How does the dating and sex thing actually work?

[betterdeal]

What do you want from a woman?

[somedude81]

Listen to what I and other have told you time and time again. You control your own future. You don't need to be given a chance, you need to make them. You need to put yourself into a position to meet people (not just women), and you're not doing it. You need to go out to coffee shops, the gym, social gatherings, a friends party, happy hour, whatever and meet and interact with people.

I have joined sports teams both coed and all guys, I have joined and been involved with campus clubs, I have tried to be friends and make plans with guys I met doing group projects at school, I talk to lots of guys at work and I got to the gym. Does it still seem like I am not putting myself in position to meet people?

 

Here's the thing, just being around people doesn't make somebody want to be your friend. And when I actively tired to make friends with guys and hang out with them, they were always too busy so I eventually stopped trying.

I know this is going to come of as blunt and kind of rude, but your life sounds depressing & boring. From what I can tell, your life revolves around school, work, video games, & lamenting on LS about not having a gf. No well adjusted woman wants to be in a relationship with a guy like that, as you would suck the life out of them. The word needy is the one that comes up the most often in this type of situation.

Why would my life being depressing and boring, which it is, suck the life out of a girl? I'm not going to complain to her.

 

Also I wouldn't need to spend all my time with her either. BTW does anybody know on average how often couples see each other if they are living separately? Is it once a week or less frequent then that?

 

 

When you're getting out and doing stuff with friends & by yourself, you will have interesting life experiences. Life experiences leads to story telling & comradery amongst people. That in turns leads to people being able to relate to you. Over times this has a snow ball effect and leads to more friends, more life experiences, more stories to tell, and a better quality of life overall.

Hmm, I had no idea story telling was so important. I never really liked talking about myself.

 

By doing the above, you will have lived a happy fulfilling life. By living your life, you will have made chances to meet a woman. Additionally you will be able to relate to her on a multitude of levels when you do meet a woman that shows mutual attraction.

What does relate to her on a multitude of levels mean?

I think this is good advice.

 

But I also believe SD truly needs a small victory.

 

I remember being on here many, many months ago after getting rejected by yet another woman I had fallen for, and my confidence was low in the dumps.

 

I was asking everybody for advice, including you. I still have the advice you gave me cut and pasted into a word doc somewhere.

 

Since then, I went gung ho and was able to snag a GF for several months. My confidence has gone up so much since then. I feel like I can give advice, even though it might be sh@t advice.

 

People don't quite understand how low your confidence is from dealing with 30 years of rejection and being unwanted. That doesn't happen to most people. I'll be honest. When I first started posting here, I wasn't sure if SD was a real guy.

 

He needs that little victory. How to go about getting it is a means to an end.

So Teknoe asks why I "like" jobaba's posts, the reason is simple, he understands what I'm going through because he's been there himself.

[somedude81]

What do you want from a woman?

In really simple terms, a friend I can sleep with.

 

I don't know much about relationships beyond that.

 

I just want a girl I can have sex with, play some video games, go for a bike ride on the beach trail, go to some event, and be able to introduce her to my family as my girlfriend.

[Teknoe]

So Teknoe asks why I "like" jobaba's posts, the reason is simple, he understands what I'm going through because he's been there himself.

 

Many of us have had experiences like you and Jobaba. We're not players or ultra-smooth cats ourselves, you know. I have had plenty of downs with women, too.

 

The difference is, Jobaba doesn't post in a way as to challenge you, but ONLY to encourage you. I'm all for encouragement, but you also need to be challenged to look beyond the surface and get to the root of your issues. You obviously like encouragement, as long as it doesn't come with some hard-hitting questions. If you're going to start threads on a message board like this with the frequency that you do, then be prepared for a wide spectrum of replies. It's the nature of the beast.

 

Let's be honest: what are you doing CURRENTLY in any arena of life, that is propelling you forward?

 

I don't want to hear about the past and how you used to be in co-ed sporting groups. Let's talk about the present. What are you, SD, doing TODAY that is helping you to build positive momentum going forward?

[ThaWholigan]

I have joined sports teams both coed and all guys, I have joined and been involved with campus clubs, I have tried to be friends and make plans with guys I met doing group projects at school, I talk to lots of guys at work and I got to the gym. Does it still seem like I am not putting myself in position to meet people?

 

Here's the thing, just being around people doesn't make somebody want to be your friend. And when I actively tired to make friends with guys and hang out with them, they were always too busy so I eventually stopped trying.

 

OK, so you've at least put yourself in that position. That's good. It is probably a bit difficult, it was for me when I first came to college. I had my one friend, and that was it. Then I went to another college where I knew nobody. By the end, I had a social circle. I didn't hang out with them too much outside of college, until some of them came to Uni with me.

 

I get involved with things that involved them. If they were recording, I would sit in the studio and talk music and other stuff (football usually helped me break the ice). When in class, I would ask questions and participate with the others. Admittedly, I was a bit of a class clown after I left school, cracking jokes, playing the keyboard while the lecturers were talking, and generally being a little clownish occasionally. It helped that I had a big voice and large frame, so I was hard to ignore.

 

Why would my life being depressing and boring, which it is, suck the life out of a girl? I'm not going to complain to her.

 

That you needed to ask this is a little puzzling. Whether you complain to her or not, nobody wants to be around someone who's life is depressing and boring - unless they already have an emotional investment in that person, or they themselves also have a boring, depressing life.

 

 

Hmm, I had no idea story telling was so important. I never really liked talking about myself.

