Husband's intimacy with sister-in-law a devastating blow

[BetrayedH]

Tonight I asked if we were going to do marriage counseling. He said, "Whatever you want." I said, "Otherwise, we're done here because your remorse and shame are just about your being embarrassed. I don't see that I'm in there at all." No response. I added, "So if there's any hope of reconciliation for us in the time we have that's what we have to do." He just repeated that he'd said he would do whatever I wanted. Then I said, "Will you read that book?" (the book that BetrayedH recommended) He answered that he would. I finished with, "Then we'll take it from there."

 

And that's where I left it. We try counseling and he reads the book. Right now I don't feel like saying a damn thing to him except what we need to communicate for practical matters. Otherwise, I'm finished. I don't feel like dealing with the stupid look of angry defeat and inability to talk about it. We'll see what the MC can do.

 

Fair?

 

See what happens. But he definitely has to take more ownership of this. Wallowing in self pity is just more selfishness and does nothing to help heal you or the marriage that he dropped a nuclear bomb on.

[merrmeade]

Frankly I don't have much hope for it anyway and THAT is exactly what I'll say in counseling. I don't have any hope that he could ever make me believe or trust him again. The blow from the disclosure last night was not the fact of the physical affair but the fact that he'd lied and obfuscated so directly - again, after I made it very, very clear that he had to tell me then. It would take a miracle for me to trust or believe him again.

[turnera]

Read some more stories here. You'll find that 95% of all cheaters become EXPERT LIARS - baldface lies to your face. Without blinking. They compartmentalize so they can live with themselves. Kind of like lying to an official to get your kid into a school or something. You do what you have to do, you know?

 

That said, look into toxic shame. See if it fits. If it does, his therapist will need to take a different path to help him.

[merrmeade]

Read some more stories here. You'll find that 95% of all cheaters become EXPERT LIARS - baldface lies to your face. Without blinking. They compartmentalize so they can live with themselves. Kind of like lying to an official to get your kid into a school or something. You do what you have to do, you know?

 

That said, look into toxic shame. See if it fits. If it does, his therapist will need to take a different path to help him.

 

Thanks, turnera (btw - what does "turnera" mean?) and I just looked it up.

 

From Wikipedia on Shame:

Toxic shame: describes false, pathological shame, and Bradshaw states that toxic shame is induced, inside children, by all forms of child abuse. Incest and other forms of child sexual abuse can cause particularly severe toxic shame. Toxic shame often induces what is known as complex trauma in children who cannot cope with toxic shaming as it occurs and who dissociate the shame until it is possible to cope with.

 

Nope, too generous. Don't think he experienced this complex trauma or abuse. Toxic shame sounds forgivable, like it's not their fault. "Secret shame" sounds more like what he's about:

Secret shame: describes the idea of being ashamed to be ashamed, so causing ashamed people to keep their shame a secret.

 

But really, it's the next section down the page on "Narcissism," however, that completely nails him:

Narcissism

It has been suggested that narcissism in adults is related to defenses against shame and that narcissistic personality disorder is connected to shame as well. Psychiatrist Glen Gabbard suggested that NPD could be broken down into two subtypes, a grandiose, arrogant, thick-skinned "oblivious" subtype and an easily hurt, oversensitive, ashamed "hypervigilant" subtype. The oblivious subtype presents for admiration, envy, and appreciation a grandiose self that is the antithesis of a weak internalized self which hides in shame, while the hypervigilant subtype neutralizes devaluation by seeing others as unjust abusers.

 

- to a tee ("T"?). It's a perfect summary of my H but not sure which subtype he is - seems like all and both.

Edited July 6, 2012 by merrmeade

[merrmeade]

Read some more stories here. You'll find that 95% of all cheaters become EXPERT LIARS - baldface lies to your face. Without blinking. They compartmentalize so they can live with themselves. Kind of like lying to an official to get your kid into a school or something. You do what you have to do, you know?

 

That said, look into toxic shame. See if it fits. If it does, his therapist will need to take a different path to help him.

