How does the dating and sex thing actually work?

[Els]

It isn't about bringing them up so much as the stuff you said, IMO. Like I said, it wasn't horrible or anything, just... I dunno. Strange. Awkward.

[zengirl]

Why are you guys blaming me when she was the one who brought up her breasts?

 

What did you expect me to say? "I'm sorry Danielle, you're breasts are an inappropriate topic of conversation and I will have no such part in it. Please keep such matters of discourse to yourself. Good day."

 

No, you could just say something socially appropriate. What you said was not socially appropriate, from my perspective. This example would be awkward as well.

 

First of all, I'm not sure it's always socially appropriate to ask why a woman doesn't wear more girly tops. A lot depends on the woman in question, reading her and the situation, an the way you ask it. It sounds to me like, by her answer, she was uncomfortable with even that question, and that's not really a normal thing guys ask. Truly.

 

Secondly, responding with, "Tie them down then" is just kind of bizarre and socially awkward. I'm SURE she was uncomfortable then and her response reflects that, though in a subtle way. Even without body language and tone. Instead, I think you were supposed to take her initial response to the shirt question as an opportunity to never speak any more about that topic - her choice of tops - and move along onto a different subject. That would be my sense.

 

Changing the subject by saying, "don't talk about your breasts" is weird. So is that whole conversation.

 

As to the sagging thing, you say 'somehow the topic came up.' How it came up is exactly essential to understanding the comments.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

First of all, I'm not sure it's always socially appropriate to ask why a woman doesn't wear more girly tops.

 

Especially when the guy "friend" is obviously preoccupied with the woman's boobage.

 

Ugh.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Somedude, you have a lot to learn

[fortyninethousand322]

The one thing that SD should learn, is that there really is no way of knowing whether a girl is into you or not. She might agree to hang out with you, might laugh at everything you say, act visibly flirtatious/touchy feely, may even sleep with you. But at the end of the day you have no idea how she feels about you. It's entirely a crapshoot. If you're feeling lucky go ahead and go with the flow and take some chances. Just don't bet the farm.

[somedude81]

Somedude, you have a lot to learn

Which is why I asked.

 

I obviously don't spend a lot of time with women and I'm trying to get feedback on my experiences.

 

What would be great ES is that instead of saying what you did you could actually give your input on the situation, the same goes SmileFace who liked your post.

 

Instead of telling me that I have a lot to learn, contribute!

 

Zengirl and Elswyth both thought it was "socially inappropriate" for me to ask a friend why she didn't wear more girly tops. The context being that she always wore loose fitting t-shirts and baggy jeans. Other than being at the mall to go look at shirts for myself, I don't remember how the topic of her choice of clothes came up.

 

Mme. Chaucer thinks I always talk about boobs no matter whom I'm with. But of course if a girl knew that I was always preoccupied with boobs, the last response she should ever give is because her boobs are too big. That would be adding fuel to the fire.

[ThaWholigan]

You've been given tons of advice and information in this thread and in your PM inbox. What more does anybody have to say to help you?

[zengirl]

But of course if a girl knew that I was always preoccupied with boobs, the last response she should ever give is because her boobs are too big. That would be adding fuel to the fire.

 

Disagree entirely. She would do so to gauge your reactions and confirm her suspicions, and potentially make a point about her discomfort.

[Meeks7]

You've been given tons of advice and information in this thread and in your PM inbox. What more does anybody have to say to help you?

 

 

Exactly. SomeDude, even after YEARS of you playing the same question and avoid the answers game here on LoveShack, you still have people trying to post things to give you a new perspective, and you still ask for more help.

 

At some point, people are going to throw their hands up and just laugh at the trainwreck. If this was your first couple months struggling, there would be more patience, understanding. But by now... come on... you have received more sound feedback and advice than anyone on LoveShack by far... yet you continually ignore it and exhibit no changes in your life.

 

At some point, people will give up on you and just shake their head.

