W is having an affair

[dscl]

Some background:

 

Married for 10yrs, D8

 

About two months ago my wife started telling she had to do a lot of travel for work and has not been home since. Every time she is suppose "something" always come ups that forces her to have to stay. Before I found this board I did what I was not suppose to do non stop calling and txt. She never answered the phone and when she did answer the txt it would be hours later and the excuse was that she was in meetings. About a month ago I sent her a txt that said "Seems you made your choice, hope your jobs gives you everything you need, Goodby"

 

She did not answer for a couple of days and I started mass txt begging her to call me. I guess she finally got sick of it and said "Your txt was disturbing and I'll take to you tmw". Next day no show no call, so I start mass toting, no reply. Last text I sent was "If you made the choice not to be will me and are just thinking of a way to tell me, just say it because it's not fair to me" After an hour I get a reply "You are not happy with me and you should find someone who deos make you happy"

 

Deep down I knew I was going to get this answer but it still hurt.

 

Since then I have got her to meet a couple of time to have dinner with me an D, and every time she is with me she always makes it seem that she does want to be with me and wants to make it work but she just needs some time. At the end if the night we hug, talk nice and I ask her to send me a txt just to say goodnight when she gets to her room, she says she will but never does. When I send a txt in the morning asking what happen to the txt, I get either phone died or I fell asleep.

 

Now what I about to say I know I should not do but I could not help myself. When she was last home she left her email and

Facebook accounts logged in. So everyday I look at them just to see because now I feel she is having a A. For a couple of weeks nothing shows, then one day I see a Facebook message she send to one friends how is a lawyer asking if she could recommend a divorce lawyer. I go numb and my hands start shaking. I can sleep and stay up the whole night. Fast forward to today and I see two emails from a vender for her company, one is his flight info and he ends it with, I love you and can wait to come to you. The other is a love poem.

 

I again go numb in total shock!! I go write to a lawyer to see what my options are. Tell him everything and seeing dollar signs he said I should start the paperwork right now!! The problem is I still love her want us to be a family and in a fog not knowing what to do. She came home today to give our D a book she promised her, the only way I could get her to do it was by guilting her into be sending a txt saying no matter what issues we have, our D NEEDS her mother it's been over a week since she has seen you. She said fine she all come over and take our D to dinner.

 

When she gets here, I'm in the garage because I did not want our D to hear us talking. I say I want to say Im sorry for all the txt and calling, it was selfish of me to only think of what I want and not listen to you when you say you needed time. I then Look her in the face and ask her, do you want to make this work or should we just get a divorce? She said she does want to try. I then I stare her in the face for 30secs and then ask, do you have feelings for someone else? She looks me the face and says....... No

 

I keep my cool while she is lying to my face and say " If you do have feeling, tell me and I can accept that, but don't i.e. if you are", she again says no. I just say OK

 

She then says if I want to go to dinner, I said sure, once there we have idle chet chat, I make sure never to say I love you or take about our R, When we leave she comes home to get clothes because she has to fly out to LA for the rest of the week for work.. sure!! I keep my cool and say nothing. Once she gets her clothes she calls me over and gives me a hug, I give her a real weak hug, she looks at me and says bye, I look at her and say bye. We walk to the door and I just close it behind her without saying another word.

 

So I sit here in my fog thinking I should just file and be done with it, but I still love her and for some reason want us to still be together. I just don't know what to do.

[sunflower5]

Oh man that is rough. I am sorry she is putting you through this. Have you asked her about counciling? If she won't go then go without her. Definately stop calling and texting her constantly. That will only push her farther away. I know it is hard, but keep yourself busy.

Sounds like she is in an affair fog of her own. She is lying to you and ignoring her child. You need to step up and protect yourself and your child. I hope she wakes up and realizes what she is doing to her family soon.

[Artie Lang]

you're a doormat, my friend. at least that's how she's treating you.

 

MAN UP!

[YellowShark]

There is nothing you can do. Don't beg to get her back, she's left the reservation and is in total La La land with this dude. If you act needy and start begging you will DEFINITELY push her away further. Mark my words.

