How does the dating and sex thing actually work?

[somedude81]

Yup. Been there. The 'Oh so close, she wants me' gal. Some gals have a knack for leading you on and making you think they like you.

Why do they do that?

 

We were talking for a while actually trying to get everything worked out because I was at my grandma's house with formal clothes on and no change of clothes and were trying to figure out how to work everything out. And once all the details were set, oh yeah, my guy friend is going to be there, who happens to be an ex.

 

Why even invite me to spend the night if there is going to be another guy there? Maybe she wanted me to be some buffer between then? Who knows what the hell she was thinking.

 

No sweat. Kudos for going through with the motions.

 

Count it as a rejection and keep plugging.

For some reason it just feels worse then a rejection. It was building me up and excited, thinking how I can make it work. IMO the best thing she could have done when we were planning everything was tell me that sex was not an option and we were going to hang out. I would have declined her offer without feeling bad at all.

 

What really got me was getting my hopes up and then dashing them. It was a sick joke.

[Pirouette]

So how exactly did this conversation go? What was her body language like? How close were you sitting? What were her choice of words?

 

My question really, is was she flirting with you?

[todreaminblue]

I really don't get it at all.

 

After all these years of experience and hearing / reading about others, I've only learned what doesn't work.

 

I've learned that chasing a girl who has no interest in you is doomed to failure.

 

That it's basically impossible to actually make somebody like you. Either they do or they don't.

 

Odds are a woman isn't going to fall for a man like which men commonly do. So hoping she'll come around eventually is foolish.

 

If a woman isn't physically attracted to you, nothing will ever happen.

 

So with those out of the way, how are things supposed to work?

 

From what I gather, two people have to meet and both have to be attracted to each other. Though that's easier said then done since men are more easily 'impressed' then women are. I've also heard that women know in less then a minute if the guy has any possibility for dating/sex, though it may take much longer to get the 'no' out of her, which is just wasted time and energy from the guy. So it basically comes down to luck if the woman considers the guy attractive. And even then more things need to happen.

 

It almost feels like you're throwing dice if the woman is attracted to you or not. If you're a good looking guy or really know how to play the game, the two dice only need to add up to five. And for somebody like me, I need them to hit at least 10. Which hasn't happened yet and I'm turning 31 in three months

 

So is that it? The only way dating works is to ask out lots and lots of girls till one decides you're good enough to F ? Which basically means that my own preferences are nothing more than a hindrance.

 

Yeah, I'm sure if I wanted to, or actually didn't care at all, I could end up with a woman I have zero attraction to, have zero things in common with and can barely stand her personality; but because she liked me, it was the only that mattered.

 

Please tell me there is something better.

 

 

My last two partners I was friends with before a relationship started .....i was not sexually attracted to either .....i can find physical attraction in people who smile alot, who laugh readily who appear to be listening when i talk to them and give a crap about what i say.....sexual attraction for me comes when i know someones mind and that takes time.....i find one nighters to be mechanical so dont do them......i dont know if you class the friendship developing into intimacy better.....but it does debunk the nothing will ever happen if she doesnt find you attractive sexually from the start

[HiraBelder]

you're making it way harder than it is, but then again you're used to that....

 

i can tell in a glance whether i want to have sex with a girl or not. men are no different in that regard.

 

right...be yourself and care her then you get her.

[Els]

If the guy isn't still a boyfriend (not clear from your post), just GO and be social. You've got nothing to lose. If you think that any social interaction that doesn't have a chance of sex at the end of it is a waste of time, nothing is ever going to happen.

[somedude81]

So how exactly did this conversation go? What was her body language like? How close were you sitting? What were her choice of words?

 

My question really, is was she flirting with you?

I don't think she was flirting with me at my grandmothers house.

 

But when a girl invites you to spend the night at a place where we'd be alone and mentions that she want's to have some drinks, you're kind of already past flirting.

 

Also this was a girl that I've lived next to for about four years.

 

If the guy isn't still a boyfriend (not clear from your post), just GO and be social. You've got nothing to lose. If you think that any social interaction that doesn't have a chance of sex at the end of it is a waste of time, nothing is ever going to happen.

