Winning her heart back...

[julianesai]

I have 3 year relationship with someone I love. I cheated on her during the early part of our relationship. I stopped the affair long before she suspected but continued a friendship with the other woman. When my girlfriend asked if I had ever been intimate with her I lied and said that we were just friends. Nothing more.

 

My girlfriend wasn't convinced and decided to write an email to the other introducing herself and asking her what her relationship was with me.

 

My girlfriend was very heartbroken when she got the reply and even then I continued to discount what the other had said and continued to maintain that she was just a friend. I also told my girl that she did want something serious at what time but I told her that I just wanted to be friends.

 

I finally told her the truth when asked about the other woman again just recently. My love asked me to move out because she needed space to sort things and it just wouldn't happen if I was still there. So I did.

 

Now I am trying to win her heart and hand but I am not doing so well. I have not repeated the mistake but I am agonizing over not being with her and kept at arm's distance. I believe she is now dating other guys.

 

Suggestions and advice please...

[Debster]

She is hurting right now and probably feels betrayed, lied to and made a fool.

Winning her back will be hard - not impossible - but hard. It will require changes. You need to apologize not only for cheating but also for lying and trying to cover it up. If you don't know why you did it, find out. The reason why might help her to understand and help both of you prevent it happening again. You also need to understand that it will be a slow process. You might have to tell her where/when/how of everything you do until she can rebuild the trust. It will be a lot of work but the only way it will work is if you show her you mean to make it up to her and follow through on your words with action.

 

Good luck.

[julianesai]

Debster,

 

She doesn't want to see me now and is asking that I give some time. I very affraid of losing her now because she is dating other guys. I've driven by the house a few times and have seen her with another man. I am agonizing quite a bit about this and is considering of moving away so the temptation of driving by doesn't exist as much. Do you think this is a good idea and what type of contact should I have with her at this point if any?

 

Help...

 

David

[sportsloving]

Just out of curiousity, why didn't you come clean before she sent the email and got a reply? Or even fess up after she was told the truth from the other lady? I understand you ended the affair but why did you keep the friendship going? Is it still going?

 

You are going to have to stop driving by her house. You are going to have to give her some time to deal and heal. But before all that, ask her if you two can sit down and have a full discussion, tell her why you had the affair, why you lied, apologize and tell her that she is very important to you. And then tell her when she has had enough time to think about things, that you would like to be able to prove to her that you are not the same person.

 

I am hoping that she will be able to forgive you and give you a second chance, but you must also face the possibility that this may never happen. You not only cheated on her, but you covered it up and lied for so long she won't know what to think about it all. But if you are still friends with the other lady, I would tell her that you can't be friends anymore... that might go a long way with your ex

 

Good luck to you, let us know how it turns out.

[julianesai]

Hi Sportsloving.

 

I was very afraid of hurting and losing Liz. She had made a lot of sacrifices and changes in her life to move and be with me. She very much wanted to get married but I was afraid that my ex-wife that I was also dealing with at the time for visitation custody of my son would get wind of Liz and our combined income and try to motion the courts to involve Liz in one way or another. Either thru examination or financial evaluation. To this day, I'm afraid Liz thinks that I held back on marriage because she fears that I was in love with Pauline. I wasn't.

 

I was hoping that the whole affair and friendship with Pauline would just dissipate while I tried to salvage whatever I had left with Liz and all of the other life issues I was dealing with. I think it all became too overwhelming for me and I just shut right down. Leaving Liz to fend for herself. Maybe I actually left the relationship mentally and emotionally and just didn't say anything to the one person who deserved an explanation.

 

The friendship with Pauline has ended for quite some time now. I did call her a few days back though to apologize for everything I had done.

 

I am currently in counciling seeking help on my behavior of lying ( sometimes called running for cover ). I believe its something I've been doing for a very long time.

 

Should I wait to hear from her? I really don't want her to think that I feel that I have done all that I can and have decided to walk away from this. An occasional card, email, or phone call be suffice.

 

Wanting to win her back...

