Would You Admit?

[MissBee]

I really didn't care much about strangers at all, although I would have answered (and did) the BW's questions because I didn't like dishonesty and while I didn't care, I recognized my choices were affecting her M.

 

I think this is an important point and something I wonder about.

 

You can not care about how your actions affect other people, but understand it. Then perhaps you neither care nor understand. Then still, you can care but not understand.

 

While in the A, I didn't care enough about a stranger to stop doing it, but I did feel badly and I did understand how my actions and choosing to be with him could affect her life. In the A it was not as if I thought about her with every move I made...most people don't and wouldn't. BUT if asked to think about it or if I did think about it, there was a clear line of connection there in my mind. I didn't feel like what I was doing had absolutely nothing to do with her. I admittedly don't understand how someone can truly believe this....I understand not caring if it affects her or not. That I get. But to truly believe that your relationship with someone else's husband is absolutely none of that person's business, I don't understand how one logically conceptualizes this.

[Got it]

I would strongly recommend no OW to trust the BS. She certainly does not have your best interests at heart. Nor would I as the BS trust the OW. From what I have read on various support sites, the OW is more often than not still in contact with the MM discussing how to deal with the BS.

 

It amazes me how any woman, BS or OW, could trust her counterpart, OW or BS, more than the man she is in a relationship with. The ground of that relationship seems very weak indeed to me in such a case.

 

Because I had no desire to lie to her I did not speak with her. She did contact me via email but asked no questions so I had no questions to answer.

[Spark1111]

I would seek answers from him. If I did not trust those answers I would not have a R worth fighting for.

 

If I found a loving text not to me ( nor his mum) I would not care who it was to. W, OOW, what difference would it make? If someone tells you they love only you then they have no business to be sending loving texts to others. Aside from their mums, of course, but those texts would usually be different. If I found such a text and I spoke to him and did not like, or did not trust, the answer, I would certainly not approach the recipient. I'd resolve things with him one way or another, whichever outcome I chose.

 

Ok....but what if he explained it sufficiently for you, told you he loved only you...but then you found another flirty text to a woman not you, his wife, or his mom.

 

Or even better, an entirely different cell phone with a number you knew nothing about? Or, he starts to cancel planned meeting with you last minute under the guise of working late or a family issue.

 

You still would only ask him and accept his answer as the only truth you would seek out?

[Lostinlife4now]

Would I????

 

If xmm W called me and asked me if I had an affair with her H....I would say YES....I think I would be doing her/them a favor. They could either:

 

1) Go to marriage counselor and salvage....

2) Get a divorce because they are so unhappy!!

 

 

Yes, I would tell her the truth! And no I wouldn't lie so xmm could keep his money...

 

She deserves to be happy also!!!!!

[sad puppy]

I called his wife after he confessed and all was out in the open. She doesn't know me, so I introduced myself, told her I wasn't happy with him, felt he was the only one who had all the information and we did not. Told her she could call me if she ever wanted to talk. Also said "we find ourselves in a not uncommon situation", to which she agreed. Not much to it. I felt I needed to extend the invite just so she knew she could speak to me if she ever wanted to.

 

It also confirmed that he told her about the affair. She never called me. Too bad, she would've found out he was still lying to her by saying he wasn't seeing me, even after he moved out.

 

It wasn't tragic or we didn't fight or have bad words. It was quite simple, to the point, and civilized.

[cocorico]

Ok....but what if he explained it sufficiently for you, told you he loved only you...but then you found another flirty text to a woman not you, his wife, or his mom.

 

Or even better, an entirely different cell phone with a number you knew nothing about? Or, he starts to cancel planned meeting with you last minute under the guise of working late or a family issue.

 

You still would only ask him and accept his answer as the only truth you would seek out?

 

I think you misunderstood my post.

 

If the basis of our R was love and he'd previously said he loved only me, he would have no business sending a loving text to any other woman but his mum. Not his W, not an OOW, no one but me or his mum. And the kind of loving text to his mum would not be flirty either.