Go and be social?! " If you think that any social interaction that doesn't have a chance of sex at the end of it is a waste of time, nothing is ever going to happen."

 

This isn't the time for some lesson on social skills and making friends. This could have been the best opportunity to have sex that I've had in years. It's not just any social interaction. The vast majority of my social interactions, 99% of them don't have a chance of sex at the end.

 

It's bad enough that there would have been another guy there. But an ex of hers? There was just no point of me going. Being the third wheel does nothing for me. Either way, I'm sure they had sex last night and didn't need me to get in the way.

[SmileFace]

time, nothing is ever going to happen."

 

This isn't the time for some lesson on social skills and making friends. This could have been the best opportunity to have sex that I've had in years. It's not just any social interaction. The vast majority of my social interactions, 99% of them don't have a chance of sex at the end.

 

 

How exactly would you know that ?

 

She could have been inviting you to make him jealous. Who knows?

[somedude81]

How exactly would you know that ?

Honestly, I don't. But I can tell the difference between being invited to spend the night with a girl vs talking with a girl in the break-room at work.

 

I was mainly just annoyed at the fact that Elswyth thought it would be a good time to lecture me, "Just because you're not going to have sex at the end, doesn't mean that every social interaction is a waste of time." Then of course a few people liked her post, saying that they agree with her.

 

She could have been inviting you to make him jealous. Who knows?

That's a possibility and even more reason why I was better off not going.

 

I'm also wondering if he wasn't going to come over, if she would have invited me at all?

[jobaba]

I don't think she was flirting with me at my grandmothers house.

 

But when a girl invites you to spend the night at a place where we'd be alone and mentions that she want's to have some drinks, you're kind of already past flirting.

 

Also this was a girl that I've lived next to for about four years.

 

 

Go and be social?! " If you think that any social interaction that doesn't have a chance of sex at the end of it is a waste of time, nothing is ever going to happen."

 

This isn't the time for some lesson on social skills and making friends. This could have been the best opportunity to have sex that I've had in years. It's not just any social interaction. The vast majority of my social interactions, 99% of them don't have a chance of sex at the end.

 

It's bad enough that there would have been another guy there. But an ex of hers? There was just no point of me going. Being the third wheel does nothing for me. Either way, I'm sure they had sex last night and didn't need me to get in the way.

 

You don't get it yet.

 

Do you know how many times I had to go through situations like that before I finally got to make out with a woman?

 

Between that and flat out rejections, maybe close to a 100 spanning a few years.

 

That's what it takes. Keep going...

[Pirouette]

I don't think she was flirting with me at my grandmothers house.

 

But when a girl invites you to spend the night at a place where we'd be alone and mentions that she want's to have some drinks, you're kind of already past flirting.

 

Also this was a girl that I've lived next to for about four years.

 

 

Ok, and in all those four years when you were "hanging out", was there any flirtatiousness, was there any hint that there were feelings other than friendship?

 

If there wasn't anything at all of that sort, then frankly she is continue a four year history of being your friend, of hanging out with you, of enjoying your friendly company.

 

Other people approach their interactions with other people a lot differently than you do. I would say a good segment of the younger generation, of which I and you are a part of, do not approach every member of the opposite sex as first and foremost a dating and/or sex partner.

 

We view them as individuals, we gain first impressions, and we may or may not want to get to know them better as individuals. Of course, the idea of dating them/sleeping with them may cross the mind as a sort of "huh" moment that is not at all serious, not any overriding imperative to be sure.

 

Insane sexual chemistry could also occur where you have an absolute want to sleep with them right away, but that depends on that individual, the other individual, and I can say for me personally, this has never happened.

[ThaWholigan]

Wow, I am just really depressed.

 

I posted this in the off-topic thread a while ago but I just felt like re-posting as it makes more sense here.

 

----

So I'm at my hometown for a family event, was at my grandma's house. My neighbor who is my age comes over and we catch up. I haven't talked to her in years. We've hung out a few times but never actually did anything. I used to have a little crush on her. She still lives with her parents.

