Why are we here ?

[M30USA]

If it made sense and was testable\verifiyable then yes.

 

Then read the book I cited. It's verifiable.

[wuggle]

Where? I believe in what we call the UFO phenomenon.

 

I am not interested in aliens.

[M30USA]

I am not interested in aliens.

 

AHA!

 

Aliens = angels.

 

You're being lied to. Do some research and you might be shocked.

[wuggle]

AHA!

 

Aliens = angels.

 

You're being lied to. Do some research and you might be shocked.

 

Nonsensical speculation, equating an unprovable to an unprovable.

 

I have read many books on ufos in my youth and found no concrete evidence for their existence. I am no longer interested in aliens. I guess that if they exist they may be searching for the same answers I am.

 

Can I assume from your failure to answer my question about WHY you believe as you do, that you do not intend answering it ? Just so I don't waste any more time asking you.

[M30USA]

Nonsensical speculation, equating an unprovable to an unprovable.

 

I have read many books on ufos in my youth and found no concrete evidence for their existence. I am no longer interested in aliens. I guess that if they exist they may be searching for the same answers I am.

 

Can I assume from your failure to answer my question about WHY you believe as you do, that you do not intend answering it ? Just so I don't waste any more time asking you.

 

You are wrong. At the current time, it has been PROVEN that UFOs are real--and, more importantly, that while 95% of them are explainable by natural or manmade phenomenon, there are ~5% which are PROVEABLY (through radar, etc) not manmade or natural phenomenon.

 

Did you know, for example, these facts?

1) The white house has a yearly press conference at the National Press Club with a litany of eyewitness experts who support the existence of UFOs through radar, ground imprints, Geiger counter radiation records, photographs, personal touching of, etc.

2) Manhattan Institute of Technology (MIT) has held professorial conferences about UFO abduction. They realize the evidence is massive AND consistent--yet they don't know how to explain it.

[pureinheart]

But this is a problem to me. I am an intelligent guy, my brain, no matter how comforting it would be, cannot ignore the inconsistencies in the god hypothesis. I can find no evidence at all for his existence.

 

If I can't get an answer from god or man and have to rely on myself, that would imply that there is, as queried earlier, no objective reality and all my existence is subjective, and all the meaning of life to be created by myself.

 

If there is no objective reality, then everything I do is meaningless, I could decide to be 'bad' or 'good' and it would make no difference either way.

 

but that feels wrong. It does 'feel' as if life has some meaning. But what is it ?

 

I do have one suggestion, and it may not be palatable to you, although ask God to reveal Himself to you, to give you the answers you seek. He knows the heart and I believe He will honor this request. You really have nothing to loose and everything to gain.

 

As you see on this board in particular, those who have made decisions and are firm in them. For me, I was where you are at right now prior to age 27. There was this disconnect, meaning if I bought the facts, or liked the teaching my heart wasn't connecting and I was left still questioning. I think that logic and heart go hand in hand.

[M30USA]

In continuation of my last post, here are some presentations by highly credentialed researchers:

 

ET/UFO Disclosure | Richard Dolan | The UFO Cover-Up in 10 Minutes | January 27, 2011 - YouTube

 

Dr.Chuck Missler - Return of the Nephilim, Alien Existence, and Compatibility with Religion - Part 1 - YouTube

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy2vczUibjo

 

Edited June 24, 2012 by M30USA

[wuggle]

..At the current time, it has been PROVEN that UFOs are real

 

I am not interested in aliens. I will assume from your attempts to take the thread off topic, and your unwillingness to answer my question about WHY you believe as you do that our discussion is at an end. Thankyou anyway.

 

I do have one suggestion, and it may not be palatable to you, although ask God to reveal Himself to you, to give you the answers you seek. He knows the heart and I believe He will honor this request. You really have nothing to loose and everything to gain.

 

I did repeatedly when I believed in him in my youth, I doubt he will reveal undeniable proof of his existence now that I can't, a certainty one way or another would be nice though.

[M30USA]

Wuggle,

 

You said you want evidence for the existence of angels (ie, Satan).

 

I said that the evidence can be found in the UFO phenomenon.

 

You said you don't believe in aliens.

 

I said, neither do I, but aliens are angels, so look at the UFO phenomenon.

 

You said no, thereby ignoring the evidence I suggested.

[florence of suburbia]

I've come to think more and more of "why?" as a question that will just lead you in circles.

 

But if you must ask why we're here, I think it's to keep each other company.