 

David

[murasaki]

Hi julianesai,

 

It sounds like you're beginning to appreciate how you botched things with your girlfriend (Liz) on a number of fronts. The thing with Pauline was a bad idea from the very start -- not to rub your face in it but it might help to review things a bit: you cheated (obviously bad), and then you chose to maintain a friendship with Pauline (not very smart) but evidently you didn't realize that Pauline either wasn't really on-board with the just-friends status of your relationship, or you thought she would go along with it even though you knew she wanted more (really not smart at all). If your friendship with Pauline had been genuine, she wouldn't have betrayed your secret when asked by your girlfriend to define the relationship that existed between the two of you. Somehow you miscalculated there. To top it all off you lied to your girlfriend when she directly asked you about your status with Pauline (perhaps your biggest blunder after the actual cheating). By lying you conveyed to her that a) maintaining your friendship with Pauline, at the time at least, was more important than being honest with your girlfriend (So on some level the friendship was more important than your relationship with your girlfriend -- you weren't willing to sacrifice it for the sake of honesty, which is an essential element in any relationship); and b) you are perfectly capable of lying repeatedly to her, with apparent sincerity. You didn't just lie once and then come clean once your lie was exposed -- you kept on lying! Do you respect your girlfriend's intelligence? Why did you think that lying was the way to go?

 

I'm not trying to be harsh with you. I get the feeling that a lot of what you did was done without much thought about how your present actions would affect your future with your girlfriend. You took her, and your relationship with her, for granted. Perhaps you didn't deliberately set out to deceive her, but when things started heating up you chose the easiest route for you, the one that, if it worked, would cause you the least amount of difficulty. Your choice suggests that in addition to not always being honest, you're not very good at assessing whether or not something is likely to work (again, did you think your girlfriend was stupid, or did you just not think at all about whether or not she'd buy your lies after getting the response from Pauline?). Nor do you seem to be very good at anticipating the possible consequences -- the likely consequences -- of your actions. That kind of lack of foresight, wanting things to work for one's own convenience, no matter what that foists on other people, is characteristic of adolescents who are just learning the ropes about personal responsibility and dealing with complicated relationships. Alarming to see that in a grown man.

 

I haven't touched on your divorce and how, by your own admission, you allowed your experiences there to color your relationship with your girlfriend. You got burned by your ex-wife so you won't even consider marrying your girlfriend. Which might well suggest to Liz that you're not able to suffiently differentiate between her and your ex-wife, that you just see them both as "women," or some other category that doesn't acknowledge the differences between them.

 

That's what I got out of your story. I'm not suggesting that you're a terrible person, or even one whose flaws are worse than average. But I can appreciate that Liz's misgivings about you go far beyond the hurt she must be feeling right now. And by the way, don't underestimate the hurt. I don't know what to suggest to you. I'm glad you're in counseling -- does Liz know about that? Let her know if she doesn't.

 

If I were in Liz's shoes, the only way I could ever consider taking you back would be if you demonstrated a full, detailed understanding of what was behind your actions and the choices you made.

I would also want to see some determination on your part to uproot and permanently remove anything that's in your life that might threaten the relationship. Any casual friendships with women whom you know in the back of your mind harbor little crushes on you -- even though nothing has ever happened, and in fact you never openly admitted to yourself even that they have a crush on you, you just enjoyed their admiration. You will need to make yourself beyond reproach -- and that would probably mean opening your eyes more so that you're processing things more realistically, instead of as is most convenient for you.

 

Good luck. Even if you don't win Liz back, if you grow up a bit you'll be better situated to lead a more honest emotional life, and to not repeat the kind of mistakes you've made in the past.

[julianesai]

Murasaki,

 

Thank-you for taking the time to write to me and help me with my problem. There is certainly alot to think about and absorb here and I will do my best.

 

Question, how do I show her what I am doing and how long do I wait before I try contacting her?

 

Can you suggest any reading for me to understand what I am doing and to help realize what I have been putting Liz thru?

 

I will keep in touch.

 

Thank-you

 

David

[Bubbles]

It's not and easy thing to do huh? Take your OWN medicine. By that I mean.....you are driving by her house and you know that there is a man with her.

