awful billboard

[eleanorhurting]

I just saw someone on fb post a picture of a billboard that said:

 

"It is God's job to judge the terrorists, it is our job to arrange the meeting."

 

Maybe I am way behind and this was a long time ago but how could this even exist??? Maybe I have been living in my liberal bubble for too long.

 

Isn't that what terrorists do? Use God as an excuse to kill people? Wouldn't we be doing the same by having a billboard like that?

 

I don't even know where to begin on how wrong that statement is to me

[Radu]

Them terrorists who are religious extremists think the same way.

 

Though I doubt that the religious extremist who put up that billboard went through what some of the suicide bombers go through before being recruited.

[BetheButterfly]

I just saw someone on fb post a picture of a billboard that said:

 

"It is God's job to judge the terrorists, it is our job to arrange the meeting."

 

Maybe I am way behind and this was a long time ago but how could this even exist??? Maybe I have been living in my liberal bubble for too long.

 

Isn't that what terrorists do? Use God as an excuse to kill people? Wouldn't we be doing the same by having a billboard like that?

 

I don't even know where to begin on how wrong that statement is to me

 

Hello,

 

I agree. It is an awful billboard.

 

It sure doesn't show any importance placed on Jesus' commands to love one's enemies, do good for them, pray for them, and forgive, hmm?

[thatone]

I just saw someone on fb post a picture of a billboard that said:

 

"It is God's job to judge the terrorists, it is our job to arrange the meeting."

 

Maybe I am way behind and this was a long time ago but how could this even exist??? Maybe I have been living in my liberal bubble for too long.

 

Isn't that what terrorists do? Use God as an excuse to kill people? Wouldn't we be doing the same by having a billboard like that?

 

I don't even know where to begin on how wrong that statement is to me

 

inquistions? crusades?

 

convincing uneducated but otherwise good people to do terrible things for the profit of those in power has been a cornerstone of religion since...well...forever.

[Feelin Frisky]

Yeah, like there's a god

[Eddie Edirol]

You dont deal with religious extremist terrorists by playing fair, forgiving them and walking away from them. You wind up getting shot in the back that way. You take them out any way possible, whether it be hypocritical or not, so that civilians in the US sitting at their computers posting on LoveShack dont get killed. And of course some privatized war supplier profits at the same time.

[Nohbody]

As someone who has personally fought against terrorists and studied terrorism, my biggest take-away is that the minute you relegate terrorists to "enemy" that need to be "eliminated by any means possible" you have given them more credibility.

 

In my (admittedly limited, what with only 3 tours to Iraq) experience, the best way to deal with terrorists is to use law enforcement methods. By treating terrorists like criminals (up to and including giving them a public trial) instead of enemy combatants you expose their methods for what they really are and can more easily strip away the romanticized hype and the propaganda that keep the next wave of recruits in the wings.

 

But that's just my opinion.

[thatone]

As someone who has personally fought against terrorists and studied terrorism, my biggest take-away is that the minute you relegate terrorists to "enemy" that need to be "eliminated by any means possible" you have given them more credibility.

 

In my (admittedly limited, what with only 3 tours to Iraq) experience, the best way to deal with terrorists is to use law enforcement methods. By treating terrorists like criminals (up to and including giving them a public trial) instead of enemy combatants you expose their methods for what they really are and can more easily strip away the romanticized hype and the propaganda that keep the next wave of recruits in the wings.

 

But that's just my opinion.

 

but we ain't selling the truth, we're selling halliburton contracts.

[BetheButterfly]

I have to admit....I have a hard time praying for my enemies( some days yes, some days no. I am sure I will be brought to task for it). I don't get the billboard though. I don't get the billboards calling the President an animal or pictures aborted fetuses. I ignore nuts on all sides of the equation.

 

It is hard to do, yeah. I think it takes strength/help from God to even be able to forgive, love, bless, and do good to one's enemies. It's not natural human nature to do that. Normally, humans feel the need to get revenge or to simply not forgive.

 

I think the best way to have helped the USA after 9/11 would have been not to attack Afghanistan with "shock and awe", but rather to have helped the country in education and shown love to them. The best way to create more "terrorists" is to kill people whose surviving loved ones become bitter, hateful against those who killed their family members, and desirous of getting revenge.

 

Killing helps the cycle of revenge grow bigger. Hate gives birth to hate.

 

I am glad that the American forces helped with humanitarian projects in Afghanistan, but sadly that came too late in the hearts of many people. It would have been best to not have attacked Afghanistan, but to have done the humanitarian projects, with soldiers as guards for those humanitarian projects.

