Would you dump your fiancee for $50,000?

[canseagull2011]

Hi everyone. I'm engaged to a beautiful young woman. I'm 39, living in North America. Average looks, good job. My fiancee lives in the Philippines, she's 31, beautiful. She is unemployed, a university grad and comfortable, living at home with her family. (She left her job in 2007). She shows very little motivation to work/study (i offered to pay for her schooling and she declined multiple times). My question is this. I've spent $25,000 so far (2 trips, ring), I am going to spend another $25,000 plus in a wedding, honeymoon, trip to North America before she sets foot in my country and we start life together. She'll need probably $10,000 - $15,000 start-up (medical, dental, clothes, education, social, etc) This will put us $40,000 in debt starting out.

 

I only have mortgage debt now. Am I crazy for spending so much on someone. Should i just end things, stay out of debt and find someone local. Realistically, it would probably take 1 - 2 years to get to the same stage with someone local, who would probably be older/less attractive/less committed.

 

I don't know what to do. I love this girl. I can't sleep at night with the worry about money. I don't want to give her up, but i worry constantly about money thinking of moving forward. If i bring her here, I need to be strong, not worried about money all the time. What should I do?

 

Thoughts?

[Philosoraptor]

Ok now how long have you been with her, how much time have you actually spent with her, and what makes you believe this relationship will last?

 

Would I dump my fiancee for 50k? Pff I let my ex off the hook for around that much just to get her out of my life faster.

[Seneca]

Yes you are crazy for spending that much for sex. I don't think anyone is that great in bed to warrant that amount of money... except for maybe me.

[Art_Critic]

If you are this worried, losing sleep etc etc about the money now then getting married will greatly increase your debt and money issues as well as your worry

If she doesn't want to work or go to school now what do you think will change in the future for her decision to change ?

 

I think you need to look long and hard at this relationship.. is it a marriage of convenience for her or is she marrying you for love ?

I also think you should talk over you future expectations with her.. lay it all out on the line now.. and she needs to do the same so you both can see where each is coming from.

[carhill]

Thoughts?

 

When I was international dating, the costs came out of discretionary spending. I can't imagine taking on debt to date/K1 someone from another country. Let her family provide a dowry or something. You do understand the cultural norm of sending money home to her family, don't you?

 

When I read the thread title, speaking as a recently divorced guy in his 50's and thinking I'd get 50K by dumping a fiance, my first response was 'sure, that's another REO house I can buy and fix up. No brainer.'

[pink_sugar]

I don't mean this in a rude way, but is she a mail order bride? How did you two meet? How long have you been together? You cannot change people. If she isn't motivated to go to school or work, she's not going to. You sound like a fellow with plenty of money, which makes it easy for her if you're already willing to spend 50k on her. Bad idea. Find someone who is finishing up school or already has a career going for themselves. Beauty isn't everything if you aren't on the same level regarding work/career/school beliefs. You actually kinda remind me of my dad.

[canseagull2011]

Hi All, thanks for your comments. I thought I would provide some more background. We met on a global personals site. I chatted with many women (tons of responses, unlike sites in North America The only woman i felt i deep connection, was this woman. we first met online (video chat) in Dec/10. I visited PH in Feb/11, an incredible visit and again in May/11, a good visit. A few issues came up. I lost my job (forced internal transfer) that summer and she stuck by me. Since then, we've had our ups and downs, but are still going strong. We chat about 1 hour daily on videochat. I tried to bring her here on a temporary visit and was denied, so marriage is the only option to bring her now.

 

Money aside, i am also concerned that i will not find a "girl-next-door" where I live (toronto, Canada). The PH profiles place great emphasis on love, romance, family and yes security too. Nice, kind, dutiful guys are seen as a catch there! Its very different than those in the West, where you have to give them the world and they're still not happy. Ironically, though my gf is in a developing country, it was my western girlfriends who all expected i would buy them a condo with my savings and marry. this girl is the first woman to whom i proposed. i am 40, avg looks and don't want kids, so my pool of candidates is small in the West.

 

i appreciate people's feedback. i agree 50K is crazy for sex. what about 50K for a traditional wife. she takes care of the me/home and i take care of earning money and big decisions? I am actually very sweet with her. My caretaking instinct is very strong with her. I just wonder if the stress will be too much. Toronto is a very expensive city and really requires 2 good incomes. i have worked so hard to save/career, will i blow it all for a beautiful young girl next door? Will she lose those qualities upon living in the big city? (she lives in the provinces, rural, small, near water - tropical paradise). She tells me she just wants to be with me and is prepared to stay in the PH if I want to move there. I work in a very specialized role, all jobs are in toronto, so i need to stay here.

