me alone, moping about some girl who doesn't give a damn about me and probably hasn't thought about in months.

 

 

I believe you when you say you like these women, and this one in particular, as a friend. What I'm saying is that you can't separate your friend feelings from your attraction, and that their rejection of your attraction therefore becomes a rejection of that and friendship too.

You're right. When I become attracted to a girl who is a friend, those feelings basically merge, friend and attraction. Those end up being the girls I want for a GF. What's interesting, is that if I just have attraction for a girl, but no friend feelings, all I have is sexual desire and no interest in actually dating her and I can be fine interacting with her if she rejects me. Getting back to the GF mindset; once I start wanting somebody for a GF, I can never go back to just being friends. It's all or nothing, and so far it's been nothing every time.

 

You remember what I said about real love? The intensity of your feelings is much too strong for a liking and attraction that has not had a chance to blossom into real, reciprocated love. That's what I mean by not being based in reality. You know those teenagers that are "in love" with a celebrity? They have posters plastered everywhere, they think about the star all the time and pretend they have a relationship with them, they camp out for days for the chance to see them, and cry tears of joy when they do. Their feelings are way out of sync with their reality. Most people, hopefully, grow out of this with time and experience. The potential of their feelings for a person are tempered by real life limitations.

Meh, I don't buy the fantasy thing. The main key that determines if I fall for a girl is how much time I spend with her. That's the complete opposite of your celebrity example. My experiences are grounded in reality. I've spent time with them, I know who they are, what they like/don't like, what bothers them etc. And I admit that there is some fantasy mixed in as well. For example, my cousin got married a few months ago and I imagined what it would have been like to have Dani there as my date. That's obviously different from wanting Jessica Alba to accompany me.

 

As for love, I do think my feelings for her did stop short of love, because I knew they were not reciprocated and I was missing a whole 'nother layer. I think I'll just say I was one kiss away from falling in love with her. Having her liked me would have put me over the edge.

 

So if I guy, who I know has few meaningful connections with others, becomes my acquaintance and I can see and sense the liking and attraction for me increase way too fast and to heights not supported by our interactions, then I will back off of friendship immediately, and likely cut then loose. A lot of initial feelings aren't rational, but that doesn't mean we can't direct and influence them with reasoning.

How would you know that the guy has few meaningful connections with others?

 

We never talked about how many friends we have and what we do with them. I also didn't really talk about myself that much, mainly focused on her and what we could do next.

 

I also don't think that my liking for her was too fast. I met her in a Japanese class. After talking to her four days a week before and after class, plus sitting next to her and having her as my partner for a month, I asked her out on a date. Most people here would tell me that I was going slow.

 

We had a date which turned out bad, then went no contact for months. Ran into each other again, then often hung out for about a year and a half. That feels like enough time for strong feelings to develop.

 

The lottery would be nice, and yeah, you could probably get some women with that. Not much of a plan though. And since you know the way you approach your life isn't working the way you want it, you should be aware that some sort of change is in order. If you are saying "I'm completely unhappy. Getting one thing will make me happy" then yes you are saying the one thing, the woman, will fix you. That is not realistic.

And back to the thought of change. That's why I made this thread, I don't know how dating and sex is supposed to happen and what I should change to make it start to work.

 

I know I need to start to do things differently. And I realize that my past mindsets and choices were not helping. One thing I'm completely sure of, is that I cannot be friends with a girl I like. If I let a girl know I'm interested and she doesn't respond favorably, she's dead to me.

 

After that, I'm not really sure. I know I need to put myself out there more and try to be more sociable. But I don't know how that will lead to me getting a girl. I can join a bunch of clubs and groups on campus, but making friends with guys is a mystery. And I have no interest in making female friends.

[ThaWholigan]

After that, I'm not really sure. I know I need to put myself out there more and try to be more sociable. But I don't know how that will lead to me getting a girl. I can join a bunch of clubs and groups on campus, but making friends with guys is a mystery. And I have no interest in making female friends.