 

Yes, I've been reading. There are some real pieces of work posting and helping each other. They don't even see the sarcasm in the comments. What an education. Makes me so grateful for the noble-minded, ethical, loving parents I had.

[merrmeade]

Also, thanks for the suggestion, because I have long felt that H is a psychological mess. Narcissistic, yes, and wanting to be seen as a good person - hell, as a perfect human being. That's the image of himself he craves and does every action to create in other people's minds. THAT is why he's paralyzed with this shame. It's all a sham. He doesn't know who or what he is now but knows he's not a good person and knows that I see exactly who he is. And that keeps him from moving forward or from feeling empathy for me. He's really and truly damaged goods.

 

I have known since I started reading their emails this fact. She built his ego up in a way that he desperately needed at a time in his life when he was experiencing shame and failure from many sides. (Not to engender pity for him because all our lives has been about his sacrificing his family for projects that made him a saviour for somebody or other - but to keep to recent history...) He'd found out that a huge project of his overseas was a disaster, was being torn down by furious clients and he was blamed for all of it. It had been his magnum opus. Second, he was and has always been broke, never planning well, and living in my brother's house.

 

So what did he do? He made my SIL, my B1 and their children absolutely adore him. He cooked for them, cleaned, worked, visited, listened, advised and became the perfect "uncle," father-figure, brother, friend, even husband that a woman, teen boy or paralyzed victim could imagine. And they all loved him, admired and pitied him. After all, he had also survived cancer, a transplant and the concomitant side effects ongoing, so they also pitied him. His wife had abandoned him in this condition (of course, they thought like this) while she did her own idea of service abroad for others.* All that I was told of this extensive other life was that once a week for five years, SIL called and talked him for an hour or so of phone therapy. He would listen and not judge he said. So, of course, when she offered backrubs, he accepted and enjoyed the inevitable sex, I suppose - not that I kid myself into thinking she is to blame. (In one email, he told her that rather than have counseling, she could "come here and get better counseling...")

 

I have pointed out to him - not that such a person could just hear the truth and recognize it - that he never knocked himself out for me or his kids in any of these ways. He never sacrificed for us, never tried to make us adore him, never cooked for us, cleaned, worked, visited, listened, advised or knocked himself out to be the perfect father or husband until recently. No, we have always been an extension of his damaged ego (didn't say this part to him but thought it) and were used to serve others as his family. I never experienced his great listening skills or any other of the qualities of sensitivity and compassion that she has attributed to him in their emails. Even now, though he has tried to help out our son while I was gone, it's never without complaining about how much sacrifice and money it takes from him. (He even told me that he never told the SIL about his giving our son money when I'd found her email to him advising in ALL CAPS that he should stop giving money to our son.)

 

And that's the real story.

 

-----Note: It was also his wish that I be able to do what I've been doing overseas - long before the affair. We had an understanding and he says even now that I should "save myself" and not sacrifice for him (not that I'm impressed or influenced by his saying that). I am the one who insisted on staying here because he is not well and gets sick easily, and I didn't want my sons to end up sacrificing their lives for him. I had no idea that even in such a condition he could create such a mess and shoot himself in the foot so irrevocably.

Edited July 6, 2012 by merrmeade

[turnera]

turnera is my favorite flower.

 

My DH did that, too. Bent over backwards for EVERYone - except me. While our house fell apart around our ears, he was spending 30 hours a week rebuilding our church because my idiot stepmother planted a rumor in the neighborhood about DH, so he sought to 'fix' his reputation by being our church's saint. Any neighbor, friend, or stranger who needed something, guess who jumped up to help them? Yep. DH. While I can't even get him to hang a curtain rod. It sucks being last.

[merrmeade]

turnera is my favorite flower.

 

My DH did that, too. Bent over backwards for EVERYone - except me. While our house fell apart around our ears, he was spending 30 hours a week rebuilding our church because my idiot stepmother planted a rumor in the neighborhood about DH, so he sought to 'fix' his reputation by being our church's saint. Any neighbor, friend, or stranger who needed something, guess who jumped up to help them? Yep. DH. While I can't even get him to hang a curtain rod. It sucks being last.