 

Some guys will flame me for what I'm about to say, but another concern, is her drive is much higher than mine. I'm 40 and quite happy to cuddle for an evening. She wants action, a lot, regularly. Its just not me now, maybe 10 years ago. If she comes here, i'll have to get in seriuos shape or she may seek action elsewhere. i do worry if i can keep up with her libido.

 

Finally, i'm a guy who does not do well with stress/change. i"m a saver and i keep my stress low (no canadian wife, kids, car, etc.) I keep it simple. I feel a huge conflict between my desire for love and my familiar desire for security/simplicity.

 

Has anyone here married with such conflicts going on in there head? Welcome all feedback - even if you think i'm a crazy fool

[Philosoraptor]

It sounds like your negative list is much larger than the positive list. I'd also say you seem more fear driven than anything else.

 

There are a ton of good women here in the west, you just need to put yourself out there and find them. If you want to find a good woman then spend time where the party types aren't. A library, volunteering, etc.

[carhill]

My best advice is to participate in a forum community specializing in ex-pat/K1/K3 -type relationships of western men with Filipino/SE Asian women and to pose your questions there. Back when I was doing this, forums like LS didn't exist and we connected through bulletin board services and e-mail lists. The practical information I gained was immeasurable in value and contributed to positive in-country experiences and helped me better process the few disappointments I received.

 

Conventional wisdom is that, yes, to a certain extent, she will become 'westernized' by immersion in the big city life in Toronto. The extent of it will depend strongly on her socialization and family influence. I've personally experienced anecdotes going both ways, so it's really unknown and a calculated risk.

 

If you like low stress, having an international wife is likely not the best way to achieve it. The men I know personally who have achieved successful marriages of such type for a decade or more are generally pretty worldly, well-traveled and pretty low-key, meaning that 'stress' doesn't affect them markedly.

 

IMO, if you're serious, review the parameters of getting married in the Philippines and your responsibilities as a result, and then, if acceptable, do that and process your spousal sponsorship application after returning home to Canada; six to twelve months is the general processing time. This presumes the lady cannot legally enter Canada otherwise. Budget money and time for spousal visits to her home country. You'll need a flexible work dynamic to make this work, at least until she's in-country. Stuff happens. A rigid job won't be conducive to a successful outcome, IMO.

 

Good luck.

[goodthingscome]

She's looking for a free ride to the US of A. Once she gets here and legal, then she'll start looking for her Knight in Shining Armour. The fact that you already have sex issues on top of her laziness doesn't bode well. As far as Western women, there are plenty who don't want children and will work. Tell her your fears and let her "actions" show you her character.

[Radu]

Where i live, there are some women who actually online date western men to have them send money.

Many times these women actually have a real bf on the side and provide the western guy with ocasional sex.

 

Outside of where she comes, this woman is full of red flags.

Add where she comes and how famous the Phillipines is [i heard some women there are married without papers and do this with western men only for citizenship], and the fact that in their society they will still have a huge hold onto her, and this situation of yours resembles walking into a minefield.

[Got it]

She's looking for a free ride to the US of A. Once she gets here and legal, then she'll start looking for her Knight in Shining Armour. The fact that you already have sex issues on top of her laziness doesn't bode well. As far as Western women, there are plenty who don't want children and will work. Tell her your fears and let her "actions" show you her character.

 

Really? Ummm, you say that he is Canadian right? So not quite the US.

[Radu]

Really? Ummm, you say that he is Canadian right? So not quite the US.

 

 

Even better tbfh.

 

Canadian system gives even more power to women who are married over their husbands, and with Canadian citizenship she can easily enter the US.

[darkmoon]

"She is unemployed, a university grad and comfortable, living at home with her family. (She left her job in 2007). She shows very little motivation to work/study"

 

please stop keeping her and see what she does, it might be ok

[YellowShark]

Run. Run away now! End of debate.

 

You are not that desperate that you need to sink $50,000 into a relationship that hasn't even got off the ground. She see's a desperate needy guy who will whisk her out of the Phillipines and pay for everything. You are the sucker who is going to do it. A lose lose for you. A win win for her.

 

And Toronto has 4 million people. You're telling me you can't find one single local girl there? Really? I don't buy that at all.

[2sure]

She is not going to work or go to school and she told you that. And that's ok if it's ok with you AND you can afford to be the only breadwinner forever. To go into debt for a wedding is just...huh? Why would someone do something so foolish? 25 Gs that you don't have...for a party.

 

You won't be able to pay it off because she is going to want to fly home or bring her family here twice a year. And since she won't have a job, it's on you.

