Why Do People think Lowly Of Hookers?

[joystickd]

The problem is not the stigma. The problem is that there are men who abuse women and children, and exploit them. Sexually and physically abuse them. So girls grow up being abused and with low self esteem.

What about the women that choose prostitution that haven't been abused? You can't use the stories of a few to paint a bleak and biased picture of prostitution. What about the male prostitutes I guess you don't give a f**k about them do you? Self esteem or not there is a stigma associated with prostitution. Take out the abuse and exploitation of them when they were young and you have that big problem. How is someone going to respect someone that their own gender doesn't respect? Funny the women that talk of solidarity and s**t but don't give a f**k about women in the sex industry and when you do its from a place of insecurity of your femininity being threatened by these women that are not ashamed of their sexuality.

[Els]

Uncertain why people "must" view prostitutes and prostitution, in a positive way. It's a pretty gross occupation.

 

To clarify my stand: No, I don't think anyone 'must' view anyone or anything else in a certain way, really. Nor did I ever say that. All I am saying is that several consensual prostitutes have said that the most harmful part of their occupation, they find, is not the occupation itself, but rather the negative perception of them by society. Of course people are entitled to view them as they please, but the 'we view them negatively because they're doing harm to themselves' mindset is circular and unproductive.

 

Also, I don't see what the problem is with people having the right to view your viewpoint as 'judgemental and narrow' if you have the right to view prostitution as 'gross'. Are we not all entitled to our own viewpoints?

[somedude81]

To clarify my stand: No, I don't think anyone 'must' view anyone or anything else in a certain way, really. Nor did I ever say that. All I am saying is that several consensual prostitutes have said that the most harmful part of their occupation, they find, is not the occupation itself, but rather the negative perception of them by society. Of course people are entitled to view them as they please, but the 'we view them negatively because they're doing harm to themselves' mindset is circular and unproductive.

 

Also, I don't see what the problem is with people having the right to view your viewpoint as 'judgemental and narrow' if you have the right to view prostitution as 'gross'. Are we not all entitled to our own viewpoints?

What's also grossly unfair is the negative perception about men who have used a prostitute. It's basically so bad that any man has used one is better off simply not telling anybody that he's done so. Men pay for sex all the time with gifts and dinners and so on. So why is it worse if actual money is exchanged? And please don't mention trafficking or pimps because not all women who sell sex are forced into it.

[Els]

What's also grossly unfair is the negative perception about men who have used a prostitute. It's basically so bad that any man has used one is better off simply not telling anybody that he's done so. Men pay for sex all the time with gifts and dinners and so on. So why is it worse if actual money is exchanged? And please don't mention trafficking or pimps because not all women who sell sex are forced into it.

 

*shrugs* Beats me. I've never had a negative perception of a single, unattached man who visits prostitutes whom he knows are consensual.

 

I don't agree with you about men 'paying for sex with gifts' etc though. That may be the reason YOU would pay, but I would be cautious about equating that to all men.

[somedude81]

*shrugs* Beats me. I've never had a negative perception of a single, unattached man who visits prostitutes whom he knows are consensual.

It's great that you think that way. Many women don't share your thoughts though.

I don't agree with you about men 'paying for sex with gifts' etc though. That may be the reason YOU would pay, but I would be cautious about equating that to all men.

The reason I would pay? I don't know what you mean.

 

And yes, some men do pay for sex with their GF's or wives. What's your opinion on a woman who hasn't had sex with her husband in months, but then he buys her a new bracelet, and it's the honeymoon all over again.

[threebyfate]

To clarify my stand: No, I don't think anyone 'must' view anyone or anything else in a certain way, really. Nor did I ever say that. All I am saying is that several consensual prostitutes have said that the most harmful part of their occupation, they find, is not the occupation itself, but rather the negative perception of them by society. Of course people are entitled to view them as they please, but the 'we view them negatively because they're doing harm to themselves' mindset is circular and unproductive.

Quite funny to think that other people's opinions weigh heavily as compared to trading bodily fluids with complete strangers you're not even attracted to, which include most often, the creepiest of the creepy. Doesn't say much for their emotional sanity as it relates to healthy prioritization.

 

Also, I don't see what the problem is with people having the right to view your viewpoint as 'judgemental and narrow' if you have the right to view prostitution as 'gross'. Are we not all entitled to our own viewpoints?

Hey, I'm not the one waving the nonjudgemental flag around like it's a banner for people to rally around!

[Els]

It's great that you think that way. Many women don't share your thoughts though.

 

Well, the people (both men and women) who would judge a man negatively are also, quite verbally, judging the prostitutes and prostitution in itself. So, I guess they are being quite fair in that aspect.