 

She then invites me to hang out with her, go to an outside concert and then she suggested that I can stay with her at a house that she is pet-sitting at. She mentioned having some drinks too.

 

So I'm thinking, "Woah, she wants to hang out and then go back to a house where we can be alone, have some drinks and stay the night? I could actually get laid tonight??"

 

We're finalizing plans, "Oh my friend is coming over too. He's like my first boyfriend ever and he's homeless now. So he's going to be staying the night, hope you don't mind another guy in the house."

 

And here I am posting this from my dad's house while I'm in my pajamas

---------

 

I know that odds are we weren't going to have sex. But it was still the closest thing to an opportunity I've had in years. Hell, it's not even the first time where having sex with her was a possibility. I can think of at least two other occasions where I probably could have sex with her, if I did something differently. Of course things like this have happened with other girls and I've been much closer to actually getting laid.

 

I really don't get it. How come stuff like this happens, and I only get teased by what could have been?

 

I know I'm getting way too worked up over nothing, but this is how I feel when I've had absolutely nothing and it actually seems like something could happen for once.

 

Having sex with her would be a complete absolute game changer confidence booster everythinger for me. And I did like her when I lived at my grandmothers house. She was the girl next door, and I always fantasized about having an ongoing thing with her.

 

I'm going back home tomorrow. Somehow I got to do something. It's retarded how I'm still in this situation. I know I'm not a bad guy and I have many good qualities. But things are just missing from my personality.

 

Having better luck wouldn't hurt either...

In 2008, I had just been kicked out of uni and I was not in a great place. I stayed at my fathers for some peace. I talked with my crush on the net occasionally and that was it. When I came back, it was my birthday. I called a bunch of my friends to see what was going on, there was nothing. I called her, and she said she wanted to see me. I said "well it's my birthday, why not today?". She was like "Sure, I'll cook". So I went to see her, went to her house and chilled there for the day. She cooked a little dinner for me, it was rather nice (she at least knew how to cook rice properly).

 

Here's the kick. When I first saw her, she told me her "friend" was going to be there. I found out later that he was dating her but that was another day. Nevertheless, he came there, and I honestly didn't care. I didn't know who he was, but when he turned up, I talked to him and he was cool. We were all having a great conversation in fact . It wasn't a big deal to me. We left her house together then I went home lol.

 

The interesting stuff happened after that night. The late night phonecalls, the frisky IM conversations, which culminated in the anti-climatic night where I infamously struck out by failing to have sex with her, but by then I knew she was dating the same guy I met at her house on my birthday, and so I didn't think it was a good idea. I still to this day don't really know how she felt about that night, but she wasn't too happy in the morning. If she was dating him then, why was she entertaining my company more and more?

 

The point is, that other guy doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things. Sometimes you will never know what comes of a situation. Experiences such as that give you greater insights into how to deal with certain interactions. The subtext going on between me and her that night and later nights shaped the way I viewed interactions for ever. She was/is the queen of subtext and mystique .

[Els]

 

Go and be social?! " If you think that any social interaction that doesn't have a chance of sex at the end of it is a waste of time, nothing is ever going to happen."

 

This isn't the time for some lesson on social skills and making friends. This could have been the best opportunity to have sex that I've had in years. It's not just any social interaction. The vast majority of my social interactions, 99% of them don't have a chance of sex at the end.

 

It's bad enough that there would have been another guy there. But an ex of hers? There was just no point of me going. Being the third wheel does nothing for me. Either way, I'm sure they had sex last night and didn't need me to get in the way.

 

Hey, it's your choice. Regardless, it's still a declined invitation. She invited you to come over to HER house - she could not have benefited from that in any way other than your company (as opposed to if she had asked if SHE could stay over), so clearly she wanted your company for some reason.

[one goal]

same thing here. I can never get a date:mad: They always reject me. Just like that girl in my class. I sent her a friend request too and she hasn't accepted it as of yet.

 

I'm destined for failure. Just like the St. Louis Blues are! Why do girls not like me? No matter how nice I am to them, they dislike me.

