Red Flags

[turnera]

Again, I see zero evidence that either women or men have an edge on bad behavior.

IDK. Aside from wanting sex morning noon and night, guys I've known don't compare with how harmful women can be. IMO, it's just part of our caveman genetics: the weaker sex has to be more cunning to stay alive since they can't club their way into getting what they want. I think women just evolved into operating on a 'higher plane' when it comes to mechanics of relationships and friendships.

[turnera]

I'm not so sure that you need to be romantically interested in a woman to care about who her friends are. Whenever I come across a woman at school/work/male friend's new girlfriend, and she feels the need to explain that she gets along better with men, it brings up a big red flag.

 

It makes me wonder if I need to watch out for her. It feels like she is warning me (and the others) that she may not get along with us. She may be a perfectly okay person who ends up becoming a friend, but still. That's not something that I like to hear from someone I've just met.

*shrug* I get along better with men because I trust them more to be honest and real. My DD22 turned out the same way, and I never told her that; she's just as observant as I am.

[Spark1111]

I'm not so sure that you need to be romantically interested in a woman to care about who her friends are. Whenever I come across a woman at school/work/male friend's new girlfriend, and she feels the need to explain that she gets along better with men, it brings up a big red flag.

 

It makes me wonder if I need to watch out for her. It feels like she is warning me (and the others) that she may not get along with us. She may be a perfectly okay person who ends up becoming a friend, but still. That's not something that I like to hear from someone I've just met.

 

Why Spiralout? What would you be watching out for?

[MissBee]

I'm not so sure that you need to be romantically interested in a woman to care about who her friends are. Whenever I come across a woman at school/work/male friend's new girlfriend, and she feels the need to explain that she gets along better with men, it brings up a big red flag.

 

It makes me wonder if I need to watch out for her. It feels like she is warning me (and the others) that she may not get along with us. She may be a perfectly okay person who ends up becoming a friend, but still. That's not something that I like to hear from someone I've just met.

 

I feel the same as well. Every woman I've met who says this, I can predict how they are going to act. It never fails.

 

I listen keenly to people, as I realize even some seemingly small things, reveal A LOT about them.

Edited June 12, 2012 by MissBee

[SpiralOut]

*shrug* I get along better with men because I trust them more to be honest and real. My DD22 turned out the same way, and I never told her that; she's just as observant as I am.

I trust men more easily too (in friendships). However my deepest friendships tend to be with women - the few that I feel able to trust - since I find there are certain walls and barriers in place with men especially if they are married. I don't mind if women get along better with men; it just concerns me if they decide for some reason to tell me about it when I only just met them...

 

Why Spiralout? What would you be watching out for?

If a woman I don't know too well decides to tell me (or others) she gets along better with men, and nobody even asked her about it, that indicates she feels insecure about it. Like maybe she's worried she'll be judged for it, so she explains herself so we don't misunderstand her. Which leads me to wonder what sorts of things happened that caused her to feel misunderstood? What sorts of things is she worried might happen between herself and me that would cause us to dislike each other?

 

It's possible, yes, that she just got burned in the past and she might be worried that I am a bitch. HOWEVER, it's also possible that her female friends dumped HER due to something SHE was doing wrong. Maybe she likes to put you down, flirt with your boyfriends, share your secrets, backstab you. In other words, maybe she's one of those women who make it difficult for women to trust each other in the first place.

 

So I would be watching her for warning signs of these things. It's just not good when upon meeting someone new, they basically tell me (in different words) that they don't expect to get along with me.

 

I feel the same as well. Every woman I've met who says this, I can predict how they are going to act. It never fails.

 

I listen keenly to people, as I realize even some seemingly small things, reveal A LOT about them.

 

I agree. It's amazing how the smallest little things can tell you so much.

Edited June 12, 2012 by SpiralOut

[Got it]

I tend to have more male friends growing up as I was a tomboy and found male friends to be less drama than my female friends (in general).

 

Now? My closest friend is dMM but my other close friends are females. I have found women that are less drama and more "dude" like which works for me. I still have my closest female friend from childhood as well so she has known me for AGES!

[turnera]

I feel the same as well. Every woman I've met who says this, I can predict how they are going to act. It never fails.

How are they going to act? I'm curious as to what you think I would do or how I would be. I'll bet dollars you'll be wrong.

[woinlove]

How are they going to act? I'm curious as to what you think I would do or how I would be. I'll bet dollars you'll be wrong.

 

When a woman says she gets along better with men because, for example, she thinks they are more honest or real than women, I would expect that woman might not to be that honest or real with me.

 

Whenever someone makes a negative statement about half the world's population in a way that suggests they base their choices on that negative view (such as choosing friends) I think it is likely the person is projecting something internal to themselves onto those billions of people.

