Torn

[ChemistQueen]

I've posted on here previously about my relationship with my boyfriend. Parental issues were a part of that, but things have recently reached a head and I'm at a complete loss.

 

At 23, I thought I'd have had things more figured out. Two years ago, my parents thought I was wonderful. I was going to a Catholic private college, attending Catholic events, studying hard and planning on being a pharmacist so I could move back to my hometown, marry a good Catholic Republican boy and live close enough to mom and dad to go out for fish with them every Friday night and breakfast after Mass on Sunday.

 

In the middle of it all, I was struggling. I was questioning. I was uncomfortable with things I saw and heard and was learning, but I didn't know how to vocalize them. These things were political, spiritual, and career related. But I kept praying- kept going to church. Kept searching for the "me" that felt right and okay and solid.

 

On a whim, my senior year of undergrad, I applied to a graduate program in chemistry. PhD track. One of my wonderful professors had pulled me aside and told me that he thought if I gave myself half a chance, I would make a fantastic scientist. I was encouraged to give grad school a shot. In the midst of applying to millions and trillions of pharmacy schools, I sent out a single graduate program application. Because- why not?

 

While I was waiting for responses on everything, I began to do research. The more I read, the more I felt that pharmacy wasn't going to be my thing. I told my parents. They weren't pleased. Academics are all crazy potheads, they insisted. (not a direct quote, but you get the idea...) I wouldn't be able to live close to home with a job like that. I wouldn't be able to go to school close to home. I would waste my life in school.

 

There were many angst-ridden conversations at this point. I was frustrated. I loved chemistry. I loved research. I loved being in the lab. I loved my family.

 

Fast forward a month or so- decision letters. I got accepted to the graduate program. I attended a recruitment weekend, and I was hooked. I knew what I had to do.

 

They weren't happy, were suspicious of the fact that they're paying me to be here (that's how science graduate programs work, most of the time...) but begrudgingly helped me set up an apartment, insurance, etc. This would be my first time living out of state. I was terrified and excited.

 

Within a month or two, the relationship I was in fell apart. He and I were simply not going in the same directions. He didn't want a working wife- with a PhD in chemistry, I think it's pretty clear where I stand with that. We were also beginning to differ on some political matters- all of the thoughts that had been brewing in undergrad had begun to come to fruition. I was sick of riding the fence to keep the peace, both politically and spiritually.

 

Shortly thereafter, I began dating the man I'm currently with. The last 8 months have been the best and worst of my life.

 

My parents are disappointed. I feel like I've failed them in every way possible. To make matters worse, I've gotten myself into a bit of financial trouble. I'd been working towards fixing it but when a paycheck got stalled due to paperwork I had no savings to back me up and I had no choice but to call them and ask for help.

 

I feel completely worthless. I'm without a home. My faith is in a shambles. There are many reasons for this- not least of all the way I've seen my family treat someone I love. I'm a scientist. I have begun to look at literature surrounding homosexuality- all signs point to a biological basis. My graduate adviser has been with his partner for 13 years. They're struggling in vain to adopt a child. When an adoption went through a few months ago, they waited and planned and prayed for that child only to have it stillborn. Do you know my mother's response to that? God doesn't want gays to have kids. Two men and that baby's birth mother will be in pain for the rest of their lives, all because God saw fit to kill a baby instead of give it to a loving, committed couple. I don't know about most of you, but that line of thinking just doesn't sit with me. How can I attend a church knowing that most of the folks in the pews agree with my mom- that Homosexuality is punishable by God by killing babies, and that I have no business dating a wonderful, decent, successful man that doesn't really know what he believes?

 

I did fail financially. This is the first time I've been on my own. I overextended myself right away, never made a budget, and have been struggling to dig out ever since. This is proving them right, somehow, about graduate school being a sham. Or proving to them that I'm not capable of handling adult things.

 

Politics are another story. I'm so morally torn I don't think I can bring myself to vote in the upcoming presidential election. I feel sick just thinking about having to make a decision that I know I'll feel guilty for, no matter who I choose.

 

I have always been close to my family. But a string of decisions seem to have torn my family to shreds. I feel guilty. I feel terrible. But I can't go back because I'm happy. But I'm sick knowing that my family will never love me like they used to.

 

I know where I have to go and what I have to do and who I'm supposed to be, but no one saw it coming. To them, they've lost a daughter.

 

I just want to let go of them and do what I have to do, love who I love, and live my life in peace. But I'll never be happy until they're happy. My mother is manipulative and angry and bitter. I never feel more screwed up than when I get off the phone with her. So I don't call. And then get berated for not calling.

 

 

I don't know how much longer I can take this separation. I can't take this leading a double life. I am one person to my parents- the person I have to be around them is not the person everyone else sees.

 

I'm sorry for the rambling- it's late here, but I can't sleep. I thought perhaps sharing my thoughts might help.

