Husband's intimacy with sister-in-law a devastating blow

[Owl]

Sounds to me like you've picked a goal...divorce.

 

Excellent!

 

Having a goal means you can move forward.

 

First thought...there's a divorce forum here on loveshack that can help steer you the right way for sure. I'd suggest creating a thread there asking the same kind of questions you're posting here.

 

Second thought...do a web search for "free divorce information" on your county, and on your state.

 

Many county courthouses have a "do it yourself" section to their website that can help you figure out the process, and even begin filling out and filing documentation WITHOUT incurring the costs of a lawyer for the things you can do on your own.

 

Find out your state/local laws, figure out what paperwork you need, do what you can, and then engage a lawyer as needed.

 

Start working out a seperation plan as well. As someone else mentioned...start seperating your finances. Figure out who is gonna move out, and start looking at where you're going to live, what you're gonna take, etc...

 

Start sorting out a joint parenting plan if needed.

 

Once you know HOW divorce works in your state...that will help you figure out the timelines.

 

Best of luck to you.

[turnera]

To me, it would make sense for you to do this:

 

Decide you are going to divorce him. You can always change your mind later, but you have to get the ball rolling, you know?

 

Get your affairs in order (legal, etc.) as though you are divorcing him.

 

Set up weekly MC sessions so you two can get to the root of your problems. I know you know that you aren't completely blameless in your marriage; none of us is. Even if you still divorce, you'll learn a LOT about what a marriage should look like and you'll be in a better place for any future relationships.

 

Find a good IC for yourself (psychologist, preferably) and when you go, ask them to recommend a psychiatrist who will prescribe you temporary antidepressants. I did this when my mom died and I couldn't pull out of the funk - they gave me 3 months' worth, and it worked amazingly well, just to get me going in the morning. And then I stopped them because I didn't need them any more. What you are describing is depression.

 

If he sees you doing this he will know previous tactics will no longer work and if he wants to keep you he WILL have to buckle down and turn over a new leaf. And, if he proves unwilling to do that, well you're already on the road to the divorce anyway.

[merrmeade]

To me, it would make sense for you to do this:

 

Decide you are going to divorce him. You can always change your mind later, but you have to get the ball rolling, you know?

 

Get your affairs in order (legal, etc.) as though you are divorcing him.

 

Set up weekly MC sessions so you two can get to the root of your problems. I know you know that you aren't completely blameless in your marriage; none of us is. Even if you still divorce, you'll learn a LOT about what a marriage should look like and you'll be in a better place for any future relationships.

 

Find a good IC for yourself (psychologist, preferably) and when you go, ask them to recommend a psychiatrist who will prescribe you temporary antidepressants. I did this when my mom died and I couldn't pull out of the funk - they gave me 3 months' worth, and it worked amazingly well, just to get me going in the morning. And then I stopped them because I didn't need them any more. What you are describing is depression.

 

If he sees you doing this he will know previous tactics will no longer work and if he wants to keep you he WILL have to buckle down and turn over a new leaf. And, if he proves unwilling to do that, well you're already on the road to the divorce anyway.

 

I have to wait until the end of July (six months residency in US) but have the forms. Yes, good idea to start a thread with questions on the other forum. Thank you.

[merrmeade]

Sounds to me like you've picked a goal...divorce.

 

Excellent!

 

Having a goal means you can move forward.

 

First thought...there's a divorce forum here on loveshack that can help steer you the right way for sure. I'd suggest creating a thread there asking the same kind of questions you're posting here.

 

Second thought...do a web search for "free divorce information" on your county, and on your state.

 

Many county courthouses have a "do it yourself" section to their website that can help you figure out the process, and even begin filling out and filing documentation WITHOUT incurring the costs of a lawyer for the things you can do on your own.

 

Find out your state/local laws, figure out what paperwork you need, do what you can, and then engage a lawyer as needed.

 

Start working out a seperation plan as well. As someone else mentioned...start seperating your finances. Figure out who is gonna move out, and start looking at where you're going to live, what you're gonna take, etc...

 

Start sorting out a joint parenting plan if needed.

 

Once you know HOW divorce works in your state...that will help you figure out the timelines.

 

Best of luck to you.

 

Why is a "goal" so important? And how - WHY - would anyone need to answer to the need for a goal when working through the stages - albeit, initial and still very reactive, only WEEKS old - of discovery. That is a very odd - jarring - term to me for something as dynamic, subjective and new as an affair discovery at five weeks. Granted, many of you have seen a lot and you seem to indicate that you just "know" where this should end up. But I don't think anyone can perfectly render the issues, character or needs of the people involved. I mean, you can think you see patterns, but you don't really know from an online forum what the people really want and who they are. You know one person's experience at at time when s/he is the least objective and most driven by the needs to vent and rant his/her own frustrations.