 

The reason I would pay? I don't know what you mean.

 

And yes, some men do pay for sex with their GF's or wives. What's your opinion on a woman who hasn't had sex with her husband in months, but then he buys her a new bracelet, and it's the honeymoon all over again.

 

Hey, don't ask me, I'm not the one judging people for buying sex. All I'm saying is, not all men buy their gfs stuff just to get sex. Some actually do it because they think it'll *gasp!* make her happy or something of the sort.

 

Quite funny to think that other people's opinions weigh heavily as compared to trading bodily fluids with complete strangers you're not even attracted to, which include most often, the creepiest of the creepy. Doesn't say much for their emotional sanity as it relates to healthy prioritization.

 

Uh, in this country, at least, condoms (and STD checks) are mandatory, and they have the right to refuse business from anyone they please. Obviously, there is a tradeoff there - a businesswoman can refuse to deal with an obnoxious, rude client, but she has to make that decision based on how important his business is to her. At any rate, I don't know why one thing bothers them more than the other, but I'd think they're more qualified than you or me to decide what should or should not bother THEM.

 

Hey, I'm not the one waving the nonjudgemental flag around like it's a banner for people to rally around!

 

Awesome.

[KathyM]

Nah, I'll wait for you to provide evidence of your assertions before believing you.

 

OK, here you go. Here is one study showing legalizing prostitution increases human trafficking. There are certainly other studies out there. This study was 34 pages long, so I am only posting the introduction summarizing their findings.

[sIZE=6]Courant Research Centre

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‘Poverty, Equity and Growth in Developing and Transition Countries: Statistical Methods and Empirical Analysis’

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Georg-August-Universität Göttingen

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No. 96 Does Legalized Prostitution Increase Human Trafficking? Seo-Young Cho, Axel Dreher, Eric Neumayer

 

September 2011 (updated January 2012)

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Discussion Papers

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[/sIZE][/FONT][sIZE=2]⋅ [/sIZE][FONT=Arial,Arial][sIZE=2][FONT=Arial,Arial][sIZE=2]37073 Goettingen ⋅ Germany [/sIZE][/FONT][/sIZE][/FONT]

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Phone: +49-(0)551-3914066 ⋅ Fax: +49-(0)551-3914059

 

Email: [email protected]

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[/sIZE][/FONT][sIZE=2]Web: [/sIZE][FONT=Arial,Arial][sIZE=2][FONT=Arial,Arial][sIZE=2]http://www.uni-goettingen.de/crc-peg[/sIZE][/FONT][/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica][sIZE=2][FONT=Arial,Helvetica][sIZE=2]Electronic copy available at: Does Legalized Prostitution Increase Human Trafficking? by Seo-Young Cho, Axel Dreher, Eric Neumayer :: SSRN [/sIZE][/FONT][/sIZE][/FONT]

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Does Legalized Prostitution Increase Human Trafficking?

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Abstract: This paper investigates the impact of legalized prostitution on human trafficking inflows. According to economic theory, there are two opposing effects of unknown magnitude. The scale effect of legalizing prostitution leads to an expansion of the prostitution market, increasing human trafficking, while the substitution effect reduces demand for trafficked women as legal prostitutes are favored over trafficked ones. Our empirical analysis for a cross-section of up to 150 countries shows that the scale effect dominates the substitution effect. On average, legalized prostitution increases human trafficking inflows.

 

Keywords: human trafficking; prostitution

 

JEL-Codes: O15, F22, K42

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[/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][sIZE=3]University of Goettingen, Department of Economics, Platz der Goettinger Sieben 3, D-37073 Goettingen, Germany, Telephone: +49 (0)551 39-7368, Email: [email protected] [/sIZE][/FONT][/sIZE][/FONT]

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[/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][sIZE=3]Heidelberg University, Alfred-Weber-Institute for Economics, Bergheimer Strasse 58, 69115 Heidelberg, Germany, University of Goettingen, Germany, CESifo, Germany, IZA, Germany, and KOF Swiss Economic Institute, Switzerland, Telephone: +49 (0)551 39 10614, E-mail: [email protected] [/sIZE][/FONT][/sIZE][/FONT]

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[/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][sIZE=3]London School of Economics and Political Science, Department of Geography and Environment, Houghton Street, London WC2A 2AE, UK, Telephone: +44 (0)207 955 7598, Email: [email protected] [/sIZE][/FONT][/sIZE][/FONT]

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Acknowledgements:

