Why Do People think Lowly Of Hookers?

[Woggle]

A lot of women who are violently against prostitution have the practice of using the monopoly power of their vagina to try to stabilize their relationship(s), and sexually available other women undermine their technique. Prostitutes are merely an easy mark for demonization but if you get them in a corner they will express similar feelings toward any sexually available woman.

 

Just not trendy to outlaw fornication anymore.

 

I think this is part of it. If men could easily go and pay a fee in order to have some drama free sex we wouldn't feel the need to jump through all these hopes and deal with all the drama just to get some affection.

[Els]

I think this is part of it. If men could easily go and pay a fee in order to have some drama free sex we wouldn't feel the need to jump through all these hopes and deal with all the drama just to get some affection.

 

And this is why women who aren't violently against prostitution really don't care about it. The sort of guys who think 'I can get me sex anytime I want, why should I bother about relationships?'... let the prostitutes have them. They're doing us all a favour.

[Leigh 87]

I am not a fan of the institution of prostitution. I just don't "think lowly of hookers" or deem them to be "bad people" because of that aspect of their lives.

 

 

 

ME TOO. MOreover, I think there are men that need them. Men who cannot get women, beautiful or otherwise. They may just want a **** now and again, if they are not sucessful at it in their regular lives.

 

 

 

KATHY - No, jobs are not easy to come by, unless you have certain degrees. Without a degree, with only cafe and retail prospects, MOST people will NOT be able to pay rend, food, and etc.

 

 

Literally. It is disgusting, but in first world countries, many people with low skills; not only do they not have much of an easy time going about improving their skills ( it cost too much money for degrees and certificates), but even eith their 2 jobs in cafes, other shops, or maybe cleaning toilets - they CANNOT afford an honest living.

 

 

People with low paying jobs, can often not afford to further their skills, and cannot afford enough food to be full; MOST people with low skilled jobs do go a little hungry often. They DO NOT know if they will be able to pay their rent. And god forbid, if they have children. Worrying if they will have a bed the next day,, and enough food to eat for their KIDS....

 

 

 

Prostitution IS the ONLY way for some families to survive! Jobs ARE NOT easy to get, even low skilled ones; people who are lucky enough to HAVE jobs, can often not afford to live, in the most basic conditions.

You are in absolutely no position to judge, unless YOU personally know or have read a lot about homeless people; how do u know they can " easily just get a job"???????????

 

 

I wish there were enough jobs out there, for willing people to accept and live off. But there aren't. Prostitution will always be essential for certain people, who do not WANT to do it, but HAVE to.

 

 

 

...............Kathy, your sounding like the bad person here, assuming anyone can just go get a job, and that NO one ever "needs: to resort to being a hooker...... How would YOU know?!?!?!?!

[Woggle]

And this is why women who aren't violently against prostitution really don't care about it. The sort of guys who think 'I can get me sex anytime I want, why should I bother about relationships?'... let the prostitutes have them. They're doing us all a favour.

 

Relationships are great with the right woman but women who are worth the effort are not easy to find.

 

If a man just wants sex why deal with all the drama of courting and all that other stuff?

[Els]

Relationships are great with the right woman but women who are worth the effort are not easy to find.

 

If a man just wants sex why deal with all the drama of courting and all that other stuff?

 

Yes, that is why such a man should go to prostitutes. As I said, does us all a favour. Why are you making me repeat myself?

[threebyfate]

So by your logic, if a married man picks up women on a dating site by lying about his marital status, then the women he lied to are to blame for putting attractive pictures of themselves on the internet because they want a man to date.

Not the same logic. As Casey herself has stated, she doesn't care if he's married or not so there's no lying involved beyond the belief that his married status is irrelevant, as long as she paid.

 

That said, if the women on the dating site knew or felt his marital status was irrelevant to her "job" of dating, then yes, she's an accessory to his infidelity. Go ask all the OWs and OMs in the OW/OM subforum if they knew. Some would say the married person lied to begin with but as at the point they're posting in the LS subforum, the OWs/OMs knew their partner was married and remained in the affair. This makes them all accessories, hence can be sued through tort, using the "alienation of affection" clause, as defined by the state of North Carolina and a few others.