 

You have been stuck in the same position for YEARS now, and there are no signs that you are going to pull yourself out anytime soon, is there...

[ThaWholigan]

Disagree entirely. She would do so to gauge your reactions and confirm her suspicions, and potentially make a point about her discomfort.

^^^

 

People will play social games just like this. This is why you have to improve your social skills and learn this.

[Cracker Jack]

You have to realize that people tried to approach your troubles from many different angles, only to be met with the usual "I don't want to do that" or "So that's what you mean. I'll look into it", then you end up right back at your starting point. If anything, you've had more than enough contribution. At this point, all it does is add to your mental masturbation.

 

So yeah, there's only but so much LS can do when it comes to informing you on how sex and dating works. You have to start trying things on your own. LS is great, but maybe what you seek isn't on here. Go try new things out there.

[somedude81]

You've been given tons of advice and information in this thread and in your PM inbox. What more does anybody have to say to help you?

Hey I downloaded the social circle mastery video, I'm going to watch it pretty soon.

 

Disagree entirely. She would do so to gauge your reactions and confirm her suspicions, and potentially make a point about her discomfort.

Would a girl really do that?

 

If she did, I think my response was fine because I just turned it into a joke. What I could have done was, "Oh really? How big are they?"

 

Hmm, I wonder if she would have told me.

[ThaWholigan]

Hey I downloaded the social circle mastery video, I'm going to watch it pretty soon.

 

Good. If there's anything else you need, or want to know about that vid, PM me and I will give you some extra tips that helped me interpret the info.

 

 

Would a girl really do that?

 

If she did, I think my response was fine because I just turned it into a joke. What I could have done was, "Oh really? How big are they?"

 

Hmm, I wonder if she would have told me.

 

A girl would really do that, for a variety of reasons. And your reply will tell her much more than you think it will. Your body language, your expression, the tone of your voice when you do reply, as well as the words you say. If a girl thinks that there is in-congruence, she will feel vindicated for testing you. Think of it as what the old school PUA's call a "sh*t test". For all the crap that PUA gets, they were on the money about sh*t tests, girls really do that. It's one of many social games.

 

If you want to be more aware, there are other wells of information there. I'd recommend you also download the alpha man convo audio program as well as the Love Systems Beyond Words thing I linked to you. Social Circle Mastery on it's own will help you a little, but it's one part. Once again, PM me if there's certain things you're finding difficult to interpret.

[zengirl]

Would a girl really do that?

 

Yes. Sometimes subconsciously. (Some men do things like that too, actually.) Sometimes consciously. I think you often misunderstand the complexity of social interaction and human nature.

 

If she did, I think my response was fine because I just turned it into a joke. What I could have done was, "Oh really? How big are they?"

 

Both what you did, and THAT are awkward. It's not like there's only one socially awkward choice or we're grading on a curve here.

 

Turning it into a joke, if her goal was to exhibit her discomfort at the original question and get you to deter further speech to that degree is hardly socially adept. Joking is not always the proper path. No path is always the proper path. This is why you actually have to learn how to socialize and not just what you can say in a given situation, because that situation will never occur again and nobody can Cyrano life for you.

 

Hmm, I wonder if she would have told me.

 

Telling you is awkward. The thing sometimes people don't understand when they call more subtle communications 'games' (I think sometimes they are games, but not always) is that direct communication is often socially inept in many circumstances. Women, in particular, are socialized to be a bit less direct, but even men are hardly direct most of the time. That is why so much of what a person says is in other things: tone, body language, etc. That is why socializing is a skill. If everyone just said precisely what they meant, absolutely clearly, there would be no skill in socializing or communication.

[Pirouette]

That bold part was something that had never crossed my mind. When I made that comment, I was strictly joking and wasn't actually thinking about seeing her in a revealing shirt. But maybe that's what she thought I meant? The thing about her being pressured as well and everything else you said, so there could have been more to it than I thought of.

