Husband's intimacy with sister-in-law a devastating blow

[dreamingoftigers]

Sounds like you just want that divorce and you have a neat little package to send it off in....except for your brother.

 

I somewhat thought at the beginning the you didn't seem all that interested in him anymore.

 

Divorce him, go live a free and happy life. Neither one of you really seem to want this anymore and he's more embarrassed than sorry.

 

It may hurt but it sounds like you would be much happier.

 

Rarely are spouses able to reflect in what type of person their spouse really is so soon after d-day. He must not have shattered that many illusions for you.

[Owl]

Merr...what is it that you want to come out of all of this?

 

I don't think I know at this point.

 

If it's divorce...there's not really much to discuss at this point.

 

File.

 

If it's reconciliation...but you're not sure you want to invest in doing so...you're not going to get it. Reconciliation is hard, hard work, for several years at least.

 

If you're not up for that...see above...

 

File.

 

If you want to try to reconcile...and are willing to do what you need to do...I can see where LS can help you somewhat with that.

 

But...you need to decide specifically what YOUR GOAL is...and then you need to clearly communicate that to us so that we can help you get there.

 

It all starts and ends with that.

[Steen719]

For what it is worth, I have survived my situation pretty much on my own. The reality is that friends and family simply don't get it. And they really don't know what to say. Most of it amounts to get over it, be thankful for your kids, it'll be better with time and so forth. Most of their advice is simply crap. Mine would have been, too, until I earned my virtual Infidelity PhD. They have their own drama to deal with, too, and so most of them get burnt out pretty quickly. I have learned to use my head most of the time and to use counseling to deal with the emotional side. You can do this. You're obviously intelligent and you'll surive this trauma.

 

As for Owl's suggestion, I probably went too far in protecting my W from consequences. Not suffering them leads to no change. That said, once you tell, you can't untell it. Choose wisely.

 

My guess is that this might be true of a lot of people. However, I did say that was one of my blessings and it always has been. The other thing is, sadly, many friends and family, both female and male, have been through it, so they were adept at empathy. I also have many friends that I have had since I was 11 y/o. It is quite unusual how close we have remained, but this is the honest to God truth. Each one told me every time we talked to call any time and it did not matter if I said the same thing each time. So, I guess my circumstances were unusual, but I still think one real friend is worth their weight in gold. I am just lucky that I have more than one. (Also, I spent a pretty good bit of time helping them in one way or another, even XH's family, who still call some).

 

Each person faces betrayal a different way. I was bereft that my XH could lie to me after I felt that I had sacrificed so much for him and his health and happiness. Actually, I did not just feel that I had sacrificed; I had. The betrayal was bad enough, that was salt. I think once you make up your mind what will be your path, it will be easier to walk it. You have time to decide.

,

[Furious]

It's been less than 24 hours since you found out that indeed it was a physical affair as well as an emotional affair.

 

You are getting great advice here, and there is no need to act on any of it immediately without giving yourself a little time to absorb it and decide what your next steps will be.

 

Think carefully about what it is "YOU" want.

 

I have a feeling you know the answer, and it will become clearer as the days go by.

[merrmeade]

It's not like I knew. I didn't. I really thought that H and I could work things out in the time that we had because I believed he was being forthcoming. His shame is because he wants to be a decent person.

 

I sound like I wanted a divorce, but frankly I did not know it or decide it consciously and have a very hard time even saying the word. I have had resentful thoughts of him for years, yes. I have thought of him as a narcissist, yes. But that doesn't mean that I had the guts to do anything about it. I am a weak person and have simply chosen to avoid the issue. I have kept my thoughts to myself and just sort of ran away. I am not such a noble character either.

 

It's okay. I just spoke with my brother's care manager. She is a psychiatric social worker and has counseled me before. She has agreed to see me through this. I have known her for years as I found her to be my father's care mgr. first.

 

I decided while talking with her that the weekend should go ahead because I'd set it up before the big D last night BUT I will not necessarily participate. I can slip away with the excuse of spending time with my brother and just go to town. It feels doable.

 

I do not have my mind made up about anything. The divorce talk is just sort of happening. I know I sound like I'm flip-flopping. I am. I have no f---- idea what I'm doing but taking it a few days at a time works. I cannot say what I will do next week or how I want this to pan out.

 

I will say that my daughter already got it out of me on the phone and thank goodness. She is clear and already saw her father for what he is. It's enough for me and she is all right. She knew.

 

I don't have anything to defend or explain.

[merrmeade]

It's been less than 24 hours since you found out that indeed it was a physical affair as well as an emotional affair.

 

You are getting great advice here, and there is no need to act on any of it immediately without giving yourself a little time to absorb it and decide what your next steps will be.

 

Think carefully about what it is "YOU" want.

 

I have a feeling you know the answer, and it will become clearer as the days go by.

 

Your messages of balance and deliberation have stood out for me along the way. That you are gentle and let the other person find his/her way and pace is really good and so helpful. Thank you.

[merrmeade]

If you want to try to reconcile...and are willing to do what you need to do...I can see where LS can help you somewhat with that.