[CopingGal]

I don't think lowly of hookers. What do I care what they do? As long as they do it away from families and little children. I don't think it's good for kids to see hookers walking the street. As long as the act takes place inside a house somewhere and the person is not FORCED into prostitution, and is of age, and uses condoms so that married bastard she screws doesn't bring stds to his wife...I could care less. Live and let live.

Edited June 11, 2012 by CopingGal

[somedude81]

It's just too much effort to get into a relationship. I really am tired of struggling so much just to get a basic human need met.

 

Of course I want more than just sex, but at least getting laid every now and then will do a lot to brighten up my life.

[Taramere]

I've already explained why I haven't explained the negatives, because all I've had to do since I first posted was defend my occupation. It's hard to be judged and not want to defend yourself. Plus everyone has gone on for something like 12 pages about all of the negatives, so I wanted to talk about the positives.

 

If you want the REAL negatives here they are:

 

Safety Considerations:

When I have a client that is coming to my working flat (which is not where I live) I have a security buddy that I call when the client get's there. He hears this phone call and knows that if I am late checking back in at the end of the appointment the police will be there in 10 minutes.

 

I take the money at the beginning of the appointment and put it in a safe. I have a rape alarm by my bed.

 

Screening clients depends on whether they are coming to me or I am going to them. If I am going to them then I need there full address and check this against the electoral role. I do not give out my address until I can see them outside.

 

I have a strict booking procedure, and after a while you immediately know if someone is just a timewaster (someone that gets off on making an appointment and never showing up) or someone more sinister. I can't really describe what it is, but specific questions and attitudes make alarm bells ring.

 

What you have to understand, the risk I am at though is very minimal, and the violence towards girls like myself experience is rare. It happens but not as often as you might think.

 

There are other, less serious negatives, like:

Hiding it from friends and family

Men with bad hygiene (never an issue with me, I have a strict shower policy)

Timewasters (it can get annoying after a while)

Having a client that you just don't vibe with

 

Some other considerations:

Starting can be expensive if you want to do it properly (photos, websites, advertising etc)

Right now (as none of you will realise) there isn't as much money in it as there was a year or two ago, and people massively overestimate what you earn.

Issues around self-employment

 

To me it's a great job, to others it might not be. It's a personal choice.

But you have negatives with any job, and to me it's part of it.

 

Fair enough. I'm glad you have good security measures in place. That's really my number one concern when I read "I work as a prostitute and it's great" posts.

 

Of course a promiscuous woman is putting herself at increased risk of violence/murder in any event given the exposure to strangers, and in that sense your security measures probably place you at less risk than a girl who's going out clubbing, drinking and going home with guys she doesn't know. On the other hand, the business of recruiting clients seems like it would be a very risky one. Which is why I worry about these posts being read by the impressionable who might think "hey, a couple of ads on Craigslist and I could be rolling in it too!"

 

To Leigh's opening post and general subject (reasons for the stigmatisation). I think a lot of it probably has to do with historic concerns about

 

a) disease

b) Resentment, particularly in low income families, about limited funds being spent on prostitutes (and drink and gambling too, of course)

 

Back in Victorian times, a large proportion of women in London (and many children) worked as prostitutes. In Britain the Contagious Diseases Act was probably a catalyst for people to start questioning the norm of degrading/dehumanising anybody who worked as a prostitute.

 

With that Act, prostitutes or women (and it was specifically women who were targeted with the legislation) suspected of working as prostitutes could be arrested, imprisoned and subjected to humiliating medical examinations against their will. The aim was to protect military personnel from being infected by prostitutes....though military personnel were not, themselves, subjected to such measures.

 

It was the a particularly stark example of double standards being applied in the case of prostitutes and the men who frequented them. Generally, I think that legislation highlighted the issue of STDs - and, probably, the extent to which prostitutes were demonised for the existence and spread of STDs.

 

Then there's the religious aspect....and, of course, there's the element of men not tending to want to enter into serious relationships with women who they know work as prostitutes. I should think that from a prostitute's perspective that would be a far bigger deal than the stigma strangers attach to the occupation. Men who frequent prostitutes and/or vociferously support them as the "most honest kind of women"...but who, at crunch time, wouldn't actually want to marry/get into a long term relationship with them on account of their occupation - whether it's past or present.