 

I am attracted to friends and lovers who have a positive outlook toward life and toward people. I'm attracted to people who like both men and women and like children, and who feel a special kinship with their own gender too. For people who are not like that, I look for something internal that makes them think they way they do. It does not make me want to re-examine half the world's population and wonder if there is something wrong with them. That's the way I view it.

Edited June 13, 2012 by woinlove

[turnera]

When a woman says she gets along better with men because, for example, she thinks they are more honest or real than women, I would expect that woman might not to be that honest or real with me.

I am extremely honest with people. So that assumption is not true en masse. My opinion of women has nothing to do with how honest I am when I deal with people.

 

Whenever someone makes a negative statement about half the world's population in a way that suggests they base their choices on that negative view (such as choosing friends) I think it is likely the person is projecting something internal to themselves onto those billions of people.

Maybe. But what does that have to do with whether that person is a good person or not? I have Toxic Shame, but I also go out of my way to help every single person I know - and those I don't know! So to choose not to be my friend or lover based on me saying I'd rather have a male friend means that you would lose out on a friend who would be loyal to you for 40 years and never hurt you.

 

I am attracted to friends and lovers who have a positive outlook toward life and toward people. I'm attracted to people who like both men and women and like children, and who feel a special kinship with their own gender too. For people who are not like that, I look for something internal that makes them think they way they do. It does not make me want to re-examine half the world's population and wonder if there is something wrong with them. That's the way I view it.

I don't think there is something 'wrong' with women. I just don't choose to be in their line of site in case I become a target. Nowadays, all my friends are females. But I did not seek them out; they were friends from high school 40 years ago and they were friends from work. They are good friends and I chose carefully. And in my field, nearly everyone is female so there's little opportunity to make male friends. I do have a positive outlook on life despite being married to a man for 35 years so negative he can't go one hour without saying something negative about people. I always look for the good in situations, I always seek to help people and make the world a better place, I'm always the first to volunteer to help people and situations. And yet I still think women will hurt you faster than a man. *shrug* It's just my evaluation based on past experience, past observation, and being a student of sociology and psychology. Women, the physically/sociologically weaker sex, have had to survive or get ahead by being smarter than men in day to day dealings; it's inbred in us to overthink and look for opportunities, whether we realize we're doing it or not. And THAT is what makes me prefer a male friendship.

[woinlove]

I am extremely honest with people. So that assumption is not true en masse. My opinion of women has nothing to do with how honest I am when I deal with people.

 

Maybe. But what does that have to do with whether that person is a good person or not? I have Toxic Shame, but I also go out of my way to help every single person I know - and those I don't know! So to choose not to be my friend or lover based on me saying I'd rather have a male friend means that you would lose out on a friend who would be loyal to you for 40 years and never hurt you.

 

I don't think there is something 'wrong' with women. I just don't choose to be in their line of site in case I become a target. Nowadays, all my friends are females. But I did not seek them out; they were friends from high school 40 years ago and they were friends from work. They are good friends and I chose carefully. And in my field, nearly everyone is female so there's little opportunity to make male friends. I do have a positive outlook on life despite being married to a man for 35 years so negative he can't go one hour without saying something negative about people. I always look for the good in situations, I always seek to help people and make the world a better place, I'm always the first to volunteer to help people and situations. And yet I still think women will hurt you faster than a man. *shrug* It's just my evaluation based on past experience, past observation, and being a student of sociology and psychology. Women, the physically/sociologically weaker sex, have had to survive or get ahead by being smarter than men in day to day dealings; it's inbred in us to overthink and look for opportunities, whether we realize we're doing it or not. And THAT is what makes me prefer a male friendship.

 

It seems that what your words here are saying is that you think you are so much better than most women since you say you find women in general to be less honest and real and quick to hurt others but don't think you yourself are like that at all. Again, that is not an attitude I would look for in a friend. But that is just me. I don't know you at all, only trying to understand you words here which are negative to women in general and yet point out you are not like most women.

[turnera]

I'm not like most women. I was raised a tomboy. And I made a conscious effort to be different from the girls I grew up with who I saw like that. "So much better?" lol - exact kind of words I heard from DD21's female friends, while she was growing up.

 

But again, as I SAID, my interpretation of women is not a dis, but an observation. Of the 20 or so girls my DD21 has known in the last 10 years, all but 2 of them have started rumors, stolen a boyfriend, discredited her, and outright lied. Of the 20 or so guys she's known, the only one who has done anything to her was a boyfriend, and he was just abusive.

Edited June 13, 2012 by turnera

[woinlove]

I'm not like most women. I was raised a tomboy. And I made a conscious effort to be different from the girls I grew up with who I saw like that. "So much better?" lol - exact kind of words I heard from DD21's female friends, while she was growing up.

 

But again, as I SAID, my interpretation of women is not a dis, but an observation. Of the 20 or so girls my DD21 has known in the last 10 years, all but 2 of them have started rumors, stolen a boyfriend, discredited her, and outright lied. Of the 20 or so guys she's known, the only one who has done anything to her was a boyfriend, and he was just abusive.

