They're filing!

[Drseussgrrl]

How great that you are an expert on their marriage.

[rosieisblue]

Ok? So, I'm still wondering if everything is great, you're so happy. he's healthier,etc,etc.

 

What brings you to this forum?

 

When I first came I wasn't sure they were going to divorce as no one had taken the step. Now I guess it's nice to let people know that it really can happen, you can be with teh one you love, you dont' have to be a secret.

[rosieisblue]

How great that you are an expert on their marriage.

 

We've talked a lot about things, especially when we first met. He would tell me all the things that were happening and about why he was unhappy.

 

She doesn't think it was bad, she thinks they were having normal marriage problems until she found out about the cheating. Now she says teh whole marriage was a joke, which hurts him because he sees it as a lot of good years together that they should remember and not destroy those memories.

[denise_xo]

I just don't see him as a serial cheater. It's not like he had a million affairs. He had one or two real affairs, years apart, and then a couple of ONS and some emotional affairs. I kow how bad that sounds but it was over 20 years that it happened and there were long stretches where it never happened. It all happened in the last 7 or 8 years of the marriage, when he started to be unhappy.

 

:confused:

 

That's... a lot.

 

Are you saying it happened over twenty years, or over a period of 7-8 years?

[Drseussgrrl]

I know. Poor guy. She sounds absolutely horrible. No wonder he cheated! She had it coming, that cold b*tch!

[2sure]

She sent me an email saying she wanted to meet and discuss what my role would be as a stepparent. That's when I made it clear that I wasn't going to be one, I was going to be their friend. She didn't like that, saying if we move in together I'll have to take them to activities and make sure they do homework and all that but I don't see that as my role. That's MM role. I will support him and help him but he's in charge of the kids, not me.

 

I have to tell you that when I initially read this thread, I thought to myself - good, at least this guy is leaving. Good for rosieblue.

 

But look - BOTH of you are still in lala land, putting yourselves first way way way before the kids. Him by creating unnecessary drama by involving you with his children before ...anything else. Its as though thats what HE wants...so that makes it OK for them. Way to casual approach will will lead to a shyte storm.

 

You by STILL not comprehending the very real fact of life that a parent with children is a PACKAGE DEAL. Thats why his wife emailed you - you think she wanted to? No doubt she realizes that if her children are going to be thought of at all as more than a days novelty or entertainment - then its her that has to do it.

 

Seriously. WTF

[rosieisblue]

:confused:

 

That's... a lot.

 

Are you saying it happened over twenty years, or over a period of 7-8 years?

 

I think he had one fling early on, then was good for years and years, then had the affair she found out about and it went downhill from there. She shut off, he needed love and attention and when she wouldn't give it he started looking around. He never really found what he was looking for until he met me. We connected right away and were in love nearly overnight. He's like a schoolboy around me sometimes and can't seem to get enough of me.

[skywriter]

When I first came I wasn't sure they were going to divorce as no one had taken the step. Now I guess it's nice to let people know that it really can happen, you can be with teh one you love, you dont' have to be a secret.

 

 

Right, and your age gap is significantly different if I remember. You are about 25 and he's in his forties.

 

I understand that AP's can actually have normal relationships. I've seen this happen in life. In fact, one of my closest friends and her H did this.

 

This doesn't mean I'd count on it ,necessarily.

 

So, if it isn't too personal, but, how does your family feel about this relationship?

[rosieisblue]

When I first came I wasn't sure they were going to divorce as no one had taken the step. Now I guess it's nice to let people know that it really can happen, you can be with teh one you love, you dont' have to be a secret.

 

 

Right, and your age gap is significantly different if I remember. You are about 25 and he's in his forties.

 

I understand that AP's can actually have normal relationships. I've seen this happen in life. In fact, one of my closest friends and her H did this.

 

This doesn't mean I'd count on it ,necessarily.

 

So, if it isn't too personal, but, how does your family feel about this relationship?

 

I do'nt think my mom is too happy, although she just wants me to be happy. My dad left her for another woman when I was a teenager and they don't talk to this day, or very little. I hated my stepparents so I understand how MM's kids feel, but after a year or so I accepted them, especially my stepfather.

 

I think everyone just wants me to be happy so although they probalby don't like how we met they see that I'm happy so are not making a big stink.

[frozensprouts]

I'm sure they were happy when they were young and first met but she got miserable and just checked out, didn't show him any love or affection for a long time. Maybe the first affair she found out about had an impact, I can see that, but it was seven years ago that she found that out and she said she wanted to rebuild so he stayed. And it was downhill from there. He just wasn't happy after that, really, and that's when he did much of his cheating.

 

 

 

rosie,

please think for a minute about what you just wrote...

 

why do you think she got miserable? what happened between the time they were happy and in love and when she was miserable? Do you know, or are you just going on what he says?