 

Did you finally divorce DH?

 

http://coolbreezephotography.blogspot.com/2010/09/florida-tasselflower-turnera-subulata.html

Edited July 6, 2012 by merrmeade

[turnera]

Ah, thanks! I copied it to my screensaver.

 

No, we are still married, 32 years. I finally told him in May (I know, I know) that if he didn't go to therapy I was leaving. He's had two sessions so far.

[merrmeade]

Makes me feel a lot better somehow. We need to complain here. The truth is what it is. And yet what makes us stay with them is a lot more complicated and harder to write about. Maybe another thread...

 

Not that I've decided one way or the other yet.

 

Scarlet O'Hara here.

[Stellar Wench]

If he attends therapy and jumps through all the hoops you put before him, will you be able to trust him, or still have that nag in the back of your mind?

 

Be honest with yourself. Many people can not regain trust after betrayal, despite the WS' compliance. Your H seems to wish to placate you so that all of this will go away. Is that good enough for you?

[merrmeade]

If he attends therapy and jumps through all the hoops you put before him, will you be able to trust him, or still have that nag in the back of your mind?

 

Be honest with yourself. Many people can not regain trust after betrayal, despite the WS' compliance. Your H seems to wish to placate you so that all of this will go away. Is that good enough for you?

 

If you're talking to me, I don't know and may have unrealistic hopes for this touted therapy. I had therapy about 12 years ago myself - mainly b/c of H - and was greatly empowered by it at the time. It was also great for my kids in their teen-age years. My H went a couple of times to their sessions and said zip. I don't hold out a lot of hope for it, no.

 

And I think this last lie really did seal the question of trust for me. He lies to protect his image. Unless the counselor is Jesus (and even then), I can't see that changing.

 

I think I know where it's going but just want to do each step when it's in front of me. It's hard to think about it today. Maybe Monday. I'm hoping this weekend will be a little bit of renewal with a family gathering and, yes, I think I can enjoy them without being distracted by the SH's SHedness. (S---H---: H stands for "head" but could be "husband" - either way)

Edited July 6, 2012 by merrmeade

[Silly_Girl]

If he attends therapy and jumps through all the hoops you put before him, will you be able to trust him, or still have that nag in the back of your mind?

 

Be honest with yourself. Many people can not regain trust after betrayal, despite the WS' compliance. Your H seems to wish to placate you so that all of this will go away. Is that good enough for you?

 

It's always a worry that you can 'go through all that' and all you know at the end is that they're prepared to placate you. Finding out whether you trust them comes a long, long time after. And if you don't trust them it's very hard at that point to bale. Because things are better, things are 'working', they've tried so hard. It starts to feel as though YOU'RE the problem, not them. It seems mean or flippant to start bringing back up old stuff from 'before'. But your other half can do everything you ask and more and it doesn't guarantee happiness or trust. I think it's hard sometimes to remember that the person who cheated did the damage way back when, and not to feel guilt for not being able to move on with that person.

 

Sorry, found myself meandering down memory lane for quite a while there

[dreamingoftigers]

Also, thanks for the suggestion, because I have long felt that H is a psychological mess. Narcissistic, yes, and wanting to be seen as a good person - hell, as a perfect human being. That's the image of himself he craves and does every action to create in other people's minds. THAT is why he's paralyzed with this shame. It's all a sham. He doesn't know who or what he is now but knows he's not a good person and knows that I see exactly who he is. And that keeps him from moving forward or from feeling empathy for me. He's really and truly damaged goods.

 

I have known since I started reading their emails this fact. She built his ego up in a way that he desperately needed at a time in his life when he was experiencing shame and failure from many sides. (Not to engender pity for him because all our lives has been about his sacrificing his family for projects that made him a saviour for somebody or other - but to keep to recent history...) He'd found out that a huge project of his overseas was a disaster,

was being torn down by furious clients and he was blamed for all of it. It had been his magnum opus. Second, he was and has always been broke, never planning well, and living in my brother's house.