 

What do you mean by lol? Are you saying you don't consider honest and real to be so much better than dishonest and fake? If not, then why aren't you happy choosing dishonest and fake people? I say better because you say women are less honest, less real, and more likely to hurt others than men are, but you are more like a man and honest. How is that not saying you think you are better than most women?

 

For the record, I don't see any difference on average in honesty, cheating, stealing, etc in women versus men. That's my observation. I'm grateful I don't have the experience of meeting mostly women who behave bad, because thinking so poorly of one's own gender is not an attractive trait in my opinion.

Edited June 13, 2012 by woinlove

[turnera]

What do you mean by lol? Are you saying you don't consider honest and real to be so much better than dishonest and fake? If not, then why aren't you happy choosing dishonest and fake people? I say better because you say women are less honest, less real, and more likely to hurt others than men are, but you are more like a man and honest. How is that not saying you think you are better than most women?

 

For the record, I don't see any difference on average in honesty, cheating, etc in women versus men. That's my observation. I'm grateful I don't have your experience, because thinking so poorly of one's own gender is not an attractive trait in my opinion.

I was laughing because of your choice of words which, as I said, could have come directly from my daughter's old 16 year old friends. "You think you're so much better than me, don't you? Well, you've got another thing coming..." It just seems like something a reactive teenager would say, that's all.

 

When did I ever say I was better? I said that, in my experience and in my opinion, women are genetically, psychologically, and sociologically to use methods other than brute force to achieve what they want. I also said that I was not condemning females for BEING so, merely that I personally choose not to put myself in their line of fire. I'm sure I have the exact same capacity to be the exact same way, were I not so reticent to let my 'femaleness' show through.

 

You can run with this if you want, say I'm a woman-hater or something, but you'd have to twist my words to get that. I know lots of women who ARE kind and giving and wonderful friends; I also know lots of women who choose personal satisfaction over the satisfaction of being a good friend and person and who have no compulsion against using their abilities and subconscious tendencies to get what they want. These forums are RIFE with such women. The men? They usually tend to either be horndogs or abusive, the ones who cause trouble. The women? Much more dysfunctional beliefs and behavior. In my 10+ years of giving advice on forums such as this one.

[turnera]

thinking so poorly of one's own gender is not an attractive trait in my opinion.

Neither is attacking people who don't think like you.

[woinlove]

I was laughing because of your choice of words which, as I said, could have come directly from my daughter's old 16 year old friends. "You think you're so much better than me, don't you? Well, you've got another thing coming..." It just seems like something a reactive teenager would say, that's all.

 

When did I ever say I was better? I said that, in my experience and in my opinion, women are genetically, psychologically, and sociologically to use methods other than brute force to achieve what they want. I also said that I was not condemning females for BEING so, merely that I personally choose not to put myself in their line of fire. I'm sure I have the exact same capacity to be the exact same way, were I not so reticent to let my 'femaleness' show through.

 

You can run with this if you want, say I'm a woman-hater or something, but you'd have to twist my words to get that. I know lots of women who ARE kind and giving and wonderful friends; I also know lots of women who choose personal satisfaction over the satisfaction of being a good friend and person and who have no compulsion against using their abilities and subconscious tendencies to get what they want. These forums are RIFE with such women. The men? They usually tend to either be horndogs or abusive, the ones who cause trouble. The women? Much more dysfunctional beliefs and behavior. In my 10+ years of giving advice on forums such as this one.

 

I think my above post explained clearly why I use the term "better". IMO, someone who is honest and displays integrity is behaving better than someone who is not honest, steals, hurts others. That is my opinion. I value honesty and integrity as positive traits and am attracted to people who display them, as well as a whole host of other traits I am attracted to, like compassion, thinking well of others in general, having a positive outlook, etc.

 

We seem to disagree on whether women are less honest and less real, and treat others more poorly than men do. And we seem to disagree on what it means for a woman to think other women behave negatively in general, more so than men do, but she herself does not. Again, the traits you associate with women relative to men (such as the examples below) are things I consider to be negative.

 

Aside from wanting sex morning noon and night, guys I've known don't compare with how harmful women can be

I get along better with men because I trust them more to be honest and real.

I still think women will hurt you faster than a man.

 

and this one is what I would consider knowing or picking out an extreme sample of female behavior relative to male behavior - with girls 18 times more likely to display bad behavior. Again, not my experience.

 

But again, as I SAID, my interpretation of women is not a dis, but an observation. Of the 20 or so girls my DD21 has known in the last 10 years, all but 2 of them have started rumors, stolen a boyfriend, discredited her, and outright lied. Of the 20 or so guys she's known, the only one who has done anything to her was a boyfriend, and he was just abusive.

Edited June 13, 2012 by woinlove