 

So what is this push to provide and plan for a 'goal' at this point in my unenviable drama? Who can decide with the limited information provided here that someone else can 'move forward' because s/he has created a 'goal' or plan of action?

 

Is it that you should only post if you are ready to act on whatever you're told? It felt harsh the first time and comes across the same, the second time, this 'pick a goal' attitude toward dealing with affair fall-out only a month after D-day. I'm sorry if these are strong words, but I found myself at first feeling like a good student who had finally listened to the teacher expressing approval for the right answer and then indignant that I should feel compelled to commit to such a huge life decision on that basis. People in this situation at this point are enormously vulnerable and easily influenced. Advice should be tempered.

Edited July 10, 2012 by merrmeade

[merrmeade]

To me, it would make sense for you to do this:

 

Decide you are going to divorce him. You can always change your mind later, but you have to get the ball rolling, you know?

 

Get your affairs in order (legal, etc.) as though you are divorcing him.

 

Set up weekly MC sessions so you two can get to the root of your problems. I know you know that you aren't completely blameless in your marriage; none of us is. Even if you still divorce, you'll learn a LOT about what a marriage should look like and you'll be in a better place for any future relationships.

 

Find a good IC for yourself (psychologist, preferably) and when you go, ask them to recommend a psychiatrist who will prescribe you temporary antidepressants. I did this when my mom died and I couldn't pull out of the funk - they gave me 3 months' worth, and it worked amazingly well, just to get me going in the morning. And then I stopped them because I didn't need them any more. What you are describing is depression.

 

If he sees you doing this he will know previous tactics will no longer work and if he wants to keep you he WILL have to buckle down and turn over a new leaf. And, if he proves unwilling to do that, well you're already on the road to the divorce anyway.

 

This approach is much more comfortable to consider. It is non-committal and merely pro-active. I did get the information and so am getting prepared. In the meantime, we have not even seen a marriage counselor or started IC ourselves. This is a marriage of many, many years with - granted - lots of troubling issues, but there is reason to give it a chance. He is reading the book and has not done anything to contact her or been contacted by her. I have access to email and phone records, voice and data, so I am sure. For now, we need to figure out what we can and want to do for us, if anything. Yes, I flop back and forth, but it's still the same issues and only we, maybe with a therapist's help, can figure this out. You might even say that I am doing what he did by confiding all my issues with people on LS, rather than with him!

Edited July 10, 2012 by merrmeade

[BetrayedH]

Why is a "goal" so important? And how - WHY - would anyone need to answer to the need for a goal when working through the stages - albeit, initial and still very reactive, only WEEKS old - of discovery. That is a very odd - jarring - term to me for something as dynamic, subjective and new as an affair discovery at five weeks. Granted, many of you have seen a lot and you seem to indicate that you just "know" where this should end up. But I don't think anyone can perfectly render the issues, character or needs of the people involved. I mean, you can think you see patterns, but you don't really know from an online forum what the people really want and who they are. You know one person's experience at at time when s/he is the least objective and most driven by the needs to vent and rant his/her own frustrations.

 

So what is this push to provide and plan for a 'goal' at this point in my unenviable drama? Who can decide with the limited information provided here that someone else can 'move forward' because s/he has created a 'goal' or plan of action?

 

Is it that you should only post if you are ready to act on whatever you're told? It felt harsh the first time and comes across the same, the second time, this 'pick a goal' attitude toward dealing with affair fall-out only a month after D-day. I'm sorry if these are strong words, but I found myself at first feeling like a good student who had finally listened to the teacher expressing approval for the right answer and then indignant that I should feel compelled to commit to such a huge life decision on that basis. People in this situation at this point are enormously vulnerable and easily influenced. Advice should be tempered.

 

Intended gently, try not to be too frustrated with Owl. He's a long time poster and typically one of the best. From his perspective it is simply difficult to provide much counsel until the original poster makes their own choice about whether they want to divorce or reconcile. Owl's experience (and thus his best advice) is centered around successful reconciliation. I can feel his hesitation in posting to so many people though because he knows that to reconcile, it takes an enormously dedicated betrayed spouse to endure what must be endured. He doesn't want to push you to make that decision and wants you to get there on your own (or to choose divorce). I can also say from some experience being here that many people become stuck and never really decide what to do (which ends up being a decision on its own and one that can leave a person in a terrible limbo, having never really reconciled or divorced). If you choose to R, you would hear a lot of very wise and disciplined counsel on what to do. In the meantime, he is simply waiting for you to decide and doesn't want to overtly influence you.

