Identity, Forgiveness, and Other Musings

[verhrzn]

I've been doing a lot of musing today, brought on partially by comments in another thread (yes, I post a lot of threads: ignore as needed), and... events, of today.

 

I also picked up a self-help book called "Why You're Not Married (Yet.)" Usually I loathe dating self-help books, and scan them for the eye-rolling and rage-reading potential. But this one.... made some chilly sense. (And was pretty hilarious. Always a bonus.)

 

The first chapter I read discussed how, you're probably still single because, well, you're kind of a b*tch. Now like you (me) go around intentionally hurting people, but that you use anger/bitterness as a kind of shield, as a form of self-protection.

 

She accurately predicted, for example, that I have a need to be right, and that I approach encounters with men as a sort of dare... Rejecting them before they can reject me, for example. What really got me is when she correctly predicted that the idea that I should be nice, that sweetness should be my default mode when dealing with men and that I should work my attitude around their insecurities, would piss me off. And boy, does it.

 

It just really bothers me, that I would need to be sweet and nice. I think it's because I've built my identity around the idea that being right gives me power, power that other people (especially men) are trying to take away from me. And by having power, I have strength. I think I equate anger/bitterness with strength.

 

But the book suggests that real strength is actually being able to have compassion in the face of things that hurt us. Being able to forgive another person for being human, even when they really fvk us up. The book says that by forgiving, you'll lose the bitterness. You won't need a shield anymore.

 

The thing I struggle with is, by forgiving people, and by being sweet even in the face of rejection/mistreatment, aren't I just allowing people to hurt me? How can you be sweet and forgiving while also drawing boundaries that this is not an acceptable behavior?

 

And how does one act sweet, when I've built my identity around my "b*tchness"? Arguing and "being right" is a lot of where my passion comes from. Without it, I'm just a... blob. How can you be passionate about forgiveness?? How can I find the strength to look at guys who have hurt me and be compassionate instead of angry? Anger is just so much easier to maintain, and so much more... exhilarating.

 

Thoughts?

[betterdeal]

Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?

[verhrzn]

Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?

 

Can't I be both?

 

More accurately, my big fear is always: being happy for the wrong reasons. Like, I'm happy because I'm ignorant of some truth. I would never want to be happy because I'm unaware I'm married to a cheater, for example.

[Exit]

Figuring out where to draw the line is something I struggle with as well. But as to your question about how can you be sweet and forgiving while not turning into a doormat, obviously there are some behaviors that deserve forgiveness and others that don't. Nobody is saying get cheated on and keep smiling about it. But if you find yourself needing to be right in every single difficult situation that arises in a relationship, well then, to quote the book, that's why you're not married yet.

 

Sounds like an interesting book. I had my heart ripped apart by a girl who used her anger and bitterness as a shield. She was like Fort Knox when it came to getting past her anger and trying to actually work through our issues. And that whole mindset of trying to dump your man before you get dumped sounds all too familiar in my dating experiences as well.

 

Frankly I agree that real strength comes from knowing when to be gentle and accepting, not just "strong" all the time. My ex's desire to constantly be strong, constantly be right, and never face up to anything, was actually her biggest weakness in my eyes. And like the book says, now continuing her chain of relationships in which I was just a single link, she doesn't get married, she gets mad, she gets into "end the relationship" mode, and she gets a new boyfriend. She might feel "right" when she makes up in the morning but she doesn't feel married. But if your ultimate goal is to find that one person you can stay with and not be dating for the rest of your life, then it's time for some adjustments.

 

I've liked that "do you want to be right or happy" logic since I first heard it along time ago. Does being right keep us warm at night, the satisfaction of knowing we never backed down, or does knowing that you loved someone enough to work through an issue together feel better? Being right all the time can have a certain addictive quality to it and can be hard to break. What if you find yourself in a situation when you know 100% you are right, what if someone you really care about wants to argue about what color the sky is, can you ever love someone enough to just let them be right?

