How does the dating and sex thing actually work?

[Meeks7]

No it's not! One does not become mature just by having friends!

 

Come on people!

 

You become mature though life experiences and how you handle those.

 

 

BUT THAT'S THE ANSWER!

 

Really, it's like you're asking us:

 

"What's 2 + 2? And don't say 4!"

 

IT IS THE ANSWER. You're looking to avoid something you CAN'T avoid.

 

I agree with Tek. You are blatantly trying your darnest to convince yourself being social and making friends is in NO SHAPE part of the answer. When in actuality it is in some part, if not LARGE PART, the answer.

 

It's clear to me you have social issues and you don't connect well with people. That's likely why you want to avoid this whole friend issue. It would require some effort on your part and you're just too comfortable blaming circumstances beyond your control as an excuse to not do anything.

 

I agree with MC. I would not be shocked if you're 40 and still in the same boat.

 

You are obviously shooting yourself in your own foot by ignoring and denying how important friends are to one's overall growth and life learning experiences. Life was not meant to be traveled down alone.

 

You're never going to find a girlfriend if your social skills don't improve. And the only way they'll improve is if you'll put yourself out there and start making some friends.

 

As Tek said, 2 + 2 is 4. You can convince yourself 3 or 5 is the answer, but you're only being delusional and hurting yourself.

[Eddie Edirol]

It's clear to me you have social issues and you don't connect well with people. That's likely why you want to avoid this whole friend issue. It would require some effort on your part and you're just too comfortable blaming circumstances beyond your control as an excuse to not do anything.

 

I agree with MC. I would not be shocked if you're 40 and still in the same boat.

 

You are obviously shooting yourself in your own foot by ignoring and denying how important friends are to one's overall growth and life learning experiences. Life was not meant to be traveled down alone.

 

Haha! Welcome to LS, just wait till you run into the others that do the same thing...

[ThaWholigan]

No it's not! One does not become mature just by having friends!

 

Come on people!

 

You become mature though life experiences and how you handle those.

 

One becomes more attractive by having more friends. Able to socialize better, converse better, seduce better. Interpersonal skills will increase tenfold. Maturity comes through life experiences, but life experiences are easier to deal with - when you have friends.

 

So then who the hell wants to date a late bloomer?!

 

I thought a still blooming woman would since it's something we're both going through.

Yeah, it hasn't happened yet. IMO that really sounds like it's all about luck. And my luck is pretty horrible.

 

A still blooming woman comes at many ages, not just 19-22. And it's not about luck. It's about probability. Trial and error increases probability of you getting a date.

 

I can't stand the idea that there really is nothing I can do.

 

If you guys are frustrated from my words, how the hell do you think I feel?!

 

There are lots of things you can do, but you tell yourself you can't do them. The idea that there is really nothing you can do is an idea that YOU came up with. You're frustrations are created by yourself.

 

And how does having guy friends help my odds?

 

BTW, I'm not exactly turning down guys for friendship here. I just can't walk up to a guy and ask him to be my friend.

 

Sure you can. I've made friends just by asking if they had a spare cigarette for my spliff . You can make friends anywhere.

 

Frankly, if I can't get this taken care of, I won't be around in five years.

 

Please don't entertain those kind of thoughts. It's counterproductive to what you're trying to achieve here.

 

Ha ha, very funny

 

You know very well that I'm never going to find such a woman.

 

And that is why you fail.

 

"I'll never get this"

"There's nothing I can do"

"It's all luck, and my luck is horrible"

"I just need a chance"

 

 

Why not:

 

"I'll figure this out"

"Make friends? Why not, I'll have a wide selection of people to speak to"

"Talk to more girls? Sure, why not, if she doesn't wanna date me, cool, I'll ask other girls"

"I'll meet a woman who's a little like me, they are about"

[Badsingularity]

Stop being scared. Push through your fears. Say "I can" instead of "I can't".

 

Look at yourself in the mirror and sing I'm too sexy for my shirt, followed by I'm sexy and I know it by LMFAO. REPEAT. REPEATEDLY.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Badsingularity

[Lonely Ronin]

And how does having guy friends help my odds?