 

LS means "Leaving Spouse"? Thanks (and, no, I have no idea what I want at the moment. Maybe later.)

[Owl]

LS=Loveshack...the collective of posters offering advice and support.

 

If we don't know what your goal is...it makes it much more difficult to offer you advice and support.

 

It's the first step YOU need to take...figure out for yourself where you want this to go.

 

Divorce, reconciliation...they're opposite directions.

 

Can't do both simultaneously.

 

Pick one...then we can help steer you in the right direction.

[dreamingoftigers]

 

I do not have my mind made up about anything. The divorce talk is just sort of happening. I know I sound like I'm flip-flopping. I am. I have no f---- idea what I'm doing but taking it a few days at a time works. I cannot say what I will do next week or how I want this to pan out.

 

I will say that my daughter already got it out of me on the phone and thank goodness. She is clear and already saw her father for what he is. It's enough for me and she is all right. She knew.

 

I don't have anything to defend or explain.

 

Sounds like me and mom used to be before she threw me under the bus for my narcissistic Dad.

 

I hope you don't try to encourage her to mend her relationship with her father or not be upset with the stupid twat.

 

Don't interfere, seriously. It'll cause serious resent between you and her.

 

If she's known he's a narcissist, she already has her own opinion of him and doesn't need to be pushed or pulled or "made to feel better."

 

Do not defend or condemn the son of a bitch to her.

 

My mother did all of that and she really needed to back the **** off.

[merrmeade]

Divorce, reconciliation...they're opposite directions.

 

Can't do both simultaneously.

 

Pick one...then we can help steer you in the right direction.

 

Eeny, meeny, miny, moe....

 

Pick one. Good idea. I'll let you know....

[dreamingoftigers]

You don't have to pick until after supper, you've got a few hours.

[merrmeade]

Sounds like me and mom used to be before she threw me under the bus for my narcissistic Dad.

 

I hope you don't try to encourage her to mend her relationship with her father or not be upset with the stupid twat.

 

Don't interfere, seriously. It'll cause serious resent between you and her.

 

If she's known he's a narcissist, she already has her own opinion of him and doesn't need to be pushed or pulled or "made to feel better."

 

Do not defend or condemn the son of a bitch to her.

 

My mother did all of that and she really needed to back the **** off.

 

 

Yes, I'm trying to do right by her. She is so smart in every way though; it's hard to protect from her own perceptiveness and ability to see exactly who everyone is and what's going on. So I don't. She's good, better than I am and will tell me what she does or doesn't want me to do or say.

[merrmeade]

You don't have to pick until after supper, you've got a few hours.

 

Whew! That's a relief! But really. I'll let you know though it might just take a a few more hours if that's all right.

[Owl]

Eeny, meeny, miny, moe....

 

Pick one. Good idea. I'll let you know....

 

I'm not being sarcastic, nor rude, nor any of those things.

 

I'm offering you advice.

 

I'll nip off now...nothing left to offer from my viewpoint.

[merrmeade]

I'm not being sarcastic, nor rude, nor any of those things.

 

I'm offering you advice.

 

I'll nip off now...nothing left to offer from my viewpoint.

 

It's okay. I am able to say some things for the first time out loud here that I've thought for a long time. I don't mean to waste people's time. I sound more together than I am.

[eeyore1981]

It's okay. I am able to say some things for the first time out loud here that I've thought for a long time. I don't mean to waste people's time. I sound more together than I am.

 

I understand. Some people think that this is such an easy decision, no factors to be weighed, etc. etc.

 

Myself, I don't think most people have this happen to them and decide they enjoy it and want more of it. I think that they just have more things to consider other than just "got screwed around on, I'm out of here."

[merrmeade]

I was also joking in other words. This is weird.

[turnera]

As my daughter says, I left him in a completely vulnerable situation with a woman sharing the house a couple of weekends a month who had essentially lost her husband as a mate and companion.

Now, you have valid reason to blame yourself for being absent so much. I daresay you enjoyed being on your own and taking charge of your life and not having to deal with his issues while traveling. BTDT.

 

That said, you've mentioned your daughter a few times, and I have a feeling that you sense that she is her father's girl; i.e., she will choose HIM if you dare stand up for your rights. Do some research on it. Here's a tiny bit I found, there are many more:

 

Narcissistic parents give rise to either narcissistic or codependent offspring because [of] their inability to engage emotionally with their children's needs.

 

Children of a difficult, more stubborn temperament defend against being supportive of others in the house. They observe how the selfish parents get his needs met by others. They learn how manipulation and using guilt gets the parent what he or she wants. They develop a false self and use aggression and intimidation to get their way. These children grow up to be Narcissistic themselves.

 

The sensitive, guilt-ridden children in the family learn to meet the parent’s needs for gratification and try to get love by accommodating the whims and wishes of the parent. The child’s normal feelings are ignored, denied and eventually repressed in attempts to gain the parent’s “love.” Guilt and shame keep the child locked into this developmental arrest. Their aggressive impulses become split off and are not integrated with normal development. These children grow up learning to give too much and develop a false self of becoming co-dependent in their relationships.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_parents

 

It sounds to me like she is craving his love. If that's true, you may want to be careful if it comes to any sort of ultimatum; she may feel compelled to choose him.