 

Ironically, the biggest lesson that I learned from Owl is that this is a marathon, not a sprint (although he was more specifically speaking to me about reconciliation, which I chose very [too] quickly). My gut leans more towards the concept that you can take as much damn time as you want to decide whih direction to go. Your spouse will most certainly want you to decide quickly and to, in fact, get over it as soon as humanly possible. He will want to "put it behind us" and will not understand "how talking about it anymore will do anything but keep us stuck in the past when we should be looking forward." Screw that and screw him. You can take a few years to decide if you want.

 

All that said, I am really starting to be of the belief that a wayward almost never "gets it" until they directly look divorce straight in the damn face. I don't think anything short of that is effective. Even (especially) the ones that successfully reconciled all seem to have been right to the edge of it and that's what woke up the stupid wayward about what exactly they're about to lose. I think you are wise to put the serious potential for D front and center.

 

Oh, and cut yourself a break about posting here. You need to do whatever it takes to heal right now. Sadly, he is no longer your closest confidante. He screwed that up. Perhaps in time he can earn that spot back. If/when you decide to R, then you will need to work on restoring that bond.

[Owl]

Merrmeade...I started with several responses to your post...and after several false starts I decided to take the simplest approach.

 

I'll bow out and let others provide you advice/support.

 

I don't think that my "style" of posting/advice/support is what you want. Nothing wrong with that...and I wish you the best possible outcome of your situation for you...whatever that may be.

[BetrayedH]

Merrmeade...I started with several responses to your post...and after several false starts I decided to take the simplest approach.

 

I'll bow out and let others provide you advice/support.

 

I don't think that my "style" of posting/advice/support is what you want. Nothing wrong with that...and I wish you the best possible outcome of your situation for you...whatever that may be.

 

I find this unfortunate.

[stillafool]

Why is a "goal" so important? And how - WHY - would anyone need to answer to the need for a goal when working through the stages - albeit, initial and still very reactive, only WEEKS old - of discovery. That is a very odd - jarring - term to me for something as dynamic, subjective and new as an affair discovery at five weeks. Granted, many of you have seen a lot and you seem to indicate that you just "know" where this should end up. But I don't think anyone can perfectly render the issues, character or needs of the people involved. I mean, you can think you see patterns, but you don't really know from an online forum what the people really want and who they are. You know one person's experience at at time when s/he is the least objective and most driven by the needs to vent and rant his/her own frustrations.

 

So what is this push to provide and plan for a 'goal' at this point in my unenviable drama? Who can decide with the limited information provided here that someone else can 'move forward' because s/he has created a 'goal' or plan of action?

 

Is it that you should only post if you are ready to act on whatever you're told? It felt harsh the first time and comes across the same, the second time, this 'pick a goal' attitude toward dealing with affair fall-out only a month after D-day. I'm sorry if these are strong words, but I found myself at first feeling like a good student who had finally listened to the teacher expressing approval for the right answer and then indignant that I should feel compelled to commit to such a huge life decision on that basis. People in this situation at this point are enormously vulnerable and easily influenced. Advice should be tempered.

 

I would say the purpose of a goal in your situation would be to give you something to shoot for, (look forward to) instead of marinating in your pain. I don't think I could ever look at my H again after finding out he's been screwing my SIL while my brother is ill?! The sheer amount of disrespect shown to me by both of them would be unforgivable and I wouldn't care how long we had been married; but that's just me. BTW, no one really tempers advice here and that's why people come to LS, for the raw truth.

[eeyore1981]

I would say the purpose of a goal in your situation would be to give you something to shoot for, (look forward to) instead of marinating in your pain. I don't think I could ever look at my H again after finding out he's been screwing my SIL while my brother is ill?! The sheer amount of disrespect shown to me by both of them would be unforgivable and I wouldn't care how long we had been married; but that's just me. BTW, no one really tempers advice here and that's why people come to LS, for the raw truth.

 

I think a lot of people come to LS for support, to hear from people that have been through this and know they aren't alone.

 

In my case, when I first started posting here, a lot of times I ended up feeling worse than better. Some people let me know in so many words how stupid they thought I was for not just dropping everything and leaving.

 

It seems to me there are a lot of variables that aren't taken into consideration. One of the things preached here a lot is when you leave, have limited to no contact with your spouse. We didn't have separate jobs at separate places, we own a business and both work there together eight hours a day, so how was I supposed to have NC or LC? Quit my job? Destroy my company and put other people out of a job?

 

Then there's the children situation.

