Disclosure

[SoMovinOn]

Being honest - especially when someone is being harmed - should never be a last resort!

 

Yet Seren *did* say if her friend had murdered someone, she'd have stayed by her side and defended her.

 

Seriously? Having an A is worse than murder?

 

Her moral compass doesn't have a setting for murder?

[woinlove]

 

I think that's what I would have done. Had it out with her, told her I could not participate, and let her know if she chose to continue the A, chose not to tell her H ... that I just couldn't hang out with her or her H ... and I would have ended the friendship with both of them.

 

From LS I get the impression that people in affairs sometimes act in extremely cruel and selfish ways and appear to be oblivious to that fact, but after the affair ends, they can look back and see it. For this reason, I think it makes sense to respond like Seren, out the affair, because the person might then change and come to see what they were doing, so one could salvage and repair the friendship. But, just like cheating is a deal breaker for some BS, having a friend behave in this selfish way might be a deal breaker too, so I understand your perspective. For me, though, if the person had not acted like this pre-affair and I was friends with the BS, I would go Seren's route.

[Got it]

I agree with SMO and since my friendship was first with her I would more likely walk away from the friendship than gotten into the middle of it. I would have clearly laid out to said friend why I was ending the friendship as it would include condoning actions I didn't agree with. It is also taking a huge risk, and what happens a lot is, one or both people turn on the messenger and proverbially shot them.

 

It it to each their own and there is the piece that you never know what someone is going to do with information once you release it to them.

[SoMovinOn]

From LS I get the impression that people in affairs sometimes act in extremely cruel and selfish ways and appear to be oblivious to that fact, but after the affair ends, they can look back and see it. For this reason, I think it makes sense to respond like Seren, out the affair, because the person might then change and come to see what they were doing, so one could salvage and repair the friendship. But, just like cheating is a deal breaker for some BS, having a friend behave in this selfish way might be a deal breaker too, so I understand your perspective. For me, though, if the person had not acted like this pre-affair and I was friends with the BS, I would go Seren's route.

 

I don't think it's my job to fix other people. I can offer my opinions about them, about their actions and choices, to them, but I don't think it would be right for me to believe I would be right in forcing *my* choices and opinions on them.

 

At the very least, the result will be that all parties involved will resent me, make me the bad guy, and continue doing what they were doing all along anyway. The worst case scenarios can get really ugly.

 

In Seren's case, she had the rare outcome of it working out OK. That's usually not how it works though. There are probably far more instances of "friends" attempting to out A's, where the BS refuses to believe them, and the WS continues the A.

[SoMovinOn]

If Seren had suddenly just stopped communicating with these people or otherwise behaving in an odd manner, d'ya think there would have been questions? Um... yeah. Then what? She should now LIE?! Just like her friend?

 

This isn't rocket science. You tell your friend you will not participate. You offer your own opinions on what you think is right, and, if things don't change, you end the friendship. If either of them attempts to contact you with further questions, you direct them to talk to their spouse and let them know you are not interested in or willing to answer any questions. No need to lie.

 

 

So many conveniently sweep under the rug the difficult position the OP was forced into by this person.

 

Definitely not something a "friend" would do, normally. But then, Seren made it pretty clear her and this woman had been "partners in crime" in the past, and she would generally cover for and do whatever needed for her friend. Her friend likely had every expectation this situation would be no different.

 

 

Close friends with both of these people. Just because she knew one of them longer doesn't absolve her of behaving as a friend toward both of them. She told the woman "either stop the A or tell your H." If the woman had simply stopped her sneaking around, Seren would never have told about the A. But, no. She, like SOOOO many others, wanted to have her cake and eat it too.

 

Who am I, or you, or Seren, to decide what others should do with their cake, or even whether or not they should have any?

 

What if she had made her big reveal to the H (who, over the course of this story went from being her Friend's H, to a friend, to a close friend...) ... and the H's response was "I know she's having an A. I don't say anything to her about it because it keeps her busy so she doesn't notice I am having an A"?

 

... so now, does she go back to her friend to reveal her H is having an A as well? Then what? Some PI work, taking pictures and obtaining proof? Finding them a divorce attorney and making an appointment for them?

 

Yes... I could go on an on and make it ridiculous and complicated beyond imagination ... because some people's situations and lives *are* that ridiculous and complicated. Do you really want to interject yourself into a possible mess like that, because you have such a burning desire to force your own morals, beliefs and opinions on others?

 

Along those lines, if that works for you, have at it. For me ... I dump the friend (or friends), wash my hands of their whole mess, and walk away from it. I have enough to deal with in my own life, I don't need other people's problems and drama.

[Ninja'sHusband]

This isn't rocket science. You tell your friend you will not participate. You offer your own opinions on what you think is right, and, if things don't change, you end the friendship. If either of them attempts to contact you with further questions, you direct them to talk to their spouse and let them know you are not interested in or willing to answer any questions. No need to lie.

 

 

 

 

Definitely not something a "friend" would do, normally. But then, Seren made it pretty clear her and this woman had been "partners in crime" in the past, and she would generally cover for and do whatever needed for her friend. Her friend likely had every expectation this situation would be no different.