Having freinds helps you in several ways.

 

1. It helps you hone your conversation skills

2. It helps you learn how to read people

3. You have freinds to go out and do stuff with

4. It helps you meet people including women you might not normally interact with.

[zengirl]

And that's why I don't go telling anybody my age right away.

 

What do you mean by that? Very weird thing to say. I don't think anyone goes around saying their age immediately, but if you're actively holding it back, that's going to turn off even more people --- people sense secrets and insecurities, and you're allowing your advanced (in comparison) age to become a secret/insecurity by doing it that way.

 

No it's not! One does not become mature just by having friends!

 

Not "just" by having friends, but being able to cultivate and maintain friendships is a crucial stepping stone to maturity -- the maintenance part being more crucial than the making part. Being able to grow through shared experiences with other people is absolutely key to social maturity -- most people do that through friendships primarily and romantic relationships later in life, secondarily. You keep wanting to skip past the first part, despite clearly not having acquired the necessary social skills and social capital. That makes it much harder to reach your goal --- you think you're being efficient, but it's really, really not.

 

You become mature though life experiences and how you handle those.

 

As Elswyth and MC said, many of those come through friendships. Additionally, SOCIAL maturity only comes through such experiences with other people. If you need to build social maturity to get a R and thus have no R, friendships are what's left. Or familial connections.

 

Yeah I've posted a couple of pics of myself. The most recent was the one with me and the girl. That was taken less than a year ago.

 

That's not the one I'm thinking of, fwiw.

 

So then who the hell wants to date a late bloomer?!

 

Other late bloomers or especially open-minded women, I'd guess. And, of course, it's more likely someone would date you in spite of you being a late bloomer, not because of it. Young women -- who are very desirable and blooming at their proper age, and generally less mature and more superficial than they will become as they age, who have a multitude of options their own age surrounding them AND opportunity to date older men who did not bloom late -- are simply not an easy bunch to target for someone with your 'stats'.

[LittlePrince]

How does the dating and sex thing actually work?

I would demonstrate with a stick and a hole but I think it might be too technical at this juncture.

[somedude81]

Absolutely you sometimes have to be the person that 'approaches' in order to make a friendship. It isn't easy (it isn't easy for me either, but I still try), but it's part of the learning process.

See, what bugs me is that if I want to get a GF, I have to be the one who approaches. If I want to make friends, I have to be the one who approaches.

 

Making friends seems to be the same amount of work as trying to get a girl, and it doesn't have anywhere close to the benefits.

Maturity comes from life experience, yes, but a lot of that is related to stuff that friends naturally lead you to. I matured by leaps and bounds the first time I left my overprotective home and could finally hang out with a circle of friends. It makes a huge difference.

I've already moved out of my parents house and I'm going to college which is an 8 hour drive from home. I've got my own apartment and I have a job. I can talk to people and socialize. So I really don't see how having friends is going to make me more mature.

Friendships ARE a core part of life experience, and a huge social stepping stone.

Right, and I've had them. I'm not some guy who has never had a friend.

You're never going to find a girlfriend if your social skills don't improve. And the only way they'll improve is if you'll put yourself out there and start making some friends.

I just don't see the connection between making friends and getting girls. Nor do I see the connection between making friends and improving social skills. That's exasperated by the fact I naturally make friends with girls when I really just want to date them.

 

Which is why I made this thread.

 

I want to be able to meet a new girl and not accidentally end up becoming just friends with her. That's why I'm asking how dating and sex actually work.

One becomes more attractive by having more friends. Able to socialize better, converse better, seduce better. Interpersonal skills will increase tenfold.

OK, maybe one does become more attractive by having more friends and that's just because of popularity. None of the other things you said seem connected.

Maturity comes through life experiences, but life experiences are easier to deal with - when you have friends.

Now that is something that makes sense. It's having a support group and I can understand how that is really helpful.

 

 

A still blooming woman comes at many ages, not just 19-22. And it's not about luck. It's about probability. Trial and error increases probability of you getting a date.

The probability of finding a still blooming woman older than 22 is very slim. Most likely she is the religious, waiting for marriage type or she is extremely shy.

