2sunny Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Let me get this straight. It was okay for Seren to tell the truth to the BS as long as she didn't own she was the one exposing...anonymously. But because she showed integrity and tried to let her friend the BS know face to face and with compassion so she could offer comfort and support (to both of them) she was wrong. Got it. Do the right thing as long as you hide. You can't hide when there's truth. Seren - you did the right thing. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I think every individual who chooses to tell the tale of someone else's business should choose to do it anonymously (maybe except parent/child). I don't believe in involving oneself in an already difficult situation. There are already other issues that are now on the surface that have to acknowledged. What that person has now done is added more issues to the situation. Why would you add yourself to an equation that is already difficult. I have to question the motives behind it. It's like people who give money away, some do it anonymously. They do it because they want to and there's no need for praise. None. Can the deed be told without getting involved, if the answer is yes then tell the tale. There are many people who love to watch drama unfold. They feed off it. Seren has been through her issues. She states her friend knows this. As soon as that woman opened up her mouth and said she was cheating. *Seren's hand should have went through the phone and put her hand right in her face.* Stop. The B word should have came out her mouth and cursed her out. You know what I've been through and here you are f*cking on your husband. I am going to doubt that was the initial response because Seren has details. She listened. She should have ended that relationship with her then and there. There will be no crying on my shoulders. Loose my number and don't ever call me again. If you have a moral code you stick to it. Then when you tell the husband anonymously, she would have known it was her (that's if she hasn't told others.) There is no friendship. She is not the person that Seren thought she was. Seren has front row seat. She is now a witness. I really don't like that you're implying that Seren did this out of spite. You're trying to make her look like a manipulative person and enjoying the drama (front seat?? Come on Emme..) that you think she created. Only thing that counts now is finally the husband knows the truth and can now make a decision about his marriage. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
woinlove Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 The one thing that has jumped out of all this is her saying that if it had been he having the A, then she wouldn't forgive me if I hadn't told her and so can forgive what I have done. It is good that your friend is able to recognize this. For the few here who say you should not have revealed the truth, I do wonder if they have ever been in a similar situation. I recall thinking for a minute what it would be like to look my friend in the eye again if I kept the secret. I knew I couldn't do it. I think it is always a bad situation all round - affairs are like that - but I do think when one chooses honesty and openness with one's friends, there is more likely to be a better long-term outcome and one at least knows that one's actions aligned with one's values (for those who value honesty/openness). 3 Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenixRise Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 It is clear? I know exactly what I am talking about. She may want to feel like she did good, but she broke a trust just like the person she busted did. Actually she didn't. Her friend asked her to lie for her. She told her straight out that she wouldn't. AND she also told her friend that she WAS INDEED going to tell the husband. There was no promise broken nor was there ever any agreement to keep the secret. Seren you did the right thing and unfortunately you are paying a price for that. Losing a friend who has been in your life for so long is no small thing. I hope that your friend will one day realize how lucky she is to have you in her life. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenixRise Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I agree with Realist. The hypocrisy is breathtaking. You took your fBFF's confidence (and that's all the proof you had of the A? just a conversation you had with her??) and turned it against her. You don't know what their M is like, seren. It's not your call, and it's not up to you to impose your own moral values on others, no matter how tight you are with them. Not everybody sees it the same way as you. It wasn't your M to mess with. OR Her friend presumed upon the friendship and asked Seren to provide her with an alibi to use on the husband. Something she knew was against Seren's moral code. Whatever you do in life good or bad there are consequences. Seren did the right thing and is dealing with the consequences. The friend did the wrong thing and is dealing with the consequences. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenixRise Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I'm trying to figure out why you interjected in your ex-friends marriage. You could have chosen a more less destructive route and you didn't. A friend would have given her time to realize her mistake and even helped her to see her wrong doing. An ultimatum means nothing to an addict. If your moral code did not comply with her actions. You end the friendship. You don't listen to juicy details. The instant she asked you to be involved you should have ended ties with her. That's what you should have done. If you felt you couldn't live a waking moment without her husband knowing the truth, fine. You could have chosen to tell him anonymously. You didn't choose that route. Why. The extra credit was not needed. You don't get to play puppet master or god with someone's life and walk away. None of us do. In my opinion you handle the situation the wrong way. That's why you feel the way you do. As a friend you should always be there to help, guide and support, not destroy. You are to blame for their marriage ending. Own it. Priceless. Unbelievable. So the friend Actually having an affair is not to blame for the marriage ending? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
