Robert Z Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 There are always women everywhere, Robert, but not all men are YOU. You're right. I finally saw how men have been manipulated into thinking there is something wrong with their most basic needs. I refused to allow women and attitudes that can be traced right back to women's lib in the 70s, define who I am. I finally realized there is nothing wrong with being a man and having real needs. Back in the old days, women were instructed by their religious beliefs to be submissive unto their husbands. Now submissive is a dirty word. Okay fine, women were treated like crap back then. I understand that. But they also were raised with the notion of duty to their husband. This has been completely lost. Men still have a duty, but women think their duty ends with the job, kids, and/or household. Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Z Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Sex IS optional. People need to want to do it. Obviously nobody wants to do it with you - unless you pay for it. If you think that's "having it made," well - not much I can say to that. Aha, so now out comes the venom. Do you seriously think I can't get laid? While it is true that I would have a hard time getting laid by the beautiful young women, 30 years my younger, that I am enjoying now, I could certainly get laid. I just don't care to even try. And I don't care to get laid by women my age. And I don't want any strings or demands. Women, especially women my age, want a long-term relationship. I don't and I don't want to lie about it for sex. It's actually pathetic to read your accounts of the "friendship" and "affection" you get from prostitutes. They aren't your friends, Robert, even though all parties involved in such transactions are party to maintaining whatever illusion the random john is paying for. And you would know, how? Are you telling me that you've had a prostitute? Did you work as a prostitute? Tell me everything you know about me and my buddies. You are just trying to support your biases and prediposed beliefs by denying what has been said. Because accepting what I say rocks your world too much. It means having to let go of your personal biases and prejudices against men, sex, and women who are will to serve the needs of good men who just need some lovin. Just waiting for suckers who prefer to pay for sex than have it as a part of a multi dimensional relationship - or even to picking up on strange in real life. You know - if my husband was unhappy with me, he would not use the threat of paying for sex with a pro as a threat to get me to do what he wanted. That's just not the kind of man he is, thank God - but it is the kind of man YOU are. I'm not against it! You go, fella. I never made any threats and I never cheated on my wife in 25 years of marriage. I felt the need to be honest and confront her about all of this. So I did. But I do understand why other men feel trapped. Edited June 28, 2012 by Robert Z Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Z Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) What really threatens women about all of this is the idea that they could be replaced by a hooker. Well, if you expect to abuse your man and deny him his needs, if you think you're the Queen of the House, if you think he should always play second fiddle to your needs, then you can be replaced by a $500 prostitute. If you love him and try to understand his needs. If you accept that he is a man, not a woman, so he is fundametally different both mentally and emotionally, if you are willing to understand his sexual nature and make him happy, then if he really loves you, there is no way you can be replaced by a prostitute. Your choice. Edited June 28, 2012 by Robert Z Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Z Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Paid for affection. It's not real. It's based on the almighty dollar. Kind of like Hugh Hefner's girls. No, exactly like Hugh Hefner's girls. They wouldn't care if he's a big jackass, and his wrinkled nearly 90 year old butt probably repulses them, but he's got money so they'll *pretend* to like him. That's not enough for the kind of man my man is, nor most of the other men I know IRL. And some of them ARE loaded. They would divorce and deal with whatever financial outcome that entailed and go on to find a woman who would give them genuine affection. But if you're happy in that kind of world, have at it. Oh no, you don't get off that easy. While you may wish to dehumanize all prositutes as greedy bitches who would do anything to anyone for money, that doesn't make it true. The girls I know are young and sweet, but daring and driven. The difference between you and them is that they understand men and business. You clearly don't. And if you really think other men are so different that me, you are living an illusion. I was as good and loyal as they come. Even my X will still say so to this day. She will still tell you I'm a wonderful man and the kindest man she's even known. And in spite of the anger I still feel, I do still care about her and we are still friends. So make a villain as you need, but understand that the problem is yours, not mind. Link to post Share on other sites
aj22one Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Prostitution is one method men use to cheat on their wives, so I am not going to exclude it when I speak out against infidelity. And since it is the subject of this thread, and the primary "work" that prostitutes do involves enabling married men to cheat on their wives, I'm going to call it out on this thread. And state my objection to the legitimizing and legalizing of a profession whose main "work" involves enabling men to cheat on their wives. That type of profession does not deserve respect, legalization, or validity of any kind. It is destructive, and I will call it out as such. You don't have to respect prostitutes and Lord knows I ain't gonna make you haha. But just know that when you advocate to make something illegal you are saying it's ok to use force/violence against people who engage in the activity. For people who murder, steal, assault or rape, using force against them is usually justified. Otherwise, aren't there better non-violent/non-coercive ways to deal with an issue like prostitution that you obviously disagree with? You could try talking with prostitutes try to convince them with words that what they're doing is bad. You could write a book about it or a newspaper op-ed piece. I dunno, something like that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
aj22one Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Oh no, you don't get off that easy. While you may wish to dehumanize all prositutes as greedy bitches who would do anything to anyone for money, that doesn't make it true. The girls I know are young and sweet, but daring and driven. The difference between you and them is that they understand men and business. You clearly don't. And if you really think other men are so different that me, you are living an illusion. I was as good and loyal as they come. Even my X will still say so to this day. She will still tell you I'm a wonderful man and the kindest man she's even known. And in spite of the anger I still feel, I do still care about her and we are still friends. So make a villain as you need, but understand that the problem is yours, not mind. Yeah dude, so are waitresses. They ain't being nice on account of my good looks. They want a good tip haha 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Z Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Nice way of putting words in my mouth. I simply restated it as you portrayed them. You said wouldn't care if he's a big jackass, and his wrinkled nearly 90 year old butt probably repulses them, but he's got money so they'll *pretend* to like him. You clearly were trying to dehumanize them. I didn't dehumanize anyone. I never called anyone greedy bitches. They are freely giving that which they are being paid for. They KNOW you want affection, so they give it - BECAUSE THEY ARE GETTING PAID. It's an honest living on their part, so I have no issue with that. But if you think they honestly have affection for you, think again. They may like you - as a customer - but if you ran out of money tomorrow, I doubt, like any good business person SHOULD, that they would offer you a place to stay. I don't see any villains in your little scenario - just a misguided and confused person who doesn't really have a clue what true affection really means. Sad, that. You fail to understand the nature of a business friendship. Of course they are showing up because I pay them. Just like I show up because my customers pay me. But we do genuinely like each other, just as I genuinely like most of my customers. But I'm not going to give one my customers a place to live. It isn't that sort of friendship. However, by getting to know each other, by gaining their trust, by proving that I am a warm, sweet, gentle and loving man, we both enjoy our time together and it is something special. It is more than just sex. I've been in love before and I know how great sex can be when you're in love. Granted, sex with a prostitute can never be that good. But the honeymoon always ends. What I have with these girls is actually more rewarding than sex was when the wife lost interest due to hormones. And I know from many years of friendship with many other men that I am not unique. We have physical needs as well as the need for love. For a man they can be two completely different things. I can also enjoy genuine intimacy and affection without it being love. Most women don't understand that for men, it's not the same. You cannot separate these feelings. Men can and do. Link to post Share on other sites
nofool4u Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 More fundamentally, hormones ruin marriages. Uh, I think there is some truth to this. I heard a joke once that goes: What is the one food guaranteed to reduce a libido in a woman? Wedding cake. note: easy ladies, its just a joke. Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I have a theory on the breakdown of marriages in regards to sex, and where hookers factor in, but it's controversial. I think that a lot of men don't know how to make their wives happy sexually. Or make her feel attractive. This is why she stops having sex with the husband. Just because you're married, doesn't mean you should stop courting your woman like before you were married. I think that hookers are good if you can't get laid at all and you have no wife. As such, in that regard I don't dislike the idea of hookers, and I don't think lowly of them. Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 This is not supported by facts. You say that, but where's your studies to back up that claim? I've provided mine. I've read from many sources that most customers are married. Where are your studies to back up your claim? Or are you just going by the few prostitutes you know who hang out at the one bar you go to, in which you really don't know the marital status of their customers? Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Holding on to obsolete beliefs and being against society evolving is destructive too and I will call it out as such. Society evolving, or society decaying? I'd call it the latter when it is made legal to treat women like pieces of meat to be bought and sold. Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Work at improving their marriage? PLEASE!!! What a joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Most women reach a point where they lose interest in sex. There is nothing to repair. It is a problem of hormones and women who truly believe they have no responsibility to ther men. They refuse to try because they think a change in life means total selfishness is just fine. So to talk about repairing a marriage is total nonsense. What needs repairing is the attitude women like you have towards men and their genuine need for sex. You need to work this out with your wife instead of going behind her back and screwing some skank, or you will find yourself alone, divorced, with your children alienated from you. Living a dishonest life is an empty life, with no real connection with anybody. You better fix this--it's not fair to your wife or kids. You CAN get back the sexual intimacy in a marriage if you work on it, but it takes communication, honesty, caring and love. Sounds like you don't have those qualities in you to make this change, so perhaps you better just leave and stop living a dishonest life. Link to post Share on other sites
ThaWholigan Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 You need to work this out with your wife instead of going behind her back and screwing some skank, or you will find yourself alone, divorced, with your children alienated from you. Living a dishonest life is an empty life, with no real connection with anybody. You better fix this--it's not fair to your wife or kids. You CAN get back the sexual intimacy in a marriage if you work on it, but it takes communication, honesty, caring and love. Sounds like you don't have those qualities in you to make this change, so perhaps you better just leave and stop living a dishonest life. He's already divorced, so technically he isn't cheating. Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 However, by getting to know each other, by gaining their trust, by proving that I am a warm, sweet, gentle and loving man, we both enjoy our time together and it is something special. It is more than just sex. Sorry. They act like this towards you because they understand that it's what you want, and what you are paying for. Don't accuse me of dehumanizing prostitutes and thinking they are all greedy bitches, because that's far from the truth. I know more about prostitutes than you, as a john, ever will. You and your "service providers" are colluding together in maintaing the illusion that you want. It's what a good prostitute excels at. There's nothing wrong with that. It's the game played well, at a higher level than what you'll be able to buy on a street corner. I'm sure "your girls" all appreciate your generosity and the fact that they know your hot buttons and how to easily push them. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
FredRutherford Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Originally Posted by KathyM Society evolving, or society decaying? I'd call it the latter when it is made legal to treat women like pieces of meat to be bought and sold. They are selling a SERVICE, not themselves. That would be like calling my mechanic a piece of meat because I buy his service to fix my car. It's the prostitute's BODY the johns pay for. No one pays for the body of their car mechanic, dentist, physician or accountant, which do provide true services. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
joystickd Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 It's the prostitute's BODY the johns pay for. No one pays for the body of their car mechanic, dentist, physician or accountant, which do provide true services. logically sex would be the service they provide. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 What really threatens women about all of this is the idea that they could be replaced by a hooker. Well, if you expect to abuse your man and deny him his needs, if you think you're the Queen of the House, if you think he should always play second fiddle to your needs, then you can be replaced by a $500 prostitute. If you love him and try to understand his needs. If you accept that he is a man, not a woman, so he is fundametally different both mentally and emotionally, if you are willing to understand his sexual nature and make him happy, then if he really loves you, there is no way you can be replaced by a prostitute. Your choice. A $500 hooker will give you an hour of meaningless sex, nothing more. She won't be there for any other need. Other than the once or twice a month for one hour, you will be alone, with no one to care about you, no one to take care of you, no one to give a damn about you at all. But I do agree with you that wives do need to understand that a man needs a sexual relationship from his marriage, and that is something that is important to most men. But your obligation is to communicate that to your wife, and not to let it go. And not to seek that outside of your marriage. Nothing beats having a fulfilling sex life with someone you actually love and who loves you. No paid skank selling it to random strangers is going to give you that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
joystickd Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 A $500 hooker will give you an hour of meaningless sex, nothing more. She won't be there for any other need. Other than the once or twice a month for one hour, you will be alone, with no one to care about you, no one to take care of you, no one to give a damn about you at all. But I do agree with you that wives do need to understand that a man needs a sexual relationship from his marriage, and that is something that is important to most men. But your obligation is to communicate that to your wife, and not to let it go. And not to seek that outside of your marriage. Nothing beats having a fulfilling sex life with someone you actually love and who loves you. No paid skank selling it to random strangers is going to give you that. Not everyone believes in love but want sex Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 You don't have