 

Sure you can. I've made friends just by asking if they had a spare cigarette for my spliff . You can make friends anywhere.

Seriously? You made a real friend?

 

How the hell did that happen?

 

Please don't entertain those kind of thoughts. It's counterproductive to what you're trying to achieve here.

But it's always in my mind. I try not to think of the future. The very thought that I could be exactly where I am now, five years from now is horrible. Frankly, I'd rather be dead then go through five more years of this.

 

 

 

And that is why you fail.

I was talking about how it would be almost impossible to meet a girl like me. Somebody who is in my age range going through similar experiences as me. It's just not going to happen, nor is it even a requirement.

Having freinds helps you in several ways.

 

1. It helps you hone your conversation skills

2. It helps you learn how to read people

3. You have freinds to go out and do stuff with

4. It helps you meet people including women you might not normally interact with.

I'm fine with 1. I don't think I'm that bad with 2, though my main problem is that I can't read women very well. Not sure how having guy friends would help with that. 3 would mean more fun things to do and I'm not going to argue with that. 4, yeah if I get invited to things where girls are present. Or I meet a guys GF and she has friends. I can see how that can help.

What do you mean by that? Very weird thing to say. I don't think anyone goes around saying their age immediately,

Exactly. When you meet a new person, you don't tell them your name and age do you? Does their actual age ever become relevant?

 

 

but if you're actively holding it back, that's going to turn off even more people --- people sense secrets and insecurities, and you're allowing your advanced (in comparison) age to become a secret/insecurity by doing it that way.

Turn off even more people then what?

 

I really don't have any reason to tell somebody my age. How can it be of any benefit to know how old somebody is? If somebody thinks I'm younger than I am, fine.

Other late bloomers or especially open-minded women, I'd guess.

And how common are late bloomers or especially open-minded women?

And, of course, it's more likely someone would date you in spite of you being a late bloomer, not because of it. Young women -- who are very desirable and blooming at their proper age, and generally less mature and more superficial than they will become as they age, who have a multitude of options their own age surrounding them AND opportunity to date older men who did not bloom late -- are simply not an easy bunch to target for someone with your 'stats'.

Who should I try to pursue? Who would have any interest in me at all?

 

I feel that I got screwed out of not being able to date in HS. I got screwed out of not being able to date when I was college age. Now I'm screwed out of not being able to date when I'm an adult.

 

No matter what age I was, women don't want to date me. So what the F am I supposed to do?

[Mme. Chaucer]

I feel that I got screwed out of not being able to date in HS. I got screwed out of not being able to date when I was college age. Now I'm screwed out of not being able to date when I'm an adult.

 

Oh, brother.

[MrNate 2.0]

Oh, brother.

 

You almost sound disappointed, Mme. Did you think this thread was going to be constructive?

[zengirl]

SD, The bottom line is that your success or failure is YOUR responsibility.

 

No one screwed you out of anything -- plenty of other people face adversity and overcome it everyday. Look at TW's attitude and he has an autism spectrum disorder --- if he can improve his social skills past you, then you can see it's NOT about luck, as he was dealt a plenty unlucky hand (no offense intended at all, TW). Plenty of people were.

 

The person restricting you from cultivating social skills --- and thus better success --- is YOU, by the restrictions you're putting on yourself, the laziness (transactional mindset, not wanting to approach people, not wanting to put in effort unless results are guaranteed, etc) you're demonstrating, and the willfully ignoring all the suggestions on how to improve maturity and social skills/capital.

 

We've told you how dating & sex works. You just don't like it.

[pteromom]

I try not to think of the future. The very thought that I could be exactly where I am now, five years from now is horrible. Frankly, I'd rather be dead then go through five more years of this.

 

So is your only measure of success in your life whether you are dating or not?

 

You are going to college, right? You have a job, right? You have got your own place now, right?

 

You are taking steps forward, and as long as you continue doing that, you won't be in the same place in five years.

 

You can't control whether women want to date you or not. But there are parts of your life that you DO control. You control the quality of your life, and what you do with it. There is more to life than a romantic relationship (TRUST me, there are many benefits to being single, and many challenges to being married!!!! It's not all roses and love and sex and romance.)

