Marry responsibly, not rich

[dontgoogleme]

Hello forum,

 

I am a woman in my mid-twenties who has been dating a man in his early forties. We have been dating for almost half a year and I am wondering if I am overly cautious about marriage.

 

Recently my boyfriend proposed to me. I have to admit I was shocked - he didn't get me an engagement ring. I wasn't sure if he was serious - yet I was too embarrassed to ask him where the ring was. While I modest and don't believe in expensive taste, I did want this symbol of traditionalism.

 

My boyfriend makes a decent living. I make an average living. After talking about the future it looks like I will have to end up providing for most things like a house and a regular paycheck, while he tries to find a business to invest in with some of my capital and loan the rest. I don't quite understand how a man in his forties does not have a savings. He comes from a dotcom scenario where he can pull over six figures one year and nothing the next.

 

I don't want to marry rich, but I want to marry responsibly. Am I wrong for having doubts about this man?

[lydiamarie]

i think it's wise to be wary. especially in this situation.

 

what do your friends and family have to say about this? they know a lot more than you can tell us here, so it's worth asking their advice.

 

men who have nothing to offer but their charm can be quite persuasive. it's how they get by. it's their survival skill.

 

if nothing else, he should at least have saved for his retirement. please tell me he has done this?!

 

if you do decide to get married, and then end up divorced, it's possible that you will have to continue to provide for him the way you did during the marriage. consult a lawyer about the need for a prenup.

[swtbonita]

you should wonder why he proposed?

has he been married before?

If he wasn't married i would wonder why he wants to get married so fast..

why doesn't he have any money? where does he spend it?

has he asked you for money?

 

I would be worried in your situation.. because you don't want to have financial problems when you are married

[lydiamarie]

geez...i didn't catch that you hadn't even been dating for six months. oh my.

 

this just doesn't sound right.

[dontgoogleme]

Thanks for the advice! I talked with family and as objectively as they could gave me the same advice.

[masked_man]

I don't quite understand how a man in his forties does not have a savings

 

There are a few people in this sort of situation, in their late 30's to early 40's, whose financial state is hardly crash hot.

 

For example, a friend who is 38 has recently returned home, with no money, after spending the last ten years travelling the world. He now has a $10K car loan, and although he is making a reasonable income ($45K), it could take him two years to clear the debt. That means by the time he is 40, although debt free, all he may have to his name is a second hand car!!

 

Even though he has gained a "world of experience" through his travels, he nevertheless has nothing tangible, or material, to show for himself.

 

I can relate to this situation also. A few years ago I lost a fair bit though poor share/stock market investments (hmm, think dodgy dot coms...). I've learnt the hard way, and am now far more conservative with my money. Still, I am really only starting to get back on my feet financially.

 

I'm a little surprised by your b/f's situation though. If he has been earning six figure salaries, I'd wonder where the money has gone. Surely he'd have saved some, but by the sounds of it he seems to be spending all his money. Does he likes to party? There are one or two people at that age, who are single, with no children/family (read: no responsibilities), who still live the high life in their leisure time. If that's the case, maybe it's time for him to begin thinking a little more seriously about the future.

 

If however there is another reason, such as, he is a compulsive gambler or something, then there may be major problems further down the line.

 

I think you should look a little more deeply into this before making big decisions about the future with him.

[thecake]

I went to college and have worked for the same company for 10 years and I'm 31. I chose not to have kids and while I have a nice home, car, take fun trips, have money in the bank (part of it is from an inheritence) etc. I do not live above my means as so many people seem to do these days. I want a man who is my age or a few years older who can match this. That's not so much to ask. If I can do it so can other people.

 

I've been involved with men who aren't where I'm at and it always becomes a problem, but the good news is there are plenty of men who are at this point. Look for a guy who has proven himself by living a STABLE life...with a stable job. It's the responsible thing to do even if it makes you look like you're more worried about money than love.

 

For the record, the last guy I was involved with was in his mid-forties and had a good job but he also was paying child support for his kids and had a large amount of debt. He wouldn't sign a pre nup and that's one of the reasons we broke up. You have to protect yourself financially....what if you married this guy...had a couple of kids and then he leaves and can't provide child support, etc.?

[CurlyIam]

If you decide to marry this guy, get the best lawyer in town to draft your prenupt.

 

Plus... married in 6 months?!? Hum.... Not even you seem convinced that's okey!

[lydiamarie]

just because i felt like being more thorough:

 

I have to admit I was shocked - he didn't get me an engagement ring. I wasn't sure if he was serious - yet I was too embarrassed to ask him where the ring was. While I modest and don't believe in expensive taste, I did want this symbol of traditionalism.