 

 

 

 

Who am I, or you, or Seren, to decide what others should do with their cake, or even whether or not they should have any?

 

What if she had made her big reveal to the H (who, over the course of this story went from being her Friend's H, to a friend, to a close friend...) ... and the H's response was "I know she's having an A. I don't say anything to her about it because it keeps her busy so she doesn't notice I am having an A"?

 

... so now, does she go back to her friend to reveal her H is having an A as well? Then what? Some PI work, taking pictures and obtaining proof? Finding them a divorce attorney and making an appointment for them?

 

Yes... I could go on an on and make it ridiculous and complicated beyond imagination ... because some people's situations and lives *are* that ridiculous and complicated. Do you really want to interject yourself into a possible mess like that, because you have such a burning desire to force your own morals, beliefs and opinions on others?

 

Along those lines, if that works for you, have at it. For me ... I dump the friend (or friends), wash my hands of their whole mess, and walk away from it. I have enough to deal with in my own life, I don't need other people's problems and drama.

 

So according to you when Seren's BFF's H asked her if there was someone else Seren should have said, "Ask your wife."

 

Pretty much the same thing as saying "yes"...

[scatterd]

Some people find wrong but she did warn her and her friend chose to

ignore her. when you cheat you are taking chances of getting caught and being told on.It comes with the territory some people find cheating bad

and know the pain of being on the other side.She told her either she tells

her husband or she will and she chose to continue her affair. How much clearer could she be? Personally I would have stopped or told on myself

at that point but I'm not cheating. I have been cheated on and everyone told me after the fact when I needed the help is when they should of told me

it would have saved more grief for myself. Just a matter of opinion I like

how she handled it. But to each is own.

[GLDheart]

It would be good to see this as a poll:

 

1. You are a Betrayed Spouse and Agree with telling Betrayed Spouse

2. You are a Wayward Spouse and Agree with telling Betrayed Spouse

 

3. You are a Betrayed Spouse and DISAGREE with telling the Betrayed Spouse

4. You are a Wayward Spouse and DISAGREE with telling the Betrayed Spouse

 

I think it would be VERY TELLING watching the pattern that came out of that poll. I'm sure you have your guess too on how it would turn out :-)

[seren]

For information, my friend and I go back 55 yrs, we and our parents, grandparents etc go back hundreds of years, not an easy thing to walk away from. I love my friend and she me, we had discussed that if our spouses were unfaithful we would expect the other to tell. The BS and my family also go way back, but he and I have been good friends for over 20 years. I am not a fairweather friend and I am not and have never been just a friend during good times nor do I sugar coat truth, neither does she, we both respect this about each other. Had I done the same, she would do the same, we have talked about this, our friendship is intact and we are still as close as before. I do not judge her actions for the A, but I do for involving me in the lie and expecting me to lie for her.

 

I have supported her through crisis in her life and she mine, but, she and I know that I would never expect her to support me in wrong doings that compromise her values and I wouldn't do so for her either. Friendship to us both, does not necessarily mean just doing things to keep the other sweet, a good friend understands this, she does and I do. My friend has since said that she knew deep down that I would tell and that maybe this is what she wanted, I don't know, but I do know that we are still friends and for this I am happy.

 

I find it incongrous that some have said I should just walk away, I don't do that to friends, and I own my own actions, had she not involved me or continued to use me as an excuse to hurt her husband, who incidentally has been very supportive to my H with PTSD, then I would be breaking my own values, hurting and lying to a very good friend and turning a blind eye. I don't do that, my work experiences have informed me that the worse things happen when people turn a blind eye and pretend they don't know something. My friend understands this, understood this and has said she doesn't know WTF she was thinking not only expecting me to lie for her, but also to use our friendship. I don't use others and don't expect to be used myself.

 

If someone knew that an A was happening and said nothing, then, in my eyes, they are enabling and are themselves responsible for hurt. For those in A's, well of course they would hope a friend would cover for them, lie on their behalf, show a smiling face to the BS or just turn a blind eye, sorry, but for the person having the A to expect that is unfair. I would add, that my friend understands this and owns her actions, I own mine and stand by them. The BS asked, if she had Cancer and was hiding it - yes BS think all sorts of crazy things before thinking of an A, he and his family had turned themselves inside out believing she was hiding an illness. So, when asked and then asked if there was someone else I said ask, he had, she had denied and I told him.

 

I had told my friend that if it was asked I would tell, I didn't ask for details of the A, nor would I have sat and listened. I was told I had been used as a cover and I was as mad as hell, I was also concerned that it was out of character and also, knowing who the OM was, concerned for my friend. as I said, with hindsight, my friend has said she is glad it is all out in the open. I have been offline helping them to reconcile and giving them support as I have been asked to. I don't want to do this, but it is helping and so that is how it is.

 

You would have to understand our friendship, a lot of assumptions have been made about what we have supported each other with. No matter what she did, I would support her, but I would never be used as an excuse for hurting another. I have said before and I will say again, the underlying principle on which I live my life is that to which I was raised, it is to do not harm. I try to live by this, to know I have been used to do so, albeit without my knowledge is difficult, to have been placed in a position where my actions hurt at least one person has caused a lot of introspection and reflection. yes, the outcome might have been different, but it wasn't, however, if it wasn't, then I would own my actions. Pity people don't think about that before doing something.