 

So find things that light you up. Find something you are passionate about EXCEPT finding love. Volunteering, hobbies, a club to join... yes, it's cliche advice, but it's cliche for a reason- because it DOES add meaning to life to have these things.

 

And READ. Read books about how to build your self-esteem. How to talk to girls. How to be more optimistic. Philosophy. Religion/Spirituality. Psychology. Books that will expand your mind and help you realize your worth. (And as a side-benefit, make you more interesting to women.)

 

You are right that you can't MAKE someone like you. But you can work on yourself to make yourself someone more likely to be likeable.

 

Your life is yours, and what you do with it is your responsibility. And if you are in the exact same place five years from now, it will be entirely your fault.

 

You can sit there at your desk and mope that life is unfair and that none of the advice in this thread makes sense or applies to you, or you can get off your butt and say "what the heck, it's worth a try" and just try. You've gotten some great advice... so turn off your over-analyzing and negative thoughts and just try it!

[Meeks7]

See, what bugs me is that if I want to get a GF, I have to be the one who approaches. If I want to make friends, I have to be the one who approaches.

 

You just don't want to do any work whatsoever, do you?

 

For a guy claiming to want a girlfriend as bad as you are, you sure do everything in your power (i.e. by doing NOTHING) to assure your continued singleness.

 

Newsflash: a relationship is HARD WORK! I'm dating my current GF 3 months now, and yes, the first two weeks were great, awesome. But now the "infatuation" stage is over with, and we have to actually communicate with each other. Arugments arise. Compromise takes place. Forgiveness is issued. Proactive thinking and planning helps to avoid some potential issues.

 

Clearly, you lack the social skills to put yourself in a position to date. Instead of addressing these issues by tackling real life head on, you continue to sit idle, complaining on loveshack, allowing fear to get the worst of you and letting your youth slip away.

 

Edit: You ask too many questions. Less thinking, more doing.

[ThaWholigan]

So is your only measure of success in your life whether you are dating or not?

 

From what I remember of his past posts, he has indicated that his one big passion in life is to have a girlfriend.

[JuneJulySeptember]

So is your only measure of success in your life whether you are dating or not?

 

 

If you were a 30 year old virgin, you'd be crying about it too! lol

[pteromom]

From what I remember of his past posts, he has indicated that his one big passion in life is to have a girlfriend.

 

Wow. I hope the fantasy of what life will be like with a girlfriend isn't overblown so much that when he gets one, he is disappointed.

[Teknoe]

A lot of the people in here will tell you they are unhappy, they will swear to you they want to be with someone. Trick is, don't buy that for one second! They are lying to themselves and therefore lying to you also.

 

In reality, they are happy being single, they are happy not meeting someone, they are happy at not being successful at dating and if you look closely enough, you will see they do any and everything in the power to make sure it stays that way no matter how much you or anyone else tries to show / help / advise / convince them otherwise.

 

How do I know this?

 

Ignore what they say and look at their action (or lack there of)...

 

They come to the "Dating" forum to commiserate with people who think, feel, believe like they do and to feel better about themselves they have to wallow around in self pity, complain, b1tch, moan, blame and paint the entire opposite gender black.

 

This makes them happy, this is what they live for, this is what they want and there is nothing you or I can do that is going to change them.

 

Otherwise, if they really wanted to meet someone or be successful at dating they would actually do something about it like.... Deal with their own failings, shortcomings, look in the mirror and change their methods, outlook, attitude, approach to dating and the other gender and actually ask people out.

 

Gibson nailed it. Look at SD's actions (or lack thereof), not his words. Clear he's adamant on doing nothing so nothing ever changes.

 

It's very sad to witness. I hope he gets the help he needs, but the problem is, he doesn't want help. He wants to sit in his boat and enjoy his self-pity party.

[ThaWholigan]

Wow. I hope the fantasy of what life will be like with a girlfriend isn't overblown so much that when he gets one, he is disappointed.

I advocated that he discover other passions, or goals and ambitions that he may want for himself. No dice so far. One of the sole reasons why my virginity isn't a big deal to me is because I have a lot of friends, a potential career, skills I have acquired (Liam Neeson lol) and big ambitions. Finding love figures somewhere in there, but I see that as a side effect of having an expansive life.