 

i know it would be an awkward thing to bring up, but if you can't talk about something like this, then how can you marry him? i think it 's a result of you not having dated for long enough. or maybe no matter how long you dated this guy you would still never be comfortable talking about these things to him.

 

My boyfriend makes a decent living. I make an average living. After talking about the future it looks like I will have to end up providing for most things like a house and a regular paycheck, while he tries to find a business to invest in with some of my capital and loan the rest.

 

so where is his money going to go? isn't he supporting himself now? can't he help to support the two of you? if he can afford his rent, then he can easily afford half of the mortgage.

 

Am I wrong for having doubts about this man?

 

always follow your instincts (unless they've been miserably wrong in the past-then try your mother's advice )

[dontgoogleme]

I'm definitely drifting away from the idea of marriage, thanks everyone!

 

Can you imagine, this man is somewhat frugal! He still has furniture from college, has an apartment of a pack rat, and his 2 cats are more of a party animal. He does make 6 figures, but just not consistently. He has a small IRA, but he says all his savings went to his living expenses when he was out of a job for long stretches of time (years). He's not struggling now, but he's living comfortably with nothing left over.

 

I've talked with him, and I feel really bad asking him why he has no money, because fact is, he can't just magically produce any. Though I think his situation comes from being irresponsible, he doesn't seem to think so, and thinks I'm being too judgemental and don't give him more credit than he deserves.

 

When I got out of college, my parents loaned me some money for a downpayment for a house. I then slowly worked a corporate job and paid my mortgage and have built quite a bit of equity (due to crazy CA real estate). He feels that since this money was from my parents, I was just lucky.

 

So if this is bothering me so, and I end this relationship, is the reason of being financially irresponsible rather cold? Isn't a relationship for better or for worse? Is the karma police going to come after me?

[HoldOn]

I agree that you don't have to marry rich, but you do have to marry responsibly. My last bf racked up more than $30,000 on my credit card, which took me more than 3 years to pay off. I thought I was doing the right thing by supporting him because he couldn't do it himself. But now my financial life has been seriously set back because I trusted him.

 

Protect yourself and find someone who has some sense of responsibility because you don't want to be left holding the bag!

 

I really don't think it's cold to break it off with this man because he has a lot of red flags. Why does he want to get married so quickly? How could he have NO assets? It's ridiculous!

 

I have no shame in looking for a man who is financially repsonsible. After we broke up, I decided I wouldn't even date a guy unless he had a college education, a job with benefits and financial responsibility! I don't care how much he makes because I think that your attitude and spending habits are more important. I don't think that's too much to ask! And I did find the best boyfriend in the world (who doesn't make much money, but he is really smart with it.)

 

So anyway, don't feel cold! You're smart for having standards!

[CurlyIam]

Don't feel bad for asking questions! When marrying one should have as little dount as possible! This is big as in BIG! Karma for what? Is he the love of your life, can't you breeze without him, is he your soul mate whom you're dumping for not owning a Ferrari?

 

I don't think so! Go with your instincts, IMHO they are always always giving out good hints! How is he prepared to help the children or to pay for their education?

 

Unless of course, you're not "worthy" of the liberation movement some are so very found of and don't believe men have equal rights to stay home and you to provide!That makes you a bad person, you know !

[meanon]

People have very different priorities in life. Personally, lack of savings/financial assets wouldn't bother me at all, but this would:

 

while he tries to find a business to invest in with some of my capital

You are wise to be cautious.

[nonsequitur]

I may just be preaching to the choir ... but it seems hasty to just end a 1.5 year relationship because he's currently not as financially stable as you'd like. If he has the potential and the plan to build a nest, why not just bear with it for a few years? Have you discussed kids yet? What will he do then? Sounds like you two need to talk more.

 

And if you're not particular about rings, you can hint to him that he doesn't need to throw $10K at it to get your hand in marriage. Afterall, that $10K you don't get to spend on other things. But you know how men work. Until he went out and bought one (the selection process alone would deter most casual proposers), don't take his proposal too seriously.

[HoldOn]

They have only been dating 6 months not a year and six months...

[dontgoogleme]

I've approached him about the ring and the financial stability and responsibility. He said he could have made the engagement more official and then took the engagement back when we couldn't come to terms about his financial responsibility. The reasons why we couldn't come to terms was that I found out he was barely making it with his one-man business. He can support himself, but definitely not a home or a family.

 

With all these concerns, I've put our relationship on hold - I don't talk or make plans about the future and our dynamics have gotten worse. He tells me that he feels stuck because I won't make a commitment.