 

If any such text was found I would approach him because it would be completely inappropriate given the understanding that such a R was based on. So a "sufficient explanation" would be highly unlikely unless his home language was not English and allowances needed making for misunderstanding.

 

So, essentially, there would be no "next time".

[frozensprouts]

I think you misunderstood my post.

 

If the basis of our R was love and he'd previously said he loved only me, he would have no business sending a loving text to any other woman but his mum. Not his W, not an OOW, no one but me or his mum. And the kind of loving text to his mum would not be flirty either.

 

If any such text was found I would approach him because it would be completely inappropriate given the understanding that such a R was based on. So a "sufficient explanation" would be highly unlikely unless his home language was not English and allowances needed making for misunderstanding.

 

So, essentially, there would be no "next time".

 

 

therein lies one of the differences between an affair and a marriage...

 

in a marriage, there are so many ties, both emotional and practical, there are so many other people that will be affected should a marriage break up, there are often years of trust and love between the spouses...

 

a betrayed spouse most likely wants to make damned sure that there really is "fire" behind the smoke before throwing their whole life into a state of chaos. they also love and want to trust their spouse, and their spouse is probably doing their best to either totally hide the affair and make their spouse believe everything is just peachy keen between them, or they are doing their best to try and make their betrayed spouse feel that they are somehow crazy for even suspecting they are being unfaithful...

 

I know it may be really hard to understand if you haven't been in that position, but many times a betrayed spouse really has no idea they are being cheated on, and if and when they do start to suspect something isn't right, they feel such a huge need to find out the truth before deciding what to do about it....they may feel a need to have all the pertinent information before making a decision that will have a huge fallout for them, as well as often for many others as well...a decision like that is not made lightly

[Radagast]

therein lies one of the differences between an affair and a marriage...

 

in a marriage, there are so many ties, both emotional and practical, there are so many other people that will be affected should a marriage break up, there are often years of trust and love between the spouses...

 

a betrayed spouse most likely wants to make damned sure that there really is "fire" behind the smoke before throwing their whole life into a state of chaos. they also love and want to trust their spouse, and their spouse is probably doing their best to either totally hide the affair and make their spouse believe everything is just peachy keen between them, or they are doing their best to try and make their betrayed spouse feel that they are somehow crazy for even suspecting they are being unfaithful...

 

I know it may be really hard to understand if you haven't been in that position, but many times a betrayed spouse really has no idea they are being cheated on, and if and when they do start to suspect something isn't right, they feel such a huge need to find out the truth before deciding what to do about it....they may feel a need to have all the pertinent information before making a decision that will have a huge fallout for them, as well as often for many others as well...a decision like that is not made lightly

 

This "trappedness" you describe is I'm sure what prevents many unfaithful spouses leaving their marriages too, as well as keeping the betrayed spouse from leaving. I know that in my own case it led to my thinking long and hard before leaving, rather than leaping straight out of the door the minute I clapped eyes on my now-wife, which is what I've read many people on here advocating (or claiming that if an unfaithful spouse does not leave within seconds of meeting / kissing / having sex with / falling in love with someone else, they have no intention of leaving and will not leave).

 

To return to the topic though, when I was the "other man" I did have my then married woman's husband arrive fully armed at my student digs demanding to know whether I was involved with his wife. I told him the truth, and he spat on the ground and told me I could have her.

[Owl]

He wasn't investing that in the M long before I came along. And neither was she.

 

Given that your only source of information is from him...who has a definite reason to spin this in a way to make himself look better while cheating on her so that he doesn't lose you by appearing to be a jerk...how do you know the veracity of this?

 

Without having been IN the relationship, or living in the home with them...it seems difficult to me that someone on the outside could truly see how much or little they invested in their relationship.

 

Nor do I believe love is a zero sum game.