 

I'm not trying to threadjack, just trying to point out that in most cases it's not as simple as walking off into the sunset and living happily ever after. In most cases the BS is completely blindsided and has no idea what to do next. I know personally I fluctuated for at least a month or better between trying to figure out what happened and being in denial. I remember trying for several months to break into hubby's email. It never even occcurred to me to demand the email be opened right then and there. I know better now, but it's not like I had training beforehand of what to do when you find out your spouse is a cheater.

[turnera]

Why is a "goal" so important?

A goal is for YOU and your sanity. It helps you write down - and refer to - what you need in life. Because we all know that outside influences (even in the guise of a spouse) will always find ways to guide us astray from what WE need. It's only when we find a partner who shares the same goals that we can be happy. If they are always picking away at YOUR goals (your morals, your needs, your beliefs), then why are you with them? Just so you are not alone? With a few billion people on earth, odds are good someone else out there shares your same goals.

 

Now, in your specific situation, a goal is important because your heart is going to war with your mind - as it seemed to be doing last night. Knowing your goal - respect or divorce; no cheating or divorce; no abuse or divorce, etc. - helps you GAUGE everything that happens to you against what you need, and decide if what the other person is trying to do will HARM your goals.

[turnera]

This approach is much more comfortable to consider. It is non-committal and merely pro-active. I did get the information and so am getting prepared. In the meantime, we have not even seen a marriage counselor or started IC ourselves. This is a marriage of many, many years with - granted - lots of troubling issues, but there is reason to give it a chance. He is reading the book and has not done anything to contact her or been contacted by her. I have access to email and phone records, voice and data, so I am sure. For now, we need to figure out what we can and want to do for us, if anything. Yes, I flop back and forth, but it's still the same issues and only we, maybe with a therapist's help, can figure this out. You might even say that I am doing what he did by confiding all my issues with people on LS, rather than with him!

Let me point out - if you had NOT been proactive and shown him that you WOULD leave him...he would still be cheating.

[turnera]

All that said, I am really starting to be of the belief that a wayward almost never "gets it" until they directly look divorce straight in the damn face. I don't think anything short of that is effective.

That's what I meant. No one says you HAVE to or even SHOULD divorce. That's a personal decision. However, by not taking a hard stand, you risk him believing that you'll just always be around.

 

We teach others how to respect us.

[turnera]

Did you get some sleep, merr?

[merrmeade]

Wow, I was gone all day. Got new clothes, shoes, hairdo, pedicure. Just got back and saw the maelstrom I created by my wee fit of hysteria. I think I was feeling out of control. Need to take all this in ....

[freestyle]

Wow, I was gone all day. Got new clothes, shoes, hairdo, pedicure. Just got back and saw the maelstrom I created by my wee fit of hysteria. I think I was feeling out of control. Need to take all this in ....

 

 

You're emotionally sunburned right now--(third degree burns, too....)

 

It's to be expected, considering that 2 people close to you essentially set off a nuke in your life.

 

Most of us will be VERY understanding, and certainly don't expect you to be cool, calm, and collected right now.

 

sending you a cyberhug....((((merrmeade))))

[merrmeade]

A goal is for YOU and your sanity. It helps you write down - and refer to - what you need in life. Because we all know that outside influences (even in the guise of a spouse) will always find ways to guide us astray from what WE need. It's only when we find a partner who shares the same goals that we can be happy. If they are always picking away at YOUR goals (your morals, your needs, your beliefs), then why are you with them? Just so you are not alone? With a few billion people on earth, odds are good someone else out there shares your same goals.

 

Now, in your specific situation, a goal is important because your heart is going to war with your mind - as it seemed to be doing last night. Knowing your goal - respect or divorce; no cheating or divorce; no abuse or divorce, etc. - helps you GAUGE everything that happens to you against what you need, and decide if what the other person is trying to do will HARM your goals.

 

Yes, thank you, that's sort of it. My reaction wasn't against anyone. It was simply saying that I can't commit to the giant step with people I've never met. It's so personal. It needs to be someone sitting next to me who has proven understanding and unwavering support and knows me.

 

Right now, it's about how to deal with having been wronged and what the wrongs are.

 

I have been waiting for the therapist I talked to last week to call me back with names. I trust her and have had two phone sessions about this with her already. I don't know if it's a conflict of interest, however, as she is the care manager that I found for my father years ago and she now works as my brother's care manager. She seemed to agree to be available for counseling me, so I'm wondering why she hasn't gotten back with the MC names. There was some bad blood between her, her partner and my H last year, regarding a job he did for them, but don't know details. Just hope she does not decide that there's a conflict of interest for that reason or because of her professional relationship with my brother because she's very good and I trust her.

 

I'll call her tomorrow.