 

My friend and I are solid, the WS and she are trying to reconcile ad I think they will. Either way, I stand by my actions.

Edited July 1, 2012 by seren
spelling

[GLDheart]

...the underlying principle on which I live my life is that to which I was raised, it is to do not harm. I try to live by this....

 

I respect that about you. I truly believe that chosing to be a force for good in life is a virtuous, noble, and wholesome way to live a long life that one can look back on with diginity and serenity.

[SoMovinOn]

So according to you when Seren's BFF's H asked her if there was someone else Seren should have said, "Ask your wife."

 

Pretty much the same thing as saying "yes"...

 

Yup.

 

..........

[SoMovinOn]

3. You are a Betrayed Spouse and DISAGREE with telling the Betrayed Spouse

 

That's me.

[SoMovinOn]

My friend and I are solid, the WS and she are trying to reconcile ad I think they will. Either way, I stand by my actions.

 

The fact that it worked out further supports you. Nothing wrong with that, but, in most cases, it would have likely turned out very different.

[woinlove]

The fact that it worked out further supports you. Nothing wrong with that, but, in most cases, it would have likely turned out very different.

 

Most cases? Based on what?

 

When I was confronted with a similar situation, I told, the A ended, they reconciled, and our friendship survived. I think it largely depends on how strong the friendships are and how one usually behaves. The fact that you would cut both friends out of your life rather than reveal the affair, suggests to me a different kind of friendship than mine, but I don't know if most are like that.

 

Seren, I'm glad to hear you are still friends. In my case, it took a while for everything to get back on track because of the WS's initial reaction. I'm glad your friend could see beyond the affair perspective so quickly.

[leftfordead2]

One chooses to be the messenger. I know it is a difficult decision in a situation like this. But still the decision was made to impose your morals into the situation. Beg out and say you can't. But to rat someone out is a betrayal.

 

If one day, your best friend comes up to you and confesses to killing someone, would you help him keep a secret too?

[SoMovinOn]

Most cases? Based on what?

 

Personal experience. Your mileage may vary.

[SoMovinOn]

As well as category 4, correct?

 

No. Incorrect.

[Got it]

If Seren had suddenly just stopped communicating with these people or otherwise behaving in an odd manner, d'ya think there would have been questions? Um... yeah. Then what? She should now LIE?! Just like her friend?

 

So many conveniently sweep under the rug the difficult position the OP was forced into by this person. Close friends with both of these people. Just because she knew one of them longer doesn't absolve her of behaving as a friend toward both of them. She told the woman "either stop the A or tell your H." If the woman had simply stopped her sneaking around, Seren would never have told about the A. But, no. She, like SOOOO many others, wanted to have her cake and eat it too.

 

No, she leaves it to her ex-friend to explain with a very simple, "talk to her". It puts it back in her friend's camp where it should have remained. situation than I cared to have in my life.

[road]

Tonight I lost my lifelong best friend because I told her husband, who I have come to know over 20 odd years, that she is having an A. My friend has been having an a for a year or so with a man she has met in work. backstory is that her H lost his job in the recession and it was decided that she go full time as she can earn a fair amount, prior to that she stayed at home while he had a professional, well paid career. My friend became close to the OM and they began meeting up and having nights away while she was supposedly on business.

 

I was told, by her, around 2 months ago, she told me all giddily that she was seeing someone else and asked if I would lie for her if her H asked where she was. I told her no and that if she didn't end the A, tell her H or leave, then I would. She said she loved her H and that the A was just fun and made her feel young again. TBH, I felt sick knowing and wouldn't meet up with them as I couldn't stand to see her being as she always had been, loving toward her H, for him to keep saying how hard she worked and how proud he was of her, while knowing she was seeing someone else and what for? To make her feel good, to make her feel young?

 

I asked why and she said that after 20 yrs her marriage had got stale and that she liked the attention, but wasnt leaving and that she didn't want to hurt her H. Nothing different from a 1000 other A's and at that moment I didn't recognise her anymore.

 

I had always known her and her H to be so devoted, she always said how much she loved him and they seemed so happy. I saw her today and asked if she had ended the A or had told her H, she was very defensive saying it wasn't hurting anyone and so I went to see him and told him.

 

I feel like crap, I feel like I have stuck my nose in someone else's business, and I have. But, I looked back and thought how I would have wanted someone to tell me so I could make an informed choice. We have had the mother of all arguments, but I am not sorry. Her concern is that her H will divorce a her and she said that she loved him so much. As her friend I want to offer her support, but am also sad that we cannot be friends again. It is all so dammed selfish and at this moment, I wish everyone who is involved in an A to take a long hard look at what they are doing and ask themselves if they would want that for themselves. What a dammed waste and what a bloody awful mess. Selfish, just bloody selfish.

 

H is working tonight and so I come here to vent away ...

 

 

You did the right thing.