[Teknoe]

Whoa! One Goal posting in SD's thread?!?

 

The two of them should hang out

[somedude81]

You don't get it yet.

 

Do you know how many times I had to go through situations like that before I finally got to make out with a woman?

 

Between that and flat out rejections, maybe close to a 100 spanning a few years.

 

That's what it takes. Keep going...

That's pretty depressing.

 

When I look back but don't really focus, I realize that I've actually been close with more girls than I thought I have. And something always seems to go wrong. Also, it's been seven or eight years since I last kissed somebody.

Ok, and in all those four years when you were "hanging out", was there any flirtatiousness, was there any hint that there were feelings other than friendship?

There were. But this was a time when I was very shy and insecure of myself. When I look back, I realized that she dropped a lot of hints about wanting to have sex but I mainly stayed quiet like a wuss instead of bantering and joking around with her. One time was when we were walking back to our houses together she mentioned something about how her room was dirty and she didn't want to clean it. I asked her, "Ok, what reward do you want to get for cleaning your room?" And she replied, "Sex would be nice." I remember just being stunned and I don't think we said anything the rest of the walk. Now if I were in that situation I would have said something like, "You want to get laid eh? Well lets get that room clean."

 

I was almost always pretty nervous around her but I did feel some tension, which probably made it even worse for me.

If she was dating him then, why was she entertaining my company more and more?

That was an interesting story.

 

Girls really do some odd things.

 

I can't imagine a guy inviting a girl over and then having another girl come by. And then the hostility it would cause.

 

As for me, I was flying out of town the next day. Nothing could have happened and wouldn't be the foundation for anything.

 

Even if we didn't do anything, I still would have liked to spend some time with her, but I wasn't going to share her with a guy.

Hey, it's your choice. Regardless, it's still a declined invitation. She invited you to come over to HER house - she could not have benefited from that in any way other than your company (as opposed to if she had asked if SHE could stay over), so clearly she wanted your company for some reason.

We really don't know the reason why she invited me over.

 

She would have benefited from the other guy's and my company, a hell of a lot more than I would have from that experience.

Edited July 1, 2012 by somedude81

[zengirl]

I don't think she was flirting with me at my grandmothers house.

 

But when a girl invites you to spend the night at a place where we'd be alone and mentions that she want's to have some drinks, you're kind of already past flirting.

 

Really? When a girl who has been a longtime friend and doesn't see you as either sexual or threatening asks you to hang out somewhere she's house-sitting and spend the night because you'll have some drinks, I wouldn't think it'd be 'past' flirting really. Sure, if there'd been any flirting or romantic suggestion to the WAY she said things, I could see a natural conclusion that something might happen, but the act of having some drinks and sleeping in the same house (not bed so far as I can tell, just HOUSE) alone does not to me strongly imply anything, on it's own. Truly. I get why your head went there, but I think it's problematic that you assume that's 'past flirting' necessarily.

[Pirouette]

There were. But this was a time when I was very shy and insecure of myself. When I look back, I realized that she dropped a lot of hints about wanting to have sex but I mainly stayed quiet like a wuss instead of bantering and joking around with her. One time was when we were walking back to our houses together she mentioned something about how her room was dirty and she didn't want to clean it. I asked her, "Ok, what reward do you want to get for cleaning your room?" And she replied, "Sex would be nice." I remember just being stunned and I don't think we said anything the rest of the walk. Now if I were in that situation I would have said something like, "You want to get laid eh? Well lets get that room clean."

 

I was almost always pretty nervous around her but I did feel some tension, which probably made it even worse for me.

 

That was an interesting story.

 

Girls really do some odd things.

 

I can't imagine a guy inviting a girl over and then having another girl come by. And then the hostility it would cause.

 

As for me, I was flying out of town the next day. Nothing could have happened and wouldn't be the foundation for anything.

 

Even if we didn't do anything, I still would have liked to spend some time with her, but I wasn't going to share her with a guy.

 

We really don't know the reason why she invited me over.

 

She would have benefited from the other guy's and my company, a hell of a lot more than I would have from that experience.