frozensprouts Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 for goodness sake...seren saw a friend was in trouble, and she did what she could to help him... i don't understand the people who are chiding her for doing something wrong...it's like saying that one should look the other way when they know something is wrong...i don't understand this viewpoint seren didn't gossip about her friend's cheating, she didn't tell anyone else. she only told the person who was affected by it, and then he made the choice about what he was going to do. it's not her fault if the marriage ends...it's the fault of the cheating spouse it's often said ( about blaming other men/women)that the blame for a marriage ending only falls on the spouses...if that's the case with respect to other men/women, then surely it applies to seren every bit as much, if not more. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author seren Posted June 25, 2012 Author Share Posted June 25, 2012 Emme, I have read what you have written and no, the marriage is not ending and no, I have not, as it happens lost the friendship of a lifelong friend and no, I don't get off on drama nor did I listen to 'juicy' details. This is so far off the mark you may as well be speaking about a different situation, maybe you are. Bottom line is I have two very good friends, one whom was hurting the other and used me to continue doing so, the ultimatum was not a 'do it now' conversation, no matter how you might think it happened. It is very ironic that the person I 'outed' understands why and we are still friends, I cannot imagine the alternative, to be asked if my friend had some disease and was hiding from her H and family to spare them, and then to ask if there was someone else when it was obvious that something was not right and before you say it I said have you asked her and she said nothing was wrong and to watch another dear friend tear himself up with worry, blame himself and all the rest of it, I don't know what else there was to do and no, I do not expect some to understand and while I read their comments, they just aren't applicable to this situation. If anyone wants to do something that is going to hurt another I refuse to be an enabler, that I was dragged into the middle of it meant that I had a choice, to shut up or to give my friend a choice, end, tell, leave or I would. I wish I had, had the choice to know, not know and be left out of the whole dammed mess, but I didn't. My friend knows me better than anyone else and she should have known and as it happens says that deep down she did know, that I would not lie, especially to enable an A. Her H and family, while naturally upset, are just glad that she isn't ill and hiding things from him, which is dammed sad. I think they will be OK eventually. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
Spark1111 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Anyone who is my friend would have never asked me to lie and cover for them, ever. If they did, they must be out of their mind, especially knowing what it took for my H and I to overcome infidelity. I would have told, and never anonymously, after a reasonable amount of time to end it. I would have then counselled confession and MC. Any friend of mine knows and respects my moral code. I would also tell you if your child is doing drugs or driving drunk. Seren, I salute you. And your friend, if she values you, your honesty and your integrity will hopefully one day in the future, value the friendship once again too. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
tobeornottobe Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I'm trying to figure out why you interjected in your ex-friends marriage. You could have chosen a more less destructive route and you didn't. A friend would have given her time to realize her mistake and even helped her to see her wrong doing. An ultimatum means nothing to an addict. If your moral code did not comply with her actions. You end the friendship. You don't listen to juicy details. The instant she asked you to be involved you should have ended ties with her. That's what you should have done. If you felt you couldn't live a waking moment without her husband knowing the truth, fine. You could have chosen to tell him anonymously. You didn't choose that route. Why. The extra credit was not needed. You don't get to play puppet master or god with someone's life and walk away. None of us do. In my opinion you handle the situation the wrong way. That's why you feel the way you do. As a friend you should always be there to help, guide and support, not destroy. You are to blame for their marriage ending. Own it. Priceless. I'm with Realist and Emme on this one. Your friend lost direction. She confided in you, some sort of a SOS. You disappointed her in her darkest hour when she needed you most. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
freestyle Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I'm with Realist and Emme on this one. Your friend lost direction. She confided in you, some sort of a SOS. You disappointed her in her darkest hour when she needed you most. She bragged about having an affair "just for fun"---and used Seren as an alibi, WITHOUT her permission. THAT's why she told Seren about the affair---it was about covering her butt. She also showed no regard for the position she put Seren in -- without her permission..... So, IMO--it's kind of absurd to paint her as the victim. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