 

She doesn't know that it didn't cross your mind. She'll form her opinion based on everything she knows about you, not just from this one incident, and not just from the other incidents involving breast talk. As to what she was actually thinking, well, we can only speculate at this point and we could be completely wrong.

 

Yes, the other two conversations about her breasts were brought up by her. Did that mean that only she was allowed to bring them up?

 

If I had spent some time with a girl and brought up my ass a few times, I wouldn't be offended if one day she started talking about it up in conversation.

 

It just means she brought it up in a way that she was comfortable with perhaps. I don't know if the other posters opinions are correct in that she felt awkward with your replies and was just trying to laugh it off.

 

With your ass comparison, say that you're mentioning it's size in a private conversation because it's really large and you find it awkward, and probably really embarassing though you don't come right out and say that. You play it off as a joke, but it makes you self-conscious. Say this happens twice where you say you can't wear tight pants because of your large butt, and that you would get rid of it if you could. Then one day, in public, right in front of a clerk, your friend shows you a pair of skinny jeans and says, "Hey try these, it will show off your huge ass." Do you see a difference? The other conversations you're able to control and direct so that they don't feel like you're being made fun of. The last comes out of nowhere and in front of a stranger and it feels like you're being put down.

 

 

As or the unsexy thing, sure talking about old people boobs isn't a very hot topic, but boobs are still boobs, they always will have a certain sexiness to them, especially coming from a young woman with a nice pair. Especially when the topic was goofy and not something serious. The bonding thing was a joke on my part. I didn't really know what else to say after she brought up that her breasts are too big so that she feels she can't wear more girly (tighter) shirts. There were a million other things she could have said, yet she's the one brought attention to her breasts, also don't forget the situation where she's out with a guy who she knows likes her and is attracted to her.

 

You're saying, "Hey she should know that I'm a man and that I find boobs sexy." I can just as easily say to you, "You should know that she's a woman and that she's had boobs most of her life and they aren't a big deal to her. She doesn't find them sexy so don't read into a mention of them, especially when she's complaining about them." See? It goes both ways.

 

Yeah boobs are always boobs, but this is a perfect example of how we all attach different meaning to the exact same things. I have boobs. I don't find them sexy at all. In the right situation, they can be made so just like anything can be, but most of the time they are just a nuisance to me.

 

And she had big boobs which she was probably made to feel self-conscious about from when she first started developing. They're well above average in size, so her mentioning them first is like pointing out the elephant in the room. Trust me, when you have big boobs, you'll have lived your whole life with guys, girls, men and women making comments about them right to your face, and probably plenty behind your back. Her complaints were ones you make to a friend. Self-deprecating and completely non-sexual. She's likely really self-conscious about them, which is why she won't wear girly shirts, so no she probably doesn't want you bringing them up in public and definitely not in what can be construed as a sexual way. If you're friendship had continued, you'd probably have to walk a fine line to not make her think you were making fun of her boobs and have her storm off.

 

As to what the other posters are saying, I dunno without context. I guess that's the same as can be said about my interpretation. I'm substituting my own experiences and those of my friends, where we can talk about boobs freely precisely because we do not find them sexual. If it did turn that way, we would shut down the conversation.

 

This is just one more example of how navigating these social waters can be so tricky and how everyone can come at the same situation from a completely different angle. It's good Somedude that you're trying to understand her POV, but know it changes with the person and each requires its own interpretation. You also need to be critical of your own actions and know why you said the things you did, why you feel the way you do about the situation. Then realize it's only applicable to you.

[iris219]

Somedude, I going to give you my take on your conversations with D and some constructive criticism:

 

If someone asked me why I don’t wear girly shirts, I would feel insulted. That is an attack on one’s femininity (or lack of) and style choices. Maybe I’m too sensitive, but if someone asked me why I don’t wear dresses like most girls, or why I don’t straighten my hair, or why I don’t insert a choice I make about my appearance, style, demeanor, etc., I would be hurt and offended (and pissed).

 

I’m sure not all of them were like this, but the conversations you describe here with D seem awkward and uncomfortable to me. After she said her chest was too large for certain tops, why did you say tie them down? What the heck does that mean?! You could have made a joke like, “I have that problem with pants” or numerous other responses. I know you have a sense of humor because you’re very funny on LS. You don’t have strong conversational skills and you don’t seem to be natural in your social interactions with others. This will hurt you when trying to talk to women, every time.

 

The good news: Social skills can be easily learned with practice, i.e., putting yourself in social situations.

 

The bad news: You refuse to do that.

[Lonely Ronin]

I’m sure not all of them were like this, but the conversations you describe here with D seem awkward and uncomfortable to me. After she said her chest was too large for certain tops, why did you say tie them down? What the heck does that mean?!

 

 

I think the issue is that at the gut level, SD doesn't understand some women hate the fact that they have a large chest. In broader terms he hasn't had enough social interactions to understand that while one person might love a trait they have, another person with the same trait might hate it.

[iris219]

I think the issue is that at the gut level, SD doesn't understand some women hate the fact that they have a large chest. In broader terms he hasn't had enough social interactions to understand that while one person might love a trait they have, another person with the same trait might hate it.

 

I agree. This goes back his lack of empathy, which he refuses to believe is a problem. In his mind, huge boobs are awesome, so he has difficulty doesn't understanding that not everyone feels the same way.

 

Somedude lives in Somedude world, and it’s so small that no one else can exist there, unless he sees how they would directly benefit him in a specific way. His lack of social interaction has made him selfish, self absorbed, and unable to see other's perspectives, which isn’t surprising at all.

 

Somedude, when I say you lack empathy, it's not because I think you're a bad person. You lack it partly because you haven't interacted with enough people to develop it (and you haven't interacted with a lot of people because of the lack of empathy, but I think being more empathic can be learned, even if one isn't naturally the most empathic). The more you are around people you care about and who care about you, the more likely you are to feel empathy.

[somedude81]

Yes. Sometimes subconsciously. (Some men do things like that too, actually.) Sometimes consciously. I think you often misunderstand the complexity of social interaction and human nature.

 

 

 

Both what you did, and THAT are awkward. It's not like there's only one socially awkward choice or we're grading on a curve here.

 

Turning it into a joke, if her goal was to exhibit her discomfort at the original question and get you to deter further speech to that degree is hardly socially adept. Joking is not always the proper path. No path is always the proper path. This is why you actually have to learn how to socialize and not just what you can say in a given situation, because that situation will never occur again and nobody can Cyrano life for you.

 

 

 

Telling you is awkward. The thing sometimes people don't understand when they call more subtle communications 'games' (I think sometimes they are games, but not always) is that direct communication is often socially inept in many circumstances. Women, in particular, are socialized to be a bit less direct, but even men are hardly direct most of the time. That is why so much of what a person says is in other things: tone, body language, etc. That is why socializing is a skill. If everyone just said precisely what they meant, absolutely clearly, there would be no skill in socializing or communication.

I don't think her intention at all was to test nor to exhibit discomfort in such a roundabout way.

 

 

With your ass comparison, say that you're mentioning it's size in a private conversation because it's really large and you find it awkward, and probably really embarassing though you don't come right out and say that. You play it off as a joke, but it makes you self-conscious. Say this happens twice where you say you can't wear tight pants because of your large butt, and that you would get rid of it if you could. Then one day, in public, right in front of a clerk, your friend shows you a pair of skinny jeans and says, "Hey try these, it will show off your huge ass." Do you see a difference? The other conversations you're able to control and direct so that they don't feel like you're being made fun of. The last comes out of nowhere and in front of a stranger and it feels like you're being put down.