 

If she were working or wanting to continue her education so that she could work, that would be different.

[SarahRose]

you are being scammed.

 

this happened to my friend. married the scammer on his 2nd day there. previously had been sending her money for this for that always some sob story.

 

if she hasn't worked in 5 years where do you think her money comes from? scamming men online or prostitution.

 

it turns out she was already married to someone else, was about 10 years older than she said she was, had several kids, and even her name wasn't real.

 

the marriage was some paperwork done by some guy in a shopping mall there for several hundred dollars.

 

did that stop my friend, no he paid for a visa for her to come over and she is now divorcing him and she and her real husband are living in his house.

 

what did you spend $25k on for 2 trips and a ring?

i can fly to the US and have a wonderful posh time on maybe 7k.

i took 2 people to hong kong and stayed in a 5 star hotel and shopped until we dropped for that amount too.

 

do you have a CENOMAR for her? although every document there can be forced and filed as if true if you have enough money.

 

also these ummm traditional women tend to be insane raving lunatics when they don't get their way.

[SarahRose]

Hi everyone. I'm engaged to a beautiful young woman. I'm 39, living in North America. Average looks, good job. My fiancee lives in the Philippines, she's 31, beautiful. She is unemployed, a university grad and comfortable, living at home with her family. (She left her job in 2007). She shows very little motivation to work/study (i offered to pay for her schooling and she declined multiple times). My question is this. I've spent $25,000 so far (2 trips, ring), I am going to spend another $25,000 plus in a wedding, honeymoon, trip to North America before she sets foot in my country and we start life together. She'll need probably $10,000 - $15,000 start-up (medical, dental, clothes, education, social, etc) This will put us $40,000 in debt starting out.

 

I only have mortgage debt now. Am I crazy for spending so much on someone. Should i just end things, stay out of debt and find someone local. Realistically, it would probably take 1 - 2 years to get to the same stage with someone local, who would probably be older/less attractive/less committed.

 

I don't know what to do. I love this girl. I can't sleep at night with the worry about money. I don't want to give her up, but i worry constantly about money thinking of moving forward. If i bring her here, I need to be strong, not worried about money all the time. What should I do?

 

Thoughts?

 

your ego is going to cost you a lot of money unfortunately.

 

the only thing this girl is committed to is a Canadian visa and your wallet.

do you have hoards of young beautiful filipinas that are also canadian citizens wanting to date you there?

[Radu]

I know a guy over here who worked as a private investigator.

Over some beer talk he told me of a few cases.

 

One that came to mind after what Sarah said is when he was hired by this English guy to follow a local girl, about 25 with a degree but which kept getting 'hit by life' as it were every few months and required money being sent here.

He followed her for about 2 weeks, and this guy cried when he saw the report.

His innocent little flower with a cance stricken mother turned out to be a girl engaged to a guy, who used the money to buy expensive phone, clothes, and car.

Her mother was OK, she had no problems whatsoever.

 

I don't know if he sued her for the money back [can be considered a loan here and you have 3yrs to ask for it back if there is a papertrail], but i do know that he got taken in for 40k pounds by 2006.

 

To make it even more obvious, do this exercise.

Go to the site Collarme [dating site for ppl into BDSM], and do a search for women 20+ in your area in Canada. Then do one in the Philippines and one in some Eastern Europe country ... like Bulgaria. Might even want to try in France too. Use same paramenters.

 

When you are done, compare :

- how many put their pictures up [to attract males]

- how many are willing to relocate

- just plain physical hotness level, i will bet you anything that the ones in poorer countries all look good and their profiles are ideal

 

International dating, if it isn't somewhat improv, if it involves a girl from a poor country, if it involves you supporting her without a prenup is a SCAM.

 

You are better off going to a prostitute, at least they are honest about the price.

[avon20]

It sounds like she is marrying for convenience and not love.

[Stupid Girl]

If not for you saying you don't have kids, I'd be certain you were my dad. He did exactly the same thing, married a filipina lady and brought her over to Canada (Toronto, in fact) with a marriage visa. Then slowly, over the years, began having to pay for more and more of her family members to immigrate over to Canada. My dad was never super rich, but this certainly drained his resources, and now they're living in poverty and she's about to (or already has) left him.

 

It seems to be some sort of cultural scam, where these younger, usually attractive women prey on moderately wealthy, older single men from large cities and have them pay for them to move over to their country, and end up taking complete advantage of them. I guess they're just so desperate to get out of where they are and into western life, that they'll do anything.