 

Thanks in advance for reading.

[TaraMaiden]

Oh my goodness you poor thing.

 

first of all, what I want you to do is to sit calmly, and take a deep breath or five, and release them very slowly.

Calm your body, and above all, calm your mind, and drop your shoulders, you have soooo much tension in them!

 

Right.

Let me just put a couple of things down on here...

 

You seem to be interconnecting every aspect of your life and believing that they're all co-dependent.

 

They're not.

 

you have a methodical mind.

you need to break it down into manageable sections and formulate a plan for all of them.

 

Do something called Mind-mapping, and try to put emotion aside for a second.

(Hard? yes, sure... but making decisions with an emotional thumb on the scales is fatal.)

 

draw a ball and put you in the middle, then draw a 'tentacle' for each issue, out from that circle.

 

Now look at each issue separately, and think about that one, and that one alone, and decide what all the factors involved, and governing that issue, are.

 

Talk about getting your thoughts down on paper (and yes, you might need a big sheet! but that's ok!)

 

Things WILL touch upon each other - but that, you can practically deal with, when it does,

 

REMEMBER:

What you're doing is analysing these different factors, based on Reason and Logic ALONE.

 

Leave the emotional side of the love for your parents - and theirs for you - OUT of it - for now.

 

Your head is a mess, and you need to prioritise what is a really important jumble, and what is flak that can drop off the side.

 

Need to have feedback before continuing....

[TaraMaiden]

In the middle of it all, I was struggling. I was questioning. I was uncomfortable with things I saw and heard and was learning, but I didn't know how to vocalize them. These things were political, spiritual, and career related. But I kept praying- kept going to church. Kept searching for the "me" that felt right and okay and solid.

this is what i mean about different things melding and really not needing to.

In the UK, Church and State are two completely different areas. History will tell you what a shambles happens when the two collide, or it's attempted to combine them. All Hell - literally! - breaks loose.

and I hate to say it - and may well get blasted by those on the forum who are extremely Christian and religious - but your logical, rational and scientific mind is beginning to see the glaring flaws in Religion, insofar as the way it's been fed to you, is concerned.

I will merely say here that i spent my formative years as a devout, practising, diligent and active Roman Catholic. I was spoon-fed well up into my 40's. Now, I'm Buddhist, so I promise you, I can see BOTH sides of the fence from where I'm sitting. I've been there, done it, bought the book, seen the movie and eaten my way through the entire menu, ok?

 

While I was waiting for responses on everything, I began to do research. The more I read, the more I felt that pharmacy wasn't going to be my thing. I told my parents. They weren't pleased.

That's a shame, but it's not their life, and when we become 110% convinced - as you were - that something is - or isn't going to gel, we have to go with it. Only hindsight is 20/20 vision. while everything lies before us, we have to grasp the nettle...

 

There were many angst-ridden conversations at this point. I was frustrated. I loved chemistry. I loved research. I loved being in the lab. I loved my family.

this sentence is like a 'spot the odd one out'. The first three are based on analysis, logic, reason, calculation, research and examination. the last one is completely emotive.

The love of your family isn't a factor. It's a given, whether you're working in a lab, or stacking shelves in Wal-Mart. Just remember that factor, for a second, and hold that thought....

 

 

They weren't happy, were suspicious of the fact that they're paying me to be here (that's how science graduate programs work, most of the time...) but begrudgingly helped me set up an apartment, insurance, etc. This would be my first time living out of state. I was terrified and excited.

you know, what did they do, throughout your formative years to help you nourish and independent, self-assured confident mind-set? Are you an only child?

 

I was sick of riding the fence to keep the peace, both politically and spiritually.

Can't be done.

You know that now, right...?

 

 

My parents are disappointed. I feel like I've failed them in every way possible. To make matters worse, I've gotten myself into a bit of financial trouble. I'd been working towards fixing it but when a paycheck got stalled due to paperwork I had no savings to back me up and I had no choice but to call them and ask for help.

THAT'S WHAT PARENTS DO!!!! They provide a safe, anchored support for their children by being there when they're needed, that's one of the major provisos of being a parent! You don't own your kids, but you made them, so it's up to the parent to do the best they can for their child!!

 

Disappointed be damned - I'm kinda disappointed in them myself! They educate us to put them on a pedestal, then when we realise they're just as human, and flawed as anyone - and everyone else - it dents our perception!

 

I feel completely worthless. I'm without a home. My faith is in a shambles. There are many reasons for this- not least of all the way I've seen my family treat someone I love.

this is a very mature and extremely painful thing to admit, isn't it?

Because what you're saying is the the reality of what I said above - is sinking in.

and what you have to do, is to stop blaming yourself for factors outside your control.

The flaws within your parents are not your problems to fix, because as advanced and long-time adults, they're responsible for that, not you.