 

As much as it hurts, (and I know because I have been there,) stand your ground. Be ice cold with her and don't be a needy wimp. You love who she was... not who she is now. Now she is a lying, cheating spouse.

 

And this fling of hers will die out eventually, but DO NOT be her fallback plan. Because she'll come grovelling back to you when this affair goes south. Never make someone a priority who only sees you as an option.

[TigerCub]

Love can make fools of us all

 

OP, you have to stand your ground and stand up for yourself and your daughter. As Shark said, you love who she was.

What is it about this woman right now (as she is now) that you love?

- they lying

- the betrayal

- the child neglect

 

Don't be a needy wimp that apologizes when SHE is the one that's wrong.

 

Don't beg for her back - rather be the one to kick her out. Be the one that ends it - see how fast she comes crying and groveling and talking about how she doesn't want to throw away a marriage and break up her family.

 

You deserve much better than this - no one deserves to be played and hurt like she's doing to you.

[Steadfast]

Love can make fools of us all

 

How true. And that love can make us needy.

 

Many of us understand where you are. You know she's lying and you know she's cheating. All at the expense of not only her husband and daughter, but her own self esteem and long term stability. On cue, your 'actions' are done trying to shock her and somehow snap her out of whatever you think is controlling her actions. The reality? She sees through what you're doing and probably knows what you'll do next. Brain chemicals and all that notwithstanding, she is controlling what she's doing. She wants this.

 

She wants you to be a reliable safety net. She needs you to look after the child while she skids off the track. She wants what she wants. Period.

 

Stop trying to figure out what she's doing and what it will 'take' to fix your relationship, and determine what you need to move to a place where you're not being abused. You are programmed to fix this...to win...to save your family. She knows this and is rebelling against it. Your only option is to let her go. Her choosing to be with you is the only chance your marriage has left. She knows her obligation and feels the guilt, believe me. Leave it be.

 

In time, you may not want her back because loving mothers and wives don't neglect their families. Very soon, anger will arrive. Write us then.

 

You can only control you. As for your daughter? She does not need her mother; she needs a stable, reliable adult who loves her enough to make all the sacrifices necessary to insure she's healthy and well cared for. You saying she needs her mother is a justification for you to do anything to get her back. Don't play that game with yourself. Deep breath. Let her go.

[Radu]

Document everything she does, how long she has been away from her daughter. Find out who the OM is.

Talk to the lawyer and save every text you can get, Facebook does save the messages even if she deletes them afaik so you can have it subpoenad.

File for divorce and see if you can sue the OM for alienation of affection [it can be done in some states]. In the divorce use the proof you have of the affair as the basis of the divorce and if you are a total cunt [good thing] have her served at work.

Inform her parents about this.

I would also try to use the abandonment angle in all of this.

Your Daughter has eyes on you, what is going right now between the two of you serves as an example for her later in life.

I would also inform her place of work about this affair, if she is having an affair with a competitor or a business aquaintance, it won't look good at all.

 

If at this point she wants to make it work ask for this :

- she pulls the reconciliation wagon

- she has no more contact with OM

- she informs the OM's wife

- she quits her job and moves elsewhere

- she gives you absolute acces to all of her forms of communication

- post-nuptial agreement if you make more or have more assets is a must

- if any of the above rules are broken, you will go ahead with filing for divorce; she might break a few so you need to be strong

 

Also look up the 180 and put it in works.

 

Women cannot love a man they don't respect, and right now she has no respect for you.

[stillafool]

So sorry OP for what you are going through. If you can't think of anything else right now think of your daughter and how horrible a mother your wife is being. Putting her OM before her child is awful. How could she go a week without seeing her daughter? You see how easy it was for your wife to lie to your face without batting an eye. Maybe when the fog clears you may not want this skank back.

[Steadfast]

Document everything she does...Inform her parents about this...inform her place of work about this affair...

