'the other man'...

[cccccc81]

Hi, so I've been on a rollercoaster for far too long now and need some advice from people who don't know the people involved...

 

I was in a marriage for about 8 years, the last year became difficult as we had become very different people, and during this time I became very close with a colleague. She was everything my wife wasn't at the time - similar to me, gorgeous - I constantly wished I had met her before my wife. In fact, before we realised we had something, people had asked if we were married! We have an amazing chemistry together. We respected boundaries but became very close, and eventually it became a proper affair, and I now class her as a girlfriend...The sex was amazing, we connected really well emotionally, intellectually and physically - the only problem we have ever had in our relationship was the jealousy on both sides.

 

We had a conversation about 3 months ago during which potential remarriage was discussed. I was dismissive of it, but afterwards realised that actually, for the right person, I could. This was my sign that my current marriage had to end, I mentioned the idea of seperation that weekend, and after a messy couple of weeks, we seperated. My heart clearly wasn't there any more.

 

So, for the last couple of months, I've been a single 'other man'. And as you can imagine, it has been horrendous. My gf has been unsure of what she wants, and trying to decide whether to leave or not. Her unhappiness at home has got far worse over this time, and she constantly is hiding, avoiding her husband etc. It seemed like she had made a decision, and was just waiting to be brave enough to leave. After she had a couple of drinks recently, I asked her if that was the case, and she said yes.

 

Although - what she wants to do seems to change daily. She is in two minds about burying her head in the sand and living a lie for the kids and keeping current situation, doesn't want to upset husband, but also wants to confirm her feelings. She says she loves me but doesn't know if she loves her husband. She has booked a weekend away for the two of them so that she can explore this more. She is an independent woman, so I fully see that she wants to make her own mind up, and I respect that. She also doesn't want to chuck away her marriage (7 years) without being fully sure, which I appreciate. She does however acknowledge that it will probably end at some point.

 

However, she has still had sex with her husband a few times (that I know of) over the 2.5 months. We had an agreement after the first time that we wouldn't have sex until she decided who she wants, as she did not want a deadline. Kind of backing off physically, but not emotionally. After a few weeks it started again between us, as she hadn't been with her husband. We then agreed that if it did happen, she would tell me.

 

Since then, she has slept with him twice (that I know of) and I've had to ask to find out. First time, she had lied about something else (time home as she was still out), and I put it down to drink. This morning, I found out that she did a couple of days ago, by asking her. I'm embarrased to say I got very angry, and called her a slut - not so much about the sex (although that disgusted me), but that she didn't tell me like she promised she would. She says that she feels obliged to, and that she only does it to keep up the pretence of a marriage until she is sure she wants to leave. I certainly remember my wife saying no though!!!

 

So, we're in a horrible situation where when jealousy is removed (on either side), it is the most amazing relationship. We are so similar, share so many activities and experiences, and have a chemistry that lots of people noticed before we did. But, the jealousy is now tearing me apart. It feels like it is so close, but so far away.

 

I've probably missed some really important parts to this, but it'd be great if anyone can share some advice / experiences on this. Should I just wait (the days seem very long at the moment, so I'm sure this will be over soon)? Or, is she having her cake and eating it? Should I put a deadline in place? Am I clinging onto false hope?

 

Also, am I right in thinking it is cheating on me (it sure feels like it!) ?

 

Lastly, if I stick with her, is there any tips to make it tolerable and reduce the jealousy stuff?

Edited May 31, 2012 by cccccc81

[woinlove]

Hi, so I've been on a rollercoaster for far too long now and need some advice from people who don't know the people involved...

 

I was in a marriage for about 8 years, the last year became difficult as we had become very different people, and during this time I became very close with a colleague. She was everything my wife wasn't at the time - similar to me, gorgeous - I constantly wished I had met her before my wife. In fact, before we realised we had something, people had asked if we were married! We have an amazing chemistry together. We respected boundaries but became very close, and eventually it became a proper affair, and I now class her as a girlfriend...The sex was amazing, we connected really well emotionally, intellectually and physically - the only problem we have ever had in our relationship was the jealousy on both sides.

 

We had a conversation about 3 months ago during which potential remarriage was discussed. I was dismissive of it, but afterwards realised that actually, for the right person, I could. This was my sign that my current marriage had to end, I mentioned the idea of seperation that weekend, and after a messy couple of weeks, we seperated. My heart clearly wasn't there any more.