 

So what did he do? He made my SIL, my B1 and their children absolutely adore him. He cooked for them, cleaned, worked, visited, listened, advised and became the perfect "uncle," father-figure, brother, friend, even husband that a woman, teen boy or paralyzed victim could imagine. And they all loved him, admired and pitied him. After all, he had also survived cancer, a transplant and the concomitant side effects ongoing, so they also pitied him. His wife had abandoned him in this condition (of course, they thought like this) while she did her own idea of service abroad for others.* All that I was told of this extensive other life was that once a week for five years, SIL called and talked him for an hour or so of phone therapy. He would listen and not judge he said. So, of course, when she offered backrubs, he accepted and enjoyed the inevitable sex, I suppose - not that I kid myself into thinking she is to blame. (In one email, he told her that rather than have counseling, she could "come here and get better counseling...")

 

I have pointed out to him - not that such a person could just hear the truth and recognize it - that he never knocked himself out for me or his kids in any of these ways. He never sacrificed for us, never tried to make us adore him, never cooked for us, cleaned, worked, visited, listened, advised or knocked himself out to be the perfect father or husband until recently. No, we have always been an extension of his damaged ego (didn't say this part to him but thought it) and were used to serve others as his family. I never experienced his great listening skills or any other of the qualities of sensitivity and compassion that she has attributed to him in their emails. Even now, though he has tried to help out our son while I was gone, it's never without complaining about how much sacrifice and money it takes from him. (He even told me that he never told the SIL about his giving our son money when I'd found her email to him advising in ALL CAPS that he should stop giving money to our son.)

 

And that's the real story.

 

-----Note: It was also his wish that I be able to do what I've been doing overseas - long before the affair. We had an understanding and he says even now that I should "save myself" and not sacrifice for him (not that I'm impressed or influenced by his saying that). I am the one who insisted on staying here because he is not well and gets sick easily, and I didn't want my sons to end up sacrificing their lives for him. I had no idea that even in such a

condition he could create such a mess and shoot himself in the foot so irrevocably.

 

OMG, you married my Dad's clone.

He always put us last, we didn't really ask anything of him but he acted like we expected the world.

 

Shortly after his affair I went over to visit my mother and he came in and wailed at both of us "I never get anything, I had a ****ty life for years and all I did was do everything you people asked."

 

I was so detached from him by this point (we had barely spoken in the 10 years previous after he tried to kill me in my teens by strangulation).

 

I actually burst out laughing. I asked him if he really believed that.

I said "really? Because as long as I've been around it is ALL ABOUT YOU. you have every stupid toy you ever wanted; you gave antique cars sitting in front, you invite all of your buddies, scads of young women out for parties and limo rides and concerts, while your wife drives these bearers that aren't even safe and hasn't had her clothes updated since the 80s!"

 

( no joke)

 

He was shopping for a brand new car for his mistress when the affair was discovered.

 

The only things he's ever done for me was when he could publicly show off his money in front of other people. He borrowed heavily from me on my credit cards when I was 18 and it ruined me.

 

He didn't care about my education (or lack thereof). It was always, always about him.

 

I would hear the way he would talk about me specifically like ge was some great, far-reaching parent that gave previous me all of these great opportunities that I just threw away and how "horribly" I treated him.

 

It was really abusive and really sick. It makes me sicker as I get older and have my own child.

 

He stopped all of the friendships he could. And all of the relationships he could too unless it was with a bf he could control.

 

He discouraged any form of independence that didn't flatter him. I wasn't even allowed to walk to school even though it was two blocks away.

He let me know that I was a fat disappointment to him. I was lazy, incapable, just like every relative he hated, impossible to deal with, mouthy and a brat. If I cried he told me to suck it up. If I got angry him and my mother would laugh at me.

 

If I had a crush on a boy he would tell me weird **** like "you love him more than me."

 

He physically abused me. He would pin me down. He would make up stories about himself and take jokes from tv and act like they were his that he came up with or special things he did. He'd talk like John Wayne or Clint Eastwood to his own family.