 

What do you like talking about with people? How do you interact with them? That may shed light on why it has been difficult to make friends or such things.

[Meeks7]

Hmm, I had no idea story telling was so important. I never really liked talking about myself.

 

You don't have to be a GREAT storyteller or anything but YES, take it from me, a girl loves a guy who CAN tell a decent story from time to time. It's a good skill to have.

 

I like Teknoe's idea of looking beyond the surface (i.e. your fixation to have a girlfriend) to get to the root of the issues. Read this again

 

I never really liked talking about myself.

 

Park here and ask yourself why? Because that's an important question to give some thought to.

 

I can tell you from personal experience, being in this relationship with Beth, it's so important to be able to relate and communicate. From what I've gathered, and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, but it seems in the past all your interactions with women you have focused mainly on asking questions about them, or focusing on things to do together (i.e. beach, video games, etc.) But when the topic of yourself comes up, you dislike it and try to switch topics quickly.

 

Is that accurate?

 

If so, you need to ask yourself why.

 

Is it possible that you are afraid of opening yourself up?

 

Is it possible that you feel embarrassed or inadequate about who you are, thus not like talking about yourself?

 

etc.

 

So many good questions you can ask yourself, and try to understand this issue better.

 

It's one thing to say "Oh I just don't like talking about myself" and then moving on. It's quite another to actually look deep in the mirror and ask yourself "Well, why am I this way?" and "Is there anything I can do to change this, or do I simply have to make peace with it?"

 

It's what my therapist in the past has suggested to me, and I find it works. You gotta address key issues here, or you'll just be running around with your head cut off like a chicken. Believe me, that's no fun.

[ThaWholigan]

You don't have to be a GREAT storyteller or anything but YES, take it from me, a girl loves a guy who CAN tell a decent story from time to time. It's a good skill to have.

 

I like Teknoe's idea of looking beyond the surface (i.e. your fixation to have a girlfriend) to get to the root of the issues. Read this again

 

 

 

Park here and ask yourself why? Because that's an important question to give some thought to.

 

I can tell you from personal experience, being in this relationship with Beth, it's so important to be able to relate and communicate. From what I've gathered, and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, but it seems in the past all your interactions with women you have focused mainly on asking questions about them, or focusing on things to do together (i.e. beach, video games, etc.) But when the topic of yourself comes up, you dislike it and try to switch topics quickly.

 

Is that accurate?

 

If so, you need to ask yourself why.

 

Is it possible that you are afraid of opening yourself up?

 

Is it possible that you feel embarrassed or inadequate about who you are, thus not like talking about yourself?

 

etc.

 

So many good questions you can ask yourself, and try to understand this issue better.

 

It's one thing to say "Oh I just don't like talking about myself" and then moving on. It's quite another to actually look deep in the mirror and ask yourself "Well, why am I this way?" and "Is there anything I can do to change this, or do I simply have to make peace with it?"

 

It's what my therapist in the past has suggested to me, and I find it works. You gotta address key issues here, or you'll just be running around with your head cut off like a chicken. Believe me, that's no fun.

For the record, I love talking about myself . ThaWholigan is one of my favorite subjects . I have so many stories to tell, and I was an awkward introvert for many years.....

[betterdeal]

In really simple terms, a friend I can sleep with.

 

I don't know much about relationships beyond that.

 

I just want a girl I can have sex with, play some video games, go for a bike ride on the beach trail, go to some event, and be able to introduce her to my family as my girlfriend.

 

Sounds reasonable. Plenty of older people have told me their husband / wife is their best friend.

 

What are you afraid of?

[Meeks7]

For the record, I love talking about myself . ThaWholigan is one of my favorite subjects . I have so many stories to tell, and I was an awkward introvert for many years.....

 

Haha I hear ya. I love talking about Meeks7 myself. The key thing is BALANCE! Make sure you don't always talk about yourself, because girls hate that, too. Before I met Beth, I once had a girl tell me that I talked too much about myself and that it annoyed her, lol. LESSON LEARNED!

 

Moderation as always is the key to a healthy life...

[Lonely Ronin]

I have joined sports teams both coed and all guys, I have joined and been involved with campus clubs, I have tried to be friends and make plans with guys I met doing group projects at school, I talk to lots of guys at work and I got to the gym. Does it still seem like I am not putting myself in position to meet people?

How many teams are you on or clubs are you involved in today? when was the last time you went to the library or coffee shop to work on homework? When was the last time you did something with a friend, and what was it?

 

Here's the thing, just being around people doesn't make somebody want to be your friend.

if they like your personality and you actually interact with them it does. I guarantee you being grumpy smurf off in the corner doesn't.

 

And when I actively tired to make friends with guys and hang out with them, they were always too busy so I eventually stopped trying.

This is probably your biggest problem. This didn't work, so I'm not going to do it anymore, that didn't either so I'll avoid that. If someone doesn't want to be your friend, you don't stop trying to make friends, you find someone else to be friends with.

 

Why would my life being depressing and boring, which it is, suck the life out of a girl? I'm not going to complain to her.

What do you not understand about not being able to hide who you are from someone your in or want to get into a relationship with? You can't be the happy, talkative, funny SD one moment, and the depressed anti-social SD another.

Very few people can do this, and the ones that can can't control it, and have something you don't want (Multiple personality disorder).

 

Also I wouldn't need to spend all my time with her either.

what normally happens with people like you, is they overwhelm the person they are seeing, because you are only really happy when that person is around. So you will push to see them all the time, and be all over them when you do see them.

Think children swarming dad when he gets home from work. It's sweet and joyful in moderation, but eventually dads going to have a bad day and is going to be like "jesus just let me get in the door and have a moment to myself".

 

 

BTW does anybody know on average how often couples see each other if they are living separately? Is it once a week or less frequent then that?

 

Depends on the couple and the point in the relationship. In short it's not relevant to this discussion.

 

 

Hmm, I had no idea story telling was so important. I never really liked talking about myself.

Your not just talking about yourself. You might tell friend B a story about friend A because something came up in a conversation. You might tell an embarrassing story about Friend A who happens to be sitting next to you because they have been giving you a hard time all night. You might be like "this one time at band camp..." to try and make someone who feels down laugh.

 

 

What does relate to her on a multitude of levels mean?

You really don't know what I mean?

 

 

 

 

So Teknoe asks why I "like" jobaba's posts, the reason is simple, he understands what I'm going through because he's been there himself.

Everyone's on this planet has been through what you and jobaba have been through. The only difference is how and when they got out of it.

[veggirl]

I don't think you understand where Meeks, Teknoe, etc are coming from. Those guys have invested probably hundreds of hours into typing long, well thought-out posts to SD in which they bare their own souls and volunteer personal information and help. All of that is not done for their benefit. They are already happy with their lives and Meeks already has a LT gf whom he is deeply in love with. Sure, I'm sure some of their posts could have been worded better, but they are just so trapped in the healer/empathizer role that they are getting frustrated with how they are putting in so much effort to help someone who isn't putting in any effort at all himself.

 

It's not fair to say SD puts in NO effort. He may not go about things the way LS tells him to, but he does put forth some effort in his own way. He has made lists of all the clubs / activities he has joined. No one EVER acknowledges that. No advice is tailored to him, to the person he IS. No one suggests how to work with what he has. It's basically "change this, that, that, and also that."

 

SD's improvement does not benefit anyone else in this thread except himself. Yet those people are putting in all that time and effort helping him at his request even when sometimes all they get for their effort is a snub. I really don't think you understand what you're talking about, when you have spent far less time in his threads than the two of them (and countless others) have.

 

As someone who's spent lots of time in his threads, I leave when I feel frustrated with his responses, and I don't go back to that thread. If posters are very hurt he doesn't follow their advice step by step, I think that'd be a good thing for them to do as well.

 

I disagree that SD is not empathetic. He is frustrated yeah, obviously, but from back and forths *I've* had with him, I don't find him lacking in empathy.

 

Anyway, beyond all that , SD I am with ya on hating talking about myself. I will listen to other peoples stories and stuff, but am not big on talking about myself, so I don't think that's such a bad thing.

[Lonely Ronin]

It's not fair to say SD puts in NO effort. He may not go about things the way LS tells him to, but he does put forth some effort in his own way. He has made lists of all the clubs / activities he has joined. No one EVER acknowledges that.

He is usually using past tense though. in my opinion doing something a handful of times does not count as trying.

[veggirl]

He is usually using past tense though. in my opinion doing something a handful of times does not count as trying.

 

He can clarify but pretty sure he spent a semester in those clubs and things. I don't think it was like "I went to japanese club twice and no one fell in love with me wtf!" type of thing.

[Meeks7]

He can clarify but pretty sure he spent a semester in those clubs and things. I don't think it was like "I went to japanese club twice and no one fell in love with me wtf!" type of thing.

 

Quantity doesn't necessarily equal quality though. Just pointing that out. I could say for example that I spent a semester at Club X. But what did I do during that semester? Did I just show up, and then went home? Or did I actually attempt to interact with other club members and find that level of connection?

 

It's impossible to say since we were not there to see. And SomeDude can always claim "I try, I really did" but not cite any specific examples. When people do ask him to cite specific examples, he refuses to elaborate. We're basically at the mercy of his own interpretations of his own life experiences, which based on post history I just don't feel he has a good grasp on what actually happened. He has his view on what happened, but there seems to be a discrepancy with what actually happened.

 

We, like Tha mentioned, can only infer from the nature of his posts and the things that constantly fly over his head.

 

And like Ronin asked, what is he doing TODAY? Is he in any clubs presently? The past is the past. And maybe those clubs he was in was YEARS ago. SomeDude can clarify if he'd like to.

[somedude81]

Why does it matter if the things I've done are in the past or not? People tell me that I need to do X and then I show that I've already done X. It makes no difference if I'm doing X now or not. I listed the things I've done to show that I haven't been sitting at my house the entire time, I have been out doing things and putting myself into situations where I can meet people.

 

Just to clarify, I did co-ed softball for one semester and a one semester of flag football. I was in the Japanese club for about a year and a half (three semesters) and in the salsa club for two semesters. And of course I talked to people when I was there and I made a few aquatineces.

 

I have no idea how going to the coffee shop and doing homework is going to get me friends.

 

What do you not understand about not being able to hide who you are from someone your in or want to get into a relationship with? You can't be the happy, talkative, funny SD one moment, and the depressed anti-social SD another.

You are assuming that I'll still be depressed when I have a girlfriend.

what normally happens with people like you, is they overwhelm the person they are seeing, because you are only really happy when that person is around. So you will push to see them all the time, and be all over them when you do see them.

Think children swarming dad when he gets home from work. It's sweet and joyful in moderation, but eventually dads going to have a bad day and is going to be like "jesus just let me get in the door and have a moment to myself".