 

Sorry, but I must post in objection to this advice. Hasn't it been clearly proven that telling and 'rounding the troops' does nothing but put more pain and pressure on the betrayed? Her parents and friends will side with her, regardless. The courts won't care, as long as she shows she'll get joint custody unless proven unfit by police reports. The rest is heresy. Firing missiles at her employment will only make the child and OP suffer increased financial stress. It'll all play out. It always does.

 

Please focus on yourself and your child OP. The wheels will come off and when they do, it'll be much more profound if you have nothing to do with it. It may sound wimpy but take my advice and take the high road.

[Owl]

Sorry, but I must post in objection to this advice. Hasn't it been clearly proven that telling and 'rounding the troops' does nothing but put more pain and pressure on the betrayed? Her parents and friends will side with her, regardless. The courts won't care, as long as she shows she'll get joint custody unless proven unfit by police reports. The rest is heresy. Firing missiles at her employment will only make the child and OP suffer increased financial stress. It'll all play out. It always does.

 

Please focus on yourself and your child OP. The wheels will come off and when they do, it'll be much more profound if you have nothing to do with it. It may sound wimpy but take my advice and take the high road.

 

I'm going to disagree with you here, Steadfast. Exposure worked like a charm in my situation, and I've seen it work the same way in many other situations we've seen posted here as well.

 

I think the OP does need to expose, needs to expose it to her work as well since she's using their resources to further her affair.

 

The OP needs to take drastic measures...as others have pointed out, he's not acting in any way that his wife would respect...and no woman remains in love with a man she doesn't have respect for.

 

He needs to fight for his marriage...or file for divorce.

[Radu]

Sorry, but I must post in objection to this advice. Hasn't it been clearly proven that telling and 'rounding the troops' does nothing but put more pain and pressure on the betrayed? Her parents and friends will side with her, regardless. The courts won't care, as long as she shows she'll get joint custody unless proven unfit by police reports. The rest is heresy. Firing missiles at her employment will only make the child and OP suffer increased financial stress. It'll all play out. It always does.

 

Please focus on yourself and your child OP. The wheels will come off and when they do, it'll be much more profound if you have nothing to do with it. It may sound wimpy but take my advice and take the high road.

 

I'd like to see where it has been clearly proven.

 

Affairs on the other hand have been clearly proven to keep ppl in 'the fog'. When they are brought to light, the affair partners sometimes are brought out of the fog. If this would or would not work with the OP's wife is a matter for the OP to decide, but in cases such as this the Spouse that betrays will resort to rewriting public marital history if need be, and the OP's wife is quite far gone.

The OP is in even more danger because he's a guy, need i remind you of the power of false alegations of domestic abuse that sometimes women make ?

There is a public study made in Canada recently where they found over 2k such false allegations made within a 1yr in just one major region.

 

Parents and friends don't always side with the spouse that betrays and if need be, this proof if public can be looked up by his own Daughter later in life if it's in the public.

 

In the end it matters just what the OP wants.

If he wants his wife back, he needs to shatter this 'fog' and the only way to do this is to bring it out in the open in every way possible.

If he just wants it over with, he needs to file for divorce but still document this stuff because again ... men are seen as less in divorce courts. Just in case and for the future.

 

It's better to be safe than to be sorry.

[NotCamelot]

BAsed on my own very recent experience, exposure can stop the A in its tracks, if that's what you want.

 

And, as long as the OM is in the picture, you can't win this fight. The allure that she has to a better (in her mind) life will remain. She has already made the decision to give OM her affection. As long as there are always three of you in the room, you lose.

 

Contact OM and OMW (if he has one)......as soon as possible.

 

Though, contacting her employer could hurt you in court if you land there.

[Emme]

You're a nice husband. Truly sweet, but it's not going to get you anywhere.

 

As a woman sometimes I tell my male associates you do have a treat a woman like sh*t sometimes. Some women treat men who are kind, loving and attentive as waste. You DSCL are considered that in her eyes, waste. She has you so there is no need to invest time into something that is old and replaceable.