 

Of course it is. He has a finite amount of time to spend (same as everyone else...24 hours/day) either with and focused on you, or with/focused on her. He's got a finite amount of money (unless he's insanely rich) that he can spend...so it either goes towards the marriage or towards your relationship with him.

 

The relationship that grows is the one he "feeds"...and the one that suffers is the one he "starves".

[frozensprouts]

This "trappedness" you describe is I'm sure what prevents many unfaithful spouses leaving their marriages too, as well as keeping the betrayed spouse from leaving. I know that in my own case it led to my thinking long and hard before leaving, rather than leaping straight out of the door the minute I clapped eyes on my now-wife, which is what I've read many people on here advocating (or claiming that if an unfaithful spouse does not leave within seconds of meeting / kissing / having sex with / falling in love with someone else, they have no intention of leaving and will not leave).

.

 

I am not describing a state of "trappedness"... I am describing a state of needing o be sure that there really is an affair, a need to have all the pertinent information that is required to make an informed decision about something that will affect one's life....a nee to not be treated like a mushroom ( kept in the dark and fed "bullsh*t)...

a wayward spouse is NOT trapped in the same way..they have the information they need to make a decision...they are fully able to make choices from a place where they are fully informed of all the factors involved...things are not hidden from them and they know full well where they stand

 

To further address your point about being "trapped"...I can only speak for myself, but the only way I was ever "trapped" was if I allowed myself to be...and I had a lot of every good reasons that I could have been "trapped"...short of abuse, it would seem that people really are very rarely "trapped"...the dissolution of a marriage may be unpleasant, but , more often than not, a wayward spouse isn't "trapped", rather, they are only looking out for themselves and what's easiest on them

Edited June 13, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[MissBee]

therein lies one of the differences between an affair and a marriage...

 

in a marriage, there are so many ties, both emotional and practical, there are so many other people that will be affected should a marriage break up, there are often years of trust and love between the spouses...

 

a betrayed spouse most likely wants to make damned sure that there really is "fire" behind the smoke before throwing their whole life into a state of chaos. they also love and want to trust their spouse, and their spouse is probably doing their best to either totally hide the affair and make their spouse believe everything is just peachy keen between them, or they are doing their best to try and make their betrayed spouse feel that they are somehow crazy for even suspecting they are being unfaithful...

 

I know it may be really hard to understand if you haven't been in that position, but many times a betrayed spouse really has no idea they are being cheated on, and if and when they do start to suspect something isn't right, they feel such a huge need to find out the truth before deciding what to do about it....they may feel a need to have all the pertinent information before making a decision that will have a huge fallout for them, as well as often for many others as well...a decision like that is not made lightly

 

I understand this.

 

I've always said that if a boyfriend cheated, then there would be little in the way of discussion, just end it all and move forward. In a marriage though, I'd be way more invested and therefore more willing to work it out or get to the bottom of things etc. It would be no guarantee that we could reconcile, but I'd be more willing to try than in a single relationship.

 

An A for me has even less of a strong foundation and trajectory, therefore, if somehow I expected fidelity and found out it wasn't the case, then what recourse do I have? What would be the point of reconciling an A? For me personally, there would be none, it would just wake me to the reality even more. While I wouldn't ever expect fidelity in an A, I suppose I can understand how some would...I don't think it is a great investment personally, but I guess I understand how one can arrive at that expectation.

[MissBee]

This "trappedness" you describe is I'm sure what prevents many unfaithful spouses leaving their marriages too, as well as keeping the betrayed spouse from leaving. I know that in my own case it led to my thinking long and hard before leaving, rather than leaping straight out of the door the minute I clapped eyes on my now-wife, which is what I've read many people on here advocating (or claiming that if an unfaithful spouse does not leave within seconds of meeting / kissing / having sex with / falling in love with someone else, they have no intention of leaving and will not leave).

 

To return to the topic though, when I was the "other man" I did have my then married woman's husband arrive fully armed at my student digs demanding to know whether I was involved with his wife. I told him the truth, and he spat on the ground and told me I could have her.