[Teknoe]

Wow. I hope the fantasy of what life will be like with a girlfriend isn't overblown so much that when he gets one, he is disappointed.

 

WHEN?

 

If he doesn't change, he'll never have a girlfriend. I'm not saying that to be mean, I'm rooting for him, but right now he's been living a life of SELF SABOTAGE. Until he changes, no girl will ever be attracted to him.

[Teknoe]

I advocated that he discover other passions, or goals and ambitions that he may want for himself. No dice so far. One of the sole reasons why my virginity isn't a big deal to me is because I have a lot of friends, a potential career, skills I have acquired (Liam Neeson lol) and big ambitions. Finding love figures somewhere in there, but I see that as a side effect of having an expansive life.

 

LOL at the Liam Neeson aside. Very clever. I'm gonna have to steal that...

 

Yup, many of us have encouraged SD to develop other areas of interest. No dice. He only wants a GF, but he's expecting her to come to him with him doing minimal work. Yeah... good luck with that.

 

I think we all know our posts will never change him directly, but we're probably all hoping somewhere deep deep DEEP down, our posts will slip into the deep cracks of his heart, and in a moment of real life epiphany, everything will "come together" for him in that "AH HA" moment.

 

We're just planting the seed.

 

But only a real life dramatic experience can water it and bring it out of SD.

 

Will our words directly change him for the better? No.

 

Might our words indirectly seep into his subconscious someday along with a major real life event? It's not impossible.

 

And I think that's what we (i.e. me, Tha, Zen, MC, etc.) are hoping for whenever we post in response to SD. All these posts will accumulate and eventually seep into his subconscious. At least he won't be able to say "BUT NO ONE EVER TOLD ME HAVING FRIENDS WAS IMPORTANT!"

[pteromom]

I advocated that he discover other passions, or goals and ambitions that he may want for himself. No dice so far. One of the sole reasons why my virginity isn't a big deal to me is because I have a lot of friends, a potential career, skills I have acquired (Liam Neeson lol) and big ambitions. Finding love figures somewhere in there, but I see that as a side effect of having an expansive life.

 

And all that stuff WILL help you in the dating world too. Trust me. The silly crap that 20 year old girls value falls away, and everything you do to make yourself a more well-balanced person with a lot to offer will increase your opportunities.

[pteromom]

WHEN?

 

If he doesn't change, he'll never have a girlfriend. I'm not saying that to be mean, I'm rooting for him, but right now he's been living a life of SELF SABOTAGE. Until he changes, no girl will ever be attracted to him.

 

Not necessarily. There are lots of insecure girls who are just the female equivalent, thinking they will never find someone because they aren't good enough. It's only a matter of time until he runs into one.

[Teknoe]

Not necessarily. There are lots of insecure girls who are just the female equivalent, thinking they will never find someone because they aren't good enough. It's only a matter of time until he runs into one.

 

 

Please, do not encourage SD that it's possible for him to DO NOTHING and find a GF, even a super insecure one.

 

And he shouldn't have to settle for a crappy GF.

 

He's better than that.

 

But he has to do the hard work to improve himself first.

[pteromom]

 

But only a real life dramatic experience can water it and bring it out of SD.

 

I get what you are saying, but I don't necessarily agree. I mean, he's made some progress in his life himself, so he isn't incapable. The only thing holding him back is his own insecurity.

 

The key for him is to keep taking steps forward, even if they are tiny steps. He has to make himself do something, even if he doesn't see the logic in it or thinks he will fail. He has to learn to let go and just take the next step. If he can keep doing that, he will soon be able to look back and see he's come a long way.

[pteromom]

Please, do not encourage SD that it's possible for him to DO NOTHING and find a GF, even a super insecure one.

 

And he shouldn't have to settle for a crappy GF.

 

He's better than that.

 

But he has to do the hard work to improve himself first.

 

LOL!

 

I do agree with you. A relationship between two highly insecure people who are scared to learn new things would be a disaster. But then a disaster like that may just be the real life dramatic experience that would change him