How does the dating and sex thing actually work?

[oaks]

I need to know what women look for first so I can work on that.

 

They don't all look for the same thing, so you can't work on it. There are some general things that are broadly seen as attractive that you can probably list for yourself, though. (You've read enough posts on here by now!)

[Teknoe]

Personally, I think you vastly overestimate the power of looks and underestimate the power of social skills.

 

But why of course.

 

Fixating on the power of looks = SD can't do anything about it, woe is me, this is the hand God dealt me, etc. etc....

 

Ignoring the power of social skills = ignorance is bliss. SD can put in NO effort and think everything's "OK"

 

If it were flipped, where he valued social skills then *GASP* he would have to get off his butt and actually give an effort, step out of his comfort zone.

 

So much easier blaming your lot in life on circumstances beyond your control. It's no wonder he's stuck where he is, and doomed to be stuck until he changes the way he sees the world. Because he's isolated, I don't like his odds to change. He's going to need a support group, and quite possibly an intense life coach.

[ThaWholigan]

This is what I was fearing would happen in this thread......we would post our repetitive replies, Somedude would get confused and resist the advice, then we all pile on him because he isn't listening or appearing to take any advice, thread dies, 2 weeks later, Somedude makes thread, we would post our repetitive replies, Somedude would get confused and resist the advice....and so on and so forth.

 

None of this will mean anything unless action is taken. And I don't want it to resemble picking on an easy target like it usually does.

[zengirl]

I think it's been painfully obvious for years now that I am fairly immature in many areas. You don't need to keep pointing it out.

 

If you know you're immature, why not work on it?

 

That seems very broad.

 

I'm trying to think of some examples where a woman can tell I have social capital.

 

It's a broad concept. The biggest indicator you don't have social capital will be poor social skills (which women can tell easily in most cases --- women have a much better nose for poor social skills than men, typically, due to the way they're socialized, and prioritize them much higher, etc) AND your lack of a social community (i.e. friends).

 

Seeming or looking younger is not typically a plus for men, as MC says. At any rate, I've seen a fairly old pic of you awhile back and I wouldn't say you look much younger than you are. I'd place you at mid-20s at absolute YOUNGEST, which means everyone can tell you're older than typical college age. You absolutely do not look fresh out of HS or typical college range (18-22) at all.

[SJC2008]

I don't neccessarily think going for a college aged woman is a bad thing but try to go for one who is a litle older than the 19-22 range. There have been a few threads here about colleged aged woman liking their teachers or an older student in his early 30's. 30 isn't that old now and there are more woman 23-26 around college campuses than you think, I need to find one myself lol.

 

How would you describe your personality?? Are you smart? Witty? goofy? Good at conversation? And most importantly, what kind of woman do you like? Thats what matters.

[Eddie Edirol]

As I said before, it's not really that I don't know what I'm doing wrong. It's just that I don't know what to do right.

 

Like I said, research. You can find out what to do right, and at the same time find out where you were wrong, that you didnt know already. But you actually have to do the work and look it up. Once you find out what to do thats the right way (there is a right way regardless what the dissenters try to tell you) then you wont have a problem getting back into action, and tailoring the methods for yourself.

[Teknoe]

This is what I was fearing would happen in this thread......we would post our repetitive replies, Somedude would get confused and resist the advice, then we all pile on him because he isn't listening or appearing to take any advice, thread dies, 2 weeks later, Somedude makes thread, we would post our repetitive replies, Somedude would get confused and resist the advice....and so on and so forth.

 

None of this will mean anything unless action is taken. And I don't want it to resemble picking on an easy target like it usually does.

 

 

yeah but nothing's gonna change until he himself does.

 

and notice you said 2 weeks.

 

before it was 1 week.

 

now he's spacing out his threads, but everytime he makes a new one, people inevitably tell him the same thing.

 

i wonder if he'll wait 3 weeks at a time not too long from now.

 

by now, most people here know his act and his history. it's becoming harder for him to read the kind of posts he wants to read (i.e. the "everything is gonna be OK" kind) since more and more know about his situation

 

probably why he isn't as eager to start a new thread as he did 6 months ago.

 

things aren't going to get any better for him until he puts in a real life effort.

[somedude81]

You're wrong. It doesn't work that way. You're 30. You must be getting an inkling about this by now.