 

So this is what your going to do. Your going to rejuvenate who you once were. Let anger be your fuel. Go look at your daughter and think about your wife parading around like she's a carefree teenager with no worries in the world. Visualize your wife taking a stiff hard c*ck from another man. Visualize your wife on her knees sucking him off. Visualize that the reason she won't even place her daughter first (caress/kiss her) is because she has his cum stain stench all over her. If you feel your child deserves better then it's time to pop your wife's balloon. Get a needle.

 

I'm not sure how you want to go forward. If anger(vulgarity) or silence(lawyer) works best for you then choose which one. Today decide that it ends. You're not doing it for you, you are doing it for your daughter. I don't know who the bread winner is in your family but if she is, it doesn't make you or your child worthless.

 

I think you've given her so much time to play with her balloons that she's floating away. It's time for you to bring her ass back down to reality. Start popping.

[turnera]

Sorry, but I must post in objection to this advice. Hasn't it been clearly proven that telling and 'rounding the troops' does nothing but put more pain and pressure on the betrayed?

SO not true. I know dozens of marriages that have been saved by exposing the affair and thus ending it. Tons.

 

You need to get proof of the affair, you need to find out who the OM is (hire a PI - your marriage is worth the cost and a lawyer is a LOT more expensive), you need to make copies of the proof, you need to sit her down and say I know you're cheating and I want it to stop today. If she breaks down (some do), you immediately set up huge precautions so she won't easily cheat again (more on that later); if she refuses, then you move SWIFTLY to sit down and call her parents, her siblings, and her best friend. You tell them what you know and ask them to help you end the affair so the marriage will have a chance to work. Tell them that if she ends the affair and you try to fix the marriage but it still doesn't work, you'll walk away; but that you can't do this work when there's another man in the picture - she won't be honest about things.

 

You sit back and wait for the fireworks, telling yourself that your marriage can survive her anger, but not another man.

 

Do that first. Let us know.

[turnera]

And I'll tell you the story of the quickest end to an affair I've ever seen. From another forum, long ago. Man suspects, goes to one of his empty flip houses, finds his wife and OM naked on the floor. He whips out his phone and takes a picture of them, naked. He swoops up all their clothes, and leaves, before they can even get up. Doesn't say a word. He walks out to the middle of the street, dumps all their clothes there, and drives home. About 5 minutes later, wife shows up, begging him for forgiveness, will do whatever it takes to save her marriage. He sets VERY high hoops to jump through - total transparency, etc. She happily complies. Meanwhile, the man sends the picture to OM's wife, who kicks him out.

 

Man's marriage improves, they no longer take each other for granted, everything's great. About 3 or 4 months later, man walks into restaurant, sees former OM snuggling up to the wife of another guy he knows. Whips out the phone - again - takes picture, and texts it to the guy. I believe THAT guy ended up pounding the crap out of the OM.

 

At any rate, the man and his wife are still very happily married. All because he reacted swiftly, strongly, and he LED his family. No asking, no negotiating, no fear - either you respect me or I'm going (and all my money).

[drifter777]

 

The OP needs to take drastic measures...as others have pointed out, he's not acting in any way that his wife would respect...and no woman remains in love with a man she doesn't have respect for.

 

He needs to fight for his marriage...or file for divorce.

 

Agree. I think filing for divorce is the best way to fight for his marriage and move forward with his personal recovery. Taking action like this is the kind of thing that will either shock his wife into beginning the reconciliation process or confirm she has left the marriage. Either way I truly think the OP will be doing what's best for him.

[stillafool]

OP I guess you have to do what works best for you. I personally can't see myself doing the things suggested here to stop the affair and clear the fog in order for someone to decide to stay with me. I would want them to decide on their own, beg me back and explain what they are going to do to get back in my good graces. I just wouldn't want them if they were the ones having the affair yet I am the one who has to do the work to make them stop. As far as I'm concerned they can have each other.

[turnera]

I personally can't see myself doing the things suggested here to stop the affair and clear the fog in order for someone to decide to stay with me. I would want them to decide on their own,

That's the thing - a cheater usually CAN'T stop the affair on their own. Usually, the only way they will stop is if (1) their spouse says them or me or (2) the exposure made the affair so much 'not fun' that it implodes.

 

Ignoring the PEA chemicals that take over a cheater's mind is foolish.

