Can emotional abuse be disguised as jokes?

[oso]

I have a boyfriend who is constantly making "jokes" that really feel like put-downs. He also likes to "break my balls". I'm not exaggerating when I say that this is literally almost every other sentence with him, and many of the same ones are repeated over and over.

 

I have told him many times how much I dislike it and am hurt by it (codependent), but he tells me it is just his personality, that he doesn't know he is doing it, and that if I ignore it it will disappear. He says that I can "fix" him.

 

So now, although I try to ignore it and am getting better at not getting bothered, and often even find it funny in the moment, I come away feeling extremely uneasy and dissatisfied. I don't know how to stand up to it without being a nag, especially since it's so frequent.

 

Is this manipulative or abusive? If so, why don't I see more women talking about this on the internet?

 

Is it possible to stand up to this and repair the relationship?

 

If so, HOW?

Edited June 11, 2012 by oso

[CopingGal]

Hi. I dated a man that man joked about my weight and in the end, he wasn't joking. He was fat and lost weight. But he told me I was too fat for a commitment.

 

I was in a relationship with another insensitive man. I thought couple's therapy would try to change him. But he only pretended to take the therapy seriously.

 

I have learned to not try to change someone...either you accept them or your don't. I tried really hard to accept insensitive men, to swallow my hurt feelings all the time so I didn't nag at them, so I could accept them. It doesn't work.

 

If this person makes you feel bad a lot, I say leave him...period!

[d'Arthez]

CopingGal is right. He is making excuses for poor behavior.

 

I'd also add, that part of the issues may be caused by your codependency? Both in terms of staying in the relationship, as well as the fact that you laugh about his jokes and put-downs?

[oso]

No doubt, the codependency is an issue. But I have come a very long way (at the beginning it was because I felt enormous guilt, which I think he largely manufactured, but since the guilt is gone I'm a 1000 times better). I'm generally a very independent person and I do not need to be with someone. I've been single for years at a time between relationships. In fact I'm quite happy when we break up and are apart and I think it is over (after being sad at first), but when he wants me back I feel obligated to go. So you see I have a very strange version of codependency. I suppose it is a matter of feeling responsible for making him happy and an extremely deep-set feeling of loyalty (and he knows how to guilt-trip me really well.) But also, of course, respecting my needs and feelings less than his.

 

Re laughing at the jokes. I don't laugh at all of them. Some of them are awful and clearly mean. But others actually ARE truly funny in person, and he is very charming. I can't help laughing with him at something that I find funny on the surface, especially when he's smiling and laughing himself. And if he maintains distance then we see each other again, I suppose I feel relief at just being with him.

 

It's only afterward, and when it's repeated so often. Also, that there is not NEARLY enough positive reinforcement to balance it out. I told him that last week and he has been trying to be more positive, too.

[darkmoon]

are you waiting to be pregnant and wed with this guy?

if you don't like the heat of the stove get on the kitchen

in your case i'd say run!

[d'Arthez]

No doubt, the codependency is an issue. But I have come a very long way (at the beginning it was because I felt enormous guilt, which I think he largely manufactured, but since the guilt is gone I'm a 1000 times better).

Whether or not he manufactured the guilt (I don't know a thing about your relationship), this is a huge red flag why you should be very careful with whom you get in a relationship. Bad relationships can increase your vulnerabilities and codependent tendencies. If he has picked up on that, relationship dynamics can get messed up and emotionally destructive.

 

In fact I'm quite happy when we break up and are apart and I think it is over (after being sad at first), but when he wants me back I feel obligated to go. So you see I have a very strange version of codependency.

It is not a strange version of codependency at all. What you are describing is yourself as someone who wants to have a project on her hands, to "fix" a guy. He is well aware of that (hence the effective guilt-trips). You have to ask yourself if you can and want to do better than this.

 

It's only afterward, and when it's repeated so often. Also, that there is not NEARLY enough positive reinforcement to balance it out. I told him that last week and he has been trying to be more positive, too.

Changing the appearance of something that is broken, and does not work for you, does not mean it is fixed. It is merely hiding the defects.

[KathyM]

That is a form of emotional abuse/verbal abuse. Making disparaging jokes about you, and then acting like you are lacking in humor or can't take a joke when you object to his put downs disguised as jokes. Get rid of this guy. He's abusive. Don't try to figure out how to handle him. He will only get worse over time. If you want to read about the dynamics of this type of abuse, you could buy the book The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans. In there, you will see this behavior portrayed, what causes it, and how to respond to it if you decide to stay with the guy. But I would very much recommend you let this guy go. That's not the kind of bf that makes for a good relationship, and his passive-aggressive form of verbal abuse will only get worse over time.