Depends on the couple and the point in the relationship. In short it's not relevant to this discussion.

Of course it's relevant. You say I'll be needy by wanting to spend too much time with her, and yet you tell me that how much time most couples spend together isn't relevant

 

When I still knew Dani, I wanted to hang out with her one day about every other week. Once a week would would have been perfect. Of course, I know that we weren't dating.

 

So once again, when a couple is dating, or GF/BF, how often do they see each other. Anybody who has an idea is welcome to give me and answer.

Everyone's on this planet has been through what you and jobaba have been through. The only difference is how and when they got out of it.

Only a few people have talked about having low self-confidence and being depressed because they couldn't get a Gf, and even rarer are the guys who managed to get a GF and "magically" felt better.

 

Sounds reasonable. Plenty of older people have told me their husband / wife is their best friend.

 

What are you afraid of?

When did I say I was afraid?

[Cracker Jack]

What are you currently doing with yourself to enhance your chances with women?

[somedude81]

What are you currently doing with yourself to enhance your chances with women?

Read post 669.

[Cracker Jack]

I did. And I take it to mean you're currently doing nothing, but that you did do something at some point. Okay.

[ThaWholigan]

You downloaded SCM, that was also a good start - hopefully you actually watched it.

 

Did you download any of the other links? I'm fairly certain they will help you a lot more with the hands-on stuff you may need help with.

[ThaWholigan]

Sorry I'm only loosely following this thread, what's SCM? And what are the other links? Never hurts to learn more.

I privately messaged him some torrents containing links to help him with stuff like advanced socializing, body language, seduction and other stuff. I wanted to send some fitness/nutrition stuff too, but I'll get to that another time.

 

SCM stands for Social Circle Mastery. Was a program by Love Systems.

[Meeks7]

Why does it matter if the things I've done are in the past or not? People tell me that I need to do X and then I show that I've already done X. It makes no difference if I'm doing X now or not. I listed the things I've done to show that I haven't been sitting at my house the entire time, I have been out doing things and putting myself into situations where I can meet people.

 

 

You're looking for a girlfriend.

 

Let's say as an analogy in this example you are training for a marathon run coming up in 3 months.

 

It absolutely matters if you're doing it now or in the past.

 

Would you go to training for your marathon thinking "I practiced 3 years ago. What does it matter?"

 

Of course you wouldn't. Because you need CURRENT training to get your body up to speed and in tip-top shape. You're preparing yourself for success.

 

Similar here. You need to constantly brush up on social skills. Being isolated will not help you do that. And if you don't do this, at a bare minimum, you will not attract a girlfriend.

 

To be honest, I can't believe you honestly cannot see why it matters whether you are in the club now, or many years ago. It's statements like this that cause me (and others) to scratch their head and wonder why you can't comprehend simple matters as these. It's not rocket science. BTW it's not about just the club. We're now talking daily social interactions in ANY avenue.

 

Same thing with your ? of how often do couples see each other in a week. There's no set answer -- everyone varies! It's not like there's a limit or bare minimum you absolutely have to meet each week. Some weeks I see Beth more often than other weeks. The key isn't the amount of communication... it's the QUALITY.

 

I could spend 1 really solid hour with Beth in a really busy week, and that would be 100x better than spending 50 "whatever" hours with her. i.e. she's surfing the net, I'm watching TV, no connection whatsoever.

 

It's never about how long. It's about HOW GOOD. Beth can confirm this for you from the female's perspective as well.

[Lonely Ronin]

Why does it matter if the things I've done are in the past or not? People tell me that I need to do X and then I show that I've already done X. It makes no difference if I'm doing X now or not. I listed the things I've done to show that I haven't been sitting at my house the entire time, I have been out doing things and putting myself into situations where I can meet people.

 

It shows what you did, not what you are doing now. If a doctor tells you to start eating better or you will die, you don't do it for 3 months and then stop. You do it for the rest of your life. Social skills are not "been there done that got the t-shirt" things. They must be constantly honed. The is one thing some war vets suffer with. When they come home, they have to relearn how to interact with society.

 

See Meek's post it's a good answer as well.

 

 

I have no idea how going to the coffee shop and doing homework is going to get me friends.

Come on man...

 

It puts you in an environment where you have a chance to interact with people you don't know. Stop being so literal, and just get out of your house and go interact with people.

 

You are assuming that I'll still be depressed when I have a girlfriend.

It's not a light switch what you have isn't going to go away just because you have been dating a woman for the or 4 weeks.

 

Of course it's relevant. You say I'll be needy by wanting to spend too much time with her, and yet you tell me that how much time most couples spend together isn't relevant

Don't be a smart ass, your not good at it, and it pisses people off when they are trying to help you.

 

You can't think, plot, & scheme your way through a relationship. You can't go, If I see her once a week I won't come off as needy. Relationships are about the ebb and flow of how each other feels about the other, not paint by numbers.

 

Only a few people have talked about having low self-confidence and being depressed because they couldn't get a Gf, and even rarer are the guys who managed to get a GF and "magically" felt better.

No woman on the planet is going to magically give you confidence. Even if she could, in your current state you would scare her off after a few weeks. Nno one is going to want to be with someone who can't make themselves happy. If you can't make yourself happy, there is no way in hell you are going to be able to make her happy when she is down.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Obviously, making any efforts at all is a nonsensical waste of your precious time. You should never.