It's ok to disagree with them, and if you find their rationale flawed, then maybe - guess what? - that's exactly what it is.

 

I'm a scientist. I have begun to look at literature surrounding homosexuality- all signs point to a biological basis.

Please don't tell me this is a shock and revelation to you?

homosexuality is the way you're born and mind-wired, it's not an abomination or defect!! Consider this comment, made by someone close to me:

 

Stranger Person A: When did you realise you were homosexual?

close to me person B: When did you realise you were heterosexual?

Answer? It is what it is, because that's the way it is.

 

 

My graduate adviser has been with his partner for 13 years. They're struggling in vain to adopt a child. When an adoption went through a few months ago, they waited and planned and prayed for that child only to have it stillborn. Do you know my mother's response to that? God doesn't want gays to have kids.

Ugh. I feel for you, but obviously, this kind of blinkered thinking has disappointed you terribly....

 

Two men and that baby's birth mother will be in pain for the rest of their lives, all because God saw fit to kill a baby instead of give it to a loving, committed couple. I don't know about most of you, but that line of thinking just doesn't sit with me. How can I attend a church knowing that most of the folks in the pews agree with my mom- that Homosexuality is punishable by God by killing babies, and that I have no business dating a wonderful, decent, successful man that doesn't really know what he believes?

answer?

You can't.

you have to establish within your own mind, just how far you believe you can walk with your faith, but while - as it has been said - some scientists 'believe in god or a higher power' - many more, some perhaps even coming form a background similar to yours - have found that their analytical exploratory calling has made them view things differently, and in a far more rational discriminating and balanced way.

And some things in religious faith, just don't stack up.

And that's OK.

 

I did fail financially. This is the first time I've been on my own. I overextended myself right away, never made a budget, and have been struggling to dig out ever since. This is proving them right, somehow, about graduate school being a sham. Or proving to them that I'm not capable of handling adult things.

this is proving that they didn't give you adequate guidance in budgeting, how to save money and were over-protective which is great in one way, but ultimately crippling and inhibiting in another.

it's not your fault if you didn't know what to do! I bet you're wiser now!!

This does not prove them right, it proves that in one area of your upbringing, they failed to prepare you adequately for when you had to spread your wings!

 

Politics are another story. I'm so morally torn I don't think I can bring myself to vote in the upcoming presidential election. I feel sick just thinking about having to make a decision that I know I'll feel guilty for, no matter who I choose.

Then don't.

i haven't voted for years, and until one party comes along, in whom I feel I can place my unending trust in, then I won't.

I have political views. it's just that they're spread over a broad spectrum, and i will not vote on part of a manifesto. Until they prove to me, I can trust them, they don't deserve my vote.

 

I have always been close to my family. But a string of decisions seem to have torn my family to shreds. I feel guilty. I feel terrible. But I can't go back because I'm happy. But I'm sick knowing that my family will never love me like they used to.

Stop, darling, this is drama.

 

If their love is conditional and based on you doing things they approve of, only, then it's just not the right kind of love.

Love is either love, or it isn't. love that isn't love, is controlling and manipulative, and doesn't deserve the title. If your family loves you, they always did and always will. But how they choose to show, demonstrate or manifest that love is up to them. Remember 1 Corinthians 13. That's what love is, and how it is transmitted. as your family, they have a duty to love you in the best way for you, not the best way for them.

 

I know where I have to go and what I have to do and who I'm supposed to be, but no one saw it coming. To them, they've lost a daughter.

this is seriously their problem.

Look at what you're saying:

"because you didn't live life in their expectations, the way they wanted and because you made decisions for your life in the way you wanted, they can no longer call you their daughter."

Seriously, what?? is that really how it's working?

And if it is, do you think they're justified?

 

 

I just want to let go of them and do what I have to do, love who I love, and live my life in peace. But I'll never be happy until they're happy. My mother is manipulative and angry and bitter. I never feel more screwed up than when I get off the phone with her. So I don't call. And then get berated for not calling.

Their happiness is not dependent on you! It is not your job to make them happy, or to keep them happy by doing things they want! they have doubtless made many decisions in their lives which perhaps in hindsight they should not have made. everyone screws up. Unfortunately, they probably claim that it was God's will... well, that just abdicates responsibility and puts it all off their shoulder, and onto something else.

you are not that 'something else' and it's not your job to live your life in such a way as to please them!

and by the way:

I went 25 years without talking to my parents.... look, i'm still upright, breathing and walking. And talking to my mother.

 

 

I don't know how much longer I can take this separation. I can't take this leading a double life. I am one person to my parents- the person I have to be around them is not the person everyone else sees.

"This above all:

To thine own self be True,

And it must follow, as the night the Day,

That you canst not be false to any man."

 

You cannot sustain a lie.

you cannot lead a double life.