 

So, for the last couple of months, I've been a single 'other man'. And as you can imagine, it has been horrendous. My gf has been unsure of what she wants, and trying to decide whether to leave or not. Her unhappiness at home has got far worse over this time, and she constantly is hiding, avoiding her husband etc. It seemed like she had made a decision, and was just waiting to be brave enough to leave. After she had a couple of drinks recently, I asked her if that was the case, and she said yes.

 

However, she has still had sex with her husband a few times (that I know of) over the 2.5 months. We had an agreement after the first time that we wouldn't have sex until she decided who she wants, as she did not want a deadline. Kind of backing off physically, but not emotionally. After a few weeks it started again between us, as she hadn't been with her husband. We then agreed that if it did happen, she would tell me.

 

Since then, she has slept with him twice (that I know of) and I've had to ask to find out. First time, she had lied about something else (time home as she was still out), and I put it down to drink. This morning, I found out that she did a couple of days ago, by asking her. I'm embarrased to say I got very angry, and called her a slut - not so much about the sex (although that disgusted me), but that she didn't tell me like she promised she would. She says that she feels obliged to, and that she only does it to keep up the pretence of a marriage until she is sure she wants to leave. I certainly remember my wife saying no though!!!

 

So, we're in a horrible situation where when jealousy is removed (on either side), it is the most amazing relationship. We are so similar, share so many activities and experiences, and have a chemistry that lots of people noticed before we did. But, the jealousy is now tearing me apart. It feels like it is so close, but so far away.

 

I've probably missed some really important parts to this, but it'd be great if anyone can share some advice / experiences on this. Should I just wait (the days seem very long at the moment, so I'm sure this will be over soon)? Or, is she having her cake and eating it? Should I put a deadline in place?

 

Also, am I right in thinking it is cheating on me (it sure feels like it!) ?

 

Is it cheating? It is deceiving you if you have an agreement so that you are to expect she is not having sex with her H unless she tells you. It is deception and betrayal and that is what hurts so much. Basically, you have set up conditions where a person who is cheating on their spouse now has some reason she might want to lie to you too - because you have an agreement that requires her to act in a certain way (no sex with H) and she might at times want to act differently (sex with H). Is she in counselling? What about you? I have never cheated on anyone, but from observing people who do, I think they have real work to do in order to become the type of person who can be open and honest, even when there is something at stake with their own desires and wishes.

 

If you feel this is really painful (and it sounds like it is) then, yes, I think you need to do something to change that. Setting a deadline would be one change, if you know you can stick with it and walk away if it doesn't result in a change that you are happy with. You can't change how the MOW will behave, but you can control your own choices and actions.

[Stoneman70]

I know how you feel about not wanting her to have sex with her husband...

 

I was that way too. I was jealous of him, constantly compared myself, told her to divorce him a few times...but then would feel guilty. I then tried to make her jealous by saying other women had hit on me.

 

It all boild down to the fact that i wanted s all to myself..

[carhill]

Here's my .02 as a fOM and fMM:

 

Should I just wait (the days seem very long at the moment, so I'm sure this will be over soon)?

Living a full life is healthier than waiting, IMO. If she ends up being in that full life, she does; if other, other.

 

Or, is she having her cake and eating it?

I recall, as a MM, feeling more 'powerful' when I had a choice between two women. Once we split up, I lost my 'power' and the decision turned completely on whether the OW would 'choose' between her on-again, off-again BF and myself. She chose the former. I'm single.

 

Should I put a deadline in place?

I'd suggest putting one in for yourself, with milestones of action for her, like filing for divorce, separate domiciles, etc.

 

Am I clinging onto false hope?

Unknown. The only way to know for sure is to see it to the end. I can say that doing so provided myself with life-enriching closure.

 

 

 

Also, am I right in thinking it is cheating on me (it sure feels like it!) ?

If you are in an overtly agreed upon monogamous and exclusive committed relationship and the person abrogates those parameters without discussion or notification, that's cheating, IMO. I don't think this dynamic approaches cheating, in the traditional meaning of the term.

 

Lastly, if I stick with her, is there any tips to make it tolerable and reduce the jealousy stuff?

Live life for you and date other women. Enjoy your single years. Life is short. Trust me.

 

If this is difficult to resolve, I suggest IC. Such counseling can help you clarify *your* path and make healthier decisions about it. She may be part of your path; she may not. Clarity will help you, IMO. Good luck.

[Radagast]

I've probably missed some really important parts to this, but it'd be great if anyone can share some advice / experiences on this. Should I just wait (the days seem very long at the moment, so I'm sure this will be over soon)? Or, is she having her cake and eating it? Should I put a deadline in place? Am I clinging onto false hope?