 

From your perspective, there was some flirting. Now, let me ask you, would it make you angry, would it hurt you, if you knew that it was just banter, just light flirting, with no intention to actually move towards sex? Let's say, if you responded "Let's clean that room then!" and you accompanied her to her house, and kept her company while she cleaned, and then she said, "Want to go watch some TV?" or even, "Thanks for the company, see you tomorrow."

 

Would this mystify you? Would you feel cheated and infuriated?

[somedude81]

Really? When a girl who has been a longtime friend and doesn't see you as either sexual or threatening asks you to hang out somewhere she's house-sitting and spend the night because you'll have some drinks, I wouldn't think it'd be 'past' flirting really. Sure, if there'd been any flirting or romantic suggestion to the WAY she said things, I could see a natural conclusion that something might happen, but the act of having some drinks and sleeping in the same house (not bed so far as I can tell, just HOUSE) alone does not to me strongly imply anything, on it's own. Truly. I get why your head went there, but I think it's problematic that you assume that's 'past flirting' necessarily.

 

From your perspective, there was some flirting. Now, let me ask you, would it make you angry, would it hurt you, if you knew that it was just banter, just light flirting, with no intention to actually move towards sex? Let's say, if you responded "Let's clean that room then!" and you accompanied her to her house, and kept her company while she cleaned, and then she said, "Want to go watch some TV?" or even, "Thanks for the company, see you tomorrow."

 

Would this mystify you? Would you feel cheated and infuriated?

Zengirl made an interesting point. Maybe she's always saw me as neither sexual or threatening so she could joke about sex with me and thinks she can invite me to a situation like that and not worry about something happening. One thing I know for sure, is that me and her were alone for the night I would have tried something. If she refused, I would have left and probably never talk to her again.

 

As for the above scenario of keeping her company while she cleans or I helped her, I would have joked about sex, "So when are we getting dirty?" That would probably lead to a discussion about sex. If she said that she's never going to sleep with me I'd be disappointed but I'm not sure how I'd act.

 

It's a funny thing when a guy and a girl are friends and the guy wants to date/sleep with her. If they stop talking because she didn't want to go to the next level, it doesn't meant that the guy never thought of her as a friend. Yet that is a conclusion that many girls come to. And no, that never happened with me and this girl. I never told her that I like her or that I was interested, I thought she would figure it out. *Stupid SD*

[Pirouette]

Zengirl made an interesting point. Maybe she's always saw me as neither sexual or threatening so she could joke about sex with me and thinks she can invite me to a situation like that and not worry about something happening. One thing I know for sure, is that me and her were alone for the night I would have tried something. If she refused, I would have left and probably never talk to her again.

 

As for the above scenario of keeping her company while she cleans or I helped her, I would have joked about sex, "So when are we getting dirty?" That would probably lead to a discussion about sex. If she said that she's never going to sleep with me I'd be disappointed but I'm not sure how I'd act.

 

It's a funny thing when a guy and a girl are friends and the guy wants to date/sleep with her. If they stop talking because she didn't want to go to the next level, it doesn't meant that the guy never thought of her as a friend. Yet that is a conclusion that many girls come to. And no, that never happened with me and this girl. I never told her that I like her or that I was interested, I thought she would figure it out. *Stupid SD*

 

If you had said, "So when are we getting dirty?" then it would have made your interest clear, and it would have been up to her to accept, deny, or brush under the rug, and then it would be lobbed back to you. These are interactions between people everyday, all over the world. It is a journey and a sum of all parts to get to a certain point in a relationship, romantic or not.

 

And actually yes, if you were a friend to someone, and then wanted sex, and were denied, and then never talked to them ever again, it would frame that you were never a real friend to them at all. What if you asked your friend to borrow their car, and they said no, I don't want to lend it to you, or I don't trust you with it, and you never talked to them again. They would think you were never their friend and that you really only wanted one thing from them and nothing else in your history mattered to you.

 

Is the rejection of you in a romatic sense so destroying that it ruins everything good in a relationship?