mercy Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Seren, in all of this your friends lowest point was asking you to lie for her. The greatest gift you gave your friend was refusing. Just open your arms and be there for her. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Furious Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I'm with Realist and Emme on this one. Your friend lost direction. She confided in you, some sort of a SOS. You disappointed her in her darkest hour when she needed you most. Her friend only confided in her, not because it was her "darkest hour", but because she wanted to enlist Seren as an alibi and co-conspirator. Link to post Share on other sites
nofool4u Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I feel like crap, I feel like I have stuck my nose in someone else's business, and I have. No, she MADE it your business when she told you all giddy like a little schoolgirl. I think you'd feel more like crap if you didn't give this husband the information about his so-called wife that he deserved to have, and then had to be around them socially and look him in the face as if nothing is wrong. You did the right thing, and shouldn't want to be associated with a cheating huss anyway. You just made the decision to be friends with a better class of people. Link to post Share on other sites
tobeornottobe Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 And another Emme, you keep telling Seren to own it, which is ridiculous. What does she have to own? You keep talking like she created this mess......Seren didn't. It's all on her friend who cheated on her husband.When she decided to tell the H, she made it 'her business'. And when you have made it your business, you have to own it. I have noticed that many members on this forum project their own issues and hurt when responding, mostly female. I'm sure 90% of all those who rallied around the OP are female. People like Emme and Realist have a definite unbiased objectiveness to their posts. Before you get on your high horse: The transgressor in this case, is going through tremendous psychological and emotional issues, so is her husband. Here is my question: IF THE TRANSGRESSOR WENT TO SEE A PERSON I.E. A LIFE COACH OR COUNSELOR, WOULD THEY HAVE GIVEN HER AN ULTIMATUM AND TOLD THE H? Definitely not. In her time of confusion, she turned to her best friend, who, as stated by the OP herself, assisted her as a friend with other past issues. What her friend did by cheating was wrong, but the OP had no right to tell the H. Full stop. It was not her business. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja'sHusband Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 When she decided to tell the H, she made it 'her business'. And when you have made it your business, you have to own it. I have noticed that many members on this forum project their own issues and hurt when responding, mostly female. I'm sure 90% of all those who rallied around the OP are female. People like Emme and Realist have a definite unbiased objectiveness to their posts. Before you get on your high horse: The transgressor in this case, is going through tremendous psychological and emotional issues, so is her husband. Here is my question: IF THE TRANSGRESSOR WENT TO SEE A PERSON I.E. A LIFE COACH OR COUNSELOR, WOULD THEY HAVE GIVEN HER AN ULTIMATUM AND TOLD THE H? Definitely not. In her time of confusion, she turned to her best friend, who, as stated by the OP herself, assisted her as a friend with other past issues. What her friend did by cheating was wrong, but the OP had no right to tell the H. Full stop. It was not her business. I'm a male. When her friend asked her to lie for her she made it Seren's business and a possible accomplice. Seren did the right thing by telling her friends H that their house was on fire and needed immediate help before it burned down. Again what if her BFF got pregnant? even if not the H was clearly alarmed and worried about the marriage because if I read right, he actually asked if there was cheating going on. You might call what she did an ultimatum but it's better than backstabbing her and telling without warning. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
tobeornottobe Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 She only "needed" Seren to be her cover for her so she could bang her boyfriend. Her cheating friend wasn't confused, she knew EXACTLY what she was doing. Not necessarily so. The fact that she asked her friend to cover up doesn't mean she wanted to 'use' her friend. It was stupid of her to ask her friend to do so, but it shows two things: How illogical she was thinking and how much she trusted her friend to ask her to cover up. She was not acting rational, NO ONE in a similar situation think rational - they need help. The OP should have considered different ways of helping her. Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja'sHusband Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Not necessarily so. The fact that she asked her friend to cover up doesn't mean she wanted to 'use' her friend. It was stupid of her to ask her friend to do so, but it shows two things: How illogical she was thinking and how much she trusted her friend to ask her to cover up. She was not acting rational, NO ONE in a similar situation think rational - they need help. The OP should have considered different ways of helping her. I absolute RESENT the friend of my WW's who did not tell me and who knew of the A. Another point, most of the people backing Seren are.....BSs. BSs opinions are the ones that really count in this situation, not the WS, not bystanders...BSs are the ones who know the pain, found out what they needed, have soulsearched this more than anyone. I'm a BS, I absolutely would have wanted to be told. I didn't know that before I became a BS. I bet most BSs here would say the same. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
