Adult Child with no boundaries...husband who enables. me understand.

[onthefence210]

I am in the process of leaving my H due to many issues but all seem to include how my H isn't willing to see the "real" issues.

History:

Husband was a widow at 32 with 2 young children. He is 12 years older then I am. We became friends after his wife's death. From day one he had issues with drinking, yet I never realized it til after we were married when I realized I was not a priority over his alcohol, yet he excused his behavior due to his job (he's a salesman). I often wondered how he could risk not only his life but lives of others when he drove drunk. How could he not think of me and his children. I enabled him for 5 years til he got a dwi 11 days after our daughter was born and then I realized how I was contributing to his behavior. Sadly I never followed thru on any consequences, I just stopped caring what he did, and went back to college so that if I needed, I could take care of my kids.

His son is now 24, has had 1 dwi, diagnosed bipolar which I don't believe, and lives at home. He has no goals, dropped out of college after he put us 50k in debt, pays for his new car that his dad purchased (hes had it a month, 2nd car dad has purchased, first he stopped paying on after he quit a job because he thinks authority is beneath him). Son has either quit or been fired from every job. My H paid for him to get a cdl lisence 4k with the intentions of him paying him back, then came the dwi which took away the lisence, and the lawyer bills that my H has paid. We pay for the counseling for the bipolar which I think he uses as an excuse for his behavior. He doesn't display the symptoms only when he gets himself in a jam yet we pay for the meds in which he continues to drink on. Son complains about the consequences that the judge put on him after the dwi, basically saying they're stupid. We pay his cell bill, his car insurance which is outrageous being under 25, but add a dwi and a couple of accidents...crazy. Not to mention my car, in which he backed up into a tree or two and proceeded to drive home, and get his dwi. Son has never been accountable a day in his life. When he was younger my H always used the excuse of losing his mom and then I'd feel guilt. Now he just says he won't throw him on the streets so bitching him out is his only consequence. My H can't see how he is contributing to sons problems. And it has been the deal breaker in my marriage. I don't kno how to make him see how his enabling (which he thinks I'm just anti son which is furthest from the truth). I have seen his potential since I met him. Yet I've never been able to enforce a boundary because I was too afraid. Kids need them. Please help me figure out how to deal with my H. Right now I'm giving up. I have lost all respect for him. I want my son to succeed but can't get it thru my H's head that he is holding him back. Please...any advice or have you dealt with the same thing.

[Balzac]

Get yourself to Alanon and into individual therapy. Your greatest need is to heal yourself, become a better parent and put boundaries into place to cease co dependent behavior.

[onthefence210]

Get yourself to Alanon and into individual therapy. Your greatest need is to heal yourself, become a better parent and put boundaries into place to cease co dependent behavior.

 

I have been fight this battle in my marriage for over 18 yrs, first me with an alcholic H, and now with two dependent adult children. I did the CoDA meetings, and was able to stop the controlling behavior, focus on me and taking care of my children yet I was never able to have any clear cut boundaries with the son (he is my step son that I've raised since he was 6. Now he's 24). I have been able to see how I contributed to his dependency yet I really had no say. And my son knew I had no say. So not quite sure how to deal with a situation when my H feels in his words that there are no consequences you can put on a 24 yo short of kicking him out in which my H, refuses. I have applied consequences and my H, let's them slide. My son know this. Sadly, it's just one of our many problems yet all stem around respect and equality.

 

I have been in IC for over a yr and still fight the guilt that financially I will put this family in if I leave. Sadly we have a 12 yr old that thank God is more mature then the two older ones and even more responsible, yet she sees the two older ones getting away with manipulating and she is starting to use their tactics. I fortunately have been teaching her self respect and have been able to follow thru with consequences when need be. I am just very sad that my marriage will be broken because my H doesn't see how he enables.

 

So I do agree, I am working on myself and moving forward praying that God will give me the strength to get thru this. I allowed for this to happen for too long. Thank you for your help!

[turnera]

Why do you have no say on what goes on in your own house? That son is there half by YOUR permission. Remove the permission.

[onthefence210]

Why do you have no say on what goes on in your own house? That son is there half by YOUR permission. Remove the permission.

