W is having an affair

[reboot]

I don't see the word secret in YOUR definition. How convenient.

[turnera]

I always liked the reasoning that disclosure is for the BETRAYED spouse. Time after time, I'll see a BS who is ashamed of what happened, who suddenly feels worthless or not as good, who expects people are whispering about them behind their backs and, thus, feel even MORE like hiding in their house so they don't have to talk about what happened.

 

To me, exposure is the BS taking back his/her life. Who gives a damn what it does to the cheater and OW/OM? It helps the BS hold his head high, it gets him a lot of people supporting him, it gives him an outlet to talk about what happened, and it shows him that people DO care about him and share his disgust for what happened. That's worth way more than trying to get a cheater back.

[jwi71]

I'll ask now what a person involved in a crumbling marriage might be trying to accomplish. What makes a good relationship? In part it's trust, mutual respect, mutual attraction and mutual goals, The pattern -as I see it- is mutual. That's two people, each having freewill, uniting to walk the same path together. Not one dragging the other by a rope.

 

One, you assume the M is crumbling. That wasn't the case with my xWW and likely not with yours either. Typically, a WS strays to fill a void. Typically, and there are certainly exit A's (but I think them to be "hard to find"), the WS is looking for an "addition to" the M - fill the void with another. The important part is the WS isn't typically looking to END the M (or they simply would).

 

An A isn't the death blow to a M - it's a cry for help. A patently destructive cry but one nonetheless.

 

And I do not understand how disclosure is dragging the WS by a rope? How does disclosure limit the WS' free will? With the A exposed far and wide, how is the WS bound and shackelled? They are still free to choose the AP and even D (or even choose D and the AP).

 

I do not believe I understand how disclosure limits a WS externally. You speak of how that exposure shames them to return. Well, doesn't hiding the A simply serve as a way of...uh...hiding bad behaviors from those who would shame them? Be angry at them. By engaging in an A, the WS tacitly agrees the behavior is wrong. Therefore, that fear already existed Before disclosure They already had those fears and hid the actions to avoid having others know (others who the WS believes would castigate them).

 

Disclosure only forces the WS to face what has been done. It's not about creating or exposing fear or limiting free will at all - as no options to the WS have been lost. It's about being taken to task. To avoid consequence.

 

 

 

Unwanted by whom? I get it and honestly? When my ex cheated if I would have had the leverage to stop her I probably would have used it. Looking back, I'm glad I didn't because I'd rather be involved with someone who chooses not to cheat. And yes; that might be someone who has cheated in the past. My question must be; what are we trying to accomplish by exposing? Or better yet, what will we have if we're successful and exposure ends the affair? Have we treated the symptom, or the cause?

 

What are attempting to accomplish by exposing an A?

It's end. Exposing the A to friends, famy, clergy and others has a rather chilling effect on bad behavior. Remember, the WS already knows his/her actions are wrong (hence the hiding). Exposure simply forces them to face the consequence to not only the BS, but to all who know. And at that point, what you think is shaming is actually healing. Why have friends and famy if not to lean on them, get advice and benefit from them in times of need?

 

And I say this knowing full well that a marriage relationship cannot be repaired while another person is involved.

 

Yet you cannot recommend how to end the A. In fact, in an effort to not infringe upon the WS' free will, you simply file for D. And there's nothing wrong with that. However, I have noticed that the posters here and elsewhere are looking to preserve and repair the M - not simply walk.

 

And that you do not address.

 

But how sincere is the effort if control or exposure is used to move it along?

 

You need, in my mind, to demonstrate how telling of an A restricts the WS' free will. As I see it, no actions are "lost" to the WS with exposure. What possible actions are now precluded by exposure that would have existed without exposure?

 

Using your logic, do we blow it up, then gather the pieces up to see if there's something worth saving?

 

That's an interesting perspective. The A doesn't blow it up exposure does.

I guess we will disagree. I think the A blows it up, not telling my friends and family why the M is strained. Interesting.