 

Watch Social Circle Mastery. I linked it to you weeks ago. If you want to know how to do any of that stuff and how it will lead to you getting a girl, watch it.

 

P.S. It's not PUA

[Mme. Chaucer]

Why is this so depressing to you? This:

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meeks7

Bottom line, until you change your MINDSET, you can pretty much expect to stay right where you are in life, forever. Nothing's going to change, except you'll get older, and more depressed over time.

 

Oh, come now. That's a rhetorical question, right? Of course it's depressing to SD. If there is ONE THING we know about our friend SD, it's that he is absolutely, positively, indubitably committed to NEVER doing a single thing differently in the interests of growth or change. Never. Not one.

 

The entire issue is that he is the way he is, he likes what he likes, he does what he does, and he "deserves" a girlfriend to magically appear and completely fulfill every aspect of his existence.

 

The requirements from him?

 

Zero. And he's sticking to it.

 

It would be pretty depressing to be in that situation for anyone.

 

Personally, I am truly grateful that I KNOW that if something is not working for me, or if something is lacking in my life, the ONLY thing to do is to change my approach, or my mind set, or my habits, or examine my prejudices.

 

I might not end up getting whatever it was that I was aiming for, but growth is its own reward, for me.

 

If I believed with religeous fervor that I needed to just sit here stewing in my own bitter juices, feeling entitled, angry, frustrated and thwarted because the things I felt I wanted and needed weren't showing up on my doorstep exactly as I'd imagined them - boy would I be depressed.

 

Wouldn't we all?

[Meeks7]

Why don't you offer your help to someone here who will take the advice?

 

There's MANY other men here who can't get a woman.

 

 

Haha, I beaten you to it. Already posted in other people's threads who need help.

 

The more SomeDude posts, the more evident it becomes that he's adamant on continuing his pity party. The thing is, none of us are getting hurt. He's the only one who is actually hurting, and he's self-inflicting the pain. Do I hope to hear that he changes and his luck turns around? Of course. Am I hurt if he doesn't? No, not particularly. (esp. since he is not a "real life friend"). However, he of course suffers if he stays the same, or gets worse (which not surprisingly is the case he admitted so himself)

 

SomeDude, buddy, you reap what you sow. Your negative "impossible" mindset will be the death of you. I'm sorry to say that, but it's true. I've never met someone SO UNWILLING to bend or consider other possible ideas. Every retort from you is "Meh, I don't believe ____" or "Whatever" or "I've tried it before, didn't help, so it couldn't help NOW. Logically... DUH" (which is extremely flawed as times change, people change and circumstances change).

 

You really are your own worst enemy.

 

We'll see you this time next year, same position (or worse), one year older. New thread but same old stories and same old excuses of why you can't change and why no breaks ever go your way. I think there's a common denominator here... hmmm, could it be YOU? No, that wouldn't make any sense. It must be God. It must be girls. It must be your parents. It must be the world's fault. Not your own. Nope, no chance of that....

[Pirouette]

Oh, I can understand that. So she very well could have known that I was "suffering" by not being able to be with her. Yeah that is a lot for somebody to deal with. She was a sweet girl and I'm sure she felt bad for me, but in the end it was just too much for her.

 

It sucks knowing that I never had a chance with her, just makes me feel like a total loser for trying so hard for so long.

 

I almost wish I never met her but then I realized that my life sucked so badly, that the time I spent with her were actually some of the highlights of my life. I guess that means that the good's haven't been overcome by the bad's yet and I don't regret it too much, for now.

 

Either way, the worst case scenario still happened, like I knew it would. Things always end up with me alone, moping about some girl who doesn't give a damn about me and probably hasn't thought about in months.

 

See, you say that she was sweet, so you know that she was a decent person, and that yes, coming at someone is a lot to put on a friend when they don't feel the same. And you say for now, the good memories from the situation outweighs the bad. Why would the bad one day outweigh the good? Nothing about the past will change. The only thing that will change is the way you look at it. The only thing that will change is you.