freestyle Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) Not necessarily so. The fact that she asked her friend to cover up doesn't mean she wanted to 'use' her friend. It was stupid of her to ask her friend to do so, but it shows two things: How illogical she was thinking and how much she trusted her friend to ask her to cover up. She was not acting rational, NO ONE in a similar situation think rational - they need help. The OP should have considered different ways of helping her. She already had used Seren as an alibi, without her knowledge, and without her permission. Perhaps you missed that part. That's the reason she told Seren---she'd already been forced into the role of being an accomplice to something she found abhorrent. If one of my friends did that to me---I would read him/her The Riot Act. Edited June 25, 2012 by freestyle 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja'sHusband Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 And you know she did not think about other ways. It is a "f" uped position. I am sure she thought of all avenues and agonized over her decision. To assume it was easy and she didn't consider anything else is foolish at best. Exactly, and I did the same for when I told who I did. My in laws speak of me having "impulse control". There's documentation on this very forum for how much I agonized and pondered what the right thing was to do. It was horrible and exhausting. My MIL thinks I had no right to tell the OMW...bah...if she only knew what I had been through because of her daughter's actions... She barely talks to me so she still doesn't even know that I gave OM full opportunity to tell himself. He wasn't going to do it. I was extremely nervous as to whether I did the right thing at the time but now I am sure. It's taken months and months but I finally understand it was the right thing to do. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 When she decided to tell the H, she made it 'her business'. And when you have made it your business, you have to own it. She has owned this, she isn't being passive about or anything along those lines. I really don't understand why you and a few others keep saying she isn't owning her decision. I have noticed that many members on this forum project their own issues and hurt when responding, mostly female. I'm sure 90% of all those who rallied around the OP are female. I've seen plenty of men do the same thing, it isn't gender based. Maybe but probably because there are more women on LS than men overall. People like Emme and Realist have a definite unbiased objectiveness to their posts. Before you get on your high horse: The transgressor in this case, is going through tremendous psychological and emotional issues, so is her husband. Here is my question: Are you kidding me? IF THE TRANSGRESSOR WENT TO SEE A PERSON I.E. A LIFE COACH OR COUNSELOR, WOULD THEY HAVE GIVEN HER AN ULTIMATUM AND TOLD THE H? Definitely not. In her time of confusion, she turned to her best friend, who, as stated by the OP herself, assisted her as a friend with other past issues. What her friend did by cheating was wrong, but the OP had no right to tell the H. Full stop. It was not her business. Actually her friend should have realized that talking to Seren would be wrong seeing as Seren's H cheated on her and they survived infidelity. Talk about inconsiderate. This friend was there for Seren and knew what she went through, so why on earth would that same friend ask Seren to be her cover and lie for her knowing full well the pain that infidelity caused her friend. To me, that's bad. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 She already had used Seren as an alibi, without her knowledge, and without her permission. Perhaps you missed that part. That's the reason she told Seren---she'd already been forced into the role of being an accomplice to something she found abhorrent. If one of my friends did that to me---I would read him/her The Riot Act. If a close and good friend did that to me, they wouldn't be my friend anymore, at least not as close as once before. It would take me a long time to trust them again. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Ninja'sHusband Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 To me these are the most important things on whether Seren did the right thing or not. .. her H asked if I knew if there was anything wrong, he asked if she was ill and was hiding from him and also if she had anyone else as she had been weird the past few days and I told him. ... He ASKED her. Was she supposed to straight up lie to his face? He OBVIOUSLY WANTED TO KNOW! ... It is very ironic that the person I 'outed' understands why and we are still friends, ... Even her friend undestands...as far as I concerned...case closed. These 2 people's opinions are the ones that matter the most. Especially the BH. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Even her friend understands... Yes and all the 'discussion' now is a mute point since Seren's friend gets why she told. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Exactly' date=' and I did the same for when I told who I did. My in laws speak of me having "impulse control". There's documentation on this very forum for how much I agonized and pondered what the right thing was to do. It was horrible and exhausting. My MIL thinks I had no right to tell the OMW...bah...if she only knew what I had been through because of her daughter's actions... She barely talks to me so she still doesn't even know that I gave OM full opportunity to tell himself. He wasn't going to do it. I was extremely nervous as to whether I did the right thing at the time but now I am sure. It's taken months and months but I finally understand it was the right thing to do.[/quote'] NH - many of your prior posts indicate that your MIL supports the cheater. Your FIL - on the other hand - is a good voice of reasoning. Makes me wonder every time you post about their positions IF your MIL may have cheated in her past... Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts