How does the dating and sex thing actually work?

[Meeks7]

It should be obvious what point I'm trying to make.

 

Sounds like more woe-is-me self-defeatist chatter

 

 

I strongly believe that if I had average luck, at least one of the 20+ girls I've asked out would have gone out with me

 

Or if you put in at least 50% the effort you do in the online world (i.e. posting on LS, reading up different threads, "researching" about women on Google, etc.) in your real personal life. Just imagine how much further along you would be if you simply complained less and simply did more experimenting in life (i.e. OLD, speed dating, singles groups, etc.)

[somedude81]

Yes, they do.

 

The individual woman does. She evaluates you and forms an opinion based on her own tastes which are shaped by her own experiences.

That's exactly what I had in mind.

 

And it's luck that her experiences have lead her to tastes that would match up with me.

 

Or bad luck that she's had negative experiences that would make her very insecure and not want to date.

 

It has to be one or the other. Do you believe in fate or do you believe in luck?

I've been using both interchangeably to describe the same thing. Something that is beyond my control.

 

Basically I can describe my experience with Dani as corrupted fate. She was almost everything I wanted in a woman. It was amazing how many check-boxes she checked. No other girl I liked came close. But her personal issues, insecurity, unwillingness to be in a relationship plus more screwed everything up. I basically met the perfect girl for me but she came with baggage that made it impossible. If it was never possible to date her, then I shouldn't have met her. If that wasn't bad enough, she reappeared in my life twice. Meaning, after the first parting she showed up in my life. Something happened then we parted again, and I had no intention nor desire to ever see her again. But that's exactly what happened roughly four months later. Whenever I was getting over her, fate pulled some strings and placed her in front of me like it was some kind of joke. If she shows up in one of my classes next month, I'll probably go insane. Thankfully there is very little chance of that happening since she should be doing a year abroad.

 

 

I see. The point you're trying to make is that you are waiting for the seemingly few women who would be attracted to the attributes that you possess to cross your path.

 

If that's all you want, then you should do as many people have suggested and ask out as many women as possible to increase your odds.

But there is my problem. I want to like the girl first. I'm looking for a girlfriend, not somebody to casually mess around with.

 

That is my folly, and I know I need to change that mindset. Being with a girl I have nothing in common with and don't have anything to talk about, should be better than being alone. As long as she has a decent sex drive things should be OK.

 

You need to stop thinking about luck as some sort of good or bad force that has chosen you and messes with your life. Luck is just chance, random and uncontrollable, and there's no point in worrying about it because you can't control it.

 

Worry about the things that you can control.

It's just my mentality. I have a high external locus of control. Meaning I don't feel I have much control over my life. I need to blame something other than myself for my troubles. BTW, I already basically hate myself, so putting even more blame on myself is not going to help.

Many people have told you to work on your skills and personal attributes. They tell you this because there are certain things that are almost universally considered attractive, and so if you possess them it automatically increases your odds of meeting a woman who will find you attractive.

 

Tell me, do you think you possess many characteristics that most women would be attracted to?

Pirouette can you tell me some characteristics that you are attracted to? Also, what are some universal traits?

And if you do, then do you believe that somehow the distribution of women around you has, through chance, been populated with mostly women who have the unlikely taste of not being attracted to your attributes?

 

Because yes, that would be bad luck.

 

I do believe that I have a few good traits that women should be attracted to. But that the negative things beyond my control over-rid them. So I have to get rid of the bad traits, or find somebody who doesn't care.

[Pirouette]

That's exactly what I had in mind.

 

And it's luck that her experiences have lead her to tastes that would match up with me.

 

Or bad luck that she's had negative experiences that would make her very insecure and not want to date.

 

If you want to take it that far, everything is luck, down to the single sperm and ovum that made you. So you should thank your lucky stars everyday for the miracle that is your life.

 

I've been using both interchangeably to describe the same thing. Something that is beyond my control.

 

Basically I can describe my experience with Dani as corrupted fate. She was almost everything I wanted in a woman. It was amazing how many check-boxes she checked. No other girl I liked came close. But her personal issues, insecurity, unwillingness to be in a relationship plus more screwed everything up. I basically met the perfect girl for me but she came with baggage that made it impossible. If it was never possible to date her, then I shouldn't have met her. If that wasn't bad enough, she reappeared in my life twice. Meaning, after the first parting she showed up in my life. Something happened then we parted again, and I had no intention nor desire to ever see her again. But that's exactly what happened roughly four months later. Whenever I was getting over her, fate pulled some strings and placed her in front of me like it was some kind of joke. If she shows up in one of my classes next month, I'll probably go insane. Thankfully there is very little chance of that happening since she should be doing a year abroad.