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[/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][sIZE=3]The authors cordially acknowledge the financial support provided by the European Commission (the Prevention and Fight against Crime Programme, Directorate-General Justice, Freedom and Security). We thank Scott Jobson for proof-reading.[/sIZE][/FONT][/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][sIZE=2][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][sIZE=2]2 [/sIZE][/FONT][/sIZE][/FONT]

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1. Introduction

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Much recent scholarly attention has focused on the effect of globalization on human rights (Bjørnskov 2008, de Soysa and Vadlamannati 2011) and women’s rights in particular (Potrafke and Ursprung 2011). Yet, one important, and largely neglected, aspect of globalization with direct human rights implications is the increased trafficking of human beings (Potrafke 2011), one of the dark sides of globalization. Similarly, globalization scholars with their emphasis on the apparent loss of national sovereignty often neglect the impact that domestic policies crafted at the country level can still exert on aspects of globalization. This article analyzes how one important domestic policy choice – the legal status of prostitution – affects the incidence of human trafficking inflows to countries.

 

Most victims of international human trafficking are women and girls. The vast majority end up being sexually exploited through prostitution (UNODC 2006). Many authors therefore believe that trafficking is caused by prostitution and combating prostitution with the force of the law would reduce trafficking (Outshoorn 2005). For example, Hughes (2000: 651) maintains that "evidence seems to show that legalized sex industries actually result in increased trafficking to meet the demand for women to be used in the legal sex industries." Farley (2009: 313) suggests that "wherever prostitution is legalized, trafficking to sex industry marketplaces in that region increases."

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[/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][sIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][sIZE=1]1 [/sIZE][/FONT][/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][sIZE=3]In its [/sIZE][/FONT][/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][sIZE=3]Trafficking in Persons [/sIZE][/FONT][/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT][/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][sIZE=3]report, the U.S. State Department (2007: 27) states the official U.S. Government position "that prostitution is inherently harmful and dehumanizing and fuels trafficking in persons." The idea that combating human trafficking requires combating prostitution is, in fact, anything but new. As Outshoorn (2005: 142) points out, the UN International Convention for the Suppression of the Traffic in Persons from 1949 had already called on all states to suppress prostitution.[/sIZE][/FONT][/sIZE][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][sIZE=1][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][sIZE=1]2[/sIZE][/FONT][/sIZE][/FONT]

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[KathyM]

Kathy, your fascism is showing.

 

You should learn to let go, take things less seriously. People will find a way to destroy their families if that's really what they want to do. Outlawing prostitution creates more problems than it solves.

Nope, I take the exploitation and abuse of women very seriously. I take the harm to marriages and families very seriously. People don't want to destroy their families, but they foolishly risk them because these "services" are readily available. Legalizing prostitution increases demand and increases human trafficking, so I will speak out against it. As an advocate for abused women and children and a supporter of marriage and families, I'll be calling this "profession" for what it is. Dehumanizing, objectifying and degrading women. Damaging and destroying marriages and families.

[fortyninethousand322]

Nope, I take the exploitation and abuse of women very seriously. I take the harm to marriages and families very seriously. People don't want to destroy their families, but they foolishly risk them because these "services" are readily available. Legalizing prostitution increases demand and increases human trafficking, so I will speak out against it. As an advocate for abused women and children and a supporter of marriage and families, I'll be calling this "profession" for what it is. Dehumanizing, objectifying and degrading women. Damaging and destroying marriages and families.

 

"Speaking out" against prostitution is perfectly fine. People are free to speak out against any number of professions that have occupational hazards. What I object to is using the power of the state against prostitutes and their customers.

 

I mean I don't think people should be Yankees fans. But I'm not going to stand outside of Yankee Stadium and round people up and throw them in the slammer. I don't think people should smoke or do drugs, but people who do shouldn't be thrown in jail. I just don't see the point.

[KathyM]

ROFL!

 

Do you really think she became a prostitute with the intention to hurt wives and kids?

 

This is the last time I'm going to say it, the men who cheat on their SO's do so more with women who are not prostitutes.

 

Also cheating with a prostitute actually does less damage to the family then cheating with a woman he met somewhere else. No man is going to leave his wife and family for a hooker. It's just sex and there are no emotions involved.

Her intent was to make money, but she knew very well that her customers were mostly married men. You don't have statistics to back up your claim that married men cheat with non-prostitutes more than prostitutes. I don't have those statistics either, but I have read a lot of articles saying that married men go to prostitutes because it's more convenient and less complicated. And the damage comes from the infidelity, which destroys the marriage and family.

[KathyM]

She probably wants to make that illegal too. Don't give her any ideas.

Actually, that is illegal in several states. It's called "Alienation of Affections", which is against the law and punishable through civil suits.