 

If Christians had risen up and said "Let's love our enemies like Jesus commanded instead of want to kill them" it is possible many women and children in Afghanistan would not be dead today... the numbers of people, including women and children, who died at the hands of American soldiers are thousands more than the people, including women and children, who died at the hands of some extremists from Saudi Arabia and Egypt on 9/11.

 

Don't get me wrong. I am grateful for American soldiers whose bravery and protection are important. However, they don't get to choose what or where or how they fight. They follow orders. I think the orders given to attack Afghanistan (and then later, Iraq) were not taking into consideration Jesus' commands to love one's enemies.

 

Some Christians say well Jesus wasn't talking about protecting a country, which is true. Interestingly, Jesus did not at all attempt to rescue his people from the Romans who were oppressing them. However, I wonder what would have happened on the "War on terror" if instead of meeting it with killing/bombs/destruction, we had met it with love, kindness, and helping with humanitarian projects/schools?

 

Sorry for the rant. It is a subject that really bugs me, because I mourn for the civilians in Afghanistan. Afghanistan is still going through hard times, and they have gone through hard times for so long...

[Nohbody]

 

 

 

If Christians had risen up and said "Let's love our enemies like Jesus commanded instead of want to kill them" it is possible many women and children in Afghanistan would not be dead today... the numbers of people, including women and children, who died at the hands of American soldiers are thousands more than the people, including women and children, who died at the hands of some extremists from Saudi Arabia and Egypt on 9/11.

 

 

You really know how to show the vets you care. I'm surprised you stopped short of calling us baby killers.

[BetheButterfly]

You really know how to show the vets you care. I'm surprised you stopped short of calling us baby killers.

 

My Papaw is a vet. Am I grateful for his service and the potential that he could have lost his life? Yes. Am I grateful that he was not sent to Afghanistan, like my cousin's husband was before they got married? Yes.

 

I do respect veterans, but do you understand that soldiers do not have a say in what they do? They are to obey. period. They are to follow orders without questioning if those orders are right or wrong. In some cases, orders can be right (like helping with humanitarian projects). in other cases, like nuking cities full of innocent civilians, like in the case with Japan, those orders are dead wrong.

 

So, seeing as I understand that soldiers obey orders, the issue I have with the USA is not with the soldiers who merely follow orders, but rather the orders themselves, which come from higher up. People disagree with things the USA does everyday. Republicans tend to disagree with President Obama. Democrats tend to disagree with former President Bush. That's just part of being an American, having the right to disagree with one's government.

 

Babies by the way, can be labeled with children. If a solder does indeed obey an order which includes killing children younger than 2 years old, what does that make that soldier? Better yet, what does that make the person/group of people who give the orders?

Edited June 19, 2012 by BetheButterfly

[BetheButterfly]

inquistions? crusades?

/QUOTE]

 

The inquisitions and crusades are horrible robberies, torture sessions, and massacres that definitely disobey Jesus' commands.

Edited June 19, 2012 by BetheButterfly

[Nohbody]

Bethebutterfly,

I'm a third generation Marine. I followed my orders and I fought in Iraq three different times over the course of 4 years. Do I understand that "soldiers" follow orders? I understand that better than you will ever be able to.

 

I think you are on a moralistic high horse, and you suppose to judge people with whom you have had no direct experience, and have suffered in circumstances you couldn't possibly imagine. You've never served anything greater than yourself, even when you didn't want to. You have no idea what real honor, courage, and commitment is. Your opinion is meaningless.

[BetheButterfly]

Bethebutterfly,

I'm a third generation Marine. I followed my orders and I fought in Iraq three different times over the course of 4 years. Do I understand that "soldiers" follow orders? I understand that better than you will ever be able to.

 

I think you are on a moralistic high horse, and you suppose to judge people with whom you have had no direct experience, and have suffered in circumstances you couldn't possibly imagine. You've never served anything greater than yourself, even when you didn't want to. You have no idea what real honor, courage, and commitment is. Your opinion is meaningless.

 

If you do not agree with Jesus' commands to love your enemies, that is fine. I am curious how many people you killed, but possibly you would not tell me. Hopefully you never killed a child.

 

I asked my Papaw if he had killed a child before, and he said no. He was not involved however in fighting, thankfully. He was more a protective presence in other countries.

 

I haven't asked my cousin's husband if he ever killed a child. However, it does make me very ashamed that children die because of the orders of people who don't care about them. Whether you want to judge me and accuse me of whatever or not, that does not change the fact that children are dead because of orders some soldiers obeyed. So, judge me all you like. Feel free to think I'm a horrible person because I don't like that children in other country were killed by Americans. It does not matter to me what you think. What matters to me is what Jesus thinks.