 

I've often seen this "women hate prostitution because it removes their own vaginas' power" argument" and it just doesn't ring any bells for me. Just like a man...a woman's power comes from many things. Brains, physical beauty, talent, connections, wealth etc. Attributing a woman's potential to matter, and to have influence, down to one body part seems like something a misogynist rather than a self respecting woman would do.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Taramere

[123321]

Attributing a woman's potential to matter, and to have influence, down to one body part seems like something a misogynist rather than a self respecting woman would do.

 

Bingo?

 

A lot of women lack self respect and the sexual monopoly they (sort of) enjoy props up their confidence. If you look through a thread like this, the truly confident independent women tend to be more rational about it and realize that it's a fairly simple question of the right to control of ones own body.

[Taramere]

A lot of women who are violently against prostitution have the practice of using the monopoly power of their vagina to try to stabilize their relationship(s), and sexually available other women undermine their technique. Prostitutes are merely an easy mark for demonization but if you get them in a corner they will express similar feelings toward any sexually available woman.

 

Just not trendy to outlaw fornication anymore.

 

I just noticed this...which is an argument I commented on in my above post. I'm not saying you're a misogynist, but I would ask you to expand on where this belief that women are so focused on their own vaginas comes from. Is it really an accurate observation based on the behaviour of women you know? Is it based on comments you've read here?

 

As a woman who talks to (and reads the views of) other women, I'm not convinced that women generally are as focused on the notion of their vagina being this powerful thing. It's the kind of outlook I might expect to hear at some wacky women's collective meeting, or from somebody who works in the sex trade and therefore uses their vagina (and other orifices) to make a living....but I think most everyday women have a bit more idealism than that about them. I think most believe they have a lot more to offer, and are appreciated for far more, than just a body part.

[Taramere]

Bingo?

 

A lot of women lack self respect and the sexual monopoly they (sort of) enjoy props up their confidence. If you look through a thread like this, the truly confident independent women tend to be more rational about it and realize that it's a fairly simple question of the right to control of ones own body.

 

Aha. Cross post. I think that probably in any relationship gone bad, this could be an issue.

 

I write this from a place where I can't imagine ever trying to use sex to get what I want. Then I suddenly remember a time when I was trying to salvage a relationship, and did exactly that. It's a mistake I wouldn't make twice...but I did make it once.

 

What I would say, (from my own experience anyway) is that when a woman is in that place, she's looking at herself through the eyes of a man who no longer rates her. It's not a good perspective for any woman to take...but yes, when she does take that perspective she's likely to reduce her own value down to her body.

 

That said, even when I was at that point I don't think I'd have felt threatened by prostitutes. When I was cheated on, it wasn't the sex that bothered me so much as the emotional connection with another. The "pair bonding" with somebody else. I see prostitution as too pragmatic and businesslike an arrangement for it to be something I would feel personally threatened by.

 

One of the major concerns I would have wouldn't be so much that it was a threat....more that seeing a prostitute might be a way of propping up a marriage or relationship that just wasn't working any more, instead of facing up to that and doing something about it.

[123321]

Aha. Cross post. I think that probably in any relationship gone bad, this could be an issue.

 

Have a look at some of the emotions that are involved; we have multiple women hating all hookers because some of them don't screen married or committed men from their customer lists ...

 

That sort of "reasoning" doesn't come from a place of confidence.

[Taramere]

Have a look at some of the emotions that are involved; we have multiple women hating all hookers because some of them don't screen married or committed men from their customer lists ...

 

That sort of "reasoning" doesn't come from a place of confidence.

 

Yes, I don't buy into the notion that prostitutes have a duty to screen out married men. Their duty is to take precautions to reduce health and safety risks.

 

As far as the threat to the marriage goes....I still maintain that a prostitute will prop up a bad marriage rather than break up a marriage. I think Lizzie60 used to say something similar when she posted here. That she helped men to maintain their marriages.

 

In that sense, going to a prostitute becomes a sort of coping mechanism. Coping mechanisms tend to stop problems from being confronted and dealt with. Whether that's a positive or negative thing, who can say? In the case of a temporary problem that will sort itself out with time, it might be a positive thing.

 

In the case of a major marital problem that isn't going anywhere on its own, the man resorting to prostitutes to cope is just going to increase distance - in the same way that use of other coping mechanisms (like drinking, compulsive shopping etc) would increase distance and do nothing to resolve the underlying problems.

[zengirl]

It's not irrelevant, much like driving the gettaway car for a robbery doesn't make the driver innocent or irrelevant to the crime committed since both you and the driver stand to profit from aiding and abetting.