 

At least SHE had the decentcy to wait until after you two broke up.

 

You have done an awful lot of damage...........I have personally been on the receiving end of this situation and beleive me you would probably be better off Not trying to work things out with her. As for myself, I said that I wanted to forgive my s/o but deep, deep in my heart I hated what he did to me. The himiliation of it, the rudeness of Your actions has probably scarred her against any other man on the face of the earth.

I did eventuatlly get back together with my s/o for another 2 years after that but I did not trust him......it would have been a better idea for me NOT to go back to him. I couldn't forgive him no matter how hard I tried.....I wanted to.......but I couldn't

 

Ever hear the song by R. Kelly......"It only takes one man to scar a woman FOREVER!" It's a very true statement.

 

I am not trying to discourage you......I am trying to make you "walk in her shoes" How you feel about another man being with her right now? Is exactly the way she feels everyday.

 

 

Good luck

 

Bubbles

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by murasaki

Hi julianesai,

 

The thing with Pauline was a bad idea from the very start -- not to rub your face in it but it might help to review things a bit: you cheated (obviously bad), and then you chose to maintain a friendship with Pauline (not very smart) but evidently you didn't realize that Pauline either wasn't really on-board with the just-friends status of your relationship, or you thought she would go along with it even though you knew she wanted more (really not smart at all). If your friendship with Pauline had been genuine, she wouldn't have betrayed your secret when asked by your girlfriend to define the relationship that existed between the two of you. Somehow you miscalculated there.

 

wrong! - pauline is no less genuine a friend because she chose to tell the truth when confronted with the question. and you are assuming pauline wanted more but i don't see solid evidence of that. just because they remained friends after the romantic part of their relationship ended does not mean that she was asking for anything more.

 

and here is something else i think you are forgetting: pauline and julian both entered into their relationship together. both made mistakes. i don't understand why julian's needs are more important than pauline's and why she should have to lie about who she was. it seems terribly disrespectful to expect pauline to minimize or discount herself just because julian made a mistake.

[fanou22]

Your girlfriend needs some time to sort things out and know what she wants next. You have to give her the time without pushing her.

 

Having cheated on your gf with an OW, you are posting in a forum where all OW wonder why do men cheat.

Maybe you can help all of the OW understand.

 

I hope you don't mind talking about it and helps us understand.

[murasaki]

Originally posted by julianesai

Murasaki,

 

Thank-you for taking the time to write to me and help me with my problem. There is certainly alot to think about and absorb here and I will do my best.

 

Question, how do I show her what I am doing and how long do I wait before I try contacting her?

 

Can you suggest any reading for me to understand what I am doing and to help realize what I have been putting Liz thru?

 

I will keep in touch.

 

Thank-you

 

David

 

I don't know if there's a how-to book out there for self-awareness. I'm sure there is one that's intended to help you do that but I don't know what it is, and I don't know if it would work. Maybe someone else will post with recommendations. If you're in counseling (I think cognitive behavioral therapy is the way to go for most people who just need to gain perpsective on their problems) that ought to help you. Just step out of yourself a bit, stop thinking only about how things affect you and start thinking about how things affect other people -- because it sounds like you haven't been doing much of that.

 

You start showing her that you're doing that by doing it. She wants to be left alone right now -- do you really respect that? Or are you just frantically trying to figure out the right formula, the right thing to say so that she'll start talking to you as soon as possible? The quickest solution may well not be the best solution.

 

I understand why you're panicking -- you messed up big time. But if you run around in panic mode, desperate to salvage whatever you can with Liz, then you're not really paying attention to what you're doing. And you're not paying attention to her.