[d'Arthez]

The thing I struggle with is, by forgiving people, and by being sweet even in the face of rejection/mistreatment, aren't I just allowing people to hurt me? How can you be sweet and forgiving while also drawing boundaries that this is not an acceptable behavior?

No, you are not allowing people to hurt you again and again. Because you will know who they are, and what they do, and how to take their words. You won't get as heavily involved with people who maltreat you. When you don't have any expectations beyond what you can expect from people their actions won't affect you much.

Example: once you have identified a person as being verbally abusive, and he starts abusing you, you immediately know it is not you that has the problem, but him. Consequently, his words will mean next to nothing to you. Naturally of course, you'd try your best avoiding getting in situations with this particular person, since he does not contribute much in a positive way to your life.

 

And how does one act sweet, when I've built my identity around my "b*tchness"?

B*tchiness is a term that is often taken to mean "being abrasive, rude, putting people down, etc.". I don't think you are that kind of b*tch. Rather you come across as a person, who sticks up for her beliefs, and is willing to argue her beliefs strongly. That is one of the reasons why you struggle to pretend to be what you are not. That a lot of people confuse type 1 b*tchiness with type 2, does not mean that all b*tchiness is bad.

 

There is nothing wrong with a woman telling her boyfriend who has just thrown up after getting himself stuffed with way too much alcohol, that he should clean his own mess. Rather, it is an attractive feature of her (though I must admit I have been such a bf on a couple of occasions - but I did clean up my own mess, and rightly so). Just because men have d*cks, does not make them superior or more entitled to things than women - though most men still believe otherwise.

 

How can you be passionate about forgiveness??

You don't have to be passionate about forgiveness. Forgive and move on. And don't let it affect you, don't let yourself get into the same situation again and again.

 

How can I find the strength to look at guys who have hurt me and be compassionate instead of angry?

By realizing that they are not wholly aware of the consequences of their actions. By knowing that they have behaved in an unbecoming matter, you will not let it affect you as much as you would. If you know a guy is an a**hole, his criticisms of you mean a lot less than, when you know the guy to be genuinely caring about you. In the former case, you know that the guy is projecting his issues on you. In the latter case, you know it is time for some introspection, and to see whether the guy has a fair point.

 

I know you have been introspecting a lot about the comments these awful idiots have made. For you the major concern is where to draw the line - what is unreasonable criticism, and what is criticism you should take aboard. Perhaps, when you get some criticism from people, rather than asking "is this true", you should be asking yourself "why the bleep is he telling me this"?

[Mack05]

I've been doing a lot of musing today, brought on partially by comments in another thread (yes, I post a lot of threads: ignore as needed), and... events, of today.

 

I also picked up a self-help book called "Why You're Not Married (Yet.)" Usually I loathe dating self-help books, and scan them for the eye-rolling and rage-reading potential. But this one.... made some chilly sense. (And was pretty hilarious. Always a bonus.)

 

The first chapter I read discussed how, you're probably still single because, well, you're kind of a b*tch. Now like you (me) go around intentionally hurting people, but that you use anger/bitterness as a kind of shield, as a form of self-protection.

 

She accurately predicted, for example, that I have a need to be right, and that I approach encounters with men as a sort of dare... Rejecting them before they can reject me, for example. What really got me is when she correctly predicted that the idea that I should be nice, that sweetness should be my default mode when dealing with men and that I should work my attitude around their insecurities, would piss me off. And boy, does it.

 

It just really bothers me, that I would need to be sweet and nice. I think it's because I've built my identity around the idea that being right gives me power, power that other people (especially men) are trying to take away from me. And by having power, I have strength. I think I equate anger/bitterness with strength.

 

But the book suggests that real strength is actually being able to have compassion in the face of things that hurt us. Being able to forgive another person for being human, even when they really fvk us up. The book says that by forgiving, you'll lose the bitterness. You won't need a shield anymore.

 

The thing I struggle with is, by forgiving people, and by being sweet even in the face of rejection/mistreatment, aren't I just allowing people to hurt me? How can you be sweet and forgiving while also drawing boundaries that this is not an acceptable behavior?