 

He loved alcohol more then the rest of us and still has not given it up, even though social services intervened in his life.

 

He tells people I married my husband "just to rebel against him." (okay okay I find this one funny. Like I married someone for a lifetime commitment just to put my abusive father who I saw twice a year in a mildly bad mood)

 

He would pay young women scads of money to work for him and then give them whatever they asked for. They needed a car to go to and from work? They could borrow it, one girl even completely wrecked one. They needed a course paid for? Sure thing, why not?

 

He paid outright for my cousins education and flew her out from Ontario to celebrate his 50th birthday. A party I was not even invited to. They later claimed it was because I didn't tell them I was pregnant and they knew about it. Well they must have been psychic: his birthday party was on the 5th and I didn't find out until the 14th!

 

And sadly enough the older he gets, the weirder he is.

 

He tried to stop me from running a little cleaning service. I mean WENT RIGHT OUT OF HIS WAY to shut us down. He even had my insurance temporarily cancelled.

 

He refused to go to my wedding. I let him know he hadnt been invited. He let me know he didn't care. He tried to get my mother not to go. I said fine. Stay home. The reason he point-blank gave: "you *******s aren't serving alcohol and I consider that a personal attack."

 

He ended up coming. I had security at my wedding.

 

Your children may not have it as weird or rough.

 

But a narcissist is a narcissist. Did you back up his putting you and the kids last? If you did, you might want to get your kids a copy of Toxic Parents.

 

I just about ate that book, I read the whole thing within 48 hours. I underlined the Hell out of it.

 

Truth be told: I was anything but a difficult kid. I was quiet. I avoided him as much as I could. I told my mom the things he'd say and do, she'd make excuses for him. In many ways I hate her more. She knew he was an idiot and she didn't protect me. I watched my siblings. I developed eating as a coping habit because it was the only thing they couldn't control. I would sneak cans of soup and cookies etc up to my room to eat.

 

If I did anything wrong or embarrassing they would shame and Blame me. If I did anything right: it was to their credit.

 

As an adult I have had relationships where love is something I've worked painstakingly for and not truly felt I've gotten in return. Truth be told: it felt impossible.

 

I realize that my post rambled and may seem self-serving. I hope what you can take from it is that maybe you need to do some healing with your kids and yourself even more then the marriage would need to be healed.

 

You might want to know why you let your marriage be last to his ego. Why did you stand by when he was endearing himself to other women?

 

I am not trying to preach at you. I have my own questions to ask of myself and posting here over the last couple of days has made me realize that I am not as far along as I thought

[dreamingoftigers]

Oh crapp. Sorry went way off topic.....

 

Got caught up. Sorry sorry.

 

So, um, how about that narcissism?

[merrmeade]

Family is healing - children, nephews, even a grandchild. I'll think about this in a couple of days.

[BetrayedH]

Family is healing - children, nephews, even a grandchild. I'll think about this in a couple of days.

 

Good to hear.

[merrmeade]

OMG, you married my Dad's clone.