[ColdEggNog]

Somedude81,

 

First, let me just say that I've been lurking on your posts for a very long time- I have followed along with this entire thread, as well as many of your other threads over the last year. I've found that, even though you don't approve of much of the advice here, I've been able to apply many bits and pieces to my own life and gotten new perspectives. Meeks, Teknoe, and everybody else that has posted so consistently in these threads; even though their advice hasn't directly helped you, it has helped me pinpoint some things wrong with my own life and actively make changes. For that, I thank these guys for posting so faithfully- it hasn't gone to waste, and I hope that they don't feel like their time has been wasted either!

 

With that said, I wouldn't be following your threads so much if 1) there weren't some parallels in my life too, and 2) if I believed that you were a lost cause. In some senses, we're very different. Four years ago, I was 18. Yes, it is a lot younger than you are now, but I can only assume that you were facing similar circumstances then as well. My self-worth was largely tied in to my ability to attract a girl; I had been told on numerous occasions that I wasn't very good looking. My dad told me that he thought I was gay because I hadn't dated anyone yet, and my so called "best friends" told me I was going to die alone on a regular basis. Yes, my self confidence was abysmally low, and it was something I thought I could cure by simply "getting a girlfriend." While I did have several platonic friendships with girls, I couldn't get a girl to be attracted to me, and I constantly found myself thinking, "if I could just get a girlfriend, maybe I'll know what happiness is." I have been in your shoes. I've had a string of meaningless hookups, but nothing that I would say has ever been "meaningful" and I've still never dated. My dangerous mindset of thinking never helped me- it was only until recently that I found that this mindset was actually preventing me from getting a girlfriend.

 

I absolutely refused to make any changes to my life. I would ask out a female friend, say "hey I like you, do you wanna go out sometime?" and she would shoot me down, and I would try to validate my efforts by saying that I "tried" and thinking that I was entitled to a chance with her. I lost my best female friend when I was 17, let's call her E, because I was too clingy when I wanted more than friendship. We were best friends for about a year when I developed feelings for her; she talked to me online daily (she almost always initiated) and I started treating her way differently when I had feelings for her. I began making inappropriate comments that offended her (asking about her personal sex life with her old boyfriends). This drove her away and we don't talk anymore. Granted, she didn't explicitly say "we can't be friends anymore," but over time, I realized my behavior was driving her away. Do these experiences sound at all similar to what you're experiencing right now?

 

I should directly address the topic, "How does the dating and sex thing actually work," to make sure I don't stray from the topic at hand. Somedude, there is no "cure all" answer to your question. I've always went by the "friends first, lovers later" approach for trying to get a girlfriend, for similar reasons as yourself. In an ideal world, I would be best friends with a girl I was dating. Yes, we hear of stories where this has happened- it is certainly not "impossible" to get out of the friend zone, but not something we can depend on. The common answers for getting a woman are to exude confidence out of your pores, ask out many women, etc. You've stated that for whatever reasons, these approaches will not work for you. Fair enough. You also don't want to put yourself out there in different social situations (online dating, volunteering, etc.) While I have many, many, personal success stories as to how I made friends at random just by putting myself out there in each of these settings, I can understand if you're not feeling confident enough to do that. What's the last thing to do? Self improvement. I understand the feeling of thinking that having a girlfriend will make everything better, but truthfully, that mindset will only make things worse.

 

I want to point out a few quotes from the most recent few pages that I just wanted to comment on. I feel like these tidbits will help. If you don't feel like they're something you're willing to try, let me know, and I'll see if I can generate novel advice that's more outside the box. As someone that has experienced what you've felt and has gotten out of that slump, I feel like the stuff I'm saying should resonate well with you.

 

Here's the thing, just being around people doesn't make somebody want to be your friend. And when I actively tired to make friends with guys and hang out with them, they were always too busy so I eventually stopped trying.

 

You're correct, in the literal sense that "just being around people doesn't make somebody want to be your friend." However, giving off the vibe that you're an outgoing, friendly person will make somebody want to be your friend. This cannot be accomplished by doing nothing.

 

A personal experience: last weekend, instead of running on the treadmill in my house, I decided to go on a run in the park- I felt like being around people that Saturday afternoon. At the end of my run, I saw a guy close to my age practicing his tennis serve alone in the tennis court. I play tennis too, so I walked up to him and asked if he wanted to hit around, and he said yes. Now we get together a few times a week to rally and practice doing something we both enjoy. You've said that you can't simply walk up to someone and ask to be their friend- in this case, I've essentially done that. It's all in how you present yourself. More importantly, I just put myself out there. This won't help you directly in your quest to get a girlfriend, but small things like this can have much longer lasting effects. Perhaps happiness!

 

I have no idea how going to the coffee shop and doing homework is going to get me friends.

 

You're not literally going to make friends by walking into a coffee shop and doing homework. The piece of advice of getting yourself out there is meant to encourage you to get out of the house- small steps. By putting yourself out there, you make it much more likely to make friends. If you want more personal experiences on my end or more advice on how to do this, let me know.

 

It's not fair to say SD puts in NO effort. He may not go about things the way LS tells him to, but he does put forth some effort in his own way. He has made lists of all the clubs / activities he has joined. No one EVER acknowledges that. No advice is tailored to him, to the person he IS. No one suggests how to work with what he has. It's basically "change this, that, that, and also that."