 

If I were you, I'd look more closely at his actions than his words...his words may be all love and happiness, but his actions in the past are of a guy who is very self centered and cowardly. He seems to have poor coping skills, and when things get "bad" ( whatever that means to him) he first response is to go out and look for something on the side. What has happened, beyond words, that would indicate to you that he has learned different coping skills?

 

I know things may seem wonderful now, but fast forward five years, when the weight of everyday life has set in and things get "bad" between you two ( by "bad' I mean whatever it is in his mind is justification for him to cheat...beware that his "bad" may have a very different meaning than yours)...

 

seven year ago, I expect his wife was saying similar things to what you are today...she was probably rationalizing and justifying his cheating because she, like you, loved him. She was willing to look the other way and ignore the signs that he has a fundamental flaw in his personality that causes him to see cheating as an acceptable method for solving his problems...he's a "flight" rather than "fight" type of guy. This is not a reflection on you, his wife or anyone other than him. He has NOT changed, and if I were you, one of the requirements that i would have for him if i were going to be in a relationship with him was that he get some very in depth counseling to find out why he makes the choices he does and so he can learn better ways to deal with issues in his relationships.

 

I wish you the best, and I hope that you are willing to open your mind to the idea that "love' can't change who a person is, only self knowledge can do that. You seem intelligent, and I would hope that your know every relationship goes through rough patches...what will he do when you two hit a rough patch and he can no longer turn the blame onto his ex wife, but rather he'll turn it onto you?

[rosieisblue]

And yes, there is an age gap of about 15 years but it doesn't bother either of us. His wife was older than him, actually, so age isn't a bit deal to him, either way.

 

We have a lot in common and we are sharing our interests with each other. I'm really into sports and he is getting in great shape by joining me jogging and stuff. his W isn't into that stuff. She is more into arts and culture and things like that.

[rosieisblue]

rosie,

please think for a minute about what you just wrote...

 

why do you think she got miserable? what happened between the time they were happy and in love and when she was miserable? Do you know, or are you just going on what he says?

 

If I were you, I'd look more closely at his actions than his words...his words may be all love and happiness, but his actions in the past are of a guy who is very self centered and cowardly. He seems to have poor coping skills, and when things get "bad" ( whatever that means to him) he first response is to go out and look for something on the side. What has happened, beyond words, that would indicate to you that he has learned different coping skills?

 

I know things may seem wonderful now, but fast forward five years, when the weight of everyday life has set in and things get "bad" between you two ( by "bad' I mean whatever it is in his mind is justification for him to cheat...beware that his "bad" may have a very different meaning than yours)...

 

seven year ago, I expect his wife was saying similar things to what you are today...she was probably rationalizing and justifying his cheating because she, like you, loved him. She was willing to look the other way and ignore the signs that he has a fundamental flaw in his personality that causes him to see cheating as an acceptable method for solving his problems...he's a "flight" rather than "fight" type of guy. This is not a reflection on you, his wife or anyone other than him. He has NOT changed, and if I were you, one of the requirements that i would have for him if i were going to be in a relationship with him was that he get some very in depth counseling to find out why he makes the choices he does and so he can learn better ways to deal with issues in his relationships.

 

I wish you the best, and I hope that you are willing to open your mind to the idea that "love' can't change who a person is, only self knowledge can do that. You seem intelligent, and I would hope that your know every relationship goes through rough patches...what will he do when you two hit a rough patch and he can no longer turn the blame onto his ex wife, but rather he'll turn it onto you?

 

I guess that's a 'which came first, the chicken or the egg' thing. Did he cheat because she was miserable to be around? Or was she miserable because he cheated. He says he never thought of cheating, other than that one mistake early on, until she became unbearable. And even after she found out and they talked a lot and said they'd make it work she didn't change much to make things better. She was still miserable.

 

He went to MC with her when she first kicked him out and all she did was bash him so he stopped going. He went once to IC but felt that the counselor was on her side and he wasn't getting the support he needed.

 

She still goes to IC, apparently, and wants him to pay for it but he gives her a lot of money so she has to pay out of that.

 

I do'nt think we have the same dynamic as he had with his wife, and I think this has been so ugly that he would never risk going through it again.

[rosieisblue]

How great that you are an expert on their marriage.

 

I'm not an expert, but I've been hearing about the marriage since shortly after we met and it really was not good. We went on a business trip for two weeks and she hardly called him or anything else. When he said he didn't want to stay another two weeks because he wanted to be home with his family she said no, stay, it's good for your career. That would be an entire month he would have been away and she didn't care. She had guests all summer and put her focus on that.

 

I saw how she was every day. He really tried, I know he did. He talked to me a lot about not wanting to break up his family and did what he could but between her ignoring him and him falling in love with me it was never going to last.

 

I'm sorry she got hurt I really am. But I do think she could have done more to show him she loved him and maybe he would have stayed. But she didn't. And he came to me.