 

And she had big boobs which she was probably made to feel self-conscious about from when she first started developing. They're well above average in size, so her mentioning them first is like pointing out the elephant in the room. Trust me, when you have big boobs, you'll have lived your whole life with guys, girls, men and women making comments about them right to your face, and probably plenty behind your back. Her complaints were ones you make to a friend. Self-deprecating and completely non-sexual. She's likely really self-conscious about them, which is why she won't wear girly shirts, so no she probably doesn't want you bringing them up in public and definitely not in what can be construed as a sexual way. If you're friendship had continued, you'd probably have to walk a fine line to not make her think you were making fun of her boobs and have her storm off.

Ah that's something I hadn't thought about at all. It never occurred to me that she could be self-conscious and embarrassed for having big boobs. That could explain why bringing them up in the context I did upset her.

 

And just to be clear, I would never make fun or her boobs or that of another woman. I'm well known for being a breast man on this forum. If I knew what to say that could make her proud of her assets I would have done so.

You're saying, "Hey she should know that I'm a man and that I find boobs sexy." I can just as easily say to you, "You should know that she's a woman and that she's had boobs most of her life and they aren't a big deal to her. She doesn't find them sexy so don't read into a mention of them, especially when she's complaining about them." See? It goes both ways.

 

Yeah boobs are always boobs, but this is a perfect example of how we all attach different meaning to the exact same things. I have boobs. I don't find them sexy at all. In the right situation, they can be made so just like anything can be, but most of the time they are just a nuisance to me.

But it's pretty much common knowledge that men like boobs. In western society, at least the US, the breasts are considered sexual and is the reason why women can't walk around topless, not even at public beaches.

 

Though I also understand your point as someone who has breasts they aren't always sexual to you. I also now realize that she didn't mean anything sexual about her chest being too big to wear girly shirts. To her it was just a matter of fact statement.

 

See, I'm learning

 

Somedude, I going to give you my take on your conversations with D and some constructive criticism:

 

If someone asked me why I don’t wear girly shirts, I would feel insulted. That is an attack on one’s femininity (or lack of) and style choices. Maybe I’m too sensitive, but if someone asked me why I don’t wear dresses like most girls, or why I don’t straighten my hair, or why I don’t insert a choice I make about my appearance, style, demeanor, etc., I would be hurt and offended (and pissed).

She'd be the first person to bring up that she's not feminine at all. Why she's not feminine is another mater entirely.

 

You'd really be offended if a guy asked you why you don't wear dresses?

I’m sure not all of them were like this, but the conversations you describe here with D seem awkward and uncomfortable to me. After she said her chest was too large for certain tops, why did you say tie them down? What the heck does that mean?!

So she could fit into the shirts. That's what some models do right? At the time it was a goofy logical response to an unusual situation. She knew exactly what I meant by it.

 

You could have made a joke like, “I have that problem with pants” or numerous other responses.

Heh, I didn't think of that. Honestly, I was a little caught off guard with her answer and just said the first thing that came to mind.

 

I agree. This goes back his lack of empathy, which he refuses to believe is a problem. In his mind, huge boobs are awesome, so he has difficulty doesn't understanding that not everyone feels the same way.

 

Somedude lives in Somedude world,

Somedude doesn't have boobs so he doesn't know anything about them at all. Expecting him to have any empathy about boobs beyond knowing that they'll probably hurt if they're hit is pointless.

 

BTW after reading Pirouette's reply I now understand that some women are self-conscious about them.

 

Somedude, when I say you lack empathy, it's not because I think you're a bad person. You lack it partly because you haven't interacted with enough people to develop it (and you haven't interacted with a lot of people because of the lack of empathy, but I think being more empathic can be learned, even if one isn't naturally the most empathic). The more you are around people you care about and who care about you, the more likely you are to feel empathy.

It's not so much about interaction but actually being told and having something explained to me.

 

I knew Dani for almost two years and during that time I never thought that she felt embarrassed for having large breasts. We never talked about it, so how was I supposed to know? None of the girls I have ever hung out with, talked about breasts and I don't have any sisters, and of course I've never had a GF either.