 

Also, am I right in thinking it is cheating on me (it sure feels like it!) ?

 

Lastly, if I stick with her, is there any tips to make it tolerable and reduce the jealousy stuff?

 

It's many years since I was an "other man" but reading your story brought two questions to my mind: if she does not follow through and leave her husband, how will you feel about having left your wife? Will you feel betrayed by her breach of the agreement and that you left your wife "for nothing" or will you still feel you made the right decision about your marriage?

 

And, how much of your identity is currently invested in being or becoming her partner? Do you feel like a new person, full of potential, having left your marriage or is that all contingent on landing up with your girlfriend?

 

Why I ask is, I was in an analogous position myself a few years ago. I had been married and had an affair with a single woman. We decided we wanted to be together and each had a number of things to do to make that possible. For me, the big one was leaving my marriage and filing for divorce, for her there were several matters including leaving her job and moving. As it turned out I was ready several months before she was, and I was left in a similar position to you, waiting for the woman I loved to join me.

 

In my case, I was happy to have left my marriage and even had it not been for my love at that point I would still have been grateful to have escaped. Knowing she was going to join me was a real bonus but had she not come I would not have regretted leaving my marriage. To me that was important, that I made a decision I thought was best irrespective of the decision she made to be with me. And also, I saw myself in a new light that wasn't just to do with being my love's partner. It was also about being free from my ex-wife and the roles and constraints of that marriage, to become authentically myself.

 

So I used the months before she came to expand myself and to get used to the new me. I set up a new home with my kids, I saw a lot more of my family and my friends, I enjoyed new hobbies and I found pleasure in my work again. And I spent time in counselling, individually and with my kids. So when she joined me she found a happy, fulfilled man with a full life that she was happy to be part of. She did not find me moping or lonely or bitter at the time she'd taken to join me. And also at that point I knew that even if things fell through from her side and she did not join me that I would be OK, my kids would be OK and life would still be better than it had been during my marriage, even if not as good as with my love in my life.

 

So I guess that would be my advice to you, based on what worked for me.

[cccccc81]

Hi all, great responses so far, thank you. I'd say that leaving my wife was positive - anybody who could contemplate remarrying, and in fact anybody who is at the stage that they could have an affair, is not truly in their marriage.

 

What I haven't been able to do is move forwards outside of relationships as much as I'd have liked, as it feels that every step forwards I take, something happens to trigger jealousy in the current situation which puts me back to where I started.

Any tips on managing the jealousy?

 

Also - 1 other question. It seems like her decision is more about whether she actually has a marriage or not, rather than choosing which man. She does seem to have realised that the practical stuff will get sorted (money, house etc), and has come up with a contingency for her husband to live at (his mums). She has also said she is concerned her weekend away with husband might "confirm the scary thought of marriage over" (her words) Is this something I should put a deadline on?

 

Finally, from what I've said so far, I guess the one question I really want answered, but only she can, is am I being played?

Edited May 31, 2012 by cccccc81
bolded questions, hopefully to make responses easier!

[Owl]

If you don't put a deadline on it...odds are you'll be where you're at right now for a very long time.

 

It doesn't ALWAYS go that way...but my long time posting here and on other forums has led to me to believe that unless there's pressure for change, she's going to sit on that fence for as long as she possibly can.

 

She needs to KNOW that you're not going to complacently sit there waiting for her forever. Otherwise she's going to stay right where she's at, enjoying the best of both worlds.

 

You need to insist on being her priority...or her past.

 

As far as 'being played'...it's always possible. You won't know until the situation is resolved, one way or another. One other reason to push for resolution sooner, rather than later.

[woinlove]

Are you being played? I think there are so many levels to being played. Usually one thinks of a stereotypical player who knows exactly what he or she is doing.

 

More typically, in triangle situations, it is more like the person doesn't even admit to themselves exactly what they are doing because they are deriving certain benefits from having two people serving their needs, but each is expecting something of them that they know they can't fully give, so they don't think about that too much. That makes it easier for them to say what you want to hear and they even think they mean it at the time. So, yes, they are using two people and they are making them think things that aren't true, but they are not the fully aware, calculating player either. A mismatch between words and actions can be one indicator of this behavior.

[Quiet Storm]

Why do you want to be with a cheater and liar?

 

Many OM/OW feel that their affair partner's cheating is situational and circumstantial. They feel that if the person were not in bad marriage, they would not be driven to cheat or lie.

 

This is not usually the case.