Edited July 11, 2012 by merrmeade

[merrmeade]

Intended gently, try not to be too frustrated with Owl. He's a long time poster and typically one of the best. From his perspective it is simply difficult to provide much counsel until the original poster makes their own choice about whether they want to divorce or reconcile. Owl's experience (and thus his best advice) is centered around successful reconciliation. I can feel his hesitation in posting to so many people though because he knows that to reconcile, it takes an enormously dedicated betrayed spouse to endure what must be endured. He doesn't want to push you to make that decision and wants you to get there on your own (or to choose divorce). I can also say from some experience being here that many people become stuck and never really decide what to do (which ends up being a decision on its own and one that can leave a person in a terrible limbo, having never really reconciled or divorced). If you choose to R, you would hear a lot of very wise and disciplined counsel on what to do. In the meantime, he is simply waiting for you to decide and doesn't want to overtly influence you.

 

Ironically, the biggest lesson that I learned from Owl is that this is a marathon, not a sprint (although he was more specifically speaking to me about reconciliation, which I chose very [too] quickly). My gut leans more towards the concept that you can take as much damn time as you want to decide whih direction to go. Your spouse will most certainly want you to decide quickly and to, in fact, get over it as soon as humanly possible. He will want to "put it behind us" and will not understand "how talking about it anymore will do anything but keep us stuck in the past when we should be looking forward." Screw that and screw him. You can take a few years to decide if you want.

 

All that said, I am really starting to be of the belief that a wayward almost never "gets it" until they directly look divorce straight in the damn face. I don't think anything short of that is effective. Even (especially) the ones that successfully reconciled all seem to have been right to the edge of it and that's what woke up the stupid wayward about what exactly they're about to lose. I think you are wise to put the serious potential for D front and center.

 

Oh, and cut yourself a break about posting here. You need to do whatever it takes to heal right now. Sadly, he is no longer your closest confidante. He screwed that up. Perhaps in time he can earn that spot back. If/when you decide to R, then you will need to work on restoring that bond.

 

This is a most thoughtful and helpful rendering of Owl's efforts to help me and others. I appreciate it and hope that Owl feels validated. Yes, I can see the approach, but it scared me and made me feel pushed before I was ready. In fact, I am slowly considering all this result (divorce), but I can hardly say it much less admit that it's a "goal."

 

I needed Betrayed's explanation to appreciate that Owl's practical advice can provide timely step-by-step help to people who are ready. I think that my tendency to describe my thoughts and feelings and recount events with such detail makes me sound more in control of myself than I am. Because I can say it doesn't mean I have embraced it and am at peace with it. People can be different in the ways that they understand and then decide to act.

 

Owl, I appreciate your explanation - "I started with several responses to your post...and after several false starts I decided to take the simplest approach. I don't think that my "style" of posting/advice/support is what you want." - but must adjure that it was not a matter of what I wanted. I'm sorry if my reaction felt like a personal attack. Probably my reaction had less to do with you or what you said as it did with my own issues. I simply wasn't ready to call my changing position a decision, much less a goal, and your cheering encouragement scared me.

 

The community responses were gentle and helpful, and I think that growth can happen here for all of us. I agree with Betrayed and "find this unfortunate" (that you would no longer contribute to this thread).

 

Though I was not ready for Owl's matter-of-fact but enthusiastic leap to solution and the well-intended, simplified but scary (to me) instructions for ending my marriage, I also don't think we will end up in limbo. I am accumulating way too much rage and need for accountability from H that I think I could let things slide without confrontation. I have realized that this is my #1 need before even considering separation and divorce. This is going to sound a bit immature perhaps, but I want the counseling to facilitate full disclosure on all counts so that I can scream at him with proven, justified rage. I want to get him to admit everything. Why would he do that if he thinks we're just getting a divorce?

 

However, what you all seem to be saying is that divorce is also a message to H, a means to this end of smacking him over the head with the most serious reality check possible. I do not do that naturally - make a move for some other purpose than what the action is - and don't think it would be believable. I guess you're saying that, if there's a possibility that he will surprise me, it may take the reality of divorce to make that happen.

 

[i am waiting on the damn psychologist to give me the names of reputable marriage counselors and don't know why she's dragging her feet.]

Edited July 11, 2012 by merrmeade

[y2k]

I need advice and objectivity. I see when people post here that sometimes just the fact of putting the situation in words makes the issue so much more straightforward. The truth and support in the posts here are fantastic. I know this will be long and will do the best I can to be general wherever possible.

 

You'll get many opinions here. Hope you can find help.