That is a contradiction in terms. Either everything is chance, and you must accept that life is random, and therefore any outcome is possible. Or that things are fated, that they follow a plan, and that you are exactly where you are supposed to be and things will happen the way they were meant to.

 

I don't want to spend too much time debating this, but I think you and I have a different idea of what probabilities mean and how they rule your life.

 

Yes, it was chance that you met someone who has the characteristics that you are attracted to in a partner. Going to a busy post-secondary institution, chances were high that you would. You have similar interests and go to the same school, so after you parted chances again were high that you would run into each other again.

 

If you wanted to ensure that you never saw her again and took extreme measures to prevent it, then yeah I might be persuaded that there was something extraordinary about your situation if somehow she ended up at the same research station in Antarctica as you.

 

But there is my problem. I want to like the girl first. I'm looking for a girlfriend, not somebody to casually mess around with.

What's wrong with going on that date and mutually discovering if you both can like each other? Nobody is saying you need to have casual sex. They're saying establish the romantic intent upfront and work from there to see if you are compatible. You're both free to change your minds at anytime.

 

That is my folly, and I know I need to change that mindset. Being with a girl I have nothing in common with and don't have anything to talk about, should be better than being alone. As long as she has a decent sex drive things should be OK.

You need to change the mindset that a romantic relationship can't develop from not knowing the person well initially.

 

It's unlikely that a woman will want to stay and progress with you past a first date if she has nothing in common with you and nothing to talk about. Unless she's dreadfully lonely and with little to recommend her.

 

It's just my mentality. I have a high external locus of control. Meaning I don't feel I have much control over my life. I need to blame something other than myself for my troubles. BTW, I already basically hate myself, so putting even more blame on myself is not going to help.

But what's the point in railing against some perceived external force that you have no hope of changing or influencing? What does that get you? Not even satisfaction. It just wastes your time and energy and leaves you feeling powerless.

 

I don't advocate that you blame and hate yourself. That isn't productive either. I'm saying you should be realistic about the things you can change, and you need to learn to accept the things that you cannot.

 

Pirouette can you tell me some characteristics that you are attracted to? Also, what are some universal traits?

Certainly. I will start with what I believe are almost universal traits. I say almost because someone, somewhere is sure to disagree.

 

Intelligence and wit. Passion. Humour. Generosity. Strength, of will and of body. Self-awareness. Social intelligence. Class. Power and mastery.

 

It should go without saying, though I will type it out anyway, that if one is exceptional at any of these traits, they are likely to be considered highly attractive. And if one possesses many negatives, or an extreme negative, that can easily outweigh a lot of positives.

 

For me personally, I hold intelligence and passion above all, which is why I listed them first.

 

I do believe that I have a few good traits that women should be attracted to. But that the negative things beyond my control over-rid them. So I have to get rid of the bad traits, or find somebody who doesn't care.

So do you accept that finding someone who doesn't care about your overriding negatves would be a low probability? Are you willing to simply wait for an opportunity that may never present itself within your vicinity?

 

Is that more aggreable to you than getting rid of the bad traits?

Edited August 7, 2012 by Pirouette

[Meeks7]

Passion. Generosity. Self-awareness. Social intelligence.

 

SomeDude, how would you assess yourself in these areas?

 

I agree with P. Those are some critical traits. Do you have them in abundance, or are you lacking in some of these areas? If you are lacking, what steps can you take to improve on these traits?

[Teknoe]

SD, having a wide diversity of friends does help. A lot of my friends I know were introduced to one another. Just today, I was chatting with a girl friend of mine, and she suggested I meet one of her girl friends. She said she can put in a good word for me

 

 

SD, that friend was ironically... E. In some ways, E and D are a lot alike. I didn't burn my bridges with E though, and while we don't talk often these days, whenever we do, we have some nice deep chats.

 

Most recently, yesterday, she tried to set me up with one of her single female friends!

 

In fact, I recommend reading this thread I wrote about my interactions wth E

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/platonic/friendship/252255-have-i-damaged-friendship-beyond-repair

 

Notice how I change and evolve from the first post (Nov. 2010) to the last (August 2012). You gotta change over time. If you stay the same, then you're not growing.