He always put us last, we didn't really ask anything of him but he acted like we expected the world. Shortly after his affair I went over to visit my mother and he came in and wailed at both of us "I never get anything, I had a ****ty life for years and all I did was do everything you people asked." I was so detached from him by this point (we had barely spoken in the 10 years previous after he tried to kill me in my teens by strangulation). I actually burst out laughing. I asked him if he really believed that. I said "really? Because as long as I've been around it is ALL ABOUT YOU. you have every stupid toy you ever wanted; you gave antique cars sitting in front, you invite all of your buddies, scads of young women out for parties and limo rides and concerts, while your wife drives these bearers that aren't even safe and hasn't had her clothes updated since the 80s!" ( no joke) He was shopping for a brand new car for his mistress when the affair was discovered. The only things he's ever done for me was when he could publicly show off his money in front of other people. He borrowed heavily from me on my credit cards when I was 18 and it ruined me. He didn't care about my education (or lack thereof). It was always, always about him. I would hear the way he would talk about me specifically like ge was some great, far-reaching parent that gave previous me all of these great opportunities that I just threw away and how "horribly" I treated him. It was really abusive and really sick. It makes me sicker as I get older and have my own child. He stopped all of the friendships he could. And all of the relationships he could too unless it was with a bf he could control. He discouraged any form of independence that didn't flatter him. I wasn't even allowed to walk to school even though it was two blocks away. He let me know that I was a fat disappointment to him. I was lazy, incapable, just like every relative he hated, impossible to deal with, mouthy and a brat. If I cried he told me to suck it up. If I got angry him and my mother would laugh at me. If I had a crush on a boy he would tell me weird **** like "you love him more than me." He physically abused me. He would pin me down. He would make up stories about himself and take jokes from tv and act like they were his that he came up with or special things he did. He'd talk like John Wayne or Clint Eastwood to his own family. He loved alcohol more then the rest of us and still has not given it up, even though social services intervened in his life. He tells people I married my husband "just to rebel against him." (okay okay I find this one funny. Like I married someone for a lifetime commitment just to put my abusive father who I saw twice a year in a mildly bad mood) He would pay young women scads of money to work for him and then give them whatever they asked for. They needed a car to go to and from work? They could borrow it, one girl even completely wrecked one. They needed a course paid for? Sure thing, why not? He paid outright for my cousins education and flew her out from Ontario to celebrate his 50th birthday. A party I was not even invited to. They later claimed it was because I didn't tell them I was pregnant and they knew about it. Well they must have been psychic: his birthday party was on the 5th and I didn't find out until the 14th! And sadly enough the older he gets, the weirder he is. He tried to stop me from running a little cleaning service. I mean WENT RIGHT OUT OF HIS WAY to shut us down. He even had my insurance temporarily cancelled. He refused to go to my wedding. I let him know he hadnt been invited. He let me know he didn't care. He tried to get my mother not to go. I said fine. Stay home. The reason he point-blank gave: "you *******s aren't serving alcohol and I consider that a personal attack." He ended up coming. I had security at my wedding.

 

Your children may not have it as weird or rough. But a narcissist is a narcissist. Did you back up his putting you and the kids last? If you did, you might want to get your kids a copy of Toxic Parents. I just about ate that book, I read the whole thing within 48 hours. I underlined the Hell out of it.

 

Truth be told: I was anything but a difficult kid. I was quiet. I avoided him as much as I could. I told my mom the things he'd say and do, she'd make excuses for him. In many ways I hate her more. She knew he was an idiot and she didn't protect me. I watched my siblings. I developed eating as a coping habit because it was the only thing they couldn't control. I would sneak cans of soup and cookies etc up to my room to eat. If I did anything wrong or embarrassing they would shame and Blame me. If I did anything right: it was to their credit. As an adult I have had relationships where love is something I've worked painstakingly for and not truly felt I've gotten in return. Truth be told: it felt impossible. I realize that my post rambled and may seem self-serving.

 

I hope what you can take from it is that maybe you need to do some healing with your kids and yourself even more then the marriage would need to be healed. You might want to know why you let your marriage be last to his ego. Why did you stand by when he was endearing himself to other women?

 

I am not trying to preach at you. I have my own questions to ask of myself and posting here over the last couple of days has made me realize that I am not as far along as I thought

 

I am sorry I did not get back to this right away because so much was revealed in response to my own memory stream. I think that we share a lot on this forum and there are often patterns that can be identified in relationships but not always. I cannot imagine how hard this must be when you don't have a good model from your own father. It makes me realize the importance of girls developing confidence and self-worth because they feel valued by the important men and boys in their childhood.

 

I think in my own case, my brothers and father didn't do a great job of making me feel worthwhile and cherished, so I didn't know better when my husband took advantage of my low self-esteem. Still, their integrity and my father's nobility and generosity are leagues above my husband's. My daughter is fine and, reading your sad description of your father's treatment of you, I know that that my H did not go nearly so far. My sons seem to have a harder time dealing with his disappointments and the guilt-trips, but there was no blaming, shaming or abuse to the extent you describe.