[KathyM]

But what if they can't get any dates? And just because a woman's in the same position doesn't mean she'd want to date that sorta guy, anyway. I don't have an opinion on this topic, but while there are tons of married customers, there are tons of single guys who can't a date or any women companionship at all type of customers. Those guys are hardly in the minority when it comes to prostitution.

The majority of the customers are married or in a committed relationship.

[KathyM]

What about the women that choose prostitution that haven't been abused? You can't use the stories of a few to paint a bleak and biased picture of prostitution. What about the male prostitutes I guess you don't give a f**k about them do you? Self esteem or not there is a stigma associated with prostitution. Take out the abuse and exploitation of them when they were young and you have that big problem. How is someone going to respect someone that their own gender doesn't respect? Funny the women that talk of solidarity and s**t but don't give a f**k about women in the sex industry and when you do its from a place of insecurity of your femininity being threatened by these women that are not ashamed of their sexuality.

57% of prostitutes were sexually abused as children. 49% were physically abused as children. 82% of prostitutes were raped while working as prostitutes. I have no statistics on male prostitutes, but some young boys are also trafficked and forced into prostitution as well. Like I said, I've taken many classes on violence and abuse of women, and am an advocate for abused women. And I'm not insecure and ashamed of my sexuality, so don't bother to play that card. It doesn't fly.

[KathyM]

"Speaking out" against prostitution is perfectly fine. People are free to speak out against any number of professions that have occupational hazards. What I object to is using the power of the state against prostitutes and their customers.

 

I mean I don't think people should be Yankees fans. But I'm not going to stand outside of Yankee Stadium and round people up and throw them in the slammer. I don't think people should smoke or do drugs, but people who do shouldn't be thrown in jail. I just don't see the point.

Criminalizing prostitution decreases it and decreases human trafficking. There's a study from Sweden that demonstrates that. When Sweden made it illegal to buy sex, the number of prostitutes in that country decreased from approx. 2,500 to 1,500, and human trafficking to that country decreased as well.

[Cracker Jack]

The majority of the customers are married or in a committed relationship.

 

You're still focusing on one part of the equation. There's plenty of guys who can't connect with a woman on a normal basis that visits prostitutes. That's a fact. They don't make up a small % of the customers at all.

 

You can be against it because of the damage it does to families, but why punish the guys who aren't married or in a relationship? Because some lousy husband decided to cheat on his wife with a prostitute? I'm sure he'd find some way to eventually cheat, anyway.

[Els]

Criminalizing prostitution decreases it and decreases human trafficking. There's a study from Sweden that demonstrates that. When Sweden made it illegal to buy sex, the number of prostitutes in that country decreased from approx. 2,500 to 1,500, and human trafficking to that country decreased as well.

 

You mean the number of prostitutes and trafficking that the authorities know about decreased. There's a huge difference.

 

I'm not saying the study is necessarily false, but that's the point: When it comes to such things, studies are of marginal value. Evidently the number of obvious cases of anything will decrease when it is outlawed, as compared to when it is not - because people take more steps to hide it. But that says nothing about whether or not the volume of illegal/nonconsensual cases, which is what we should REALLY be worried about where prostitution is concerned, increases or decreases.

 

These are all things that you cannot know from the ivory tower. No rigorous statistics, no amount of ANOVA and chi-squared tests are able to genuinely provide a picture of what ultimately goes on behind the scenes.

 

Speaking from experience, women are kidnapped every day for human trafficking in several countries in which prostitution is 'illegal'. On the other hand, in countries such as Aus/NZ in which it is legal, human trafficking is almost nonexistent.

[joystickd]

57% of prostitutes were sexually abused as children. 49% were physically abused as children. 82% of prostitutes were raped while working as prostitutes. I have no statistics on male prostitutes, but some young boys are also trafficked and forced into prostitution as well. Like I said, I've taken many classes on violence and abuse of women, and am an advocate for abused women. And I'm not insecure and ashamed of my sexuality, so don't bother to play that card. It doesn't fly.

Are you pulling these number out of your a$$? Please show where you are getting this information.

[Anela]

 

And yes, some men do pay for sex with their GF's or wives. What's your opinion on a woman who hasn't had sex with her husband in months, but then he buys her a new bracelet, and it's the honeymoon all over again.

 

maybe because he was thoughtful? If someone does something for me out of the blue, I know it perks me up.

[Anela]

Her intent was to make money, but she knew very well that her customers were mostly married men. You don't have statistics to back up your claim that married men cheat with non-prostitutes more than prostitutes. I don't have those statistics either, but I have read a lot of articles saying that married men go to prostitutes because it's more convenient and less complicated. And the damage comes from the infidelity, which destroys the marriage and family.

 

About four years ago, I found a blog written by a man who was using prostitutes, because he said he wasn't "getting any" at home. He spoke of taking his favourite on a business trip, and picking up another woman for a threesome - of all sorts of things - and his wife was stuck at home with the kids, including a newborn. He was also using the blog to try to find women for affairs, without the financial transaction. Grossed me out, and I felt so bad for his wife.

 

I have a personal beef that I won't go into.

[fortyninethousand322]

Criminalizing prostitution decreases it and decreases human trafficking. There's a study from Sweden that demonstrates that. When Sweden made it illegal to buy sex, the number of prostitutes in that country decreased from approx. 2,500 to 1,500, and human trafficking to that country decreased as well.

 

Perhaps. Though I could decrease the amount of crime by locking up people whenever I felt like it. When you've got a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

 

There are better, non-violent ways of decreasing prostitution. Sending people to prison for selling their own body is dumb. Not to mention unenforceable as we move further into the 21st century.

[123321]

Women in general dislike prostitution because it sets up an open market on a commodity that they would rather see remain a monopoly. I would have thought that feminists would be more uniform in asserting a woman's right to control her own body.

[fortyninethousand322]

Women in general dislike prostitution because it sets up an open market on a commodity that they would rather see remain a monopoly. I would have thought that feminists would be more uniform in asserting a woman's right to control her own body.

 

No you only get the choices already on the "approved" list.

[Scottdmw]

 

Speaking from experience, women are kidnapped every day for human trafficking in several countries in which prostitution is 'illegal'. On the other hand, in countries such as Aus/NZ in which it is legal, human trafficking is almost nonexistent.

 

That's not what this says:

 

http://2001-2009.state.gov/documents/organization/38901.pdf

 

"Where prostitution is legalized or tolerated, there is a

greater demand for human trafficking victims and nearly

always an increase in the number of women and children

trafficked into commercial sex slavery."

 

Also interesting you should mention Australia, here is a study that seems to directly contradict your statement:

 

Richard Poulin, PhD, Professor of Sociology at the University of Ottawa, wrote "The Legalization of Prostitution and Its Impact on Trafficking in Women and Children" posted Feb. 6, 2005 on Sisyphe.org:

"Although there was a belief that legalization would make possible control of the sex industry, the illegal industry is now 'out of control'. Police in Victoria [Australia] estimate that there are 400 illegal brothels as against 100 legal ones. Trafficking in women and children from other countries has increased significantly. The legalization of prostitution in some parts of Australia has thus resulted in a net growth of the industry. One of the results has been the trafficking in women and children to 'supply' legal and illegal brothels. The 'sex entrepreneurs' have difficulty recruiting women locally to supply an expanding industry, and women from trafficking are more vulnerable and more profitable."

 

 

Now, perhaps you have some studies that support your position?

 

Scott

[Scottdmw]

What about the women that choose prostitution that haven't been abused? You can't use the stories of a few to paint a bleak and biased picture of prostitution. What about the male prostitutes I guess you don't give a f**k about them do you? Self esteem or not there is a stigma associated with prostitution. Take out the abuse and exploitation of them when they were young and you have that big problem. How is someone going to respect someone that their own gender doesn't respect? Funny the women that talk of solidarity and s**t but don't give a f**k about women in the sex industry and when you do its from a place of insecurity of your femininity being threatened by these women that are not ashamed of their sexuality.

 

 

It's not the case that only a few stories are about abuse and trafficking--they are the vast majority. I posted these studies a few days ago but maybe you didn't see them:

 

And, it's not just women that think prostitution is bad.

 

 

http://2001-2009.state.gov/documents...tion/38901.pdf

 

“A 2003 study first published in the scientific Journal of Trauma Practice found that 89 percent of women in prostitution want to escape.”

 

And, here's one from the UK:

 

Trafficking & prostitution - The Facts - End Violence Against Women

 

3 out of 4 women in prostitution become involved aged 21 or younger, and 1 in 2 aged 18 or younger (Child & Woman Abuse Studies Unit)

 

Surely we can agree that girls under the age of 18 cannot morally or legally consent to prostitution?

 

And, here's one from Spain:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/07/wo...pagewanted=all

 

“While the rest of Spain’s economy may be struggling, experts say that prostitution — almost all of it involving the ruthless trafficking of foreign women — is booming, exploding into public view in small towns and big cities. “

 

“The State Department’s 2010 report on trafficking said that 200,000 to 400,000 women worked in prostitution in Spain. The report said that 90 percent were trafficked.”