 

Okay, somedude very recently provided a list of activities he has been involved in as well as the length of time of involvement. Nonetheless, this says very little about the level of participation in these activities. Sure, he may have been in Japanese club for over a year, but to what extent did he participate and talk to others? It is one thing to get yourself out there, but did he make sure he was approachable? He mentioned that he made an effort to talk to people- did he initiate conversation, or did he wait for people to come to him? Where there awkward silences in these interactions? Again, none of know except for him the direct level of effort exerted in his interactions, we can only make assumptions, which can be right or wrong. I'm just saying, I was apart of an outreach organization at college for three years and served as an officer for one year for that organization, but in my time, I never truly tried to make real connections. veggirl, not to challenge you, but you say "No advice is tailored to him, to the person he IS," but can you think of any advice that is truly 100% tailored to who he is now? Anything that will require absolutely no changes based on today and not the past? If you've done this, I retract my question.

 

When you're getting out and doing stuff with friends & by yourself, you will have interesting life experiences. Life experiences leads to story telling & comradery amongst people. That in turns leads to people being able to relate to you. Over times this has a snow ball effect and leads to more friends, more life experiences, more stories to tell, and a better quality of life overall.

 

Hmm, I had no idea story telling was so important. I never really liked talking about myself.

 

Even though I have a lot of different, interesting experiences (a lot of travel, a lot of fun high school stories, interesting friends, etc), I never liked talking about myself either. This was one of my big problems- as it turns out, I'm fragile when it comes to opening up to people. I feel like others are uninterested in my stories or that I'm being selfish by sharing a story about myself or others; this was not the case at all, and whenever I share a good story, I find that my stories are usually viewed favorably and people like hearing them. Having a few good stories for a rainy day can really make or break somebody's perception of you, so if this is a skill you don't have, take some time to brainstorm and rehearse some stories- if you really need to, fudge a little bit to make it sound interesting. If you don't like talking about yourself, this will drive people away- people may see you as a nice guy, but you'll never make any true connections- I know this from experience. Consider this! Many people told me explicitly that I was too quiet, and that many people thought I had a bland personality despite my humor. You say yourself that your social skills are good; let's assume this is true. You don't want to answer questions about D. That's fine, we can't force you.

 

However, can you do me a favor and answer a few questions about yourself? This will really give me more insight onto who you are as a person. I want to be able to help you a little more. I know I didn't offer much in the sense of advice in this post, but first I want to make sure that you and I are on the same page. Please don't disregard my questions saying that they're irrelevent; they are very relevant, but I won't tell you why until you respond, and then I can tailor more personal advice to you.

 

1. I want to know a little bit about you. What's your favorite video game, movie, food, band, and hobby?

2. What is something you've always wanted to do, but haven't done? Aside from getting a girlfriend.

3. Where do you see yourself in 5 years? I mean, in regards to your career, location, financial situation, hobbies- let's assume that having a girlfriend is irrelevant. What kind of job do you wish to get with your degree?

4. How long have you been on LoveShack? How did you come across it, and what was your reason for joining?

5. Hypothetical scenario: you find a wallet on the street. You take a peak inside and see her drivers license; she's a 24 year old girl, a pretty girl. The wallet includes $50, a GameStop card and a picture of her with her boyfriend. What do you do with the wallet?

 

 

I'm rooting for you man, and hopefully at least part of my post speaks to you.

Edited July 25, 2012 by ColdEggNog

[somedude81]

Wow, what a post. Thanks for taking the time ColdEggNog, which is my favorite drink BTW. I buy it by the gallon when it's in season

Somedude81,

 

First, let me just say that I've been lurking on your posts for a very long time- I have followed along with this entire thread, as well as many of your other threads over the last year. I've found that, even though you don't approve of much of the advice here, I've been able to apply many bits and pieces to my own life and gotten new perspectives. Meeks, Teknoe, and everybody else that has posted so consistently in these threads; even though their advice hasn't directly helped you, it has helped me pinpoint some things wrong with my own life and actively make changes. For that, I thank these guys for posting so faithfully- it hasn't gone to waste, and I hope that they don't feel like their time has been wasted either!

I'm glad somebody gets something out of their posts.

 

With that said, I wouldn't be following your threads so much if 1) there weren't some parallels in my life too, and 2) if I believed that you were a lost cause. In some senses, we're very different. Four years ago, I was 18. Yes, it is a lot younger than you are now, but I can only assume that you were facing similar circumstances then as well.

Indeed I was.

 

Back when I was 22, I was extremely quiet, I hardly ever spoke to anybody. I remember going to Jr. college for a couple of years and I can't remember having a conversation with anybody on that campus. Needless to say, I wasn't dating anybody nor have I ever in a friendzone thing by that time.

 

My self-worth was largely tied in to my ability to attract a girl; I had been told on numerous occasions that I wasn't very good looking. My dad told me that he thought I was gay because I hadn't dated anyone yet, and my so called "best friends" told me I was going to die alone on a regular basis.

Damn, that really sucks. The people who were supposed to be there for you failed.

 

In a way, my parents failed as well. Neither of them talked about dating/relationships or girls at all with me. Even now that I'm 30 years old, my Dad still never talks about it, but at least my mom is worried about me though she has been of no help. Heck, she hasn't remarried since she divorced my dad over 20 years ago. I don't think she's had a boyfriend in 10 years. She also doesn't have any real friends. I think we're too alike in those things.

 

Yes, my self confidence was abysmally low, and it was something I thought I could cure by simply "getting a girlfriend." While I did have several platonic friendships with girls, I couldn't get a girl to be attracted to me, and I constantly found myself thinking, "if I could just get a girlfriend, maybe I'll know what happiness is." I have been in your shoes. I've had a string of meaningless hookups, but nothing that I would say has ever been "meaningful" and I've still never dated.