 

I just found out two weeks ago that for a couple of years my husband has been involved with my sister-in-law in an emotional affair that also had a physical component. The fact of sex or almost sex is pretty much immaterial to me given the depth of their emotional involvement and intimacy, frequent contact and the fact that 99.9% of it was concealed from me. All of it has been concealed from my brother who lives in a nursing home, paralyzed. The fact that I loved and trusted them both was a double betrayal that has sent me reeling even though I must also take responsibility for being gone and leaving him alone with her when they are both clearly in need of emotional support. I fully admit that the marriage was not on solid ground.

 

The R started with a weekly phone call begun 5 years ago when H was hospitalized for 6 months with a life-threatening disease. H still does not have regular work and lives on disability. I am gone for months on end on business while H stays in a small house that my parents left my brother. SIL also stays here when she visits her H, my brother, and my H has gone to her house some hours away to do work on her house. So their visits have been frequent.

 

H has had a history of getting women to feel sorry for him and help him. I have been a complete enabler by looking the other way, feeling or expressing discomfort at the obvious admiration these women, even women we both knew, showed him. I have never succeeded in holding him accountable or talking about how this has been a problem for me.

 

In this current situation, I have looked the other way, in part I think, for the convenience of H's being able to stay in this house while I travel. I also wanted to trust them because my SIL is very religious and was trusted by both my parents - even legally. But there have been so many signs -

her emotional outburst when he suggested moving in with his sister in another state,

her insistence that he has been her anchor and the most important help since my B got sick,

her backrubs when he was about to go in for surgery recently and frequent visits in the hospital (a 6-hour drive for her) and

her increasing discomfort and critical assessment of me (I felt) when we were all together (she barely hid it).

Then, I found the text messages. They were flirtatious, suggestive, familiar and VERY frequent. They revealed knowledge and involvement about every aspect of each other's habits and plans. I went into his emails and there it all was. Hundreds and hundreds of emails over a five-year period. I saw the progression of the R from formal to intimate. She wrote constantly to ask whether he was warm, okay or mad at her. She would apologize for getting mad at him, arrange times to phone, refer to things they had done together. She constantly sought his advice on everything - even things that he knows nothing about. When her father died, she sent him an email asking if he was warm and attached the obituary. He would thank her for birthday presents (which I knew nothing about), refer to some particularly 'volatile' time together and that he found himself 'thinking' of her 'often' (this particular email was actually in 2009). Some weeks their calls were many, many more than the once weekly they claimed. I know because she says in one email that 'last week was over the top but to go back to once a week would be too draconian.'

 

When I asked him, I did not tell about the emails (and still have not because I wanted to be able to continue monitoring). I just said I was uncomfortable with their closeness and got the 'I just listen without judging' line. Then, I made a sarcastic remark to her about how often they are in touch to which she reacted indignantly. I called her back and talked for about an hour, asking pointed questions, expressing my discomfort and begging for answers. She became someone I do not know. Throughout, she denied that it was anything more than a friendship and asked if I had any friendships, implying that is why I cannot understand them. She even brought in our mothers, saying hers had men friends and implied that my mother was 'uptight.' She is a lawyer and treated every topic as an argument to be destroyed. She denied and obfuscated throughout. I was practically begging her to be straight and felt terrible for the confrontation. Later that day I hugged her in an attempt at reconciliation.

 

The next day I confronted H. It was the first, most successful encounter like that of our lives. I basically lied and said she had told me more than she had, so that he had no choice. He admitted everything (94% sure), saying that, yes, their R was wrong. It had been intimate with backrubs, hugging, lying down together (but not sex or kissing). He said that this intimacy had gone on for about a year and he called off the physical intimacy about 9 months ago because (he said) he loved me and could not handle it. He admitted unequivocably that it was wrong. We also discussed the past attractions with women. He admitted he has a problem. He admitted to one infidelity when he was in grad school. He showed great shame at this confession. Though this admission affected me not at all since it was SO long ago, the fact of our talking and his honesty for the first time made me hopeful for our future. He claimed that he thought that I did not want to stay married because I had been gone for so long each time. It was the first honest talk we've had in our marriage where he did not try to defend himself or blame me. (It actually made me think she'd done him some good.)

 

He 'ended' the R with a call the next day that we planned together. He said that he 'ended it and told her good-bye." He said that he told her that he'd told me everything. He said that she agreed that it was wrong. He told her that he has a job that he would like to finish up and then he will leave this house (2-3 months). Then, she told him that I had been a b--- to her in our phone conversation the day before. He defended me saying 'that is my wife' and she apologized.

 

I agreed for him to leave the house to make the call, but this has rankled me ever since. Intellectually I think it was important for her to believe that the call was his and between them, but emotionally I have been unsettled about it. I was especially so when he told me her remark about my having been a b----. This agression coupled with the resolute denial, lying and putting me on the defensive - instead of showing the shame and honesty my H had shown has left me full of rage against her.