[Lobouspo]

Wuggle

Read "The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel"

[BetheButterfly]

I was raised a catholic, but when I grew up I was unhappy with the beliefs 'passed down' to me by my parents. I have investigated other religions and found what appear to me to be 'snippets' of wisdom in many religions\world views, but 'common sense' and logic tells me there is no God.

 

I am interested in people's views on the ultimate question "why are we here ?".

 

I believe we are here to be loved by God and to love God, to enjoy life, to help others, to be hopefully good stewards of the earth, and to learn.

 

 

I don't mind what persuasion\religion you are, I am not interested in being converted to one belief system or the other, just interested in the 'summation' of your belief system.

 

Respected and understood

 

what does your life mean ?

 

I didn't create myself or choose my parents, place I was born, and so on. However, to me, my life means the choices that I make and what I learn/enjoy in life, as well as what goals I want to achieve. My first goal is to glorify God, and I believe how I do that is follow the 2 commandments Jesus quoted, loving God and loving others. (Matthew 22:37-40)

 

what will happen when you die?

 

I believe I will go to Heaven, by God's grace.

Is it to glorify god ?, to procreate the species, to evolve the species\society,

 

I believe life is for all of the above.

 

is it all 100% meaningless, an accident ?

 

I don't believe so.

 

I ask this question in the spirit of discussion and debate, and ask for civility and respect of other people's beliefs, but would also ask that if you have a belief that you explain why you hold this opinion, what led you to this belief ?

 

Thanks so much for your civility and respect. I believe this because of my personal experiences, because of the joy and peace I have through my belief.

 

I am often frustrated by the answer that 'religious' people give to this question, so would ask that they think a little before just giving the 'stock' 'faith' answer. Why should I have 'faith' in a God that I can find no 'evidence' for ?

 

I don't think someone "should" have faith in God, not unless they have personal experience with God or want to. Faith in God is a personal choice and should be based on personal experience, not on requirements other people place on others.

 

Likewise for the athiests amongst us, why does there seem to be a 'law' or 'pattern' or 'sense' to life, if our only purpose is to pass on our genes ? and if the 'start' of everything was the 'big bang', what created this ?

 

Good questions. Thanks for the interesting topic!

[Crusoe]

With daydreams and images

I have covered many pages,

Both of my life and of the book,

This since my youth I undertook.

 

My example do not follow

As it's filled with errors hollow,

Persuing throughout the darkness

The spectral dream of life so bliss.

 

Lacking both learning and maxims,

Fantasy without form, just whims,

In wandered lost, Oh! then it came:

Thoughts are obscure and verses lame.

 

And ideals, simply inbred,

That palpitate inside my head,

I've embellished them with dressings,

Such opulent, frivolous things.

 

All mediocre semblances

Of the Egyptian pyramids:

A tomb of stone in mountainside

With icons, antiques of time died,

 

In corridors the Sphinx reflects

Great monoliths and ancient wrecks,

Makes you think that beyond the gates

There a whole land dead awaits.

 

You go in, up the stairs you're drawn

You know not what awaits beyond.

Alone with dim candlelight nigh

Does one King in a coffin lie.

[wuggle]

I've come to think more and more of "why?" as a question that will just lead you in circles.

 

That's sort of where I am at, I can find no evidence for god, so am an athiest, but am frustrated by the 'aim' of evolution (and I know dawkins would kick me for that!), any system\species that evolves must be evolving towards something, which does to me imply some sort of objective purpose, but as others here seem to point out, all the evidence points to a purely subjetcive existence.

 

Wuggle

Read "The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel"

 

Thank you for the recomendation, I will add it to my 'list of books to read'

 

I believe life is for all of the above.

 

Do you belive in a God AND an evolutionary tract ? if so wouldn't the end point of evolution potentially be that we become god ?

 

Thank you all for your replies.

[BetheButterfly]

 

Do you belive in a God AND an evolutionary tract ? if so wouldn't the end point of evolution potentially be that we become god ?

 

Thank you all for your replies.

 

I believe God definitely uses micro-evolution. There is a verse in the Tanakh that's really cool...

 

Psalms Chapter 90

"1 A Prayer of Moses the man of G-d. L-rd, Thou hast been our dwelling-place in all generations.

2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever Thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, Thou art G-d.

3 Thou turnest man to contrition; and sayest: 'Return, ye children of men.'

4 For a thousand years in Thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night."

 

One thing that is important to point out though that neither the Tanakh nor the Christian Bible are science books. They are more historic accounts, written by people of long time ago.

 

I do not believe that the end point is for us to become gods no. It would be very interesting however if someday people could manipulate time, as in going back in time, or could even teleport themselves to other locations without the hassle of airplanes/vehicles. That would be awesome!!!

 

God, by the way, is not limited to time or space, like us mere mortals.

 

Good questions Thanks for your politeness and kindness. Appreciated

[hk_1]

I will try to answer as briefly as possible so that we do not get confused.

Here is my analysis,

 

The real important things that matter in life are felt (CANNOT BE TOUCHED) for example Happiness, Love, Sex, Intelligence, Power, Fear, Sadness.

 

We all tend to think there is no God because we do not have time to feel

his presence; we have made ourselves so busy and surrounded with our own created material world. But that doesn't mean that there is no God. Feel him, pray from him, give him time, he is everywhere.

 

The roots of today's systematic modern democracies come out of the soil of religions. Ignoring this fact means we do not want to face the facts.

 

 

 

 

 

"Its better to believe in God die and find that there is none

rather then not believing in God die and find there is one"

[Tres]

I am interested in people's views on the ultimate question "why are we here ?".

 

Nobody knows why we are here and nobody will ever know why.

But, everybody is totally free to choose what to belief in.

Also, everyone is totally free to choose any meaning of his/her life (

to glorify God, to procreate the species, to do both or to do neither, to belief in their own meaningless, to make money, and many other options.)

 

Why should I have 'faith' in a God that I can find no 'evidence' for ?

 

It is your free will to make your choice. If there were any rational evidence, there would be no choice and no free will.

[thatone]

I will try to answer as briefly as possible so that we do not get confused.

Here is my analysis,

 

The real important things that matter in life are felt (CANNOT BE TOUCHED) for example Happiness, Love, Sex, Intelligence, Power, Fear, Sadness.

 

We all tend to think there is no God because we do not have time to feel

his presence; we have made ourselves so busy and surrounded with our own created material world. But that doesn't mean that there is no God. Feel him, pray from him, give him time, he is everywhere.

 

The roots of today's systematic modern democracies come out of the soil of religions. Ignoring this fact means we do not want to face the facts.

 

 

 

 

 

"Its better to believe in God die and find that there is none

rather then not believing in God die and find there is one"

 

no, they don't. the enlightenment was the first period in the world's history in which western societies rejected the church and all of the corruption it espoused, and demanded secular governments. the church brought this upon themselves by persecuting scientists and anyone else who might find information that could harm them, the culmination of civil unrest at royal/church oppression was the french revolution, which was just as much a rebellion against the catholic church as it was the monarchy.

 

that's what our country came from.

 

Enlightenment (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

 

just because a certain percentage of the western population looks favorably on the oppression of the church doesn't mean we will ever return to it, we owe our entire modern existence to a rejection of it.

Edited June 29, 2012 by thatone

[M30USA]

Only God knows why we are here because it's HIS world, not ours. Even the Bible doesn't explain fully why we are here. It serves the purpose of bringing us to salvation, yet it doesn't answer the heaviest questions.

[wuggle]

..Nobody knows why we are here and nobody will ever know why.

 

This I respectfully (and hopefully) disagree with. Given the tangental, accelerated rate of mankinds learning, I think (hope) that in a few hundred\thousand years we will know all. Hopefully.

 

..we owe our entire modern existence to a rejection of it.

 

Again respectfully, I must say I disagree. IMO we owe MUCH of our modern scientific existence to an embattled victory over the ignorance of our 'youth'. Maybe society would have been much more advanced if it had abandoned religion earlier, maybe not. I have always seen religion as an essential part of mankinds 'childhood' (no disrepect intended). I Think as Mankind grows and understands more, the apparent mysteries around us do not 'Need' a god to explain them.

 

 

Only God knows why we are here because it's HIS world, not ours.

 

Again, see previous comment, I disagree with this. I do not believe in the traditional view of god, I do not believe that your god created this world. I do hope mankind will one day understand ALL the mysteries around him, I have no idea what we will do when we do know all, probably just go to the pub for a pint.

 

Again, thanks for the comments.

[fortyninethousand322]

This I respectfully (and hopefully) disagree with. Given the tangental, accelerated rate of mankinds learning, I think (hope) that in a few hundred\thousand years we will know all. Hopefully.

 

If this ever happened I think it would be a sad sad way to be. History would effectively be over.

[wuggle]

If this ever happened I think it would be a sad sad way to be. History would effectively be over.

 

No, again I think I disagree. When we as a species actually understand more fully how and why we came to be, I think this might actually be the start of a fantastic 'jump-start' to our evolution.