 

Or do we hope that the threat of shame, lost income, severed family relations or whatever sends the terrified betrayer...

 

What is the WS terrified of?

And did that fear always exist or did d-day create it?

I would put forth that the fear was always there as evidenced in the cover-up of the AP's and the A itself existence. If they were not afraid, then I would be most curious as to why the A was hidden to begin with?

 

For me, true healing mixes self respect with the gift of loving from others. I've never seen the term 'fake healing' but a possible description might be attempting to fix any issue by attempting to control the actions of someone else.

 

Well, tbh, humanity evolved laws and rules and police and etc precisely because lack of them wasn't conducive to civilization as we know it now. And that involves control. There's no way around it really. I'm glad it's your ideal though.

 

I suggest that a BS let go and live.

 

Sometimes, the BS chooses to fight to maintain the family. Precisely because they love the WS. And honestly, and it's not directly aimed at you, if one isn't willing to fight for the M and the WS....well, I'd question the true depth of emotion and involvement from BS to WS anyway.

 

I do acknowledge that my last response to this topic was rather weak. I apologize, but my attempt was to approach it from a slightly different angle...to keep it from being a "I'm right your wrong' tat for tat.

 

Weak, strong, bat**** crazy - doesn't matter.

You have your view, I have mine.

And that's what discussion is about anyway - I'm right and you're wrong. Doesn't mean the discussion can't bd respectful, civil and genuine.

 

Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't. But that doesn't mean I'd turn down a punch at the OM if given a clean shot.

 

You know, I was gonna let this pass then the devil got the better of me.

It's not ok to expose but it is ok to violently physically assault someone for exercising his/her free will to bang the WS?

 

Not long ago, my ex asked; "Why didn't you fight for me?" Overwhelmed to hear that, I didn't answer. Later, the thought came to me that her real question might have been "Why didn't you fight to let me keep controlling you?" IMO, love can't be taken hostage, or received through blackmail. It isn't bargained for, or given from mercy. Again, this is my opinion.

 

My opinion on that: "Didnt you love me?"

That's what she was asking.

 

In sum, I'm not seeing exposure as limiting free will to the WS. However your "demand" that the BS NOT expose imposes on the free will of the BS. Which I cannot reconcile.

 

I find it a useful tool to end the A and with the A's end the partners can honestly decide if the union is worth saving. At no point can I identify a loss of potential actions that disclosure causes.

[Steadfast]

I don't see the word secret in YOUR definition. How convenient.

 

affair - definition of affair by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

 

I typed 'define affair' into google and randomly clicked on that link.

 

...you're a weak man.

 

Courage isn't the absence of weakness. It's the ability to overcome it.

 

Sometimes, the BS chooses to fight to maintain the family. Precisely because they love the WS.

 

Then that's what you should advise, if applicable.

[reboot]

try "define extramarital affair" since that's what we're actually talking about.

 

Here's just a couple of sentences from one of the links I clicked (wikipedia):

 

The ability to pursue serial and clandestine extramarital affairs whilst safeguarding the secrets and conflict of interest inherent in the practice, requires skill in deception and duplicitous negotiation. Even to hide one affair requires a degree of skill or malicious gaslighting. All these behaviours are more usually called lying.

 

I see the words "clandestine", "secret", "deception", "duplicitous", "gaslighting" and "lying".

[ageofaquarius]

IMO, it's really about the motivation for disclosure. Certainly a BS can disclose to whomever they want to and the support they receive can be very helpful. However, I do believe disclosure to anybody and everybody who will listen as a tool for ending the A doesn't make sense. If the BS wants to make an attempt at reconciliation, the exposure hinders that (again, I only speak from my own experience). During the reconciliation process, outsiders will be there continually questioning. On the other hand, if the BS wants to end the M, how does exposure help with that option? Sometimes it can really backfire. For example, in my workplace a BS called to expose his WW--saying he wanted everyone to know she was having an A. Honestly, most of us reacted with the realization that there are two sides to every story (no excuse for an A, mind you, yet always more than one side) and felt badly for both parties. Quite frankly it was TMI and didn't belong in the workplace.