 

I'm not sure. Maybe because I can't remove 1/2 of him. I sat him down the other night while my H was out of town and explained to him what reality looks like for me. The debt I have acquired because his father can't make him responsible for his mistakes.

 

I showed him our bills, and showed him that the reason I'm still in this marriage is because we can't afford to finance two places. We have acquired all of his debt including his 2 yrs of college in which he dropped out yet that was our problem. I showed everything that we've done financially to bail him out of the various messes that he made. I was just like him in my marriage. No self confidence and what I was living just seemed normal. My marriage was great as long as I wasn't expressing my boundaries. I let this happen and have learned thru much counseling how. It was easy for me to blame my behavior on my H's actions and basically pout until I got over it.

 

I was always trying to change my H yet I never looked at myself. I saw myself as a victim like my son sees himself. I made a huge mistake trying to escape my reality and eventually when those feelings were no longer making me feel good I had to look at myself. It's been the hardest thing I've ever had to do. To look at my life, how I was raised, how I let myself be manipulated and controlled. For 21 yrs I let myself live for a man that had no respect for me and my opinions. He made me feel stupid and I let him. So why don't I throw my son out, because I don't want to fix my marriage. I don't want to fight for a house that I've never been an equal in. What I wanted was for my H to read the articles on enabling and co dependency and hoped that he'd see himself. All he saw was that he is powerless to his adult children. All he sees is that as patents we should help our kids with their problems. All he sees is that his son lost his mother at the age of 3, and is a victim of his life. I guess in a way I wanted my family to work. I wanted him to fight for our marriage, for him to finally make it a priority beyond wanting to take me on dates, and vacations and making plans to change things in my house that I've been "asking" for for yrs. And now I fear not being alone but not being able to provide for my daughter, the one who I am still responsible for. The one who I've taught the value of a dollar by making her either earn or pay for things that she wants. I am proud of her and the young lady she is growing to be. I refused to let her be like her brother, yet sometimes I think I'm too hard on her.

 

I just want to do the right thing. And I just want my kids to be happy. But I too want happiness and I guess it'll be me, filing, forcing the sale of our house because my H is unwilling to discuss anything unless I'm agreeing to stay and work on our marriage. And I can't stay married to nor work on something that I don't agree with. I think that we need to be on the same page, and we can't even agree what book. I feel for my son, but I've always told him that he is free to make his own choices. I can't support him nor my H when my son continues to blame the universe for his failures and my H needing to rescue him from reality.

[turnera]

What exactly were you asking for help with, then, if you're leaving?

[onthefence210]

What exactly were you asking for help with, then, if you're leaving?

 

I guess I was asking for help with boundaries with your adult children. Just because I'm leaving the marriage doesn't mean I'm leaving my kids. How do I enforce boundaries when I have a H that agrees with me until the next crisis hits and then he's digging us in a bigger financial hole to dig his son out. How do I maintain my boundaries with a 12 yr old who will be with her dad 1/2 of the time, experiencing how "unfair" things are as she watches her brother get away with whatever he chooses? My H is a wonderful person when there is no conflict but he has been emotionally abusive out entire marriage and even before and unless you've been there, it's debilitating to your self worth. He broke me down yet people from the outside saw no visible signs. Even now, he manipulates using money as he makes 3x more then I do. Idk what I need help with, I guess I hoped that I wasn't the only one in the situation I'm in and just looking for advice. Setting boundaries and applying consequences is hard on a wife when she has no support. I stopped setting boundaries where my son was concerned yrs ago because it was the only way I could stay in my marriage. As long as I kept my mout shut, things were "perfect".

[turnera]

Ok, I understand better. I see a couple things. First, with your daughter, take a different tack than with your son. My H is a lot like yours; our lives (mine and my DD21's) are a constant battle of dealing with his issues. Example, today, we've been dealing with a new puppy trying to avoid her getting parvo like our last puppy did. Today, puppy started getting pukey. She and I kept it to ourselves because we knew that once he found out, the whole house would be upside down - I know you know what I mean. She and I tried to take care of the puppy, get water into her, stop her diahrrea without him finding out. When it looked like she wasn't getting better, DD21 was in tears but not because of the puppy - it was because she expected him to blow his top and go overboard and make us feel like crap. I kept telling her it's not her problem, it's mine, I would handle it. But I've only been 'handling' it for the last couple years - she grew up with a dad like your husband. Fear drives her.