Obviously I'm not.

Regarding the "friend" issue: you have posted quite a bit here that demonstrates that you have no concept or interest in being or having true friendship with anyone, and I have not read any examples of you ever having experienced that.

No I don't seek out people to be friends. But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy them when I have friendships or that I'm unable of actually being a friend.

Regarding the "age" issue: It's not creepy, it's just not happening. 20 - 22 year old girls don't want to date guys 10 years older than they are unless the guy is well established. That's the allure of the "older man."

And they don't want to date an older guy because?

"I need to know what women look for first so I can work on that."

 

This is part of if not the majority of your problem IMO. Stop putting women on a pedestal. I have the feeling you may be so insecure and desperate it's coming out of you pores and women can sense that when you intereact with them and I say that with all due respect. I've said it here myself that woman don't have "radar" or pick up on things like that more than men can but that may be the "vibe" you're giving of.

I really don't think that's the case. I'm hardly clingy or needy with girls. I'm also not obviously seeking approval from them either. I've long ago learned that I need to give girls space.

 

Are you getting dates and than friend zoned or getting friend zoned off the bat?? If you have so many female friends from being f zoned why don't you aske them to introduce you to someone??

As I've said before, I've only had three real first dates in my life. Only one of those girls went on to be an actual friendship. All other times I spent with women were friendzone things.

 

I've never asked a friend to introduce me to somebody because it just seemed really desperate. Also it seemed foolish to ask a girl I was interested in, to set me up with somebody else.

They don't all look for the same thing, so you can't work on it. There are some general things that are broadly seen as attractive that you can probably list for yourself, though. (You've read enough posts on here by now!)

I do, and they only make me depressed.

If you know you're immature, why not work on it?

How can I?

 

One gains maturity through life experiences. When it comes to women an relationship, I might as well be 16 years old.

 

It's a broad concept. The biggest indicator you don't have social capital will be poor social skills (which women can tell easily in most cases --- women have a much better nose for poor social skills than men, typically, due to the way they're socialized, and prioritize them much higher, etc) AND your lack of a social community (i.e. friends).

And how do social skills improve? And please don't just say "by making and having friends."

Seeming or looking younger is not typically a plus for men, as MC says. At any rate, I've seen a fairly old pic of you awhile back and I wouldn't say you look much younger than you are. I'd place you at mid-20s at absolute YOUNGEST, which means everyone can tell you're older than typical college age. You absolutely do not look fresh out of HS or typical college range (18-22) at all.

That "fairly old pic" of me was taken less than a year ago.

 

And no, I'm not trying to pass my self off as 22 or younger. If anybody asks I tell them that I worked for a few years after college and decided to go back to school, which is the truth.

 

Odds are I'm guessing that most people think I'm 23-25. Would somebody who is 25 be too old to date a girl who is 21?

 

And no, I don't see anything wrong with letting somebody think I'm younger than I am. As long as I don't actually lie to somebody, then what's the problem?

[oaks]

And they don't want to date an older guy because?

 

I socialise with a bunch of university-age kids through one of the sports that I do. A small proportion of them (both male and female) do have an older boyfriend/girlfriend either an older student or someone from outside academia, so it's not impossible. I haven't spent any time with those older partners to be able to say what's attractive about them, though. So, I don't entirely agree with your detractors on here who tell you you're wasting your time trying to date that age group if that's what you want to do. It might be a bit of an up-hill battle, though, because I think at that young age many of them would only be interested in dating someone of a similar age.

[Teknoe]

How can I?

 

One gains maturity through life experiences. When it comes to women an relationship, I might as well be 16 years old.

 

 

You've received plenty of good tips. You just always find an excuse why it doesn't apply to you.

 

 

And how do social skills improve? And please don't just say "by making and having friends."

 

BUT THAT'S THE ANSWER!

 

Really, it's like you're asking us:

 

"What's 2 + 2? And don't say 4!"

IT IS THE ANSWER. You're looking to avoid something you CAN'T avoid.

[Lonely Ronin]

And they don't want to date an older guy because?

 

for the love of god man, just think about it...

 

To a lot (not all) of 22 year old women, a 30 year old man is "a creepy old man".

 

 

Odds are I'm guessing that most people think I'm 23-25. Would somebody who is 25 be too old to date a girl who is 21?