Edited June 15, 2012 by turnera

[Steadfast]

That's the thing - a cheater usually CAN'T stop the affair on their own. Usually, the only way they will stop is if (1) their spouse says them or me or (2) the exposure made the affair so much 'not fun' that it implodes.

 

Ignoring the PEA chemicals that take over a cheater's mind is foolish.

 

So, your assuming 'taking control' is the answer. Problem is, a marriage with someone in control is a sham. In my opinion. What if your control measures are met with even greater rebellion? What then, more control?

 

I'll stand by my position 100%. Wrecking the affair might produce fear, but it won't restore love. Or respect. Many of you seem to think fear and respect are the same thing. They are not. You can frighten almost anyone to do what you want them to. I maintain this is not a healthy approach.

 

And it isn't a lasting one.

 

I have neither the time nor the desire to dig through all the posts here where the 'advised to expose' betrayed saw even half of the positive results promised. I challenged the posters here to respond with new advice. Nothing. Exposing is good 'front' advice. In hindsight, it blows.

 

Period.

 

In my opinion, whether you love your cheater, want to save your marriage or simply desire to move on, the best course of action is to let go. The betrayer will face the consequences of their actions; everyone does. The ultimate test of love is to grant the betrayer what they wish for. It isn't 'giving up'. It's proving your love is deeper than your need.

[turnera]

So, your assuming 'taking control' is the answer. Problem is, a marriage with someone in control is a sham.

I'm assuming that a betrayed spouse taking control of HIS/HER life is the answer. It's always about that. BSs will all eventually figure out that they have NO CONTROL over their WS. All they can do is determine what THEY will live with, explain that to the cheater, and then move forward. It is then up to the WS to decide if they want to stay married. If they do, they will do what the BS requires to remain married to a (former) cheater. If they don't want to take those extraordinary precautions to keep from cheating again, then they will get divorced.

 

I see it over and over and over - BS comes to a forum like this, asks for a pill to take to make the cheating go away so he/she can go back to the marriage like it was before the cheating. We tell him there IS no pill, you have to do A, B, and C to even keep a marriage now. He fights us: NO, she'll leave me if I stand up to her NOW, I have to find a way to make her happier, I have to do whatever she wants, I have to...

 

We say no, it won't work. You have to take a hardline approach just as you would with ANY addict, to remove the drug (OM) first. THEN you can decide together if you're going to work on the marriage or dissolve it. But nothing works at all if the OM is still in the picture. Proof, exposure, high hoops...that's what works. Eventually, if the BS goes this route and the WS doesn't have their head up their azz, the fog will clear and the FWS will realize what she's done, be horrified with herself, and be glad to do whatever it takes to make the BS feel safe and loved.

[turnera]

But the thing about "it's them or me" is that you give the WS control.

 

The OP needs to take control and simply kick her to the curb and inform the OM's wife (if he has one), so she can get clued in on the affair too.

 

Let this guy have her. And if she comes back with her tail between her legs (which is likely), then the OP can either tell her to take a hike or they can rebuild . . . with the WS working her azz off, not the other way around.

 

You cannot "negotiate" with a woman like this one.

We're saying the same thing. You can 'mentally' kick her to the curb without actually kicking her out. You can expose the affair - to stop it, not to punish, which is what I always advise. I believe that it's easier to repair a marriage if you're in the same house. Some WSs, however, are more stubborn or selfish and will require being physically kicked out so they can suffer more consequences and get a good taste of life without BS protecting them monetarily and emotionally - they need that to truly learn. Each situation is different and you need to do what works best in your situation.

[turnera]

Exposing is good 'front' advice. In hindsight, it blows.

I don't understand what 'front' means.

 

And it sounds like you have experienced a bad situation from exposing. That doesn't make exposing the wrong thing to do; I'm sure there were other factors in your situation that came into play as well.