It's exhausting, debilitating and stressful.

you need to shed what is untrue and baggage, and emerge as a person true to herself, no matter what.

You will respect yourself far more, if you drop the guilt, because that is not your weight to have to bear.

be honest with yourself.

Live by what you feel you must live by.

Don't live life for others, because ultimately, believe it or not, they won't thank you - they'll just keep asking for more.

 

It's time to draw a line in the sand.

[turnera]

Have you ever read up on stages of life? It would help you, to understand that you're doing what you need to do. It's a stage. It's the point in your life where you are mentally developed enough to stop looking to your parents for your belief system and truths, and start developing on your own. Happens to all of us.

 

You're learning what matters to you. And, aside from having your family on your side, everything you describe sounds like a wonderful, smart, ethical, moral, good young woman. Embrace that.

 

And get ready for the fights. They will come; it's part of growing up, if you have parents who are the type who don't WANT you to spread your wings. Everything they did 'for' your rings true of such parents. They will love you...as long as you become their mirror image and keep feeding their needs.

 

It's your parents who are missing the final step - WANTING your child to figure out her own mind and find her own happiness. Understand that, and realize it doesn't mean they don't love you; it just means they aren't quite as enlightened as you'd like.

 

And here is where you get to start practicing being a grown up.

 

The age-old conversation, probably has been going on for about 20,000 years:

"Mom, dad, I understand why you want what you want for me. But I'm not you. And as much as I love you, I have to be who I am. I hope you'll understand that and support me. But if you won't, I'll understand. But this is what I have to do."

[pink_sugar]

Don't feel so bad. I am still an undergrad with debt because I was completely on my own 100% after high school. It really bothers me at times, but I have to remind myself I did what I had to do and there's no going back. When I have a good paying job I can pay my debts off. Try not to focus so much on what your parents want or think. This is YOUR life. Do what makes YOU happy.

[ChemistQueen]

I've read the posts- it feels really good to get things off my chest. I was in a very dark place when I penned that the other night. All of the points offered are great, lots of things I've thought about before.

 

I know that I'm going to do just exactly as I want. I'm not leaving graduate school without my PhD, I'm not leaving my man for anything in the world, I'm going to think just exactly what I want to about the Church, and I'm going to raise my future kids with the kind of "free-spirit" ideals I've always had but have beer been able to act on. (Within reason, of course. ). What I need to do is to find out how to do this without feeling guilty.

 

I'm the oldest child of three, so maybe that's why I'm hard on myself about taking my own path in life. I followed the trajectory I was set on by my upbringing for quite some time. It feels weird leaving it.

 

Where do I go too far and start becoming selfish in y actuons?I know that I'm hurting people that I care about very deeply by making the decisions that I'm making. But it isn't like I'm taking up drug dealing or prostitution. The only thing I'm leaving behind is religion in the sense that my family sees it. I can pretend around them. But I feel like I need to take a break from it for awhile, for the sake of my sanity.

 

There's just enough Catholic left in me to fear that I've fallen into the pit or self-serving relativism. From the outside though, everything about life feels so much clearer....

[TaraMaiden]

As an ex-Catholic, I can sympathise with your feelings of guilt.

Let me give you the legend on a t-shirt I bought some years ago, which is both amusing, but holds more than a grain of truth...

 

"Catholicism:If schyitt happens, I deserve it".

 

the guilt stick is very much alive and whacking in RC streams of thought. Punishment and load-bearing is a two-wheeled cart we're shackled to from an early age.

The reason you feel guilty is not because what you are doing is wrong, but it's been ingrained into you, by external conditioning, to believe that it's wrong.

Doing this will mean putting your own wishes and desires first, and we're taught from a very early age, that putting ourselves first is both selfish and thoughtless.

 

Christ endured the ultimate self-sacrifice, that we might be saved from our sins, so doing something that will ultimately lead to out own benefit, to the seeming detriment of the desires of others is, we are repeatedly told, not the right thing to do.

 

You have to observe this thought process and weigh up the logic.

Come on; you have a reasoning, analytical, cognitive mind, so look at the rationale behind guilt.

Take the element of Guilt, and break it down; analyse it, examine its source, and decide whether the compound is nutritive or noxious.

Guilt is nasty.

Remorse is acceptable.

By all means, have remorse for the fact that people will not be completely accepting of your decision; but don't feel guilty.

 

Remorse is character-building and virtuous; Guilt is inhibiting and unnecessary....

[turnera]

You can always find a different religion. My mom always recommended Unitarian Universalists, who supposedly do a lot of 'thinking' about what God means and all. My husband grew up a Catholic until his family moved to a place where they couldn't get to one (no car), but there was a Lutheran church nearby (the 'lazy Catholics'); he's been a Lutheran ever since. Tiny bit of the rituals, NO guilt, and very open minded (the ELCA group, maybe not the Missouri Synod).