 

I didn't read what frozensprouts said as being trapped, but rather, the normal ties, emotional and practical, that form when you romantically attach yourself to someone. This is a normal process.

 

Are you not attached to your wife emotionally and practically or do you feel currently trapped in your marriage?

[Radagast]

I didn't read what frozensprouts said as being trapped, but rather, the normal ties, emotional and practical, that form when you romantically attach yourself to someone. This is a normal process.

 

Are you not attached to your wife emotionally and practically or do you feel currently trapped in your marriage?

 

In the sense of a web of ties, and affecting so many other people - no, I do not feel that sense with my wife. I feel a very strong desire to be with her, an intense love for her, a burning to want to be together that has nothing to do with duty or obligation or practicalities. I wake up each morning, filled with an enormous bursting sense of joy that we are together, and commit the day to her and vow to do my very best to make each moment together as special as the last. I feel delight and pride and hope and all manner of things, but that sense of "if I leave this person, other people's worlds will crash. Oh, and we'll need to sell the houses, the cars, divide up the assets, find new places to live..." and all the myriad concerns that stop many other people simply walking out the door each time they've had enough - no, I don't feel the burden of that at all. I am not trapped in my marriage, I am in my marriage by my own choosing every moment to be so, and I know my wife is the same. It's not attachment that keeps us together, it's free choice and desire to be together.

[Spark1111]

Well then I was trapped by his desire to stay with me and string his OW along for as long as she would let him.

 

It confused me to no end and I really sought clarification from her about 6 months after dday when I decided I would give reconciliation a try.

 

He begged, he pleaded, he fought for us....and yet I still wasn't sure he was trustworthy even though he seemed incredibly remorseful and was attending IC and MC and had provided me with all his passwords and had ended contact with her voluntarily.

 

So unlike many here, she still protected him, or herself -- I will truly never know, but can only assume-- that she hoped we'd die a natural post-infidelity death like her marriage and he would come back to her under the belief he had nevver stopped pining for her.

 

I wish she had the courage to return my phone calls. She could have enlightened me to all I eventually learned on my own, and I could have enlightened her to the time she wasted believing he had returned for the sake of the children, or finances, or whatever drivel he told her.

 

Trapped by a lack of conviction and courage and authenticity, all three of us for way too long.

[frozensprouts]

In the sense of a web of ties, and affecting so many other people - no, I do not feel that sense with my wife. I feel a very strong desire to be with her, an intense love for her, a burning to want to be together that has nothing to do with duty or obligation or practicalities. I wake up each morning, filled with an enormous bursting sense of joy that we are together, and commit the day to her and vow to do my very best to make each moment together as special as the last. I feel delight and pride and hope and all manner of things, but that sense of "if I leave this person, other people's worlds will crash. Oh, and we'll need to sell the houses, the cars, divide up the assets, find new places to live..." and all the myriad concerns that stop many other people simply walking out the door each time they've had enough - no, I don't feel the burden of that at all. I am not trapped in my marriage, I am in my marriage by my own choosing every moment to be so, and I know my wife is the same. It's not attachment that keeps us together, it's free choice and desire to be together.

 

 

but let's suppose , for a moment, that you had, after a lot of pain and heartache, decided that your wife may be cheating on you, or that you found out she had been cheating...