[zengirl]

Somedude, when I say you lack empathy, it's not because I think you're a bad person. You lack it partly because you haven't interacted with enough people to develop it (and you haven't interacted with a lot of people because of the lack of empathy, but I think being more empathic can be learned, even if one isn't naturally the most empathic). The more you are around people you care about and who care about you, the more likely you are to feel empathy.

 

Agree entirely. Empathy is a skill that can be learned.

 

She'd be the first person to bring up that she's not feminine at all.

 

People often bring up things they are self-conscious about. You bring up your height all the time, but if someone else commented on your shortness, you may feel slighted, depending on how it was said and what was said. People generally have a habit of bringing up things they are self-conscious about FIRST as a defense mechanism.

 

I knew Dani for almost two years and during that time I never thought that she felt embarrassed for having large breasts. We never talked about it, so how was I supposed to know? None of the girls I have ever hung out with, talked about breasts and I don't have any sisters, and of course I've never had a GF either.

 

I've never known her and only read snippets of quotes, and I know that it's a very strong possibility she felt embarrassment and discomfort about her large breasts. And that's not just because I'm a woman too. I can read similar things about men.

 

You WOULD know more things like this, more easily, if you developed your social skills, particularly empathy. That is why we suggest such things. The notion that you 'can't' know such things is flawed - you could, if you developed the skill.

[Pirouette]

Ah that's something I hadn't thought about at all. It never occurred to me that she could be self-conscious and embarrassed for having big boobs. That could explain why bringing them up in the context I did upset her.

 

And just to be clear, I would never make fun or her boobs or that of another woman. I'm well known for being a breast man on this forum. If I knew what to say that could make her proud of her assets I would have done so.

 

I'm sure you turned this last encounter over in your mind penty of times, and you were never able to come up with a scenrario from her POV that made sense?

 

It's good that you wouldn't knowingly make fun of someone's boobs and deliberately make them feel bad, but as the your situation demonstrated, it happens sometimes without your intent. When you become close to someone and learn to read them, you understand what their weak points are and how to avoid them. You also understand where you can support them and razz them and built the sort of rapport that makes people want to be around you.

 

But it's pretty much common knowledge that men like boobs. In western society, at least the US, the breasts are considered sexual and is the reason why women can't walk around topless, not even at public beaches.

 

And in your prudish America, where one side of sex is titillation, the other side is often shame.

 

Though I also understand your point as someone who has breasts they aren't always sexual to you. I also now realize that she didn't mean anything sexual about her chest being too big to wear girly shirts. To her it was just a matter of fact statement.

 

See, I'm learning

 

And indeed I'm glad you're trying. Yes certain body parts and subjects are sexual, but you always have to consider the context is which they are being discussed. You look at tone, body language, the setting and the way they're being spoken about. Nothing sexy about breast and testicular cancer is there? Or erectile dysfuction? What about a woman breast feeding on a public bench?

 

Somedude doesn't have boobs so he doesn't know anything about them at all. Expecting him to have any empathy about boobs beyond knowing that they'll probably hurt if they're hit is pointless. BTW after reading Pirouette's reply I now understand that some women are self-conscious about them.

 

It's not about just boobs. It could be anything in the world really. You need to be able to take the information that you do know about someone and use your imagination to connect the dots between their background, their actions, and their words, and also how the things you say and do might be received by them as shaped by their experiences.

 

As a joke, would you jump out around the corner at someone you know has been mugged and beaten? Would you brag about some new purchases to someone who has a really low paying job and struggles to make ends meet?

 

How would you feel about a friend who talked all the time about how awesome it is being tall? Or how easy it is for him to get women, and how great it is?

 

It's not so much about interaction but actually being told and having something explained to me.

 

The problem with that is that most people will not tell you what you did wrong and explain why. They'll just stop interacting with you, either by storming off if they're really offended, or quietly fading away. Usually the first time you do something off, they may say nothing to be polite. Then if it happens more and more, they just back away from you.