 

Last night he asked me if I could get a loan with him to buy a house. I told him I wasn't ready yet, that he should get it by himself, even if it's something smaller like a condominium. He told me that since he was self-employed, he couldn't do it by himself because his income was unreliable. He got angry that this reason, and my unwillingness to commit was keeping him from moving forward with his life. I keep thinking he's not very sensible right now.

[CurlyIam]

He got angry that this reason, and my unwillingness to commit was keeping him from moving forward with his life

 

I wonder why he ever got angry...

 

You know, maybe he's right. Mayybe you are indeed putting his life on hold. This is why I say you break it off with him.

 

I am sorry, most people get to break up because of financial reasons. You aren't even together and it's such a big issue. So have the nerve to do the right thing!

[HoldOn]

Last night he asked me if I could get a loan with him to buy a house. I told him I wasn't ready yet, that he should get it by himself, even if it's something smaller like a condominium.

 

I know you are smart and you already said no, so stay strong! Please don't ever ever ever do this! I know what I am talking about because I helped my ex "qualify" for all kinds of music equipment, computers and a car. Then he defaulted and I ended up being totally responsible. I had to move to my parents house to pay it off and I still have debt from him on my cards.

 

Don't EVER lend money to a SO or co-sign a loan unless you are married and prepared to take on all teh responsibility.

[moimeme]

Oh yeah. I've known one like that. I almost was stupid enough to put him on the deed of my condo - one which he did not pay one cent toward! Fortunately I got wise fast. It's unfortunate this guy can't fend for himself and more so that it may be his impetus for wanting to marry so soon. I predict his desire to get married will fade and he'll go off looking for a willing victim. You're smart not to fall for his scheme.

[C. elegans]

Make a decision one way or the other--and communicate it effectively. Don't leave him hanging; don't leave him guessing.

 

Someone left my life not too long ago--and the explanation was...a little lacking. I wish this person had the courage to just tell me in-person...and to be more frank. I know what happened, now. --I'm not angry...and I'm not hurt. But the last 7 months might have been easier if I had known sooner.

 

* * *

 

Anyway, back to you.

 

Personally, Mr. Six Figures sounds like a con-artist-type to me. But you know him much better. (I hope, anyway.)

 

My recommendation? I think you deserve better. Go find someone else. You're still young.

 

Don't look back. Not to Six Figures...and not to anyone else who's yesterday's news, either.

 

You can do better than this one.

 

 

 

(signed)

Your Guardian Angel

[dontgoogleme]

Thank you everyone (hi c.elegans! - I like your name)

 

Since this original posting, I've found out the following:

 

- He actually doesn't make 6 figures, just has the potential.

- He doesn't want to work too hard, unless I get pregnant.

- Some a/v material of his past adventures with a previous girlfriend in his sock drawer.

 

I've been able to confront him about issues that bother me. Last night I told him the reasons why I couldn't be with him. Despite the guilt trip, I remained grounded. I kept telling myself if I were a man, I wouldn't pick on a woman like this.

 

I did try to be straightforward and gave him these reasons why I couldn't be with him. I didn't say, "it's not you, it's me". However, he did say it was lacking and couldn't believe I would leave someone over these issues.

[HoldOn]

Yeah, I can't believe you would dump someone for being a pathological liar! How insensitive of you... /sarcasm

 

He totally LIED about how much he makes. He asked you to risk your financial future and he still thinks he can keep videos of his ex-gf.

 

Totally gross!

 

I'm glad you were so strong. Please move on, and never look back. Start thinking about what you need in a new man. I'll help you start.

 

1.) Honesty

2.) Integrity

3.) Financial independence (not rich, mind you, just responsible!)

4.) whatever's important to you...

 

....

 

Congratulations again!

[lydiamarie]

well he better start believing it because you've walked out the door.

 

yay you!

 

i'm so glad that you did this for yourself. you'll find someone so much better and actually worthy of your time. best of luck

 

~lydia

[nonsequitur]

6 mos. only? In that case, what the heck. Why don't you give the relationship more time (and remain open to dating other people)? In my humble experience, it takes about 1 year to be "joined at the hip" to make life decisions together.

[HoldOn]

6 mos. only? In that case, what the heck. Why don't you give the relationship more time

 

Six months is enough time to decide you don't want to date someone. Especially if he asks you for money and gets angry when you turn him down:

 

Last night he asked me if I could get a loan with him to buy a house. I told him I wasn't ready yet, that he should get it by himself, even if it's something smaller like a condominium. He told me that since he was self-employed, he couldn't do it by himself because his income was unreliable. He got angry that this reason, and my unwillingness to commit was keeping him from moving forward with his life. I keep thinking he's not very sensible right now.