 

There was a play with Christopher Eccleston a few years ago (I think it was called 'second coming') which postulated what would happen when mankind 'kills' (metaphorically) God. When we no longer need to cling to the belief in a 'god' it would possibly force us to accept (as a species) full responsibility for our future.

 

Maybe then we would grow up properly. Maybe then we could stop being nasty and wasteful and accept that we are all inter-related, meybe then, money would become irrelevant, maybe we would stop trying to 'be better' than our neighbour, Maybe then we would stop 'turning a blind eye' to what we 'know' is wrong because we are scared.

 

Maybe? I don't know. But still I am hopeful, even though I won't be here to see it.

[fortyninethousand322]

No, again I think I disagree. When we as a species actually understand more fully how and why we came to be, I think this might actually be the start of a fantastic 'jump-start' to our evolution.

 

There was a play with Christopher Eccleston a few years ago (I think it was called 'second coming') which postulated what would happen when mankind 'kills' (metaphorically) God. When we no longer need to cling to the belief in a 'god' it would possibly force us to accept (as a species) full responsibility for our future.

 

Maybe then we would grow up properly. Maybe then we could stop being nasty and wasteful and accept that we are all inter-related, meybe then, money would become irrelevant, maybe we would stop trying to 'be better' than our neighbour, Maybe then we would stop 'turning a blind eye' to what we 'know' is wrong because we are scared.

 

Maybe? I don't know. But still I am hopeful, even though I won't be here to see it.

 

But if we knew "everything" there would be nothing left to discover. No new technology to pursue, nothing to work towards, no great insight left to learn about. Life would be very strange.

[Tres]

No, again I think I disagree. When we as a species actually understand more fully how and why we came to be, I think this might actually be the start of a fantastic 'jump-start' to our evolution.

 

what would happen when mankind 'kills' (metaphorically) God. When we no longer need to cling to the belief in a 'god' it would possibly force us to accept (as a species) full responsibility for our future.

 

 

IMO, Believing in God has a deeper meaning than just a declaration of your beliefs. If you have read the New Testament, you might know that the important point is to become spiritually perfect human beings. When you say we no longer need to cling to the belief in God, you say we no longer need to love each other unconditionally. The idea of unconditional love is on the top of everything because there is nothing more perfect than the ability to love God and each other unconditionally. Any other idea of love is step down to the Old Testament or to atheism or to smth else.

 

IMO, The New Testament is about loving each other and about loving God.

It is about the evolution on the spiritual level.

But, understanding the concept of God is similar issue as understanding the concept of why we are here. They are abstract beliefs with no detectable, material evidence/facts available.

[runner]

I was raised a catholic, but when I grew up I was unhappy with the beliefs 'passed down' to me by my parents. I have investigated other religions and found what appear to me to be 'snippets' of wisdom in many religions\world views, but 'common sense' and logic tells me there is no God.

 

I am interested in people's views on the ultimate question "why are we here ?".

 

to live. and yes, it really is that simple. anything more than those two words are mere excuses.

 

I don't mind what persuasion\religion you are, I am not interested in being converted to one belief system or the other, just interested in the 'summation' of your belief system.

 

Why are we here ? what does your life mean ? what will happen when you die?

 

a) there is no reason, nor should we need one. b) it means everything to me, but at the same time i welcome me eventual inexistence. c) we return to where we came from; ie, the universal atomic ocean

 

Is it to glorify god ?, to procreate the species, to evolve the species\society, is it all 100% meaningless, an accident ?

 

yes to all of the above.

 

I ask this question in the spirit of discussion and debate, and ask for civility and respect of other people's beliefs, but would also ask that if you have a belief that you explain why you hold this opinion, what led you to this belief ?

 

i believe in the universal order of things. what led me to this is simply opening my eyes, witnessing and appreciating the beauty around me. all of it.

 

I am often frustrated by the answer that 'religious' people give to this question, so would ask that they think a little before just giving the 'stock' 'faith' answer. Why should I have 'faith' in a God that I can find no 'evidence' for ?

 

faith isn't about 'scientific evidence'. altho there is a material aspect, religious faith is a personal conviction more than anything, whilst sharing that within a like-minded community.

 

bringing darwin, bacon and galileo into the church is pointless.

 

Likewise for the athiests amongst us, why does there seem to be a 'law' or 'pattern' or 'sense' to life, if our only purpose is to pass on our genes ? and if the 'start' of everything was the 'big bang', what created this ?

 

i'm not an atheist because that religion doesn't appeal to me. and yes, i called it a religion (complete with its own belief system). and since i'm not sure i agree with your basic assumptions here, i'll skip the question.