[herenow]

You have said several times that "she asked him to leave", or "she kicked him out". Did it ever occur to you that the reason he never supposedly felt the sane about his other affair partners is because his wife never made those demands before?

 

You say he is a needy man. Maybe he claims you are so different than the others because, now that his wife has decided she wants him out, he has no one else to give him his much needed attention. Until of course he realizes that he is a free man and he can go get attention anywhere he wants.

 

This is a very common scenario. A man, or woman, latches on to the first person they can because they are unable to be alone. Then he or she finds the single world to be very exciting. Many times, it is friends and family that encourage the newly divorced to take time before committing again. Just saying it happens all the time.

[rosieisblue]

I get you love him Rosie.......but get your head out of the sand for your own self preservation.

 

But here's the thing: I'm glad he's told me about his neediness, I'm glad he's facing up to it. And I know about it so know that I have to give a bit more to make him feel secure. He's a great man, loving and kind, and if that makes him happy it's the same as him doing whatever makes me happy.

 

As far as his cheating, I don't know all the details, although his wife sent me an email outlining what she knew. It was a period of time, for maybe 6 or 7 years, and that was after she found out and was miserable after that and gave him nothing but her cold shoulder. I won't do that to him. He is a man who needs a lot of love. As far as kids I can see that he loves his children and gives so much to them and I can understand that it's a team thing, not just the wife doing it, which was part of thier problem. He worked all the time and when she stopped working about 7 years ago it became all about the kids. I work and have no plans on stopping so it will work as I will still have my own life. He admires that about me and it's one of the things that drove them apart: she stopped working and had nothing to talk about.

[rosieisblue]

You have said several times that "she asked him to leave", or "she kicked him out". Did it ever occur to you that the reason he never supposedly felt the sane about his other affair partners is because his wife never made those demands before?

 

You say he is a needy man. Maybe he claims you are so different than the others because, now that his wife has decided she wants him out, he has no one else to give him his much needed attention. Until of course he realizes that he is a free man and he can go get attention anywhere he wants.

 

This is a very common scenario. A man, or woman, latches on to the first person they can because they are unable to be alone. Then he or she finds the single world to be very exciting. Many times, it is friends and family that encourage the newly divorced to take time before committing again. Just saying it happens all the time.

 

I don't think that will happen. After she kicked him out I was still with my boyfriend and I remember him saying he was out with friends one night in a bar and he knew he couldn't do the whole singles thing, the whole dating thing, it wasn't for him. He wanted me and he waited for me. And I eventually was free to be with him. And we've been together every since, other than the two times I ended it breifly when the kids got too much for me.

 

I don't think he latched on to me, I think he really wanted me but didn't want to pressure me.

 

And she kicked him out because he was honest with her and told her he had feelings for me, that it wasn't just sex. That was it for her, although she did want him to come home for a bit but gave up after awhile.

[whichwayisup]

Why did she have to kick him out, why didn't he just LEAVE. Why wait for her to make that final decision? Your MM is passive and has no spine, no guts.

 

The kids are having a hard time but he's doing everything he can to make sure they're ok.

 

So how is meeting his kid(s) so soon helping? They need to adjust and get used to life without the family under one roof. Do you not see it's TOO SOON for you to be around his child? At least for now the younger one?

 

This whole situation is messed up. Why the rush to blend the families? They aren't even officially divorced yet.

[whichwayisup]

I just don't see him as a serial cheater. It's not like he had a million affairs. He had one or two real affairs, years apart, and then a couple of ONS and some emotional affairs. I kow how bad that sounds but it was over 20 years that it happened and there were long stretches where it never happened. It all happened in the last 7 or 8 years of the marriage, when he started to be unhappy.

 

So, remember when he gets unhappy, clams up and doesn't communicate his needs, he takes the easy way out and cheats. Either physically or emotionally with someone else. I hope for your sake this guy SEEKS counselling to fix himself and learns how to communicate with you if he is unhappy or feels his needs aren't being met. Otherwise you will find yourself the 'betrayed spouse' and get a taste of what his wife has been through.

[rosieisblue]

Why did she have to kick him out, why didn't he just LEAVE. Why wait for her to make that final decision? Your MM is passive and has no spine, no guts.

 

 

 

So how is meeting his kid(s) so soon helping? They need to adjust and get used to life without the family under one roof. Do you not see it's TOO SOON for you to be around his child? At least for now the younger one?

 

This whole situation is messed up. Why the rush to blend the families? They aren't even officially divorced yet.