 

Personally, I think it's more like being the manufacturer or salesman of the getaway car, but johan's post said it best. There's no malice or intent in being the hooker that a married man seeks out and no need to even ask. You don't ask those sort of questions when selling anyone a service.

[Leigh 87]

I recommend watching Chalize Therons new movie - Adult Kid. About her - an insanely beautiful girl from a small town, who has slight mental problems, and is deluded - enough to think the guy she wants, from her highs chool years, wants to be with her ( the way she " knwos" they should be together".

 

 

So. She wants her ex, she had in high school, back. She is adamant he is the one for her. She discovers he is happily married, with a new baby. Still, Charlize is not detered - she assumes she can just come along, and get a married man to be with her, despite his " less attractive" wife.

 

 

The most telling and important part of that movie, I think - is that people DO think lowly of women who ACITVELY seek to destreoy a marriage, for their own selfish reasons.

Charlize happily those around her, matter of factl;y - " me and __ are meant to be together " blabla. Of course, the people act like what Charlize is doing is very, very off colour...

 

To the contrary, prostitutes do not TRY to get married or committed men to have sex with them; they do not want to destroy a relationship. they are just doing their job.

Come on. Being obese is pretty sh*tty, yet the owners and manufacturers of junk food and fast foods are not " bad people" for giving people, with the tendency to become overweight, the key foods to do it.

[Els]

Personally, I think it's more like being the manufacturer or salesman of the getaway car, but johan's post said it best. There's no malice or intent in being the hooker that a married man seeks out and no need to even ask. You don't ask those sort of questions when selling anyone a service.

 

Yep, agreed. IMO, when it comes to cheating, the intent is as bad as the act, so I absolutely do not see the prostitute's fault in that (unless she solicits, but that is illegal in most countries that allow prostitution). Let's assume that prostitutes are outlawed everywhere. Some married men who want to cheat but are unable to get any woman other than a prostitute to do so with them, are forced to remain loyal. How does that even benefit their marriage? Does any woman really want a man who is seeking to cheat and the only reason he remains loyal is because he can't get anyone to have sex with him? Far better that they do the deed (and get found out) so that the spouse finally gets the jolt she needs to fix things or (more advisably) get out.

[zengirl]

Yep, agreed. IMO, when it comes to cheating, the intent is as bad as the act, so I absolutely do not see the prostitute's fault in that (unless she solicits, but that is illegal in most countries that allow prostitution). Let's assume that prostitutes are outlawed everywhere. Some married men who want to cheat but are unable to get any woman other than a prostitute to do so with them, are forced to remain loyal. How does that even benefit their marriage? Does any woman really want a man who is seeking to cheat and the only reason he remains loyal is because he can't get anyone to have sex with him? Far better that they do the deed (and get found out) so that the spouse finally gets the jolt she needs to fix things or (more advisably) get out.

 

This is how I feel --- it is the husband's intent to cheat that is the problem, not if he's able to do so or not. I don't understand why anyone would be so insecure in and out of touch with their marriage that they'd blame a hooker or worry about such things happening. The whole point of commitment isn't "No one will touch him if he's my husband" as much as "He's agreed to be faithful to me." If my husband WANTED to cheat, that'd be a problem, whether he actually could get it or not.

[Scottdmw]

I think it's a crappy way for someone to make a living and I would never recommend it, but I would support a persons right to do as they wish with their own body even if I personally think they are making a mistake. Not my place to force my views on them.

 

 

 

 

It happens, they are called lurkers. I lurked on /. for years before i had something to say that no one else was saying, for instance.

 

 

 

 

The studies, frankly, are irrelevant. The fundamental issue is the basic human right to do as one wishes with ones own body. A good basic principle is that anything that's legal to give away should be legal to sell.

 

Eating fast food, driving in cars and avoiding exercise are probably some of the most deadly and dangerous things normal citizens do, but do we make those things illegal? No, we try to mitigate risk and educate people about how to make better choices.

 

Commercial fishing is much more dangerous than prostitution, do we ban it? No, we allow people to make an informed choice, weighing the benefits against the risks. Laws against prostitution are religious beliefs given legal form, and attempting to claim otherwise is the pinnacle of disingenuousness.