 

Accept that right now she doesn't want to interact with you. Surely by now you can appreciate why. That doesn't dovetail with your wish to repair the relationship -- too bad! Relationships only work if both partners are oriented toward the relationship and want to make it work. Right now she's alienated from the relationship -- and you can't pull her back in. She'll come back if and when she's ready, and there's nothing you can do to make her ready. You've been trying to control her in your relationship for a while -- telling her, in effect, that she was imagining something when in fact she was dead on about you and Pauline. Continuing to lie even after she had evidence. You can't stage manage her or manipulate her thoughts & feelings, she's got a mind of her own that processes what she sees and reaches its own conclusions. What she's thinking and feeling leaves you out of the picture for now. To ask her to let you back in, is to ask her to put her thoughts and feelings on the back burner, in deference to what you want. That's not about her -- that's about you. Even if you're hanging your head and begging for forgiveness, if it's not an apology she cares to hear or accept, you're foisting yourself on her. Not respecting her. Even if you're determined to show her how much you've changed and how important she is to you, you're not respecting her and you're not showing that you appreciate her position if you don't stay away as she has asked. If it happens, it will happen on her time, at her convenience. Not yours.

 

Work on yourself. Work on the things that caused you to behave as you did, so that you understand what was going on and you know yourself better, warts and all. That's all you can do. You can't make her see anything. The ball is in her court -- if she chooses to walk away there is nothing you can do about it. Sorry. But the sooner you accept that and get to work on the things you can affect, the sooner you will actually be worthy of her. Or, if she won't have you, you'll be worthy of another good woman.

 

Keep us posted!

[murasaki]

Originally posted by littleflowerpot

wrong! - pauline is no less genuine a friend because she chose to tell the truth when confronted with the question. and you are assuming pauline wanted more but i don't see solid evidence of that. just because they remained friends after the romantic part of their relationship ended does not mean that she was asking for anything more.

 

well, I disagree. I didn't assume anything about Pauline -- I suggested that somehow David misread the situation he had with Pauline. He clearly thought that she would keep the fling a secret, and that it was safe to keep her on in his life as a friend. That wasn't the case.

 

It's just my opinion but I don't think Pauline was a genuine friend. She knew the deal when they got involved, and when it ended she wanted to remain in his life as a friend. Friends respect your relationship, friends want your relationship to work. Friends won't do anything to jeopardize your relationship. If the fling was over and done with, not to be resurrected, and if Pauline represented no kind of threat to Liz & David's relationship, why did Pauline feel the need to tell Liz about something that would surely upset her and jeopardize the relationship? It's not like Pauline was Liz's friend, she was David's. She didn't have a girlfriend's obligation to tell Liz when something was up. And she certainly didn't have David's back -- so how was this the act of a friend?

 

I'm not saying that she didn't have the 'right' to tell Liz when she was asked. But she couldn't tell Liz and reasonably consider herself to be David's friend.

 

A couple of years ago I had a brief affair with a guy who had a girlfriend. After our first date he 'fessed up that he had a girlfriend who was in another country at the time, and while things between them were a little up in the air, he anticipated that someday they'd get married. The fling was less than a month, and we've remained close friends ever since -- long-distance friends, as he also went overseas. He did end up marrying his girlfriend, and they've moved back to the States. I am his friend, and only his friend -- I have my own boyfriend whom I love now, and have no interest in this guy other than as a friend. So unless he tells me that he wants me to explain our fling to his wife, I will never ever say a word about it to her, or to anyone they know. I love him as a friend, I care about his happiness, and I want his marriage to work out. My duty, as I see it, is to be supportive of him. When I meet his wife in a few months, it will be with genuine interest in her as a person. I am no threat to them, nor would I ever wish to be. If that weren't the case I don't think I would have the right to call myself his friend. On the other hand, my duty to my boyfriend is to be up-front with him about the nature of my relationship with my friend (the fling happened years before I met my boyfriend). He knows what happened, and he's fine with it, because he knows it's a thing of the past.

 

and here is something else i think you are forgetting: pauline and julian both entered into their relationship together. both made mistakes. i don't understand why julian's needs are more important than pauline's and why she should have to lie about who she was. it seems terribly disrespectful to expect pauline to minimize or discount herself just because julian made a mistake.