[TripLine]

If I can't make fun of my friends, they are really not my friends. I say things like, "woman, please" and things like that but you can tell if someone is angry or not afterwords.

[oso]

We each feel that we have strengths that the other lacks. We've discussed that. We each feel that we can grow through the relationship.

 

As I said, the codependency has improved. I've become stronger. In certain areas of my life I am stronger than I was before the relationship, he has helped me to be less emotional and to take more action in my life.

 

You may be right that I want some kind of "project" on my hands, but no less than him. We both want to change the other, to an extent, and yet at a certain level we respect our differences.

 

At a very basic level I'm trying to understand what it means to have emotional intelligence and to sit with another person without judgment but perhaps be loving at the same time. I've been asked my whole life to be this for others, I was "parentified" or whatever, and I've unfairly asked it of my parents, too. I was always angry with my parents, and I'm afraid my children will be the same with me and I won't be strong enough to deal with it appropriately, as my parents were not strong enough. I know I'm not supposed to "parent" my boyfriend, but I also care about him immensely, and I certainly don't try to control him.

 

I dated another man who was incredibly nice an giving in all the opposite ways, but JUST as mean in different ways. Every person on this earth can have a mean streak myself included. Maybe it would be easier to hash out problems in a more stable relationship, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be there to deal with just the same.

 

Project or no project this may be, I'm very busy with many other work and life goals and friends.

Edited June 11, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[oso]

Trip Line,

 

I make fun of my friends too. In fact his manner of joking has rubbed off on me and I do it with a lot of them, work colleagues too, and they all usually like it. The difference is that if they were to ever tell me to stop, that it bothered them, I would instantly comply. And nothing is mean-spirited. He has told me that sometimes he jokes when his feelings are hurt, and I can tell he gets mean-spirited at those times. I think you know when the joking has gotten to be too much or it's mean.

 

Why this is troubling is because it can be hard to tell.

[SarahRose]

what exactly are these jokes? what does he say?

[shayla]

Life is too short to be around people that say they care but act like your boyfriend does.

 

If these are your friends, then who needs enemies? You can stay and be the butt of his jokes and suck up the way you feel, or you can get rid of him and meet someone that won't treat you this way.

 

Do not waste your best years with someone that treats you in a hateful way. Being alone is better.

[ShannanDope]

This is a form of verbal abuse, absolutely. I know this because I had to seek professional help after my last long-term relationship ended. He was exactly what you have described. These jokes are his own way of taking out his true feelings and frustrations on you wile maintaining an excuse for being an ass because he's jus "joking".

I'm not going to say leave him NOW. I believe that when two people really love each other that they are capable of overcoming anything. However, it is not your job to "fix him". That is on his hands, and if he's not willing to do it after a certain amount I time, then you don't mean as much to him as he does to you. If his is the case, then you deserve more than this. You are diamonds and gold.

[freestyle]

It's NOT a joke if only one person is laughing.

[oso]

Thanks guys, that helps a lot. Really.

 

There is this person on the web who feels that it really is possible to repair a relationship. I guess the secret is to learn to somehow assertively NOT accept the abuse while not really getting angry and still being available for the other person. I've been trying to do that but I know I'm not getting it right. It's extremely hard and painful and maybe subconsciously I just don't want to do it. I feel like I should though for some reason but it's so much pressure and I'm not happy.

 

Middle chid. Peacemaker in my family since I was a little girl. Stood up for and took care of my siblings and even my mother against my stepfather even when they wouldn't say a word and not for me either when he went against me. arggghhhhh

[2sunny]

The answer to your question is yes!

 

If "jokes" cause hurt feelings - its no joke - its his truth designed as jokes. Which means he is a lousy communicator and does t express his true feelings directly.

[d'Arthez]

Get out then. You seem to be repeating the same dysfunctional patterns as to when you were a little girl - and that did not make you happy. I don't see how putting up with this guy's abuse would make you happy either.

[2sunny]

Thanks guys, that helps a lot. Really.

 

There is this person on the web who feels that it really is possible to repair a relationship. I guess the secret is to learn to somehow assertively NOT accept the abuse while not really getting angry and still being available for the other person. I've been trying to do that but I know I'm not getting it right. It's extremely hard and painful and maybe subconsciously I just don't want to do it. I feel like I should though for some reason but it's so much pressure and I'm not happy.

 

Middle chid. Peacemaker in my family since I was a little girl. Stood up for and took care of my siblings and even my mother against my stepfather even when they wouldn't say a word and not for me either when he went against me. arggghhhhh

 

Tell him it hurts you - therefore its not a joke to you! Putting his actions back onto HIM.

[oso]

2sunny I have done so. He did better at first. If you like I can message you and explain but it's more information than I feel comfortable putting on a public website.