 

If she is a decent person, then she did genuinely give a damn about you. That wasn't fake. But yes, she likely has moved on from the situation and that is to be expected.

 

This is why it is good for you to try and understand what people were and are thinking, to, even if you don't come to the correct conclusion, put yourself in their shoes and think about where they are coming from. It can help you to understand how your own behaviour works in the grand scheme of things, and it will also help you to not demonize people, or conversely put them on a pedestal.

 

You're right. When I become attracted to a girl who is a friend, those feelings basically merge, friend and attraction. Those end up being the girls I want for a GF. What's interesting, is that if I just have attraction for a girl, but no friend feelings, all I have is sexual desire and no interest in actually dating her and I can be fine interacting with her if she rejects me. Getting back to the GF mindset; once I start wanting somebody for a GF, I can never go back to just being friends. It's all or nothing, and so far it's been nothing every time.

Have you ever made friends with a woman without developing romantic feelings for her? Yes, a friendly liking and a physical attraction are the first steps towards a romantic partnership, so I understand why they become difficult for you to deal with thereafter when you have little experience with such relationships.

 

Meh, I don't buy the fantasy thing. The main key that determines if I fall for a girl is how much time I spend with her. That's the complete opposite of your celebrity example. My experiences are grounded in reality. I've spent time with them, I know who they are, what they like/don't like, what bothers them etc. And I admit that there is some fantasy mixed in as well. For example, my cousin got married a few months ago and I imagined what it would have been like to have Dani there as my date. That's obviously different from wanting Jessica Alba to accompany me.

The celebrity example was an extreme version of what you are doing, just to make the point that you are extending the feelings beyond the scope of the situation. Yes you actually know them. Yes you like their real personality and spent time with them. You are however, missing the one crucial piece that needs to be there for real feelings grounded in reality to really grow, and that is for them to return your feeling and work on a relationship with you. You admit there is an element of fantasy to your friendship. The thing with fantasies, the ones you think about a great deal and grow in your own mind, is that they can engender real feelings in the person fantasizing despite not being real. The more you imagined being with them in ways that were not real, the stronger your feelings became.

 

As for love, I do think my feelings for her did stop short of love, because I knew they were not reciprocated and I was missing a whole 'nother layer. I think I'll just say I was one kiss away from falling in love with her. Having her liked me would have put me over the edge.

Real love doesn't happen with a kiss, or a single look, like in the fairy tales. That is infatuation. Real love takes time, it takes years of being together. Why do you think so many relationships break up after months or a year or two? The infatuation ends, and there was no real, lasting love.

 

How would you know that the guy has few meaningful connections with others?

 

We never talked about how many friends we have and what we do with them. I also didn't really talk about myself that much, mainly focused on her and what we could do next.

If I ask you what you did during the week or the weekend, or some such standard question, and you always answer "nothing much" and change the subject, pretty soon I'll know something is up. Never talking about yourself and never talking about your family or your friends, is a fairly clear sign that something is odd there. If you want a caring girl with healthy esteem, she's going to ask about you and your life and she's going to care about the answers!

 

I also don't think that my liking for her was too fast. We had a date which turned out bad, then went no contact for months. Ran into each other again, then often hung out for about a year and a half.

Your initial liking was not too fast. As I explained above, it just grew to be too much for the situation. So you had a date, which meant she gave you a chance. It went bad, which explains a loss of dating interest. I talked about our every interactions adding to and changing how other people perceive us. Your later interactions didn't cause her to change her attraction to you. That's something you can mull on yourself if you like, but I think there are other more important things for you to consider first.

 

And back to the thought of change. That's why I made this thread, I don't know how dating and sex is supposed to happen and what I should change to make it start to work.

 

I know I need to start to do things differently. And I realize that my past mindsets and choices were not helping. One thing I'm completely sure of, is that I cannot be friends with a girl I like. If I let a girl know I'm interested and she doesn't respond favorably, she's dead to me.