 

I haven't forgotten that at all. I didn't say anything about Pauline being more responsible than David -- in fact, the bulk of responsibility for the mistake lies with him. Pauline didn't make any promises to Liz, Pauline didn't betray her trust. But she chose to stay on in David's life after the affair ended, supposedly as a friend. Friends don't try to damage your relationship with the woman you love. I certainly don't go to the husbands and boyfriends of my girlfriends and tell them how their wives/girlfriends think that they have bad taste in clothes, or can't stand some of the people they hang out with after work, or hate their mothers. And if I was asked by a friend's partner about something I knew was likely a sensitive topic (don't know of anyone who's cheating so it wouldn't be that), I would tell them I just don't know anything about it. I respect my friends, even when I know they've made some mistakes. I leave their relationships up to them -- I don't try to interfere in any way. I don't think I'd be a good friend if I did.

 

Just to reiterate -- I don't think that Pauline was obliged to keep silent when asked by Liz about her affair with David. But the moment she chose to tell is the moment she ceased to have any claim to be David's friend. He apparently didn't realize she would do that -- he misjudged her. Perhaps he misjudged how she really felt about him. Who knows? But think about it -- if he knew she would rat him out to Liz, he had to be pretty stupid to keep her on in his life as a "friend."

[littleflowerpot]

i think it's ridiculous how you are focusing on pauline's supposed "ratting out" on julian. maybe pauline is beginning to want a little more for herself than being second best and maybe she's respecting herself by refusing to lie for a guy that would deny what happened between them. i think that is highly demeaning for anyone to do. yes, i understand that he didn't want to lose his gf but he made the mistake of entering into a relationship with someone else and her feelings and respect for her is just as paramount as his relationship. have you considered it may have been painful for pauline? a lot of us ow enter into relationships like this because we have problems with self esteem and loving ourselves. the first step in healing is to learn to love, value and respect yourself. it isn't very respectful to be asked to lie when you are asked point blank. she didn't cause the problem between julian and his gf - julian did.

[littleflowerpot]

and for the record, here is how i stand on trying to win the gf's heart back:

 

i believe you, julian, that you loved your gf. affairs happen for a variety of reasons but the cheating partner often loves his gf/wife. you made a mistake. i know you regret it and i know you love her. however, you've got to give her the space she requires or you will create an even greater distance between you. all you can do now is to respect her and give her what she tells you she needs. offer to attend couples counseling if she thinks it would help. tell her you love her and that you will be there when she's ready but that you understand her need to be alone and think things through. try to resist the urge to rush her back into your old relationship. she has a lot to think about. there is obviously a problem in your relationship if you cheated on her. let her know you want to work on that problem because she means so much to you and because you love dearly. let her know how regretful and sad you are about this. and respect her need for space.

 

there's a chance that it may not work out. she may decide she doesn't want to remain in the relationship. this will hurt but you have to respect it and move on. this is often what's expected of the OW when her attached guy tells her it's over. it's painful as hell but she has to move on.

[murasaki]

Originally posted by littleflowerpot

i think it's ridiculous how you are focusing on pauline's supposed "ratting out" on julian. maybe pauline is beginning to want a little more for herself than being second best and maybe she's respecting herself by refusing to lie for a guy that would deny what happened between them. i think that is highly demeaning for anyone to do. yes, i understand that he didn't want to lose his gf but he made the mistake of entering into a relationship with someone else and her feelings and respect for her is just as paramount as his relationship. have you considered it may have been painful for pauline? a lot of us ow enter into relationships like this because we have problems with self esteem and loving ourselves. the first step in healing is to learn to love, value and respect yourself. it isn't very respectful to be asked to lie when you are asked point blank. she didn't cause the problem between julian and his gf - julian did.

 

What is ridiculous is how you're focused on Pauline in this story -- she's a minor figure who really doesn't matter. This thread is about David and how he botched his relationship with Liz. I've mentioned Pauline only in the context of being one of David's mistakes, another instance where he apparently failed to appreciate what was really going on because he just wanted things to be the way that was most convenient for him. I think it's important that David recognizes all of the ways he saw things through a very warped lens. This didn't just happen because Pauline took it upon herself to inform Liz about the relationship. In choosing to keep Pauline in his life, David practically invited Liz to ask questions. That wasn't very smart.