 

If you care so much about the freedom of someone to do what they want with their own body, it seems like the studies should mean something to you.

 

I've posted a number of studies that show the vast majority of prostitutes are not willing participants but are forced, and that legalization actually tends to make this worse not better.

 

The data I posted shows that prostitution is essentially a modern day slave trade. Given that, are you sure your primary concern is people's freedom to do what they want with their bodies?

 

The one study I posted said that 1 out of 2 prostitutes become involved in the business before the age of 18. Some much younger, just children. Are these girls “doing what they want with their bodies?” Maybe you believe we should also get rid of age of consent laws and give young girls the freedom to have sex with older men legally? There is no informed choice here--only force in the vast majority of cases.

 

 

Scott

[zengirl]

I don't think those studies prove causation that legalization makes things worse. I simply think they prove that many countries who consider the practice legal also don't crack down on human trafficking. You can crack down on trafficking and coercion while making prostitution legal and it'd be easier to do that, if you had a firm commitment to both ideals. Not many countries do. Many countries that have made prostitution legal have NOT committed the arm of the law to stop trafficking, but that's not to say we couldn't.

[Scottdmw]

 

Prostitution was legalized six or so years ago in my country. There has been no discernible increase in anything - good or bad - in that time. In other words, nothing has changed as a consequence. As for human trafficking, that's a far bigger issue than prostitution in my view. Nonetheless, that, as a percentage of those working within the industry represents a tiny minority of those involved. Your average punter will not come across them in the developed world.

 

 

 

.

 

 

That is not true.

 

I've already posted these studies twice but here is the link again to the original posting.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/general/general-relationship-discussion/329507-why-do-people-think-lowly-hookers-7.html

 

Trafficking/force is the vast majority of prostitution, not the other way around. If you want to deny this, please offer some evidence.

 

Scott

[Scottdmw]

I don't think those studies prove causation that legalization makes things worse. I simply think they prove that many countries who consider the practice legal also don't crack down on human trafficking. You can crack down on trafficking and coercion while making prostitution legal and it'd be easier to do that, if you had a firm commitment to both ideals. Not many countries do. Many countries that have made prostitution legal have NOT committed the arm of the law to stop trafficking, but that's not to say we couldn't.

 

Okay I'll agree they don't prove causation, but they definitely don't prove causation the other way that legalization prevents or even reduces trafficking.

[casey1989]

If you care so much about the freedom of someone to do what they want with their own body, it seems like the studies should mean something to you.

 

I've posted a number of studies that show the vast majority of prostitutes are not willing participants but are forced, and that legalization actually tends to make this worse not better.

 

The data I posted shows that prostitution is essentially a modern day slave trade. Given that, are you sure your primary concern is people's freedom to do what they want with their bodies?

 

The one study I posted said that 1 out of 2 prostitutes become involved in the business before the age of 18. Some much younger, just children. Are these girls “doing what they want with their bodies?” Maybe you believe we should also get rid of age of consent laws and give young girls the freedom to have sex with older men legally? There is no informed choice here--only force in the vast majority of cases.

 

 

Scott

 

You are still ignoring the fact that stats do not paint the whole picture, as people in the sex industry are not forthcoming with information.

 

You can throw about all the stats you like, it doesn't make it an accurate representation of real life.

[Els]

Okay I'll agree they don't prove causation, but they definitely don't prove causation the other way that legalization prevents or even reduces trafficking.

 

Nobody said that it does. You need strong law enforcement to stop trafficking. Of course legalization of prostitution by itself does nothing to prevent trafficking.

 

What legalization does do, however, assuming that law enforcement is enacted alongside it, is to protect the rights and safety of the women who are employed in that profession. That is only common sense. If you are employed in a legal business with bouncers, STD checks and condoms, etc, you are going to be safer than if you are doing it on the sly without all of the above being mandatory.

 

It is really the same thing as legalization of abortion. Most of us would agree that abortion is something that we should try to prevent. But outlawing abortion simply removes people's ability to get safe, medically-sound, legal abortions. People are going to do it anyway. Legalization only makes it safer for the people involved.

[johan]

What keeping it illegal does is to move it into a completely unregulated black market. If you are concerned about safety of the workers but also want to minimize the industry itself, you legalize it but then tax and regulate/restrict it up to the margin where a black market begins to develop, then back off a little bit. That keeps it above the table but keeps it small.