 

Cheating & lying are actions that reflect a person's true character. Not just how they are when they are in a bad marriage- but how they are.

 

Your GF does not just lie to her husband. She lies to you.

 

She is a conflict avoider. She did not want to face the end of her marriage, so she cheated. She does not want to tell you that she sleeps with her husband, so she omits and lies.

 

Life is full of lots of uncomfortable situations. There will be conflicts and crisis, disagreements and hard choices to make. Your GF will run and hide from these, because that is her true character. In the future, if she is unhappy with you, what do you think she will do? Come to you and discuss her feelings of unhappiness? Admit that something needs to change? Or will she get her needs fulfilled elsewhere?

 

Your jealously is a natural feeling to have, because you know deep down inside that she is not trustworthy. You can ignore that feeling and bury your head in the sand, like she does, or you can listen to what your gut feelings are trying to tell you.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Quiet Storm

[carhill]

She has also said she is concerned her weekend away with husband might "confirm the scary thought of marriage over" (her words) Is this something I should put a deadline on?

 

Watch the words stuff, in the sense of how emotion turns upon them. Words are carbon dioxide. People can say one thing for effect and do something completely different. It's consistent action over time which verifies words, fixing the nebulous gas into something more solid.

 

Now that you are D, beware of becoming her tampon. Disallow talk of her M. Your R, whatever it is with her, is the center of your and her dynamic. Her marriage is none of your concern nor interest. Be consistent on that point.

[Furious]

Perhaps, she is struggling with the reality of a future with you. Will you be a good step dad to her children...or if you may change your mind and then she would have broken up her family and be left alone, are possible things going through her mind.

 

You don't say if you have children of your own...and if you do, perhaps she is unsure of becoming a step mom.

[Happyface]

I would suggest that after 7 years, if she is the independent kind of woman you say, she already knows whether she loves her H or not.

 

I have heard all kinds of excuses for booking weekends away with the spouse during an A. I don't think hers sounds valid at all.

 

As for the element of jealousy, it will always be there. It will get more painful the deep you get involved with her. Eventually, if you really love her, it will make your life a living hell.

 

Happy Face

[2sunny]

I don't see good reason for her to leave.

 

Since she booked the vacation for her and hubby - I think it's safe to say that is her priority.

 

She's a cake eater - you are the willing victim of your choices... Based on handing her too much power.

 

Never settle!

[RickFox]

Nice to see OM's with similar experiences.

 

Are you being played? Oh yes, I believe you are (of course I'm jaded).

 

Reading your story, I see her telling you already exactly where you stand.

 

Is it right for you to be jealous? No, you have no right to be jealous, just as I had no right to be jealous. I told my xMW woman it's okay if you need to have sex with him, I understand but not so deep down, I was jealous. Jealous of the fact she slept with him at night, jealous that she was with him after our day was done....and I had no right, she was NOT mine. I remember seeing him trying to pull her close to her for a kiss when we were all out together and she slapped him away....I think I smiled broadly....she even said to me later "did you see me slap him away?"

 

In the end, it didn't matter, she ended up slapping me away and that's where I see you .... she's phasing you out.

 

I wish you all the best no matter how it turns out.

[pteromom]

I'm embarrased to say I got very angry, and called her a slut - not so much about the sex (although that disgusted me), but that she didn't tell me like she promised she would.

 

She is not a slut for sleeping with her husband. That's silly.

 

Also, am I right in thinking it is cheating on me (it sure feels like it!) ?

 

No, you are not right. She's cheating on her husband with you.

 

Lastly, if I stick with her, is there any tips to make it tolerable and reduce the jealousy stuff?

 

You have to realize she is married to him unless and until she isn't. This means she'll be sleeping with him, going away with him, laughing with him, raising kids with him, and doing all the things married people do with him. You are the affair, not the main relationship.

[stillwater]

Your situation sounds very similar to mine. I broke up with my long-time gf a few months after the A started. I wouldn't have done it if it weren't for MW (at least not at that time), but I don't regret it because it was something that needed to happen anyway.

 

Like you, I was jealous all the time, and by the end the relationship was basically a roller coaster where one week was good and then we wouldn't speak for a few days. She continued having sex with her H despite implying she wasn't. She would lie (mainly by omission) to me. She would tell me things that would not align with her actions. She seemed to have no problem living a double life. I eventually got sick of it and ended it, because I realized that if she could live the double life with me as the AP, she could do it with me as the H too.