Now disclosure to family and close friends--in order to have support--is a different story. But widespread disclosure to colleagues and the community, too much of the Scarlet Letter, IMO.

[dscl]

Well long time with no reply.

 

Here is what's going on. Last week me and the wife had a MAJOR blow up, will yelling and cursing at each other. I even called her a side piece to the OM( Nt my best moment but I was angry). Told her to get the **** out of the house and be with the OM. She said FINE! She left the house for ten minutes and then I looked at my driveway and she was just setting in the car talking on her phone.

 

I came out and asked her why she was still here? She said she was having call problems, so I said call a tow truck and leave!! She sat out there for an hour and then came back in and went to the guest room. I checked the cell account on-line and see that she was talking to the OM the whole time, I guess he is seeing that this is turning into a bigger problem than he wanted and told her to not go er to his house!

 

On a side note, I had started the D process about two weeks ago, after this blow up had a meeting with my lawyer and had the paper work filed and having her server at her job, also in the paperwork the OM is listed in it by name!!

 

She should be getting them within the next week. I'm still sad that my family is ending, but there is no way I can keep living in limbo with someone who does not care for me or my daughter any longer. Hard part is that I still feel love for her, but as others have said, I love the memory of who she was.

[Chi townD]

Well long time with no reply.

 

Here is what's going on. Last week me and the wife had a MAJOR blow up, will yelling and cursing at each other. I even called her a side piece to the OM( Nt my best moment but I was angry). Told her to get the **** out of the house and be with the OM. She said FINE! She left the house for ten minutes and then I looked at my driveway and she was just setting in the car talking on her phone.

 

I came out and asked her why she was still here? She said she was having call problems, so I said call a tow truck and leave!! She sat out there for an hour and then came back in and went to the guest room. I checked the cell account on-line and see that she was talking to the OM the whole time, I guess he is seeing that this is turning into a bigger problem than he wanted and told her to not go er to his house!

 

On a side note, I had started the D process about two weeks ago, after this blow up had a meeting with my lawyer and had the paper work filed and having her server at her job, also in the paperwork the OM is listed in it by name!!

 

She should be getting them within the next week. I'm still sad that my family is ending, but there is no way I can keep living in limbo with someone who does not care for me or my daughter any longer. Hard part is that I still feel love for her, but as others have said, I love the memory of who she was.

 

I guess she's discovering that Prince Charming is throwing her under the bus. Don't worry, one day she's realize that she threw her family away for a complete douche rocket!

[FryFish]

Send her to a motel... She is trash.

[dscl]

Send her to a motel... She is trash.

 

I wish I could just throw her out, but legally I can't.

 

All I can do is try to ignore her while she is here, gonna be REAL hard next week once she get's D paperwork.

[dscl]

Oh a couple of other things:

 

Since I've been away, I've got copies of emails that they sent each other, have a recording from a VAR that I put in her car, both talking about how much they love each other and I also got a copy of a love letter that the OM gave to my W stating his never ending love for her, he even signed it!!

 

And of course, my attorney has a copy of EVERY thing.

[FryFish]

You cant legally kick her out... but you can tell her to go to a motel.

[lordmayhem]

You could have packed her crap and dropped her off at the OM's house. Why wait for a tow truck? Then tell the OM, "Here, you can have her!".

[lordmayhem]

Oh a couple of other things:

 

Since I've been away, I've got copies of emails that they sent each other, have a recording from a VAR that I put in her car, both talking about how much they love each other and I also got a copy of a love letter that the OM gave to my W stating his never ending love for her, he even signed it!!

 

And of course, my attorney has a copy of EVERY thing.

 

Is the OM married or has a girlfriend? Have you exposed the A to the Other Man's Wife (OMW) or Other Man's Girl Friend (OMGF)?

[Chi townD]

Well, it sounds like you have all of your ducks in a row! I think you're going to make out great in the settlement. She travels way too much to be the custodial parent, so you'll probably get the kids and she'll have to pay you child support. If you live in an "at fault" state (which I believe you may, if the douche rocket is named on the papers) that's going to help you out tremendiously.