So the hookups didn't help your confidence at all?

 

Yeah I'm not sure how much some meaningless casual things would help me either. It's simply not what I want.

 

Though it seems that none of us has had a GF yet, and don't know if that is the answer or not.

 

My dangerous mindset of thinking never helped me- it was only until recently that I found that this mindset was actually preventing me from getting a girlfriend.

How was it preventing you?

I absolutely refused to make any changes to my life. I would ask out a female friend, say "hey I like you, do you wanna go out sometime?" and she would shoot me down, and I would try to validate my efforts by saying that I "tried" and thinking that I was entitled to a chance with her. I lost my best female friend when I was 17, let's call her E, because I was too clingy when I wanted more than friendship. We were best friends for about a year when I developed feelings for her; she talked to me online daily (she almost always initiated) and I started treating her way differently when I had feelings for her. I began making inappropriate comments that offended her (asking about her personal sex life with her old boyfriends). This drove her away and we don't talk anymore. Granted, she didn't explicitly say "we can't be friends anymore," but over time, I realized my behavior was driving her away. Do these experiences sound at all similar to what you're experiencing right now?

Damn, 17, that was so long ago for me. Back then I just had my nerdy high school buddies and we'd play video games and watch Dragon Ball Z. Girls were like fairies or something. They just didn't exist in my world.

 

As for losing your friend E because you made inappropriate comments, I can relate to that and have done that with a couple of girls that I liked. Verbally expressing a desire to have sex with a girl when I don't have that sort of relationship with her has always been a friendship ender. That's one of the main reasons why I never talked about sex with Dani. I only let her know that I liked her, and never anything more. I tried to avoid doing anything that would make her feel too pressured that would chase her away. Though I did admit being a little too strong in trying to make plans with her if we hadn't hung out in a few weeks.

I should directly address the topic, "How does the dating and sex thing actually work," to make sure I don't stray from the topic at hand. Somedude, there is no "cure all" answer to your question. I've always went by the "friends first, lovers later" approach for trying to get a girlfriend, for similar reasons as yourself. In an ideal world, I would be best friends with a girl I was dating. Yes, we hear of stories where this has happened- it is certainly not "impossible" to get out of the friend zone, but not something we can depend on.

If only we did live in an ideal world.

 

The store I work at has about 20 songs on rotation and when ever t

plays I just get pissed.

The common answers for getting a woman are to exude confidence out of your pores, ask out many women, etc. You've stated that for whatever reasons, these approaches will not work for you. Fair enough.

Yeah, I don't exude confidence out of my pores.

 

Every woman I have asked out has rejected me, except for the rare one where I was able to get a first date. To me, asking out a lot of girls = getting rejected by a lot of girls.

 

You also don't want to put yourself out there in different social situations (online dating, volunteering, etc.) While I have many, many, personal success stories as to how I made friends at random just by putting myself out there in each of these settings, I can understand if you're not feeling confident enough to do that.

Putting myself out there? I see you go into it more further on.

What's the last thing to do? Self improvement. I understand the feeling of thinking that having a girlfriend will make everything better, but truthfully, that mindset will only make things worse.

How does that mindset make things worse?

 

 

 

You're correct, in the literal sense that "just being around people doesn't make somebody want to be your friend." However, giving off the vibe that you're an outgoing, friendly person will make somebody want to be your friend. This cannot be accomplished by doing nothing.

 

A personal experience: last weekend, instead of running on the treadmill in my house, I decided to go on a run in the park- I felt like being around people that Saturday afternoon. At the end of my run, I saw a guy close to my age practicing his tennis serve alone in the tennis court. I play tennis too, so I walked up to him and asked if he wanted to hit around, and he said yes. Now we get together a few times a week to rally and practice doing something we both enjoy. You've said that you can't simply walk up to someone and ask to be their friend- in this case, I've essentially done that. It's all in how you present yourself. More importantly, I just put myself out there. This won't help you directly in your quest to get a girlfriend, but small things like this can have much longer lasting effects. Perhaps happiness!

I think it's amazing that you did that. It is certainly something that I can not do. I am not that outgoing of a person. Hell if I was in your situation but it was a girl playing with by herself, I wouldn't even go up to her.

 

BTW which of you initiated plans to meet up again?

 

You're not literally going to make friends by walking into a coffee shop and doing homework. The piece of advice of getting yourself out there is meant to encourage you to get out of the house- small steps. By putting yourself out there, you make it much more likely to make friends. If you want more personal experiences on my end or more advice on how to do this, let me know.

Putting myself out there is a very vague term. People keep saying that I need to place myself in situations around people and I'll start to make friends. Though nobody mentions anything about starting conversations with strangers and such. Of course starting a conversation with somebody I'm in a class/club/team with is very different from going up to a random person pumping gas.

 

 

 

Okay, somedude very recently provided a list of activities he has been involved in as well as the length of time of involvement. Nonetheless, this says very little about the level of participation in these activities. Sure, he may have been in Japanese club for over a year, but to what extent did he participate and talk to others? It is one thing to get yourself out there, but did he make sure he was approachable? He mentioned that he made an effort to talk to people- did he initiate conversation, or did he wait for people to come to him? Where there awkward silences in these interactions? Again, none of know except for him the direct level of effort exerted in his interactions, we can only make assumptions, which can be right or wrong. I'm just saying, I was apart of an outreach organization at college for three years and served as an officer for one year for that organization, but in my time, I never truly tried to make real connections.