 

So...what have I done to keep her from being even worse? I talk to her about him, why he is the way he is (childhood, poverty, etc.), how she can deal with it, and how not to let it affect who she is. In other words, be honest with her about the situation. She's old enough to understand what she's dealing with, and giving her ammunition in terms of psychology will help her immensely. There's also a website I recommend to everyone with daughters, www.daughters.com, that's just amazing. It covers all the issues, gives you a way to talk to your daughter about stuff, helps her feel safe and feel heard...try it out.

 

As for your son, I understand how you felt you had to step back and be silent but...I gotta say...there is NO reason to be silent any more, is there? You won't be dependent on his dad any more. You will have your own voice. And you can step up and show him the voice of reason.

 

Every time a situation of his comes around, step up and tell him what you think about it. Use psychology and show him why him stepping up and doing the right thing or taking charge or suffering his own consequences will good for HIM in the long run. Talk to him about how his decisions today will pave the path for his future. Ask him to visualize 10 years from now; suggest that he has never stepped up and taken charge of himself, always let his dad protect him; ask him to consider what THAT would look like to some woman he's dating - what would SHE think of him never standing up on his own two feet? Would SHE want to keep dating a man who doesn't have a savings account, or who can't hold down a job, etc. Try to help him visualize his future. Help him see how taking handouts from his dad keeps him from learning how to be a real man. Ask him to consider what his FRIENDS think, that he is not responsible, won't think of the future, isn't dependable. Try to put it on his own level, with his own experiences.

 

In other words, YOU be the safe place, the lighthouse, for them. The voice of reason. The one to come to when Dad gets out of control. Today, my DD21 tells her friends that I'm her best friend! Because I never judge her, I always listen, I give advice but I don't force her, I let her make her own mistakes, but I expect a LOT out of her, and I don't let her take the easy way out. Be THAT mom for them, and you'll be fine.

Edited June 17, 2012 by turnera

[turnera]

Also, if your son gets in another jam, be kind but firm - he's an adult now and you will NOT help him out of it. You have high faith in him to be able to solve his own problems. He needs to hear that. That a parent trusts him to fix his own problems. Because his dad never let him do that, he lost self esteen AND drive. You can change that. It's only through accomplishments that a young adult can grow and thrive. That's why boot camps work so well for delinquents and soldiers. I know you know that, but your son needs to experience it.

[onthefence210]

Also, if your son gets in another jam, be kind but firm - he's an adult now and you will NOT help him out of it. You have high faith in him to be able to solve his own problems. He needs to hear that. That a parent trusts him to fix his own problems. Because his dad never let him do that, he lost self esteen AND drive. You can change that. It's only through accomplishments that a young adult can grow and thrive. That's why boot camps work so well for delinquents and soldiers. I know you know that, but your son needs to experience it.

 

Thank you so much. It helps to know I'm not alone. I am very sad because I think that my H and I could possible have a good life if he just wanted to change. I have changed so much over the last yrs but even more so in the last 8 months since being with my new IC. I can't stay where only one of us is making changes and the changes I've made my H see as threatening. Ive discussed things with my H about changing how we handle our son and while we're not in a crisis he agrees, but when the crisis happens my H takes care of it, does the bailing out usually money and then tells me about it. I just wish I was strong enough in my healing to stay and be the person I'm working so hard to be. I am afraid that ill just go back to being silent. My life right now is good but I'm also trying to figure out how to get out. We have a lot of debt and 1/2 will be my responsibility. I can't afford it yet I refuse to file bankruptcy. I hate all of this. And I will continue to teach my daughter about self respect and going out of her comfort level to enforce her own boundaries.

 

Sadly my son called my 12 yo a b**** and my older daughter informed me. I spoke to my 12 yo about how that made her feel and that it's unacceptable behavior especially coming from her adult brother. I asked why she didn't tell me and her response...I didn't want to get him in trouble. Thank you for the website, I'll check it out.

[turnera]

Say what? And what are you going to do TO your son for doing that? I hope to hell you're going to threaten to turn him over your knee if he doesn't go to DD12 and apologize! I would be chasing my son around the house with a broom in my hand if he didn't!