 

We were talking about a future together a few months after we met but because I was living with my bf and he had his family we wanted to take it slow and do it our way. When she found out she blew it all out of the water. She called my bf and told him, she gave MM a couple of days to sort himself out but he didn't end it completley with me (we work together so we talked alot during those three days) so she kicked him out. I took longer to leave my bf as we had been together almost five years, more than four of them good, so it was a tough decision, but in the end I loved MM and wanted to be with him, so me and my bf split. We tried, though. We went on vacation to work things out but me and MM kept texting and then I ended it with MM and tried to make it work but after a month and a half it was obvious we were in love and our other relatioships weren't going to work.

 

As far as the kids it's his call. They're his kids. If he thinks they're ready then he's their father. His W says she's fine with it, has even encouraged it, and had told the kids to be nice to me.

 

They'll be divorced before Christmas. It doesn't take that long now that they've finally filed.

[whichwayisup]

His W says she's fine with it, has even encouraged it, and had told the kids to be nice to me.

 

Rose, get your story straight. First you say that she is being crazy and filling the kids heads up with bad stuff about you and talkin to her older kid about you and the affair, now you say she encourages the kids to be nice to you? Something is off here. Sorry.

[UpwardForward]

I'm wondering if this woman even has an attorney, while you and her H are ordering/organizing her and her children's life. (So that she can go 'forward' )

 

In my state the H to financially contribute/allow W and children to remain in the family home until children are of age.

[rosieisblue]

Why did she have to kick him out, why didn't he just LEAVE. Why wait for her to make that final decision? Your MM is passive and has no spine, no guts.

 

 

 

So how is meeting his kid(s) so soon helping? They need to adjust and get used to life without the family under one roof. Do you not see it's TOO SOON for you to be around his child? At least for now the younger one?

 

This whole situation is messed up. Why the rush to blend the families? They aren't even officially divorced yet.

 

Also, he was planning to leave, just wanted to do it slowly and gently and make sure that it wasn't this big traumatic, dramatic upheaval it turned into. We both wanted to let our partners down gently but her finding out changed that, badly. It got quite ugly.

[herenow]

I don't think that will happen. After she kicked him out I was still with my boyfriend and I remember him saying he was out with friends one night in a bar and he knew he couldn't do the whole singles thing, the whole dating thing, it wasn't for him. He wanted me and he waited for me. And I eventually was free to be with him. And we've been together every since, other than the two times I ended it breifly when the kids got too much for me.

 

I don't think he latched on to me, I think he really wanted me but didn't want to pressure me.

 

And she kicked him out because he was honest with her and told her he had feelings for me, that it wasn't just sex. That was it for her, although she did want him to come home for a bit but gave up after awhile.

 

Yup, sounds about right. The "singles thing" is really scary for someone who needs as much attention as you say he needs. You are a sure thing. He knows he will get his fix from you. It's very safe.

 

I'm not saying this is definitely going to be the case n your situation. All I am saying is that it sounds very familiar and maybe something you should consider to be a possibility. All it takes is a taste of what he can have as as single man and his fears about being alone will be gone. Right now he has you as a sure thing. Just be careful after that divorce is final. Again, it happens all the time. Protect yourself.

[herenow]

So, remember when he gets unhappy, clams up and doesn't communicate his needs, he takes the easy way out and cheats. Either physically or emotionally with someone else. I hope for your sake this guy SEEKS counselling to fix himself and learns how to communicate with you if he is unhappy or feels his needs aren't being met. Otherwise you will find yourself the 'betrayed spouse' and get a taste of what his wife has been through.

 

Exactly. Unless he gets to the root of his own issues, Rosie will be his sure thing sitting at home while he is out living the single live.

 

Or, even worse, he will cheat with his ex. How many times have we read this stuff WWIU?

[Drseussgrrl]

Rosieblue,

 

I know you're going to go ahead with this and make this guy your future.

 

All I have to say is good luck - I really think you're going to need it.

 

You are young, you're in your child bearing years and you could have a bright future with someone without the angry ex wife, the betrayed kids, the messy divorce, the fact that you're the "other woman".

 

Of course this guy is afraid to be back on the singles scene. It's different now that he's 40 with baggage. Aside from that he cannot be alone. You're his emotional tampon. And I think what bothers me the most about your posts, is that you seem to think you're "better" for him in some way, that you wouldn't stay home with his kids, that you would love him better or give him the attention that he needs, therefore not cheating on you. You haven't lived reality with him yet, not by a long shot. You're caught up in the fantasy of a sordid love affair in which love conquers all and that you'll get your happily-ever-after, awful ex-wife be damned. With the string of affairs peppering his marriage that you are so easy to dismiss, I am not one bit surprised that she turned cold on him. I'm sure he invalidated and minimized her feelings about them, too. You cannot blame one person for the poor and selfish choices that you ultimately make for yourself. And he chose to be liar and a cheater. How you are ok with this, I don't understand.

 

I just think you should really think long and hard about this. We only have one shot at this thing called life, and I honestly and truly believe that you're going to look back on this one day and wished you had made a different choice.