 

I just looked up all (23) the 22 year old women on match in my area. here is the break down of their upper age limit.

 

30 - 3

29 - 1

28 - 5

27 - 3

26 - 4

25 - 6

24 - 1

23 - 0

22 - 0

 

 

for even better stats check out this census data.

Married Couples by Differences in Ages Between Husband and Wife: 1999 statistics - USA Census numbers

[SJC2008]

I really don't think that's the case. I'm hardly clingy or needy with girls. I'm also not obviously seeking approval from them either. I've long ago learned that I need to give girls space.

 

Ok well we can scratch that off the list and on to the next possibility.

 

What about this? You say you get friend zoned a lot so let's look at the other end of the spectrum. Is it possible that you are comming on to strong with women you meet??

 

Are you realistic with your standards?

[SJC2008]

for the love of god man, just think about it...

 

To a lot (not all) of 22 year old women, a 30 year old man is "a creepy old man".

 

 

 

 

I just looked up all (23) the 22 year old women on match in my area. here is the break down of their upper age limit.

 

30 - 3

29 - 1

28 - 5

27 - 3

26 - 4

25 - 6

24 - 1

23 - 0

22 - 0

 

 

for even better stats check out this census data.

Married Couples by Differences in Ages Between Husband and Wife: 1999 statistics - USA Census numbers

 

 

Ok saying a 22 year old thinks a 30 year old man is creepy is OTT IMO. I just looked up 23 year olds in a 15 mile radius who don't have kids and there were 43 but I went to 30 of them because that should be a good enough "sample" and 18/30 would date 30 and a little older. That's a 60 percent chance that a 23 year old would consider dating a 30 year old which is why I suggested to the op to go for the 23-26 range at his school. They won't be as common but they are there, trust me I go to a division 1 college.

[Lonely Ronin]

They won't be as common but they are there, trust me I go to a division 1 college.

 

for the record I live in a division one school city as well.

[zengirl]

And they don't want to date an older guy because?

 

Many college girls DO date older guys, but they tend to date older guys who are further along in life than they are not just in age but in maturity, status, etc. That was the point made.

 

How can I?

 

One gains maturity through life experiences. When it comes to women an relationship, I might as well be 16 years old.

 

One gains maturity through MANY areas besides romance. In fact, most maturity isn't going to be gained through dating and sex anyway, though it can be helpful in those areas.

 

And how do social skills improve? And please don't just say "by making and having friends."

 

As Teknoe says, that's the answer. Or at least a huge part of it. You can gain social skills by any type of social interaction and relationships, but especially friendships, which is where most people make most of their social gains --- generally PRIOR to ever learning how to tackle romance.

 

That "fairly old pic" of me was taken less than a year ago.

 

I thought I saw you post one over a year ago, but I could be wrong. I remember seeing one of you when I still lived in Asia. That was a couple of years ago now.

 

And no, I'm not trying to pass my self off as 22 or younger. If anybody asks I tell them that I worked for a few years after college and decided to go back to school, which is the truth.

 

I wasn't suggesting you were --- I was just saying no one was thinking you were all that young.

 

Odds are I'm guessing that most people think I'm 23-25. Would somebody who is 25 be too old to date a girl who is 21?

 

Well, you AREN'T 25 anyway, but even then, you'd be seen as a late bloomer. Young women -- especially younger women who date older -- don't tend to like late bloomers, as they still have plenty of men blooming around them and are blooming themselves, as a younger age. I wouldn't imagine you actually pass as 25 or much younger to most folks anyway, though, but if you're relying on women mistaking your age to get you anywhere, sounds like a bad strategy.

 

ETA: I'm not saying no 22 year old would ever date a 30 year old, even one who was a late bloomer, but as MC says your best hope there is to hone your skills, be yourself, and be authentic and happen to meet someone who truly clicks with you.

[Els]

I socialise with a bunch of university-age kids through one of the sports that I do. A small proportion of them (both male and female) do have an older boyfriend/girlfriend either an older student or someone from outside academia, so it's not impossible. I haven't spent any time with those older partners to be able to say what's attractive about them, though. So, I don't entirely agree with your detractors on here who tell you you're wasting your time trying to date that age group if that's what you want to do. It might be a bit of an up-hill battle, though, because I think at that young age many of them would only be interested in dating someone of a similar age.