Edited July 5, 2012 by turnera

[BetrayedH]

Eeny, meeny, miny, moe....

 

Pick one. Good idea. I'll let you know....

 

Ok, that was funny.

[merrmeade]

Now, you have valid reason to blame yourself for being absent so much. I daresay you enjoyed being on your own and taking charge of your life and not having to deal with his issues while traveling. BTDT.

 

That said, you've mentioned your daughter a few times, and I have a feeling that you sense that she is her father's girl; i.e., she will choose HIM if you dare stand up for your rights. Do some research on it. Here's a tiny bit I found, there are many more:

 

Narcissistic parents give rise to either narcissistic or codependent offspring because [of] their inability to engage emotionally with their children's needs.

 

Children of a difficult, more stubborn temperament defend against being supportive of others in the house. They observe how the selfish parents get his needs met by others. They learn how manipulation and using guilt gets the parent what he or she wants. They develop a false self and use aggression and intimidation to get their way. These children grow up to be Narcissistic themselves.

 

The sensitive, guilt-ridden children in the family learn to meet the parent’s needs for gratification and try to get love by accommodating the whims and wishes of the parent. The child’s normal feelings are ignored, denied and eventually repressed in attempts to gain the parent’s “love.” Guilt and shame keep the child locked into this developmental arrest. Their aggressive impulses become split off and are not integrated with normal development. These children grow up learning to give too much and develop a false self of becoming co-dependent in their relationships.[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_parents#cite_note-ao-12][/url]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_parents

 

It sounds to me like she is craving his love.

 

Well, this is interesting and telling but not about my daughter. About my sons. THey are definitely worried about accommodating his whims and wishes. They will blame me unless they have all the information. I will have to work on how to inform them. This article is actually quite on-target for them. Thanks.

 

My concern for my daughter is the opposite. She herself has been telling me he's a DB for years and gives well-founded reasons for it. She has her own reasons to resent him. She actually says she doesn't understand why I would want a future with him at all. I was worried about how the three of us would move together with this knowledge in the house but will let her decide how and when to let him know that she knows. She is the most together person that I know actually.

[turnera]

Ah. So it sounds like she's the kind who went the opposite direction. The NON-codependent. BTDT.

[merrmeade]

Ah. So it sounds like she's the kind who went the opposite direction. The NON-codependent. BTDT.

 

Yep. She is truly awesome. My concern comes from that. She tends to be strong, clear and understanding about most things. I wanted to protect her from trying to fill in the vacuum and reassure her that we are coping appropriately. Her clarity and support make a huge difference for me, of course. I will try not to lean on her. We'll muddle through.

[merrmeade]

Tonight I asked if we were going to do marriage counseling. He said, "Whatever you want." I said, "Otherwise, we're done here because your remorse and shame are just about your being embarrassed. I don't see that I'm in there at all." No response. I added, "So if there's any hope of reconciliation for us in the time we have that's what we have to do." He just repeated that he'd said he would do whatever I wanted. Then I said, "Will you read that book?" (the book that BetrayedH recommended) He answered that he would. I finished with, "Then we'll take it from there."

 

And that's where I left it. We try counseling and he reads the book. Right now I don't feel like saying a damn thing to him except what we need to communicate for practical matters. Otherwise, I'm finished. I don't feel like dealing with the stupid look of angry defeat and inability to talk about it. We'll see what the MC can do.

 

Fair?

[Furious]

Tonight I asked if we were going to do marriage counseling. He said, "Whatever you want." I said, "Otherwise, we're done here because your remorse and shame are just about your being embarrassed. I don't see that I'm in there at all." No response. I added, "So if there's any hope of reconciliation for us in the time we have that's what we have to do." He just repeated that he'd said he would do whatever I wanted. Then I said, "Will you read that book?" (the book that BetrayedH recommended) He answered that he would. I finished with, "Then we'll take it from there."

 

And that's where I left it. We try counseling and he reads the book. Right now I don't feel like saying a damn thing to him except what we need to

communicate for practical matters. Otherwise, I'm finished. I don't feel like dealing with the stupid look of angry defeat and inability to talk about it. We'll see what the MC can do.

 

Fair?

 

 

A warning to you, a truly remorseful spouse will be the one who urges the betrayed spouse to go to marriage counseling.

 

His response to you "whatever you want" , came across to me as a sulky child whose mother insists he finish eating the peas on his plate because there are starving children in India.

 

Marriage counseling won't work if he is convinced he is the wretched victim of your wrath and has to be dragged there by you.

 

I suggest you pack his suitcase and show him the door, and mean it.

 

In most cases the WS will not step up to the plate unless the harsh reality of being booted from the family home smacks some sense into them.

 

Then it is up to him to as to whether he will fight for you and make the commitment to reconcile.

 

The effort must come from him, or you are doomed.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Furious

[turnera]

Well, if you get him to counseling, that's something. That's good. I suggest, however, that you look into individual counseling for him. It sounds like he has toxic shame and you DON'T get rid of that easily.