 

But still, I'm had pressed to feel pity for a man like my dad, or you, with your "I'll have to settle for somebody less attractive in Toronto" attitude (lol really? What about of the tens of thousands of filipinas, not to mention every other race, living all over Toronto?). But to be honest, it's that pathetic attitude that's preventing you from getting a real woman closeby. If you think this is best best you can do, then have at it.

[Nicomis]

As you probably know, Philipinas are a breath of fresh air compared to U.S. and Canadian women, and all their "feminism", which is not very feminine. However, you have to be careful. If you met her through one of those sites, it's likely a scam. You can go to those countries (Philippines,Russia, Poland, etc..) and meet good, traditional, women, who are untouched by western feminazi missandrist culture, but the good ones are not on those sites, and likely don't want to leave their homeland. Also, the Asian girls are big on the send money to my family thing, and they are competitive by nature, so bringing her to Canada, would subject her to the influences of the western women, who would likely go out of their way to make sure she knew how a good western feminist thinks. And she would be ruined anyway. I saw a good friend's nice, sweet, Thai, housewife, turn into a raving, money-hungry, b#$@h, after some American girls got hold of her.

[Radu]

As you probably know, Philipinas are a breath of fresh air compared to U.S. and Canadian women, and all their "feminism", which is not very feminine. However, you have to be careful. If you met her through one of those sites, it's likely a scam. You can go to those countries (Philippines,Russia, Poland, etc..) and meet good, traditional, women, who are untouched by western feminazi missandrist culture, but the good ones are not on those sites, and likely don't want to leave their homeland. Also, the Asian girls are big on the send money to my family thing, and they are competitive by nature, so bringing her to Canada, would subject her to the influences of the western women, who would likely go out of their way to make sure she knew how a good western feminist thinks. And she would be ruined anyway. I saw a good friend's nice, sweet, Thai, housewife, turn into a raving, money-hungry, b#$@h, after some American girls got hold of her.

 

After your post i immediately thought of this.

[canseagull2011]

Hi Everyone,

 

Thanks for all the advice and sharing of stories. I told my fiancee I could not marry this December. I explained I was concerned about many things, including going into serious debt for a wedding/honeymoon and that in my gut, i felt overwhelmed by proceeding with a wedding. She was heartbroken, but we are still talking. The fact is, i do love her and want her to be happy, even if that is eventually not with me. We considered our options. I suggested she come to Canada as a caregiver student, but our gov't would probably reject her application (lack of capital, income, ties to PH). They denied her on a tourist visa earlier this year. so now the plan is, she will attend caregiver training school in PH (I am paying). A family will sponsor her as a live-in caregiver under canada's live-in caregiver program. Once she does 2 years as a live-in, she can apply for permanent residence. We can get to know each other, in person, in canada and she is free to stay with me or choose someone else and still have a shot at the "beautiful life" in Canada. I am not on the hook for sponsorship or marriage.

 

I must admit a part of me is sad. I so wish i had the confidence in us and money to bring her here as my wife now. But, I know the best way for us to know each other is the weekly date thing, as I have with past gf. the big disadvantage with this option, I will not be party to her "firsts" (first movie, first time to certain tourist attractions, etc). Oh well, its probably best. If she decides she can do better, its better it before marriage. If we are meant to be together, then we will spend time together and our path will naturally move this way. Its hard to wait on a possibility. Its 6 months to train, she has to get a family to sponsor her and then its 15 months for a visa, minimum. Meanwhile, we are both getting older...

 

i guess i feel a certain innocence and chemistry has changed. they say romantic love lasts about 2 years and its 1 1/2 years, so right on schedule, eh A part of me is also concerned she will "trade up" once she arrives.I miss her.

 

thanks to everyone for sharing their concerns/suggestions. In the end, i think i did the right thing by calling off the wedding, even it lengthens the process. i hope i can help bring her here.

 

Here's a question - what should i do if she drops the school? its quite far to her home and she is concerned about getting home safely at night. (i recall waiting for a trike at night - her concern is justified). do i go ahead and gamble, marry OR walk away...I really want to help her to her future. I find it hard to walk away. I also still very much love her, even if I have doubts as to whether we will survive long-term.

 

Thoughts?

 

thanks

[BluGamma]

So this is how the world has ended up? Money taking preference over someone you love? ok understandable you don't want to get 40k into debt straight off the bat, but you're not spending 40-50k on a woman just for sex, thats a stupid way to think.

 

Im sorry but i have strong opinions to people who think they paying certain amount of money on a woman just for the sex.

 

back on to topic, its understandable you don't want all that debt, as ive suggested to many people, Talking to your SO is a good way to go about it. even if it does seem abit... blunt.