 

Exposure works because it shines light on the slimy underworld of cheating. It makes what was once exciting, exhilarating - sneaking around and pulling one over on your 'loved ones' so you can sneak in a kiss or a quickie - more shameful and embarrassing. It makes the WS have to look her dad in the eye and know that HE knows. It makes her walk around wondering who else knows. It makes her wonder if this OM is really worth the trouble. And it usually forces her to make a decision - stop the affair and try to reclaim her reputation, or declare her love for the OM to all the world and dare them to say anything. Either way, the BS gets relief.

 

And, in those cases where they continue without doing anything - daring the BS to do anything else, thumbing their nose at him - it now shows the BS that he will HAVE to make a move, which most BSs are reluctant to do. It helps the BS see that he has to reclaim his dignity and live his life for himself, not a cheating wife.

 

No matter what, it gives the BS movement and, somehow, closure of the situation.

[turnera]

Aaah yes, the ridiculous "His Needs, Her Needs" approach to reform a cheating wife. You're absolutely right, it doesn't work.

HNHN is an amazing book, on its own. But the BS has to incorporate its tenets within a broader approach to repairing a damaged marriage. And of course there's no point doing that when the WS is still pining for the OM.

 

A BS can't reform someone else. NO one can reform someone else. All he can do is determine what HE can live with, and make it clear that he will accept nothing less than that; it's then up to the WS to decide if she'll go along with it or lose him.

 

ETA: Oh, now I get it!

[turnera]

But the thing about "it's them or me" is that you give the WS control.

I will say I disagree with this. Saying to a cheater that you can have me or you can have him is RETAINING control over your own life. NO one ever has control over someone else; that's a fantasy. The moment you said "I do," you never had control over whether your spouse remained married to you. They always had the option to leave. So they ALWAYS had control. As did you. Just not over someone else.

[Owl]

I've had a lot of discussion with my wife on the subject of our own recovery.

 

From her (and my own) perspective, I took the right approach. It was a balanced approach.

 

She, like a lot of women engaged in an affair, had convinced herself that I wouldn't care if she had an affair...that I no longer loved her, and her only "out" was to go to someone else.

 

Had I taken the approach of going straight for divorce...that would have indeed driven her straight to OM. That would have convinced her that I did not love her, did not want her, and that her actions were justified...her thought that I no longer loved her would have been proven in her mind.

 

What our marriage needed was for me to demonstrate that I loved her. I needed to take action to fight for our marriage...or it would have ended.

 

At the same time, while demonstrating that I still loved and wanted her...I also had to avoid becoming a doormat. I'll admit...the first week after d-day, I was as "pathetic" as anyone has seen. It was bad.

 

But at the same time...I didn't just tell her to go. I made her clearly understand that the choice to stay or go was hers...but if she went, there'd be no coming back. There'd be nothing between us in any fashion again. I still loved her, still wanted her...but that would end if she continued with the affair, if she went to live with him.

 

I set a boundary, with hard consequences...and I had every intention and plan of enforcing it.

 

I also exposed the affair to her sister, and to her friends. It worked. At first, he sister told her that she'd support her no matter what. Then she thought about it, called my wife back, and told her she was being a total idiot and destroying her family over a fantasy.

 

Another interesting affect of exposure...it turned out that one of my sisters had faced a similar choice...caught up in an EA with someone else...and so could help my wife with advice from her own perspective.

 

I'm gonna be blunt. From my perspective, most WS's act little different than an addict. Take away the addiction, and they will suffer withdrawl, and then slowly "come back to who they were".

 

Remove the immediate threat to the marriage (the affair, the other person), and help them to recover during that time of withdrawl...and as long as you still put effort into being strong and decisive...they will often "come back to you".

 

It's a balancing act. Showing them that you love them gives them hope that there's something to 'come back to'. Showing them that you're strong and willing to take action...gives them more reason to want to come back.

 

Just straight filing for divorce has one effect....divorce. It tells them you don't care, it justifies the affair in their minds, and tells them that the door is already closed.

 

Not doing anything but begging and pleading shows them that you're weak, and not worth keeping a relationship with.

 

Anyone who feels that you shouldn't have to do that much to stay married...has demonstrated how they feel about the marriage. Fair enough...party on, Garth.

 

No one should be condemned for making either choice.