 

Maybe I'll hold back a little with the online psychology diagnosis and wait to see what a professional says. It doesn't really matter, does it - narcissist or not? The damage has been done and is real. It was wrong what he did, and I would not have done it to him. The real question is whether I can ever forgive him, and I just don't know.

[turnera]

No need to rush anything. Know your boundaries, live your life with your kids how it needs to be run. If he catches up, fine. If not, you're doing what you need to do.

[Furious]

Having the family with you this weekend is a good thing.

 

I hope your husband realizes that this time together and the life and children you brought into the world gives him a wake up call to what he may be losing.

 

Keep strong

Edited July 8, 2012 by Furious

[merrmeade]

So the kids are gone and had a good, healing time themselves. That's good. That's what a parent wants to be able to do.

 

But I am still in shock and sorrow. Because of the details that I discovered in the last D-day exchange which was two days ago just hours before the first kids arrived, I am really staggering with this one and not sure I can get over it.

 

I can see he wants it and hopes it will happen because of my first overtures at reconciliation. But this latest has me reeling. At the same time, I HAD to know. I could not have gone forward wondering and knowing I didn't know everything. I do not wish not to know; it's not an option. But knowing what I know that they did makes me wonder if it will ever be possible to get over it, to forgive, to want reconciliation.

 

P.S. I got the book "How to Help Your Spouse Recover from Your Affair" and he will read it but don't see how he can change enough or I can get on with 'normal.

[turnera]

I was just watching a movie where the two people danced around each other for years and years without ending up together, before the time was finally just right.

 

You're not in a hurry. Take your time and do it right.

[merrmeade]

I am waiting on the therapist I talked to last week to give me some names of marriage counselors. In the meantime, H has started reading the Help your Spouse Heal book.** Started. He is also very clearly to me focussed on getting his own ducks in a row. He is spending all the money he earns on paying back his various debts. They are under $12,000, but with his income that is significant. I don't really give a flying f--- any more and don't think I need to organize myself around his debts, as I thought a months ago and the majority of our lives together.

 

I am ruminating, overrun by memories and meaning about the affair deceptions; about ways he's taken advantage of me and others in the past; about how he complained to the OW and his own family that he'd been helping our son financially to his own demise (he claimed, when, in fact, it was the first and only time he has EVER sacrificed financially for any of our children; before, schooling and all needs beyond living expenses came from my income or from my parents) but swore to me he had not told them EVERY TIME I'VE ASKED; about the gifts they've exchanged (the ones I know about); and mostly - waking, going to sleep and all day - about the sex.

 

I am losing interest in reconciliation by the hour and don't know that I'm willing to stick around for two years or whatever to help him fix it. How does one go the other direction - find a good lawyer and get those ducks in a row? Are there good websites? , just in case I decide I'm ready to blow it open and file.

 

One thing that stops me - don't know if this is unusual - but I really want the therapy with him so I can let him HAVE IT. I can't do that with my daughter here for one thing. Also there are some topics - like details about the sex - that I want a professional around to field the discussion and stop it when it's not useful. I have no sense of those boundaries any more. I just obsess.

 

I know I'm still flip-flopping but less. Hell. No apologies.

 

**btw, I have mixed feelings about this book, having read all of it in a short time last night. That is, I wonder if such a book doesn't also just provide a script for the WS. On the one hand, a behaviorist might say, "So what? If he does the right actions, the right feelings will follow and settle into place." On the other hand, it could be a lifeline for him to get out of public humiliation. Couldn't it just be like everything else that he has done? He wants to be seen as good, noble, etc., and most recently, he changed himself completely to be that for my SIL's family.

 

A good thing about reading that book and everything else about the BS's post D-day state is validation of being so depressed, obssesive and stuck emotionally. My diverticulitis has flared up. Don't want to exercise or do anything. Just sleep or do this. Therapy would be good because talking gets the emotions focused and maybe lets the rage and sorrow out. Right now, just wandering in a fog as some have described it.