 

d'Arthez for many people it's not about being happy it's about doing what we're led to believe is right and good and necessary. I guess to make a change I have to learn to value my own happiness, learn not to feel responsible, etc.

[oso]

*which actually I do value my happiness and I do as much as possible to make myself happy, but I'm still dragged down.

[d'Arthez]

d'Arthez for many people it's not about being happy it's about doing what we're led to believe is right and good and necessary. I guess to make a change I have to learn to value my own happiness, learn not to feel responsible, etc.

Exactly. Having taken on the role of a child peacemaker, it is very likely that you engage in the same behaviors as an adult, and try to structure your relationships in the same way.

 

The essential problem for you is though, that resolving conflicts in a relationship is not something that will make you happy. You are responsible for your own happiness, and if your partner can complement that, great! But if he is actively undermining it, time and again, you really need to look at the relationship, and consider how much it contributes to your life.

 

For him the problem is, that it is his way of dealing with situations and people, when things are not fully to his liking. I do have the impression that he is not really sticking to the boundaries, and also that for the sake of keeping peace you let him get away with A LOT.

 

It is good to be looking after yourself, and making certain that these disruptive behaviors either stop, or become inconsequential for you. The latter is highly risky, because of your past as a child peacemaker - his comments and jokes will chip away at your self-belief and that is something you should avoid.

[2sunny]

Does honoring yourself leave room for others to talk about you or to you in a negative light?

[lvixen]

I know the last post was 10 days ago, but I really feel I should add to this. I posted about this yesterday in the break up forums.

 

My ex, whom I've broken up with yesterday, used to make constant jokes at my expense, sometimes outright calling me names like sl*t for no reason whatsoever. The last one he made was about a week ago when I had a really bad case of acne, he said that I looked like a zombie out of a horror flick. When I pointed out that it is hurtful he said, "I only like tolerant people." When I asked him what he meant he said that it's a part of his personality and that he doesn't mean to be abusive. But apparently I'm being too confrontational by "nagging" him about him hurting my feelings, that it is not his fault (it's mine apparently) and that I just don't like that side of him it seems.

 

Well, that was enough for me and I promptly removed him from Skype and Facebook. He told a friend that it was extremely juvenile of me, like calling me names wasn't? Making jokes at my expense wasn't?

 

I started to notice how extremely controlling he is, too. If you don't do things HIS way he gets upset, throws a tantrum and threatens to not be your friend anymore.

 

I should've known he had 0 respect for me; the writing was on the wall. First sign was when he introduced me to a friend of his, he pointed out my breasts to him, making gestures on his own chest about mine. When I told him to not do that anymore (in private) that it upset me he did it to the next friend anyways. I really got upset now and asked him to apologize on the phone. He said, "what for? I did nothing wrong," and hung up the phone on me, leaving ME to apologize to HIM for bringing it up in the first place. OF COURSE I never got an apology from him.

 

He did stop for a while but I could tell it was making him extremely uncomfortable.

 

I know you love your boyfriend, like how I love mine, but in the end they do not change without extensive counselling. It sounds to me like you have low self-esteem, like I do, which we both need to work on. You do NOT deserve to be abused, and YES, it is abuse!

[Radu]

That is a form of emotional abuse/verbal abuse. Making disparaging jokes about you, and then acting like you are lacking in humor or can't take a joke when you object to his put downs disguised as jokes. Get rid of this guy. He's abusive. Don't try to figure out how to handle him. He will only get worse over time. If you want to read about the dynamics of this type of abuse, you could buy the book The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans. In there, you will see this behavior portrayed, what causes it, and how to respond to it if you decide to stay with the guy. But I would very much recommend you let this guy go. That's not the kind of bf that makes for a good relationship, and his passive-aggressive form of verbal abuse will only get worse over time.

 

This really, being in a relationship with someone like this is hell on earth.

[spiderowl]

I've known people to make jokes I've found uncomfortable and offensive and I realised they are not really jokes and that they are the person's real feelings disguised. By saying it's a joke, he's telling you not to believe what your instict and intuition is telling you. I suppose it is a form of abuse as it's intended to undermine your trust in your own judgement and your morale. You don't have to put up with anyone saying nasty things about you in any format - whatever they claim they are doing. Instead, take a moment to think of how it makes you feel. If that feeling is repeated regularly then it is hurting you. Under such circumstances, a person is likely to feel the repeated hurts and eventually become depressed and unhappy about it without really understanding why they 'can't take a joke'. Trust your instincts.

 

By the way, Sigmund Freud wrote an amazing book about unconscious intentions and it mentions jokes. It's a little heavy-going if you're not interested in psychology, but I found it fascinating (yes, I'm weird that way ). It's called 'The Psychopathology of Every Life'. This may be the book that spawned the idea of the 'Freudian slip'.