 

Come on, hon, it's time to be the adult.

[turnera]

Re your husband, here's what my IC told me: If you stop propping up your husband, he will have two choices: learn to stand up on his own two feet, or fall flat on his face. Either way, it will be HIS choice, because you are no longer accepting responsibility for his choices.

[onthefence210]

Say what? And what are you going to do TO your son for doing that? I hope to hell you're going to threaten to turn him over your knee if he doesn't go to DD12 and apologize! I would be chasing my son around the house with a broom in my hand if he didn't!

 

Come on, hon, it's time to be the adult.

 

Laughing, if only I could turn my 6 ft 225lb son over my 4' 11" frame, believe me, he out grew that when he was like 12 . It's sad because I know he wishes he could change, and he says that he is trying. He says that he's been given things all his life and doesn't know what "normal" looks like. I can agree with him on that, I've lived it up until I realized that I was part of the problem. No matter how good I tried to be as a mom and a wife, I still wasn't completely happy. I let my H treat me like a child as in the beginning it felt like love. He was taking care of me. I didn't understand what emotional abuse was until I sat with my IC and she explained it to me. I was living what was normal to me and was worn down by it. I coped by escaping, first to games on the computer at night so that I didn't have to go to bed, then to having a 2 1/2 yr EA. I learned a lot about myself during that time not all was good. I had to take a hard look at my reality and see what exactly I was escaping from. And that's when I learned how passive I had become.

 

I had stopped all the nagging, and controlling and all the other things that got my point acrossed regarding my H and the kids. That was when I fought the hardest to save my marriage. I tried to change my H, tried to get him to see that his actions were hurting me but he listened long enough to tune me out, and was "good" until the next time. That is where we are with my son. Or at least he is with him. Nagging, bitching and bailing son out. I want a good healthy marriage. I just don't know how to do it in the same house with my H. He is in his mid fiftys now, me my early 40's, I just don't know if I stayed I could stay strong. He is so good at making you love him (he's a salesman) yet he doesn't see how he treats me. He just sees that now I'm not putting up with it and so now he gets frustrated, and we fight all the time.

 

Do u still live with your H? If so how do you stay strong? 21 yrs of emotional abuse is paralyzing, and I just need to be happy and healthy.

[onthefence210]

Btw...my son convinced a psychiatrist that he is bipolar. Howd he do this...because he dated a girl that was and knew exactly what he could do to get on his meds (feel good stuff) and used that as his excuse for his behavior. The rage he would get when things weren't going his way. The constant thoughts that kept him up at night. The thoughts of just ending his own life because his life was so bad. My H feels sorry for him and buys into sons excuses. But not me...I call him out on them. The behavior he has is because he has never had to work for anything. He gets fired or quits jobs because he doesn't handle criticism well. He blames others for the crap jobs he has to take because he lost his cdl license right as he finally got accepted in linemans school and couldn't attend due to his dwi. If anything...he is as bipolar as the weather where I live. It's got to be someones fault that it's 80 one day and 55 the next. I explained the voices in his head are his thoughts. He can run from them or confront them and answer the hard questions they are asking.

 

It saddens me because he is so smart. He could be almost anything he put his mind to but if it's not easy, he won't do it. I just wish I could get him to see his potential. I just wish I could make him understand life is what you make it. And I wish that leaving didn't feel like I was giving up although I know it's what's best for me and ultimately my dd12.

 

Thanks again for taking the time to help a woman who is doing the best she can.

[turnera]

I gather you don't have any control over the money? If you did, you could start removing his access to it. That is what he needs more than anything - having no access to y'all's money - best way ever to have a rude awakening. Just look for other ways to restrict helping him or rescuing him.

 

I've been married 32 years. Just a month ago I told him if he doesn't get therapy I will leave him. He agreed immediately. Just waiting to get him an appointment. I survived because I was raised to be silent and a doormat - by my parents. Went from them to an overbearing brother, to an abusive boyfriend, to a messed up husband. Nowhere in there did I ever learn to be ok with myself or stand up for myself or be on my own. It's taken me this long to realize what I need to do. Now I'm doing it, just like you are.