to respect prostitutes and Lord knows I ain't gonna make you haha. But just know that when you advocate to make something illegal you are saying it's ok to use force/violence against people who engage in the activity. For people who murder, steal, assault or rape, using force against them is usually justified. Otherwise, aren't there better non-violent/non-coercive ways to deal with an issue like prostitution that you obviously disagree with? You could try talking with prostitutes try to convince them with words that what they're doing is bad. You could write a book about it or a newspaper op-ed piece. I dunno, something like that. I'm not saying that by making it illegal, it's ok to use force/violence against them. And I do believe in helping them to get out of that destructive lifestyle through counseling, job training, and finding them resources to help them get out of that lifestyle. Most women in that profession, 90%+, do want to get out of the profession, and they don't like what they are doing. That study was posted earlier in this thread by Scott. Most want to get out of that lifestyle, and the answer to address this is not to legalize it, but to provide them with help to get out of that lifestyle. Link to post Share on other sites
joystickd Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I'm not saying that by making it illegal, it's ok to use force/violence against them. And I do believe in helping them to get out of that destructive lifestyle through counseling, job training, and finding them resources to help them get out of that lifestyle. Most women in that profession, 90%+, do want to get out of the profession, and they don't like what they are doing. That study was posted earlier in this thread by Scott. Most want to get out of that lifestyle, and the answer to address this is not to legalize it, but to provide them with help to get out of that lifestyle. When get up here and argue that they are destructive to marriage you make them the bad person and paint this depiction of them being these evil seducers. That attitude totally goes against this wanting you help attitude you are talking about now. That attitude also creates an environment where people could think its ok to use force or violence. It makes me wonder if you really want to help these women or be an advocate for them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 So think "lowly" of the MM who cheat by using prostitutes, not the prostitutes. That's like looking down on the gal working at the window at McDonald's because some guy can't stop stuffing McCheeseburgers into his face and gets diabetes. I think both the MM and the enabler are not deserving of respect. They are both being destructive. Same thing if the enabler was not being paid. How can you come down so hard on women that are mistresses on the infidelity forum or the OM/OW forum, but you think mistresses who are getting paid for it are somehow not to blame? It's no different. Same destruction, same act of enabling infidelity, just that one gets paid and one doesn't. I don't understand this dual thinking that's contradictory. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I think both the MM and the enabler are not deserving of respect. It would be useful in this discussion if you would stop misusing the word "enabler." A person selling sex is not enabling infidelity. They are, if anything, enabling sex. Though I would still not choose to use that word. I would, more correctly, say that they are providing a service for sale. Just like, as it's been pointed out here over a dozen times by now, a liquor store is not "enabling" an alchololic to drink, nor is MacDonald's "enabling" me to be unhealthy, and, particular to my situation, Zappo's is not enabling me to overspend on shoes. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
joystickd Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 It would be useful in this discussion if you would stop misusing the word "enabler." A person selling sex is not enabling infidelity. They are, if anything, enabling sex. Though I would still not choose to use that word. I would, more correctly, say that they are providing a service for sale. Just like, as it's been pointed out here over a dozen times by now, a liquor store is not "enabling" an alchololic to drink, nor is MacDonald's "enabling" me to be unhealthy, and, particular to my situation, Zappo's is not enabling me to overspend on shoes. Come on don't include Zappo's in this. I am currently figuring out what shoes I want to get now on there. Link to post Share on other sites
aj22one Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I'm not saying that by making it illegal, it's ok to use force/violence against them. And I do believe in helping them to get out of that destructive lifestyle through counseling, job training, and finding them resources to help them get out of that lifestyle. Most women in that profession, 90%+, do want to get out of the profession, and they don't like what they are doing. That study was posted earlier in this thread by Scott. Most want to get out of that lifestyle, and the answer to address this is not to legalize it, but to provide them with help to get out of that lifestyle. Are you or are you not advocating that prostitutes be put in jail and/or council programs against their will? Are you or are you not advocating that patrons of prostitutes be put in jail and/or fined? That, by definition is advocating the use of force against them. Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 They are selling a SERVICE, not themselves. That would be like calling my mechanic a piece of meat because I buy his service to fix my car. Your mechanic is not having sex with you and enabling you to cheat on your fiance. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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