 

After that, I'm not really sure. I know I need to put myself out there more and try to be more sociable. But I don't know how that will lead to me getting a girl. I can join a bunch of clubs and groups on campus, but making friends with guys is a mystery. And I have no interest in making female friends.

I'm glad you're acknowledging the need for change. I think we're having some good dialogue here! I agree that you shouldn't be friends with a girl you also have romatic feelings for as it does bad things to your psyche, but no need to be so fatalistic and say they're dead to you! That's part of your depression talking, swinging from highs to lows, demonizing the people that reject you.

 

Maybe for a start, think about just friendships and how they can be good for you. Caring about a person without having romantic feelings present, and having them care about you in return is very fulfilling and comforting, as is the knowledge that short of something really bad, these friendships should not end, not the way most romantic relationships do. I think you would want that stability.

[Meeks7]

If I ask you what you did during the week or the weekend, or some such standard question, and you always answer "nothing much" and change the subject, pretty soon I'll know something is up. Never talking about yourself and never talking about your family or your friends, is a fairly clear sign that something is odd there. If you want a caring girl with healthy esteem, she's going to ask about you and your life and she's going to care about the answers!

 

 

BINGO! This is something he has not been able to understand, admit or grasp. She knew her for 2 years, and in all that time he avoided talking about himself/his life because, well, in his own words, not much was going on. No ambition, no excitement. So he threw all the focus on her and what they could do next. TWO YEARS! She was 20-21, he was 29-30. You are right, over time girls know (easily) what a guy is about and what he isn't. Every hangout or chat added to her attitudes about him, and over time, more negatives appeared. By the time she broke it up with him, it was a mere formality. She made up her mind long before that day of their final argument; she was simply looking for an "out." And she finally found it. But rest assured, it was coming one way or another, whether it was that day or the week after.

 

Maybe for a start, think about just friendships and how they can be good for you. Caring about a person without having romantic feelings present, and having them care about you in return is very fulfilling and comforting, as is the knowledge that short of something really bad, these friendships should not end, not the way most romantic relationships do. I think you would want that stability.

 

Unfortunately we've all been urging him down this friendship route. He doesn't want anything to do with it.

 

He is only shooting himself in the his own foot. He refuses to initiate and learn what it means to be a good PLATONIC friend, or to have guy friends.

[El Brujo]

I really don't get it at all.

 

After all these years of experience and hearing / reading about others, I've only learned what doesn't work.

 

IN ----->

 

OUT <-----

 

REPEAT IF NECESSARY

 

What's not to get???

[somedude81]

OK, something has been bugging me for a while now and I need to get it out.

 

Last month I was at my grandmothers house at a family gathering.

 

I was outside on the deck in the backyard with my father and an uncle.

 

The deck itself became the topic of conversation and my uncle said that he built it to get in good with Tina (his wife) before they were married. I think they were in their early 20's at the time.

 

I asked him for clarification and he explained that my aunt had no interest in him at all in the start. Which was surprising to me because he's a decent looking guy and about 6'2, she on the other hand is about 5'2.

 

Getting back, she had no interest in him and I was curious how they ended up getting married. He told me that he called Tina's mother, my grandmother, and told her that he liked Tina, but she had no interest in him and what he should do. (His family knew her family for a while, I forgot the actual connection ) He and Tina ended up getting married a year later, and are still married going on 20+ years. And it all happened because he asked her mother for help/advice, which turned around a seemingly hopeless situation.

 

I'll just say that I wish I heard that story a year ago when I could have actually tried something with my target.

[Lonely Ronin]

I'll just say that I wish I heard that story a year ago when I could have actually tried something with my target.

 

This sentence is the essence of your problem.

[somedude81]

This sentence is the essence of your problem.

My problem is bigger than that. But it is still a part of it. I was having issues with women long before I met that girl.