 

My husband says that he wants to win back my trust and knows that he must work at it. He has sworn that he will not have any contact with her. He has admitted his problem with flirting with women and will stop. I have told him it's his last chance. I have told him that I will stay here (not travel) until we and all our things are moved out of this house and settled somewhere else.

 

I finally wrote her twice. Once, to say that I knew everything and was very hurt by her deceit and efforts to put me on the defensive. I felt SO relieved after sending this message because up to then I had felt such deep injustice at the fact that the OW, someone I trusted, has treated me like the perpetrator, lied and deceived me. Sometimes it seems so unfair that both of them are getting off so easy, but I refuse to tell my poor bed-ridden brother these facts. Never. So she is, in a way, getting away scott free. She answered the other message (only regarding arrangements for the house. I wrote her again saying that I felt enough relief at having told her that she'd hurt me and that I know everything. I said that I wanted our families to be able to enjoy each other.

 

So, why am I still so unsettled? I would like to tell my SIL that I know everything by telling her the details he told me. I am stung by her calling me a b--- to my H. It's not the name; it's that she did not have the shame that he showed, that she is so indignant and even put me on the defensive. I also do not want her to blame me to my nephews.

 

I am unsettled about my husband. This just seems way too easy at times. I have demanded heart-to-hearts three times since d-day and the last time he pretty much cried and called himself broken, saying he is so ashamed and begging me to try and make our time together meaningful (rather than going over and over this).

 

DON'T FALL FOR THIS!!!!!! Your husband is a cheater. He will do this to you again and again and again. No matter how many times he says "I love you" or any of the such, just remember how easy it was for him to basically do the mating dance with someone else (in this case your sister-in-law). Women shouldn't stay with cheaters. There is life after divorce you know!!!! Don't fall for the trap!!!! Throw him out and start over!!!!!! Have some self-respect!!!!

 

I am also unsettled about my children. I am fairly sure that one of them has figured out something not quite right was between his father and his aunt because he worked at her house while H did a remodel. I asked my son briefly if he felt uncomfortable with their closenes, and he said that he'd asked her once and she assured him that his father is just a good friend, but one of her best friends. He indicated he'd left it at this but felt that I had every right to ask her myself. I feel I should find some way to let my son express his anxiety about the situation. He is in his 30's but this past year was a very bad time for him, and I have wondered if this was why.

 

I wonder what I'm missing and still must do to make this thing right for me, my brother, my brother's and my children and for my marriage. Thanks for reading this far and sorry it's so long.

 

My opinion is that once a spouse cheats, it should be automatic that the betrayed spouse (in this case you) leaves the cheater once and for all. It's better for your personal health, and for your children.

 

And you SHOULD TELL YOUR BROTHER EVERYTHING. Of all the people you can probably trust, it should be your brother. Hopefully if your brother finds out, he'll also divorce.

 

Life is too short to stay with cheaters.

[turnera]

I am accumulating way too much rage and need for accountability from H that I think I could let things slide without confrontation. I have realized that this is my #1 need before even considering separation and divorce. This is going to sound a bit immature perhaps, but I want the counseling to facilitate full disclosure on all counts so that I can scream at him with proven, justified rage. I want to get him to admit everything. Why would he do that if he thinks we're just getting a divorce?

IMO, a GREAT way to find that rage and keep it (you need it inside you so you don't just cave) is to picture him and her - not just 'doing it' but all the talks, the extra work they had to do to get to see each other, the lies they had to come up with, the lies they told...it was DELIBERATE, merr, deliberate fooling you. ON PURPOSE. They colluded on how to FOOL you so they could cheat. For a LONG time.

 

Remember that.

[turnera]

I want to get him to admit everything. Why would he do that if he thinks we're just getting a divorce?

 

However, what you all seem to be saying is that divorce is also a message to H, a means to this end of smacking him over the head with the most serious reality check possible. I do not do that naturally - make a move for some other purpose than what the action is - and don't think it would be believable. I guess you're saying that, if there's a possibility that he will surprise me, it may take the reality of divorce to make that happen.

First, I've lost count of the number of BSs who say they want the WS to admit everything. Do you know how many eventually end up GETTING that everything? About 10%. The rest just never ever find out the whole thing. Cheaters lie. And lie well. It's what they do. So choosing your path SO THAT you can find out everything is a lesson in futility. YOU will end up frustrated, feeling like a fool, with no more knowledge than you started with.

 

So you say you won't wave the D word around in an attempt to scare him into revealing. But aren't you doing the same thing? Pretending to be ok with him SO THAT he will go to therapy and reveal all? Why is one better or worse than the other.