 

This is correct, of course. I don't think anything relationship-related is ever 'impossible', really, considering how unpredictable humans are. It just has lower odds, and I think many of us are frustrated with SD consistently saying that 'women have it so much easier' and 'he just wants any ol' average woman', when we all know that his choices in many areas (not just his preferences, but his choice of what he does with himself as well, eg. not bothering to make a single male friend) ARE lowering his odds quite abysmally.

[zengirl]

This is correct, of course. I don't think anything relationship-related is ever 'impossible', really, considering how unpredictable humans are. It just has lower odds, and I think many of us are frustrated with SD consistently saying that 'women have it so much easier' and 'he just wants any ol' average woman', when we all know that his choices in many areas (not just his preferences, but his choice of what he does with himself as well, eg. not bothering to make a single male friend) ARE lowering his odds quite abysmally.

 

Oh, right, I don't think it's impossible --- it's just slimmer odds due to the nature of what girls that age tend to want, either a guy their own age or someone older who has something that older men have to offer generally (greater experience, more success/status, etc). Anything is possible. It's just that SD thinks it would be more 'likely' to happen with younger women and I think that's a fallacy.

[Els]

Oh, right, I don't think it's impossible --- it's just slimmer odds due to the nature of what girls that age tend to want, either a guy their own age or someone older who has something that older men have to offer generally (greater experience, more success/status, etc). Anything is possible. It's just that SD thinks it would be more 'likely' to happen with younger women and I think that's a fallacy.

 

Nod, I agree. FWIW, though, I don't think SD only goes for younger women because he thinks it's more likely to happen, but he genuinely prefers that age group. Which, again, could be fine especially if he would put real effort into working out (many women that age are quite appearance-oriented and love buff men), as well as getting friends and socializing.

[ThaWholigan]

Nod, I agree. FWIW, though, I don't think SD only goes for younger women because he thinks it's more likely to happen, but he genuinely prefers that age group. Which, again, could be fine especially if he would put real effort into working out (many women that age are quite appearance-oriented and love buff men), as well as getting friends and socializing.

If that's the case then he needs to be building that social life and asking out girls immediately, because if he still likes that demographic of girls 5 years from now, it's gonna seem a little bit more creepy to an extent, and worse still any years longer than that. I think maybe looking at girls in mid to late 20s would be a good bet??

[Mme. Chaucer]

SD, we are all familiar with your list of requirements. I think it would be wise for you to think about dating a woman within a year or 2 (up OR down) of your age who also has been a "late bloomer" and who has limited social and sexual experience; perhaps someone returning to school herself. Someone you can open up with. Maybe you can find one with the boob, weight, hair, and racial qualifications you need. You're always talking about "equals." Comparatively equal socio-economic status is really more important than "equality" of leagues, especially when YOU are the one designating the leagues all by yourself.

[somedude81]

for the love of god man, just think about it...

 

To a lot (not all) of 22 year old women, a 30 year old man is "a creepy old man".

And that's why I don't go telling anybody my age right away.

 

What they don't know isn't going to hurt them.

 

Ok well we can scratch that off the list and on to the next possibility.

 

What about this? You say you get friend zoned a lot so let's look at the other end of the spectrum. Is it possible that you are comming on to strong with women you meet??

No, if anything I'm coming off too weakly. I don't think a girl would friendzone me if I came on strongly and made her uncomfortable.

Are you realistic with your standards?

I like to think I am, but I really have no idea any more. I'm certainly not chasing the top girls.

As Teknoe says, that's the answer. Or at least a huge part of it. You can gain social skills by any type of social interaction and relationships, but especially friendships, which is where most people make most of their social gains --- generally PRIOR to ever learning how to tackle romance.

No it's not! One does not become mature just by having friends!

 

Come on people!

 

You become mature though life experiences and how you handle those.

 

I thought I saw you post one over a year ago, but I could be wrong. I remember seeing one of you when I still lived in Asia. That was a couple of years ago now.

Yeah I've posted a couple of pics of myself. The most recent was the one with me and the girl. That was taken less than a year ago.