[sid3]

If you had said, "So when are we getting dirty?" then it would have made your interest clear, and it would have been up to her to accept, deny, or brush under the rug, and then it would be lobbed back to you. These are interactions between people everyday, all over the world. It is a journey and a sum of all parts to get to a certain point in a relationship, romantic or not.

 

And actually yes, if you were a friend to someone, and then wanted sex, and were denied, and then never talked to them ever again, it would frame that you were never a real friend to them at all. What if you asked your friend to borrow their car, and they said no, I don't want to lend it to you, or I don't trust you with it, and you never talked to them again. They would think you were never their friend and that you really only wanted one thing from them and nothing else in your history mattered to you.

 

Is the rejection of you in a romatic sense so destroying that it ruins everything good in a relationship?

 

That would be my guess, rejection seems to be the main factor in crippling people.

[Pirouette]

That would be my guess, rejection seems to be the main factor in crippling people.

 

Rejection hurts without a doubt. I think there are very few people in the world who have never known the pain of rejection. I do believe it's important to have friends and family around you who like, love, and respect who you are as a person, that external validation to bolster you. And even more important at the core of it, to you yourself like, love, and respect who you are, so that you can on your own withstand the slings and arrows that are bound to be heading towards you for the rest of your life.

 

No one said it was easy. I think it's a hard fought battle for all of us, just some are equipped with better weaponry than others at the outset.

[sid3]

Rejection hurts without a doubt. I think there are very few people in the world who have never known the pain of rejection. I do believe it's important to have friends and family around you who like, love, and respect who you are as a person, that external validation to bolster you. And even more important at the core of it, to you yourself like, love, and respect who you are, so that you can on your own withstand the slings and arrows that are bound to be heading towards you for the rest of your life.

 

No one said it was easy. I think it's a hard fought battle for all of us, just some are equipped with better weaponry than others at the outset.

 

That's a very good point. It seems a lot of people try and grasp the whole having confidence, girls like bad boys stuff not realising that it really comes down to not fearing rejection. It's likely the most effective way one can self sabotage.

[Pirouette]

That's a very good point. It seems a lot of people try and grasp the whole having confidence, girls like bad boys stuff not realising that it really comes down to not fearing rejection. It's likely the most effective way one can self sabotage.

 

Confidence that does not have at the basis of it like, love, and respect for yourself, is not confidence at all. It is an illusion, it is swagger, it is play acting. If rejection and failure, even if you approached the situation with all the trappings of confidence, can destroy your serenity and sense of self, then you never had any real confidence at all.

 

And confidence doesn't mean that rejection won't hurt, or that you don't care about rejection. It just means that it won't shatter you, that after the blow you'll be able to pick yourself up and build yourself back up again. You are still you, with your own personality and worth intact. You are not merely a reflection of their rejection.

[sid3]

Confidence that does not have at the basis of it like, love, and respect for yourself, is not confidence at all. It is an illusion, it is swagger, it is play acting. If rejection and failure, even if you approached the situation with all the trappings of confidence, can destroy your serenity and sense of self, then you never had any real confidence at all.

 

And confidence doesn't mean that rejection won't hurt, or that you don't care about rejection. It just means that it won't shatter you, that after the blow you'll be able to pick yourself up and build yourself back up again. You are still you, with your own personality and worth intact. You are not merely a reflection of their rejection.

 

Exactly, rejection should have absolutely no impact on one's self. While there may be times when it may hurt, it should never wound, so to speak. Self worth is really what matters the most when it comes to handling rejection.

[somedude81]

Exactly, rejection should have absolutely no impact on one's self. While there may be times when it may hurt, it should never wound, so to speak. Self worth is really what matters the most when it comes to handling rejection.

It's much more complicated than that.

 

The main factors that affect the sting of the rejection is one's own self-esteem and how much they like/value/care about the person doing the rejecting.

 

Few things hurt more then getting rejected by a person I really like.

 

Also, I'm at the point where I desperately need to be accepted by somebody. All my life women have told me that I'm not good enough. It shouldn't be hard to guess how that has effected me.

Edited July 1, 2012 by somedude81