 

I know you post on OW threads, flowerpot, and I guess that's your situation, but that doesn't mean that you have to put the OW front and center in every situation. I'm sure Pauline has lots of feelings, all legitimate, all worth thinking about. But that's not what this thread is about. David isn't interested in patching things up with Pauline. He's interested in getting Liz back. He's got a lot of ground to cover, and when he gets through it he may well look back and see that he didn't treat Pauline very well. Who knows -- he hasn't given us many details about their relationship, why it ended, why they remained friends after. You can only speculate -- and your situation might be very different from what theirs was. So I suggest putting Pauline aside in this discussion -- it's not about her. She only figures in insofar as David miscalculated about her, and now he's paying the price.

[sportsloving]

Hi David

 

I think you really need to ask your ex to sit down and talk to you. Tell her your reasons for the affair, and the lying and explain that you are also going to counseling to correct this behavior. And let her know that you are no longer in communication with Pauline.

 

Also tell her what your fears about marrying her. Tell her that it had nothing to do with her but that you were afraid your ex would use it against you for more child support and such (which they can not do because your child support is based solely on your income, doesn't matter if who you marry).

 

If she won't agree to talking, write it all out, as you have done here and send it to her. Take your time with the letter, read it, read it again and again, and cover all your points .

 

I am sorry you are going through all this, but I really hope you two can work things out and look for a future together. Cheating is a hard thing to deal with, perhaps she would look into couple counseling with you? I do wish you loads of luck and hope it works out for the best

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by murasaki

What is ridiculous is how you're focused on Pauline in this story -- she's a minor figure who really doesn't matter. This thread is about David and how he botched his relationship with Liz. I've mentioned Pauline only in the context of being one of David's mistakes, another instance where he apparently failed to appreciate what was really going on because he just wanted things to be the way that was most convenient for him. I think it's important that David recognizes all of the ways he saw things through a very warped lens. This didn't just happen because Pauline took it upon herself to inform Liz about the relationship. In choosing to keep Pauline in his life, David practically invited Liz to ask questions. That wasn't very smart.

 

I know you post on OW threads, flowerpot, and I guess that's your situation, but that doesn't mean that you have to put the OW front and center in every situation. I'm sure Pauline has lots of feelings, all legitimate, all worth thinking about. But that's not what this thread is about. David isn't interested in patching things up with Pauline. He's interested in getting Liz back. He's got a lot of ground to cover, and when he gets through it he may well look back and see that he didn't treat Pauline very well. Who knows -- he hasn't given us many details about their relationship, why it ended, why they remained friends after. You can only speculate -- and your situation might be very different from what theirs was. So I suggest putting Pauline aside in this discussion -- it's not about her. She only figures in insofar as David miscalculated about her, and now he's paying the price.

 

i replied about the way you interpreted pauline's admittance to the gf when she was asked. i know that this thread is about him getting back with his gf (it's strange he put this thread in this forum though because it doesn't belong here) but i was responding to the way you made such negative assumptions about pauline. this is a forum for the OW/OM and making such assumptions about them is a bit offensive in my opinion. so is your comment that pauline is a minor player that doesn't matter. remember, my comment was to you based on your negative assumption.

 

i don't know if you noticed but i certainly did comment on what i believe he should do in terms of his relationship with his gf. i also think that honesty is the best way to go. often, a partner recognizes signs and intuits things which he himself admitted he insisted to her weren't true. that is hurtful and can cause a person to feel invalidated. being forthcoming with answers to questions offers validation and also helps both partners to be able to communicate about the underlying problems that aided him in making his mistake in the first place.

 

btw, my situation is that i was the OW in a relationship where he wasn't married but had a long-term gf. he was my best friend first (for several years). we both made mistakes and are now trying to heal from it. (i tell you this so you won't make such assumptions about me as well and because you brought up my situation)

[jw32802]

julianesai

 

Id like to talk to you, why did you cheat on her to begin with and when did you FINALLY REALIZE that you want her and only her?