 

If I were you, I would go as far as suing this guy for alienation of affection. You probably won't win it, and your lawyer will probably say it's a waste of time. But! just the legal threat of it will scare the crap out of him and he'll probably throw her under the bus.

[dscl]

Nope we live in a no fault state, putting his name in the paperwork was more to have her run to him and let him know. He is a local business owner and when he hears how involved in this process he is (being that the filing is public record), I'm sure he will be looking to save himself and not be be thinking of helping my stbxw.

 

Sucks being in a no fault state, but hoping the amount of proof I have will scare them not wanting to go to trial and have everything come out.

Edited July 27, 2012 by dscl

[Darth Vader]

Nope we live in a no fault state, putting his name in the paperwork was more to have her run to him and let him know. He is a local business owner and when he hears how involved in this process he is (being that the filing is public record), I'm sure he will be looking to save himself and not be be thinking of helping my stbxw.

 

Sucks being in a no fault state, but hoping the amount of proof I have will scare them not wanting to go to trial and have everything come out.

 

 

Then you had better protect your assets and your D, make sure your ass is cover all over the place and in every way. Protect your hose, bank accounts and cancel all joint credit cards as she will likely max them all out! After all, you don't want to be the one who loses his home and has to pay child support for your wife's actions!

[Emme]

Dscl, congratulations to you. I'm sorry for the pain you might feel about losing your wife but it will pass it time. Put all your positive energy into your daughter. Best wishes for a wonderful future.

[dscl]

Dscl, congratulations to you. I'm sorry for the pain you might feel about losing your wife but it will pass it time. Put all your positive energy into your daughter. Best wishes for a wonderful future.

 

 

Thanks Emme, daughter is where all my energy is going. I'm beginning to get over what my stbxw has done to me, but for her to be able to do what she has done to my daughter, I think I will never be able to forgive/forget it.

[thesixthchild]

Some background:

 

Married for 10yrs, D8

 

About two months ago my wife started telling she had to do a lot of travel for work and has not been home since. Every time she is suppose "something" always come ups that forces her to have to stay. Before I found this board I did what I was not suppose to do non stop calling and txt. She never answered the phone and when she did answer the txt it would be hours later and the excuse was that she was in meetings. About a month ago I sent her a txt that said "Seems you made your choice, hope your jobs gives you everything you need, Goodby"

 

She did not answer for a couple of days and I started mass txt begging her to call me. I guess she finally got sick of it and said "Your txt was disturbing and I'll take to you tmw". Next day no show no call, so I start mass toting, no reply. Last text I sent was "If you made the choice not to be will me and are just thinking of a way to tell me, just say it because it's not fair to me" After an hour I get a reply "You are not happy with me and you should find someone who deos make you happy"

 

Deep down I knew I was going to get this answer but it still hurt.

 

Since then I have got her to meet a couple of time to have dinner with me an D, and every time she is with me she always makes it seem that she does want to be with me and wants to make it work but she just needs some time. At the end if the night we hug, talk nice and I ask her to send me a txt just to say goodnight when she gets to her room, she says she will but never does. When I send a txt in the morning asking what happen to the txt, I get either phone died or I fell asleep.

 

Now what I about to say I know I should not do but I could not help myself. When she was last home she left her email and

Facebook accounts logged in. So everyday I look at them just to see because now I feel she is having a A. For a couple of weeks nothing shows, then one day I see a Facebook message she send to one friends how is a lawyer asking if she could recommend a divorce lawyer. I go numb and my hands start shaking. I can sleep and stay up the whole night. Fast forward to today and I see two emails from a vender for her company, one is his flight info and he ends it with, I love you and can wait to come to you. The other is a love poem.