 

And how does one act sweet, when I've built my identity around my "b*tchness"? Arguing and "being right" is a lot of where my passion comes from. Without it, I'm just a... blob. How can you be passionate about forgiveness?? How can I find the strength to look at guys who have hurt me and be compassionate instead of angry? Anger is just so much easier to maintain, and so much more... exhilarating.

 

Thoughts?

 

I completely agree with forgiveness. This clip is a great illustration ->

 

My ex is pretty much what you describe above (not sure if she see's this in herself or not). She can't admit to being wrong or accept her flaws. I am working on my way for forgiveness towards her. I understand her horrible behaviours stem from a terrible childhood and she is essentially her father without her actually seeing it. I will move on with my life in positivity and peace. With a willingness to learn and emotionally grow. I will end up in a great place. With joy in my heart. With a special family/friends and in future a beautiful wife.

 

She will continue being who she is, picking the wrong types of guys, blaming them when it inevitably goes wrong. Living her life in pure and total utter denial. She will end up lonely or with a total bas&&^^. She will be full of bitterness for the rest of her life, blaming everyone but herself for her predicament. Unlike me, she has a complete unwillingness to ever forgive the people that have hurt her. It's why she is the bitter negative bitchy person she is..

 

Prefer the path I choose to be honest

Edited May 31, 2012 by Mack05

[xxoo]

The thing I struggle with is, by forgiving people, and by being sweet even in the face of rejection/mistreatment, aren't I just allowing people to hurt me? How can you be sweet and forgiving while also drawing boundaries that this is not an acceptable behavior?

 

FYI, I'm speaking here about mild to moderate mistreatments, like a mean spirited comment, or laughing at me, or otherwise hurting my feelings.

 

How I handle it differs outwardly and inwardly. Outwardly, I might look quizzical, like "what just happened here?". Or, caught off guard, I might get defensive and zing back, but later reflect and see what happened.

 

Inwardly, I have a heartsunk feeling, or a defensive feeling, and after I examine that, I get to an understanding of "ok, I can't trust this person". That's when I consciously change my interaction, to keep it at a level where they can't hurt me.

 

I'll laugh off small attempts to get my dander up, and change the subject to something very neutral. I'll excuse myself and go talk to someone else, or just leave. If it is a tricky relationship for me, I'll think ahead and have planned responses to defuse predictable jabs. A bored "This again?" can be very effective in a variety of situations. A stronger, "We aren't having that conversation again" is sometimes needed. It enforces your boundary without conflict.

 

Mostly, though, after the initial shock of "wow, I didn't see that coming!" wears off, I see it as a reflection of the other person--and not me. I can forgive, because I can see where they are (and aren't) on their personal journey. They aren't there yet. They are struggling. I'm farther, and I can rise above. I'm glad I'm not where they are. Life is much happier and more peaceful a bit farther up the road where I am

[verhrzn]

I dunno. Every time I feel like I've made a step, I just get knocked back. All seems really pointless.

[d'Arthez]

I dunno. Every time I feel like I've made a step, I just get knocked back. All seems really pointless.

You'll get there. You are starting to make more and more sense of things, and of your experiences in life. The occasional setback is par for the course on the road to self-insight.

 

Just don't give up on yourself.

[SpiralOut]

I dunno. Every time I feel like I've made a step, I just get knocked back. All seems really pointless.

 

Don't give up.

 

I can relate to your original post since I have walls up and I struggle to draw boundaries. Also I have trouble forgiving people.

 

I'm wondering if you are having a problem with the word "sweet." I don't think you necessarily need to be sweet; that's not something that fits everyone's personality. Look at Kelly Cutrone; she's anything but sweet. More like blunt and honest, but not in an angry/bitter way, it's more of a confident way and she doesn't try to hurt feelings on purpose. She's sort of a role model for me. My point being, it can help to find people in your life who have the qualities you're looking for. Watch the tricks they use to deal with difficult people.