[BetheButterfly]

For people with caring hearts:

 

I am so grateful this little girl survived to adulthood, with her very important message. I hope more people, including proud veterans, listen to testimonies such as this girl grown up to be a wonderful woman: Kim Phuc

(I boldened some.)

 

"Kim: I would like them to take away that war is horrible and that empathy is the most important quality. As a mother I would never want my children to suffer the way I did. Children should not suffer like that little girl in the photo did. I would also like them to work the best they can to avoid war and to lead a peaceful life amongst their friends, relatives and their communities. They should think twice before starting wars, they should learn to negotiate and reconcile.

 

?Forgive & love?, urges Kim Phuc on the 40th anniversary of the photo seen around the world | United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization

[Eddie Edirol]

"Kim: I would like them to take away that war is horrible and that empathy is the most important quality. As a mother I would never want my children to suffer the way I did. Children should not suffer like that little girl in the photo did. I would also like them to work the best they can to avoid war and to lead a peaceful life amongst their friends, relatives and their communities. They should think twice before starting wars, they should learn to negotiate and reconcile.

 

Ha, her words ar going in and out of peoples ears, until war is no longer profitable.

[BetheButterfly]

Ha, her words ar going in and out of peoples ears, until war is no longer profitable.

 

Sad but true

 

I wish more people could see though the horrible evils war brings, of children dying.

 

Thankfully, a wonderful man, a photographer saw this human being named Kim when she was a naked, burnt little girl. He brought her to medics, and strived to help her. I am so grateful for what he did! His name is Huynh Cong 'Nick' Ut and I am so glad he took the time to help this precious little human being, a child, who was hurting, due to no fault of her own.

 

I have to go now.

[Nohbody]

If you do not agree with Jesus' commands to love your enemies, that is fine. I am curious how many people you killed, but possibly you would not tell me. Hopefully you never killed a child.

 

I asked my Papaw if he had killed a child before, and he said no. He was not involved however in fighting, thankfully. He was more a protective presence in other countries.

 

I haven't asked my cousin's husband if he ever killed a child. However, it does make me very ashamed that children die because of the orders of people who don't care about them. Whether you want to judge me and accuse me of whatever or not, that does not change the fact that children are dead because of orders some soldiers obeyed. So, judge me all you like. Feel free to think I'm a horrible person because I don't like that children in other country were killed by Americans. It does not matter to me what you think. What matters to me is what Jesus thinks.

 

I don't like feeling attacked because I am a veteran. Yes. I've killed people. How many? I honestly don't know. I didn't keep count. I have never derived any pleasure from killing - but they did give me a medal for it.

 

I bet you had no problem paying your taxes and paying for every bomb, bullet, and gallon of gasoline necessary to wage war. George W. Bush believed god told him to invade Iraq. You can look that one up.

 

Do you feel persecuted now? Judged? That's sad. Yes, Children were killed in the war. Many children were killed by IEDs set up by extremists. You don't condemn them?

 

You care so much about children, what have you ever done for any of them? Do you sponsor care packages? No, I imagine not. You sit there and pass judgement on people who answered when their country called them.

 

What about the people who have come back, whose lives were destroyed by the war? How many children are now in broken homes because of the ravages of war on our veterans? Do you care about them?

[quickjoe]

I don't like feeling attacked because I am a veteran.You care so much about children, what have you ever done for any of them? Do you sponsor care packages? No, I imagine not. You sit there and pass judgement on people who answered when their country called them.

This is really poor form. Don't assume what other people do or don't do just to make it easier to attack them. This just makes you look like an overly judgemental toolbag who can't accept that anybody else can have a valid point of view.

 

Take your own advice, and get off your high horse.

[Nohbody]

This is really poor form. Don't assume what other people do or don't do just to make it easier to attack them. This just makes you look like an overly judgemental toolbag who can't accept that anybody else can have a valid point of view.

 

Take your own advice, and get off your high horse.

 

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize I should just smile when someone asks me how many people I have killed.

 

I don't care what you think of me, and I don't expect you to have the capacity to empathize with me.

[Anela]

If you do not agree with Jesus' commands to love your enemies, that is fine. I am curious how many people you killed, but possibly you would not tell me. Hopefully you never killed a child.

 

I asked my Papaw if he had killed a child before, and he said no. He was not involved however in fighting, thankfully. He was more a protective presence in other countries.

 

I haven't asked my cousin's husband if he ever killed a child. However, it does make me very ashamed that children die because of the orders of people who don't care about them. Whether you want to judge me and accuse me of whatever or not, that does not change the fact that children are dead because of orders some soldiers obeyed. So, judge me all you like. Feel free to think I'm a horrible person because I don't like that children in other country were killed by Americans. It does not matter to me what you think. What matters to me is what Jesus thinks.