 

It's time to step out of your comfort zone and grow, SD. Yes, you will inevitably fall like everyone else. But, you will also be amazed at the progress you make. It just may not come in the big forms you hope for (i.e. GF), but every little step you take helps you to be a better person overall who one day CAN attract and keep a good GF

 

I can assure you sitting on the sidelines never will.

 

 

edit: wow, I'm going through the six pages in that Damage Friendship Beyond Repair thread, and it's crazy how similar it is to SD and D. But, notice my attitude throughout. I don't beat myself up, and maintain hope that everything happens for a reason and that while I can't see it now, it's for my benefit. SD, I highly recommend you reading particularly my posts in that thread. Maybe it'll give you a little insight... maybe not... but since you're online a lot anyway, you might as well read it.

 

Look at post #21, and then look at a female's reply in post #22. Not to brag, but that's what self-awareness is about, and even though E hurt me, I understood she didn't owe me an explanation for anything. And look how it turns out on page 6. E and I have reconnected as PLATONIC FRIENDS, and now she's trying to set me up with a good single friend of hers. That says, she respects me and my character... enough to recommend me to her good friend.

 

I feel honored, and humbled. Read the whole thread through for yourself, SD. Focus on my attitude. Even though things didn't go the way I wanted them to, I maintained hope, a realistic POV and my dignity.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Teknoe

[Teknoe]

SD, this is not going off topic. In fact, it's very similar and relevant to you, if you open up your mind to it. I'm sure others will understand my post here.

 

 

Watched TAKE ME HOME TONIGHT. Wow, it really spoke to me. In a lot of ways, I'm a bit like Topher Grace, OK, his character in the film (lol). Recent college grad whose biggest regret is not having enough balls to ask out the girl of his dreams in high school.

 

I was cheering for Topher's character, Matt Franklin.

 

He works at Suncoast Video and just... kind of taking it easy since graduation. I realize I have been doing the same thing. I shared in my last post that I've always been more focused (a better word would be fantasizing) on finding that one special partner in life, rather than focus on my career. One scene in the film really spoke to me

 

His dad told his son, "Just take a shot, son."

 

"But I don't know where to aim."

 

"Anywhere. Everywhere. Just shoot. If nothing else to hear the gun go off."

 

"Sorry dad that I'm a failure in life."

 

"No, you're not a failure. You're worst than that. You're someone who never tried to succeed."

 

My career isn't where I want it to be. I've let fear cripple me and get the worst of me, while everyone else around me have been landing full time gigs. I've been here, complacent and contently working part time, living in my own fantasy bubble frolicking with girl friends, being the shoulder to cry on, crush chasing... when I should be chasing my dream of making an impact in my chosen career field.

 

I hope to change that. Perhaps E came into my life as sort of a... final frontier, if you will. A wake up call of sorts.

 

I dunno, just 3 AM rambling.

 

I'm finally content NOT chasing girls. I've finally accepted a lot of things in my life I cannot control, like E "walking out of my life," how it didn't work out with A, or with my last crush just earlier this summer. I'm finally at peace being single, and not so worried about finding that one special lady to spend the rest of my life with.

 

Coz I know, FIRST, I got to get my life in motion. I just gotta say SCREW YOU to fear, and run with my shoes kicked off, full speed ahead. No stopping me now. If you believe in praying, if you could lift me up in prayer, to be focused, to be diligent and to just FIRE THE GUN, that would be most appreciated. Thank you.

 

It's a weird feeling. For the first time in my life, I'm happy to be single. Like, happy happy. I just know this isn't a time of my life to be chasing a girl. Maybe 2012. But not now. It feels good to be honest, to not be so girl-obsessed.

 

Anyway, TAKE ME HOME TONIGHT. Check it out, good stuff.

 

 

SD, that post was August 2011.

 

It's now August 2012. Let's look at me one year later, shall we?

 

One year later, yes, I'm still single (by choice) but I've worked on my career this past year, and have now gone from part time subbing to full time teaching.

 

It's not the end of the world to put the whole GF desires in a box and focus on self-improvement. You can always take the box out later when you're in a better place in life, mentally, physically and financially.

 

I know what it's like to be in your shoes. But I'm walking testimony... that if you focus your energies in the right place, you will be in a better place a year from now. Oh, and did I mention E is trying to set me up with her good female friend? Securing my first full time CAREER JOB hasn't hurt my stock at all... it shot it up 100 points.

 

Good luck, SD. There's nothing I want to see more on LS than to read your own self-improvement success story one year from now.

 

Get yourself off the sidelines, buddy, and GET INTO THE GAME OF LIFE!