 

I again go numb in total shock!! I go write to a lawyer to see what my options are. Tell him everything and seeing dollar signs he said I should start the paperwork right now!! The problem is I still love her want us to be a family and in a fog not knowing what to do. She came home today to give our D a book she promised her, the only way I could get her to do it was by guilting her into be sending a txt saying no matter what issues we have, our D NEEDS her mother it's been over a week since she has seen you. She said fine she all come over and take our D to dinner.

 

When she gets here, I'm in the garage because I did not want our D to hear us talking. I say I want to say Im sorry for all the txt and calling, it was selfish of me to only think of what I want and not listen to you when you say you needed time. I then Look her in the face and ask her, do you want to make this work or should we just get a divorce? She said she does want to try. I then I stare her in the face for 30secs and then ask, do you have feelings for someone else? She looks me the face and says....... No

 

I keep my cool while she is lying to my face and say " If you do have feeling, tell me and I can accept that, but don't i.e. if you are", she again says no. I just say OK

 

She then says if I want to go to dinner, I said sure, once there we have idle chet chat, I make sure never to say I love you or take about our R, When we leave she comes home to get clothes because she has to fly out to LA for the rest of the week for work.. sure!! I keep my cool and say nothing. Once she gets her clothes she calls me over and gives me a hug, I give her a real weak hug, she looks at me and says bye, I look at her and say bye. We walk to the door and I just close it behind her without saying another word.

 

So I sit here in my fog thinking I should just file and be done with it, but I still love her and for some reason want us to still be together. I just don't know what to do.

 

My wife cheated on me after seven years of marriage to a random stranger that she met on facebook. We have two daughters and when caught (in our home) she was cold and told me the she didnt love me any more and left me with the girls. I t devestated my whole world. I still love her but cant stand the site of her. I have been in a huge depression ever since. I have stuck with her through several breast cancer surgeries and paid for a weight loss surgery. She turned into someone I never recognized.

 

I truly feel your pain. Your daughter really needs you. Who said there are no real fathers in the world. We are right here. God bless!

[HardPlace2b]

one of the things i try to do is write things out.. which u just did , now read it as if you were reading someone elses post.. what wouold you tell that person in a reply?

 

I would had probably done more than txt and try to call.. I would had followed her , bugged her car , had friends follow her .. tap her phone , get txt messages from the cell company.. but that me..

 

You love her.. ok well , i may be wrong but i feel like , you will probably not want to get back with her once you let her go. I think you are attached and used to her comfort , which she hasnt given you in some time.

 

There are many females out there who will love your company and companionship when you are ready. and your W needs to be a mother...

 

sorry it does suck in the worst way possible.. try and do things which will separate you from your feelings for her

[nofool4u]

I wish I could just throw her out, but legally I can't.

 

No, but you could tell her it would be the decent thing to do for her to move out and that she can show at least that little bit of decency.

 

Or hell, you move out and she will end up owing YOU half the equity. Its real simple, if she doesn't want to pay it, she is going to be the one to have to move out. Otherwise you have your attorney draw up her paying you half the equity in exchange for a quit claim deed.

[dscl]

So sent an email to my lawyer's office asking for a status update on my case and just got a reply stating that a temporary hearing has been set for 9/12, does anyone know what a temporary hearing is? She did not mention if my wife had been served yet, I'm guessing no since I'm sure my wife would had let me know. I sent another email asking about wife being served but I sent it after 6 so I'm sure I won't get a reply today.

[dscl]

Well the stbxw got served at her office this morning. She called once and I did not pick up then sent me a txt saying I had to call her now. She called a second time and I picked up:

 

Wife: Did you have me served with divorce papers?

Me: Yes

Wife: I can't believe you did this and not tell me!!

Me: I tried talking to you all week and you did not want to.

Wife: I can't believe I made you dinner last night!!

Wife: And you could not tell me!!

Me: I tried talking to you...

Wife: SHUT THE F**K UP!!

Me: If you keep talking this way I'm getting off the phone.

Wife: SHUT UP!

 

 

At the point I hanged up the phone. I guess the real war/fight starts tonight.

[reboot]

I wouldn't eat any food she made for you tonight.......