 

The man is dealing with PTSD, and personally, I'm just glad that he made it back home alive, and was just talking about getting treatment for said PTSD. Do you think this is helping him? Or do you think that God and jesus helped him to get home, and then put the idea into his head to check out a hospital, and potentially help himself to feel better (as better as you can feel after what he's been through). Or maybe he's supposed to hate himself after you berate him, and get no help at all? What do you think God and Jesus would think the appropriate way for you to treat another of god's children - who just happened to serve in a war - would be?

Edited June 19, 2012 by Anela

[denise_xo]

I don't agree with the premise that questioning war, and the large amount of civilian casualties that come with modern wars, is equal to not respecting veterans. I have lived in a war zone, done my work to the sound of bombs dropping, and had guns pointed at me more times than I remember. Sometimes I've looked into the eyes of soldiers on the 'other' side and genuinely felt sorry for them. Behind the military gear, a lot of them were young and scared. But empathising with them at the personal level doesn't mean that I have to respect the over arching 'mission' that they were there to carry out, or the rationale behind it, or the politicians who sent them there. We have to be allowed to criticise the rationale behind a war, without that implying that we are judging the people who were sent to carry the war out.

[Anela]

I agree with you, but I feel like talking about how many people a person has killed, and saying that you hope they haven't killed any children, is a low blow. Nohbody was feeling judged. In his first post in this thread, he said that he felt that war wasn't the way to go - that terrorists should be treated like any other criminal.

 

Surely one can question the morality of the people sending the soldiers to war, without hurting someone even more, who is already in a bad way?

[denise_xo]

I agree with you, but I feel like talking about how many people a person has killed, and saying that you hope they haven't killed any children, is a low blow. Nohbody was feeling judged. In his first post in this thread, he said that he felt that war wasn't the way to go - that terrorists should be treated like any other criminal.

 

Surely one can question the morality of the people sending the soldiers to war, without hurting someone even more, who is already in a bad way?

 

Absolutely, I agree. My comment was intended more on a general level - I feel so often that these issues are conflated, which leads to two things, neither of which are helpful: a) that people like Nohbody experience exactly what he just experienced in this thread, i.e. that those who fought for their countries feel unappreciated and/or attacked, and b) that legitimate criticism is stifled (not referring to this thread here, but you see it a lot in media and public debates and so on, in a 'with us or against us' kind of way).

[ConnieLu]

I wonder what it would feel like to have signed up for a war with the kind of naive ideas 18 year olds believe in-- valor, bravery, safety, and then have the experience be absolutely nothing like the commercials, the novels, the ideas you had in your head, but be unable to back out because you'd risk jail time on top of personal and familial shame. I bet I'd feel pretty stuck.

 

I wonder how it would feel if during that experience, which was nothing like what you signed up for, was the exact opposite, actually, you were in a position where you had to either watch people die, or kill someone. ****, you didn't even want to be here. ****, I never wanted to kill anyone. You think I derive pleasure from this? Should I just die? Should I let people who have risked their lives for me die? Should I watch it happen or should I get up and do something? Well ****, now I've done something, and I'm going to relive it in my mind for the rest of my life.

 

I wonder how it would feel to be a sensitive person knows he has done things he nor any reasonable person ever wants to do, and on some level consciously knows he wasn't given much of a choice, but on a more emotional hate himself for it. I bet he level wishes he could go back to before that happened and stay naive for just a little longer. Do some other stupid thing naive 18 year olds do, like study art. Why couldn't I have done that? I'd have turned out broke and pretentious that way, but at least I wouldn't know that I have the capacity to kill a man, and wouldn't have to live with that as a part of my soul for the rest of my life.

 

I wonder if I would sometimes wish I had died instead, so I wouldn't have to view myself in this way. I wonder how wanting to die would make me feel about myself, how much I'd question my sanity, because everyone knows that **** ain't right.

 

I wonder how it would feel to be imprisoned by my conflicted feelings. To wish in my heart I had never done any of it but at the same time have a deep need to justify some part of it when people talk about it from the comfort of their homes, from the comfort behind eyes that have never watched anyone die at their own hands. I wonder how it would feel to have the innocent part of me agree-- everyone knows war is horrible and no one wants to do it-- but have the other part of me needing to feel like I was almost killed and mentally destroyed for a good reason. There has to be a reason this happened to me. i had to have done something good. I can't think about death every day for no reason.

 

I don't know how any of this would feel. I don't even know IF this is something anyone feels. But if anyone does feel this way, I bet it's more horrible than anything I've ever felt.