Edited July 9, 2012 by merrmeade

[Furious]

I am waiting on the therapist I talked to last week to give me some names of marriage counselors. In the meantime, H has started reading the Help your Spouse Heal book.** Started. He is also very clearly to me focussed on getting his own ducks in a row. He is spending all the money he earns on paying back his various debts. They are under $12,000, but with his income that is significant. I don't really give a flying f--- any more and don't think I need to organize myself around this as I did a month ago.

 

I am ruminating, overrun by memories and meaning about the affair deceptions; about ways he's taken advantage of me and others in the past; about how he complained to the OW and his own family that he'd been helping our son financially to his own demise (he claimed, when, in fact, it was the first and only time he has EVER sacrificed financially for any of our children;

before, schooling and all needs beyond living expenses came from my income or from my parents) but swore to me he had not told them EVERY TIME I'VE ASKED; about the gifts they've exchanged (the ones I know about); and mostly waking, going to sleep and all day about the sex.

 

I am losing interest in reconciliation by the hour and don't know that I'm willing to stick around for two years or whatever to help him fix it. How does one go the other direction - find a good lawyer and get those ducks in a row? Are there good websites? , just in case I decide I'm ready to blow it open and file.

 

**btw, I have mixed feelings about this book, having read all of it in a short

time last night. That is, I wonder if such a book doesn't also just provide a script for the WS. On the one hand, a behaviorist might say, "So what? If he does the right actions, the right feelings will follow and settle into place." On the other hand, it could be a lifeline for him to get out of public humiliation. Couldn't it just be like everything else that he has done? He wants to be seen as good, noble, etc., and most recently, he changed himself completely to be that for my SIL's family.

 

A good thing about my reading that book and everything else about what I'm going through is validation of the utter devastation and depression. My diverticulitis has flared up. I don't want to do anything. Don't want to exercise; just sleep or do this. Therapy would be good because talking gets the emotions focused and maybe let some rage out or cry. Right now, I'm just wandering in a fog as some have described it here.

 

 

 

As much as we'd like, we can't dodge the sudden reality of where we find ourselves when it finally sinks in.

 

I didn't sleep for months, I barely remember how I got through somedays.

 

What helped was getting my ducks in order.

 

Got into IC for my self and my children.

Retained a divorce lawyer.

I changed my will.

Removed him off my life insurance policy.

Read everything I could to try to understand.

Walked...walked....walked...until my feet hurt.

Took up Karate.(hahaha)

 

Take care of yourself, and with time he will either prove to you he's worth the effort or not for a second chance.

 

Hugs

[merrmeade]

As much as we'd like, we can't dodge the sudden reality of where we find ourselves when it finally sinks in.

 

I didn't sleep for months, I barely remember how I got through somedays.

 

What helped was getting my ducks in order.

 

Got into IC for my self and my children.

Retained a divorce lawyer.

I changed my will.

Removed him off my life insurance policy.

Read everything I could to try to understand.

Walked...walked....walked...until my feet hurt.

Took up Karate.(hahaha)

 

Take care of yourself, and with time he will either prove to you he's worth the effort or not for a second chance.

 

Hugs

 

I would so like a real hug from someone who cares. This is when we need parents.

 

Thanks for reminding me about removing him from all accounts as beneficiary and changing wills, although - get this - my mother basically figured him out a long time ago and wrote HER will so that whatever I got from her went into a trust limited to my health, education and welfare and that of my lineal descendants. It's not a fortune (really) but clearly cuts out the spouse and protects me from his creditors.

 

It's hard to get up and get out the door most days but I'll try to walk more. I know it's good, but karate sounds unbelievably cathartic! How was that anyway?

 

So are there timelines or markers to look for? Is there a thread with particularly recommended websites for reading? I notice, Furious, that your join date is Apr 2012, so does that mean you're only two months ahead of me or was the join date later in the process (if that's not too nosy)?

Edited July 9, 2012 by merrmeade