 

 

 

Well, you AREN'T 25 anyway, but even then, you'd be seen as a late bloomer. Young women -- especially younger women who date older -- don't tend to like late bloomers, as they still have plenty of men blooming around them and are blooming themselves, as a younger age. I wouldn't imagine you actually pass as 25 or much younger to most folks anyway, though, but if you're relying on women mistaking your age to get you anywhere, sounds like a bad strategy.

So then who the hell wants to date a late bloomer?!

 

I thought a still blooming woman would since it's something we're both going through.

ETA: I'm not saying no 22 year old would ever date a 30 year old, even one who was a late bloomer, but as MC says your best hope there is to hone your skills, be yourself, and be authentic and happen to meet someone who truly clicks with you.

Yeah, it hasn't happened yet. IMO that really sounds like it's all about luck. And my luck is pretty horrible.

 

I can't stand the idea that there really is nothing I can do.

This is correct, of course. I don't think anything relationship-related is ever 'impossible', really, considering how unpredictable humans are. It just has lower odds, and I think many of us are frustrated with SD consistently saying that 'women have it so much easier' and 'he just wants any ol' average woman'

If you guys are frustrated from my words, how the hell do you think I feel?!

 

, when we all know that his choices in many areas (not just his preferences, but his choice of what he does with himself as well, eg. not bothering to make a single male friend) ARE lowering his odds quite abysmally.

And how does having guy friends help my odds?

 

BTW, I'm not exactly turning down guys for friendship here. I just can't walk up to a guy and ask him to be my friend.

If that's the case then he needs to be building that social life and asking out girls immediately, because if he still likes that demographic of girls 5 years from now, it's gonna seem a little bit more creepy to an extent, and worse still any years longer than that. I think maybe looking at girls in mid to late 20s would be a good bet??

Frankly, if I can't get this taken care of, I won't be around in five years.

SD, we are all familiar with your list of requirements. I think it would be wise for you to think about dating a woman within a year or 2 (up OR down) of your age who also has been a "late bloomer" and who has limited social and sexual experience; perhaps someone returning to school herself. Someone you can open up with. You're always talking about "equals."

Ha ha, very funny

 

You know very well that I'm never going to find such a woman.

[Els]

Half of the posts in the past few pages are about the benefits of making friends, SD. Why are you asking me that question again?

 

Absolutely you sometimes have to be the person that 'approaches' in order to make a friendship. It isn't easy (it isn't easy for me either, but I still try), but it's part of the learning process.

 

Maturity comes from life experience, yes, but a lot of that is related to stuff that friends naturally lead you to. I matured by leaps and bounds the first time I left my overprotective home and could finally hang out with a circle of friends. It makes a huge difference.

[Mme. Chaucer]

So. You reject ALL input you get on LoveShack. You seem kind of pompous about doing so, and project the impression that you are positive you are right and everyone else is ridiculous.

 

You are 30 years old and you have not had a relationship.

 

The clock is ticking.

 

Are you ever going to at least TRY some things different?

 

If you keep this up, I'm sorry to say this but I pretty much guarantee you will be in the same boat in 10 more years.

 

I remember when I was about 20 and a college student, encountering a guy or two like that. They did not make a favorable impression.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

Maturity comes from life experience, yes, but a lot of that is related to stuff that friends naturally lead you to. .

 

Friendships ARE a core part of life experience, and a huge social stepping stone.

[zigg1]

HOLY **** MAN, i think the same way!!!!!

 

But i mean, i have had girls that liked me, and when i told them i dont feel the same way, its like the attention fades away from me. I wont lie i dont like it lol..

 

I have had times where i have grown to like a girl that i did not like before. There is one girl who liked me for the longest time, i think about 4 years, and to this day i regret not accepting her, she is an amazing person, who actually cared for me.

 

I have a new rule now, im not down to chase women that don't feel the same way about me, i mean if i think shes worth it, i will pursue her to an extent but keep my expectations extremely low.

 

I think when 2 people love each other its the most amazing feeling. But i mean, some people just love each other for physical attraction, i think an attraction to personality is way more powerful than a physical attraction.

 

my freind for example is a really good looking guy, he gets hot girls, and when he breaks up with them, its like nothing happened.

 

he fell for a girl who we think is like a 4 out of 10, but she has a really good personality.

 

they broke up 2 days ago and its like hes not the same person.

 

Honestly im just thinking of getting an arranged marriage lolol. There are tons of good looking, respectful women my mom wants to hook me up with lol.