 

Just be honest with him. I don't know if I'll ever get over this. You've hurt me more than anything in my life. I'm not sure I can look you in the face for the next 20/30/50 years. I AM willing to go to MC with you to take things slow and look at what happened. We owe each other that much. But I make no promises other than that.

 

And yes, in more than 10 years of doing this, usually the ONLY time a cheater will come clean is if they fear the BS will leave them without it.

[merrmeade]

So you say you won't wave the D word around in an attempt to scare him into revealing. But aren't you doing the same thing? Pretending to be ok with him SO THAT he will go to therapy and reveal all? Why is one better or worse than the other?

 

Yes, this is true. Had not thought of it this way. It is a lie for me either way.

 

And yes, in more than 10 years of doing this, usually the ONLY time a cheater will come clean is if they fear the BS will leave them without it.

 

Do you mean that you have been doing this for 10 years?

[BetrayedH]

MM,

 

Forgive me for prying but I have been wondering...

 

What has your husband been doing? Last I recall he was slowly reading that book (which is somewhat ridiculous in and of itself considering that it is maybe 100 pages or something - I think I read it in one sitting).

 

And how are you doing?

[merrmeade]

MM,

 

Forgive me for prying but I have been wondering...

 

What has your husband been doing? Last I recall he was slowly reading that book (which is somewhat ridiculous in and of itself considering that it is maybe 100 pages or something - I think I read it in one sitting).

 

And how are you doing?

 

Good question. He is working outside all day. As I said, he needs this job (contract work) to pay off debts, so someone else doesn't have to later. To give a bit of a margin, at night he has had another job (desk) for someone else that he must finish by this weekend. Maybe it's not an excuse, but a couple of nights, but he did not resist joining me for the final episodes of a cliffhanger TV series online that the two of us had started a few weeks ago. I asked him about the book last night, and he said he hasn't finished it, interrupted by work or something. Maybe it's a bad sign that it doesn't hold his interest maybe or that he chose watching the end of the TV series with me, but he did communicate his intention to read it. Whatever. Yes, I also read it in one evening.

 

I am ok most of the time, but we are pretty much not speaking. I don't look at him. This is possible and exacerbated by my daughter's presence since last weekend. I think that because of our inability to speak freely I'm getting angrier by the day. Yesterday, I thought about checking out a gym while we were in town and drove there with my daughter after dropping H at work. As I drove into the gym parking lot, I started remembering how I'd learned of this place from H & SIL and that she had gone there last time she was here. I lost it completely in front of my daughter. I started screaming and crying and hitting the steering wheel after parking and realized that I can never do or be near anything that reminds me of her or anything they did or talked about. I had another outburst after getting my hair cut, and he failed to comment which my daughter pointed out. I completely bit his head off and pushed his hand away roughly when he tried to stroke my cheek while saying that he was going to say something but we'd been in front of his crew, etc (and then...?). The tension was quite palpable for a few minutes until I helped the situation by giving an explanation for what had just happened in terms of immediate circumstances and dissipated the discomfort so that everyone could function in the same small space and get through lunch amicably.

 

I had been waiting on the counselors' names which I just received yesterday. It's difficult because I don't have a car.

 

In the meantime, I started another thread somewhere called "questions for filing for divorce." I'm realizing that I need to be honest with myself and him about what we're doing and what I'm willing to do. This really worked for me - "I don't know if I'll ever get over this. You've hurt me more than anything in my life. I'm not sure I can look you in the face for the next 20/30/50 years. I AM willing to go to MC with you to take things slow and look at what happened. We owe each other that much. But I make no promises other than that." - and I plan to say it this morning.

 

Then, I'm going to call the counselors and pick a couple to meet and choose from. Until we sit down with a professional therapist, I don't want to tell him everything I've been thinking and my plans for telling the family. I want to tell him this in front of a professional to make sure he understands why it's necessary and we make a plan how to do it.

Edited July 12, 2012 by merrmeade

[BetrayedH]

Ah, yes, you're at the fun part.

 

Sorry, MM, it's not going to be fun for a while. The triggers get to be old in relatively short fashion. I still have to drive by the myriad of hotels my lovely wife used during her affair and it's such a pleasant reminder every time.

 

I don't have much time to write at the moment (sorry) so I'll just ask that you cut yourself a break as much as you can. You're not a superhero and didn't ask for any of this mess. Try not to do things that will cause you serious regret (I went to jail briefly) but otherwise, don't beat yourself up over outbursts. Yiu have a right to be angry and it has to come out.

 

Oh, and what a d!ck for not even reading the book yet. Idiot. Guess you don't have to worry about him knowing the script. My wife read about 15 books and still didn't "get it."

 

Try to smile and take care of yourself today.