 

You need to be observant. Watch how body language and conversations shift. If you notice things starting to become awkward, remember what you said, what they said, and analyze why. If you put your foot in it clearly, apologize sincerely and explain that you didn't know you were offending someone and ask for an explanation why. I think people will respond well to sincerety and a lack of defensiveness.

 

I knew Dani for almost two years and during that time I never thought that she felt embarrassed for having large breasts. We never talked about it, so how was I supposed to know? None of the girls I have ever hung out with, talked about breasts and I don't have any sisters, and of course I've never had a GF either.

 

Your first clue was that everything she said about them was negative. Your second clue was that she didn't want to wear anything that drew attention to them. That is enough I think to form the idea that she doesn't like them to some degree.

 

These are the kind of judgments that people make about others all the time. Every time people interact with you, they take in what you say, and don't say, what you do and don't do, and exactly how it came about and they make judgments about you in that instant. People on this forum have formed an impression of you, going only by the words you choose to type, right or wrong.

 

You should think about whether you've done the same about the members you interact with the most.

 

You might think this is a bit out there, but watch more good movies that are dramas and read more literary fiction and really pay attention. They'll enrich your mind and also highlight all the things that everyone here is always telling you to look for in other people. You'll be able to get into a someone's head without any pressure, and everything written and shown is of importance to understanding the character or else it wouldn't have been included by the author. I think it's worth a shot.

[Meeks7]

I knew Dani for almost two years.

 

There's a difference between "knowing someone" for two years versus KNOW KNOWING them. Based on your posts, I don't think you knew her nearly half as well as your mind would like to believe.

 

For example, you keep claiming how much you guys have in common. But it all seems very surface-y items, like video game taste, cartoon taste, etc.

 

If I were to ask you deeper questions about her, you probably wouldn't answer them accurately.

 

 

I don't think her intention at all was to test nor to exhibit discomfort in such a roundabout way.

 

I find it highly amusing for a guy who claims he has no idea how the dating game works, or how females in general work, or how to read other people, that you can make claims in situations like this and act as though it was what really happened.

 

See the problem?

 

You claim admittedly several times you have no idea how to read women, you lack social skills and there are a lot of cues you miss that most people understand. Yet you also try to claim you know how Dani reacted or what she meant by her reactions in a way that paints you in the best possible light.

 

I really think you have no clue and are just deceiving yourself by trying to paint the best possible picture of you as a real life person.

 

Face it, you don't know Dani's intent and you never did.

[Els]

Somedude, I going to give you my take on your conversations with D and some constructive criticism:

 

If someone asked me why I don’t wear girly shirts, I would feel insulted. That is an attack on one’s femininity (or lack of) and style choices. Maybe I’m too sensitive, but if someone asked me why I don’t wear dresses like most girls, or why I don’t straighten my hair, or why I don’t insert a choice I make about my appearance, style, demeanor, etc., I would be hurt and offended (and pissed).

 

Well, personally, I wouldn't be hurt and offended, but it definitely makes me less likely to be attracted to the guy who said them. And apparently that is what SD was trying to accomplish with D.

 

SD, the thing about social skills is that nobody can teach them to you. We can all give you pointers here - and we are, by telling you about what we feel is inappropriate. But in the end it comes down to practice. There isn't any shortcut. You can't learn to ride a bike by reading about it and watching videos, you can't play an instrument by getting pointers. Same thing here. Practice is not always easy - believe me, I dislike many social situations as well but sometimes I just put myself out there because I know I need practice.

[somedude81]

If I were to ask you deeper questions about her, you probably wouldn't answer them accurately.

Try me. Ask something.

[Meeks7]

Try me. Ask something.

 

1. What does she look for in a man? What qualities does she find most attractive? What qualities repel her the most?

 

2. What was her worst and best high school memory?

 

3. What was her worst and best childhood memory?

 

4. What has been her biggest life regret thus far?

 

5. What has been her greatest life moment so far?

 

6. Describe Dani in a full paragraph. Who is she? What makes her tick?