 

wouldn't you feel a desire to know the scope of her actions, and perhaps a need to verify that she was telling the truth before you decided to upend the whole apple cart and walk away? wouldn't you want to make absolutely sure there was infidelity, or absolutely sure that your wife was being truthful before tearing apart your lives? this is not the same as staying "out of a sense of duty" , rather, it is loving your spouse enough to want to decide if there's enough for you to stay or leave....staying after infidelity is no picnic...it's also a way of guaging how much your wayward spouse loves you

 

this is how it is different for a betrayed spouse than a wayward spouse... as a wayward spouse, you have all the information needed to make a decision... most often a betrayed spouse neither doesn't have that information or doesn't feel like they do... this is where contacting the "other person" may come in...it provides a bit more information about what's going on ( a different side to the story) and one would hope that the other man/woman would be honest enough to provide this information

Edited June 13, 2012 by frozensprouts

[MissBee]

In the sense of a web of ties, and affecting so many other people - no, I do not feel that sense with my wife. I feel a very strong desire to be with her, an intense love for her, a burning to want to be together that has nothing to do with duty or obligation or practicalities. I wake up each morning, filled with an enormous bursting sense of joy that we are together, and commit the day to her and vow to do my very best to make each moment together as special as the last. I feel delight and pride and hope and all manner of things, but that sense of "if I leave this person, other people's worlds will crash. Oh, and we'll need to sell the houses, the cars, divide up the assets, find new places to live..." and all the myriad concerns that stop many other people simply walking out the door each time they've had enough - no, I don't feel the burden of that at all. I am not trapped in my marriage, I am in my marriage by my own choosing every moment to be so, and I know my wife is the same. It's not attachment that keeps us together, it's free choice and desire to be together.

 

Attachment doesn't preclude free choice. Attachment is just the psychological process of bonding that people go through in a relationship. Mother to child, husband to wife, boyfriend to girlfriend. If you are not attached then whether they leave or stay makes no difference. I imagine you marry someone whom you have an emotional bond and attachment to and they aren't just any old person who is out of sight and out of mind. You are attached when you miss them if they are not around and desire them. It's not a bad thing, it's a normal process. That's the emotional attachment I'm discussing and not necessarily being tethered by some attachment that has nothing to do with your desires or free will.

 

Likewise, practical ties don't necessarily mean that you are in a relationship just because of obligation. It works in tandem. Naturally when you have a life with someone, often it consists of intangible things like memories, emotions, desires, dreams, goals, etc and you often form and accumulate tangible things together as well. A marriage with kids is also different from one without, and has a different set of tangible and intangible attachments. I imagine when you discuss other people's worlds crashing, the only other people's worlds who will crash are the kids, and if you don't have kids, then most people don't stay married so that the in-laws, the milk man or their neighbors' worlds don't crash...or I hope not.

Edited June 13, 2012 by MissBee

[cocorico]

Given that your only source of information is from him...who has a definite reason to spin this in a way to make himself look better while cheating on her so that he doesn't lose you by appearing to be a jerk...how do you know the veracity of this?

 

My only source of information was him - what gave you that idea?

 

 

 

Of course it is. He has a finite amount of time to spend (same as everyone else...24 hours/day) either with and focused on you, or with/focused on her. He's got a finite amount of money (unless he's insanely rich) that he can spend...so it either goes towards the marriage or towards your relationship with him.

 

Time and money do not equal love in my world. I'd be saddened if they did.

 

But even if you want to treat those as proxies for love, the argument is still flawed. I know few couples that spend 24 hours 7 days a week together. People work, they spend time in the shower, etc and even if they're both at home they could be doing totally different things so not spending time together. So unless time spent with someone else saw an actual reduction in time spent with the spouse, no, they're not losing time because someone else gains. Same goes for money. Unless money spent on someone else translates into an actual reduction in money spent or money that they somehow had a claim on, they're not losing through someone else's gain.

 

 

 

The relationship that grows is the one he "feeds"...and the one that suffers is the one he "starves".

 

I don't disagree with that. But if the marriage has already been starved and is not in the running for being "fed" because it has already "died" to one or both of the spouses then another R being fed is not stealing food out of its mouth. That effort, interest and energy would not have been invested in the M even without the A. It wasn't taken away from the A. It was created de novo.

[Owl]

I'm going to suggest that it's entirely likely that we'll never agree, nor change each other's opinions unless something drastic changes somewhere. Given that...I'll respectfully agree to disagree, and let it drop from here.