Yes I also initiated conversations with people in the clubs and teams and earnestly tried to make a few friends.

 

One thing that seems to keep happening is that guys already seem to have their own circle of friends and don't really seem interested in making new ones. For some reason it's always been easier to get a girl to hang out with me than a guy.

 

 

Even though I have a lot of different, interesting experiences (a lot of travel, a lot of fun high school stories, interesting friends, etc), I never liked talking about myself either. This was one of my big problems- as it turns out, I'm fragile when it comes to opening up to people. I feel like others are uninterested in my stories or that I'm being selfish by sharing a story about myself or others; this was not the case at all, and whenever I share a good story, I find that my stories are usually viewed favorably and people like hearing them. Having a few good stories for a rainy day can really make or break somebody's perception of you, so if this is a skill you don't have, take some time to brainstorm and rehearse some stories- if you really need to, fudge a little bit to make it sound interesting.

I really don't think I have any exciting or interesting stories to tell. A big part of that is almost everything I've done in the past, even if it should have been a good experience, I only remember the bad things about it. And of course nobody wants to hear about something depressing. I simply believe that other people are more interesting than me. Also when I'm with a girl, I want to get to know her better and hear her voice. The last thing I want to do is talk about myself because it's just boring to me. Though one thing I do is write about myself a lot.

 

If you don't like talking about yourself, this will drive people away- people may see you as a nice guy, but you'll never make any true connections- I know this from experience. Consider this! Many people told me explicitly that I was too quiet, and that many people thought I had a bland personality despite my humor. You say yourself that your social skills are good; let's assume this is true.

I think my social skills are passable but that really does depend on what social skills actually encompasses.

 

I do feel that I am pretty quiet, mostly because I feel that I don't know what to say. That changes when I get to know somebody and feel comfortable with them, then I can talk to them with no problems at all. In other words, I'm fine once the ice has been broken.

 

You don't want to answer questions about D. That's fine, we can't force you.

Was there something about her you wanted to ask? No I don't know what her favorite outfit was when she was seven years old, if you were going to ask a Meeks7 type question.

However, can you do me a favor and answer a few questions about yourself? This will really give me more insight onto who you are as a person. I want to be able to help you a little more. I know I didn't offer much in the sense of advice in this post, but first I want to make sure that you and I are on the same page. Please don't disregard my questions saying that they're irrelevent; they are very relevant, but I won't tell you why until you respond, and then I can tailor more personal advice to you.

Sure thing.

1. I want to know a little bit about you. What's your favorite video game, movie, food, band, and hobby?

Favorite video games changes over the years. For the longest time it's been JRPG's like Final Fantasy. I also enjoy games like Dragon Age and Elder Scrolls. The Mass Effect series was also good and I'm currently spending too much time each day playing the multi-player, which is funny because it's the only online game I've ever played.

 

I prefer the solitary gaming experience. When I play MMO's I never join guilds and only part when absolutely necessary. I never have anybody on my friends list. The other people might as well be NPC's. When I play Mass Effect online, I have voice chat muted and I never speak.

 

I do like to play with people I know locally, especially girls. Which reminds me about her

 

I don't have a favorite movie. But I do like super hero, action and comedy movies. The Avengers was awesome, but I've only seen it once.

 

Favorite foods are pizza, buffalo wings and mainstream Asian and Mexican foods.

 

Top bands right now are Offspring, Green Day, Linkin Park, Foo Fighters; so I like alternative. Though I also like dance/club music. When I want to mellow out my favorite station is Groove Salad.

 

Hobbies are playing video games, watching anime, killing time online, I also like going on little journeys. For example I might explore my town on my bike or ride to the jetty at the beach. When I'm in an unfamiliar location for an event or something I like to wander around on foot and see what there is to see. I don't like being cooped up in one place when I'm outside my apartment. I also work out and did so a few hours ago.

 

2. What is something you've always wanted to do, but haven't done? Aside from getting a girlfriend.

I'd like to go on a cruise. Traveling would also be nice.

 

One thing that would be pretty cool is to take my car on a track and just go fast.

 

 

 

3. Where do you see yourself in 5 years? I mean, in regards to your career, location, financial situation, hobbies- let's assume that having a girlfriend is irrelevant. What kind of job do you wish to get with your degree?

My major is Information Systems. So most likely I'd have some sort of job in the tech industry. Honestly, I'm graduating next year and don't have any real plans after that. I'll probably just start applying and see if anybody in family knows of any place that could use me.

 

I'd probably be living in a nicer apartment and have more money than I do now, which isn't that hard to do.

 

Hobbies would probably be the same as they are now. Of course assuming I don't have a GF. I think I'd buy a motorcycle once I have more disposable income, and an assigned parking space which I don't have now.

 

 

4. How long have you been on LoveShack? How did you come across it, and what was your reason for joining?

Join Date: Mar 2008

 

I head about LS when I was a regular poster on PUA website called SoSuave. I joined because there were actually women here

 

I felt that I could only get so much from a single gender website.

 

 

5. Hypothetical scenario: you find a wallet on the street. You take a peak inside and see her drivers license; she's a 24 year old girl, a pretty girl. The wallet includes $50, a GameStop card and a picture of her with her boyfriend. What do you do with the wallet?

I'd mail it to her with all the contents included. I just hope the address on her license is correct because mine sure isn't

 

So what have you learned about me?

I'm rooting for you man, and hopefully at least part of my post speaks to you.

Thanks for the encouragement.