 

Do I think you're getting played? As woinlove said, probably not in a manipulative sense. But I got the impression MW would have remained in the situation as long as she could, and she was never going to make a decision on her own. She was just waiting for someone to make the decision for her. Your MW could well be the same way.

 

Her story about going away for a weekend to figure things out raises my eyebrows. As far as I know, MW & H never went away for a weekend during the A except for family visits. Had she told me she was going away for some romantic weekend, I would have walked. You know full well she's going to be having sex with him, how does that make you feel? It sounds like she's basically telling you you're her backup plan.

 

Anyway, the short version is: your situation sounds a whole lot like mine, and mine ended in disaster. What I thought (based on her words) was going to be a short exit A, turned into a many month ordeal that ended with her right where she started. Be careful.

Edited June 1, 2012 by stillwater

[whichwayisup]

Only read your first opening post.

 

Okay, at least you ended things with your wife and knew it was time to get out of the marriage, kudos to you for doing that instead of continuing the A behind her back and staying married. Do you two have children?

 

Your MW (aka OW) hasn't told her husband anything. He probably has NO idea that she has one foot out the door. That is, if she's being honest with you. Her actions, so it seems, is like she is just having an affair with you and has no real intentions of ending her marriage. Life is continuing on, she IS having sex with her husband and it should be assumed she is either way because she is married and not committed to you. Either accept that aspect and put it out of your head or tell her goodbye (meaning absolutely NO sex and very minimal contact) until she files for divorce.

 

You will continue to be the OM in her life as long as you stick around. It's quite rare that BOTH affair partners leave their spouses for another. From what I've read here over the years it seems more like one person leaves and the other doesn't, so the A just continues on..Or it ends badly.

 

The choice really is yours. If you want her one day as your wife you need to end the A and tell her that you will be there when she divorces, but until then things have to end completely. Otherwise it'll just stay as an affair and it'll be harder for her to leave when she gets the best of both worlds.

 

Hope this helps.

[whichwayisup]

Hi all, great responses so far, thank you. I'd say that leaving my wife was positive - anybody who could contemplate remarrying, and in fact anybody who is at the stage that they could have an affair, is not truly in their marriage.

 

What I haven't been able to do is move forwards outside of relationships as much as I'd have liked, as it feels that every step forwards I take, something happens to trigger jealousy in the current situation which puts me back to where I started.

Any tips on managing the jealousy?

 

Also - 1 other question. It seems like her decision is more about whether she actually has a marriage or not, rather than choosing which man. She does seem to have realised that the practical stuff will get sorted (money, house etc), and has come up with a contingency for her husband to live at (his mums). She has also said she is concerned her weekend away with husband might "confirm the scary thought of marriage over" (her words) Is this something I should put a deadline on?

 

Finally, from what I've said so far, I guess the one question I really want answered, but only she can, is am I being played?

 

You were sure your marriage was over, therefore you left. She isn't as sure as you are/were. You do know it's unhealthy to pop out of a marriage and straight into another relationship and rebuild a new life with someone else, right? Haven't you grieved the loss of your own marriage? Dealt with your inlaws, extended family and all the emotions a D brings on? You also need time to adjust before hopping into another full on relationship, let alone marriage.

 

YES put a deadline on this otherwise you WILL be a sitting duck for a long time.

[Capris]

Hi cc,

 

First off, leaving your wife was a good dicision. No one deserves to be in a marriage that is over. It doesnt matter whether or not you are going to be with your OW.

 

That said, i took interest in your post mostly because of the jealousy. It reminds me of my A. Both over-jealousy people.

 

When it comes to jealousy, the person to blame, mostly (and im talking about extreme jealousy), is yourself. Jealousy is an "act" of insecurity, yet some other mentally conditions have been associated with jealousy, i advice you to search that section, just to be sure. ( i do have a medical condition that links with jealousy)

 

Besides that, i feel that being in a relationship where your partner is, by default, already cheating, is the main reason why we feel so jealous. I always thought that if me and my MM were ever to be together as a normal couple, a HUGE part of my jealousy would go away.

 

Tips about the jealousy? Depends really. I havent understand at what lenghts your jealousy has gone to. Is it "cute"?Or irrational?

I assume its not cute, if you are asking for help, but still, it would help to know what exactly you are jealous of.

 

If its irrational, i willl say again, once the irrational thought of jealousy pops in your mind, do something for yourself,something small that will make you more confident about yourself.

I can go on and on about stuff that would help, just need from you to tell me what kind of jealousy it is.

 

Take care! I would say, feel free to pm me, but i see you are new here and you need 100 posts to be able to pm.