Why are we here ?

[wuggle]

That's my point; The Buddha quite explicitly advised us to not waste time on unanswerable questions.

 

He quite emphatically said, that time spent pursuing such a quest is both wasted and utterly frustrating.

 

And this summarises why I cannot accept the teachings of buddhism, despite a lot of decent common sense stuff in there. Who is to know that the question is unanswerable ? buddha ? why should I put blind trust in what he says over what the christians, muslims, jews etc say. I still have seen no proof that the question is unanswerable. I have likewise seen no proof that existance is completely subjective (or for completenesses sake that is isn't). I can therefore only go off what my brain tells me makes most sense, that it is not subjective.

 

And if the question is answerable then surely it is the most important question a person can ask.

[BetheButterfly]

That's my point; The Buddha quite explicitly advised us to not waste time on unanswerable questions.

 

He quite emphatically said, that time spent pursuing such a quest is both wasted and utterly frustrating.

 

There is nothing addressed within the Dharma/Dhamma and teachings of Buddhism, which encourages the study of, and spends time speculating on, matters and questions which cannot be answered.

 

If we, as Buddhists, have questions which cannot be answered it is we who are seeking unnecessarily and needlessly - not Buddhism that encourages us to do so.

 

I understand a bit better and respect what you believe.

 

However, as a believer in Jesus, I do believe it is fine to pursue the answers to questions some would think to be unanswerable. Jesus specifically said, "“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened." (Matthew 7:7-8)

 

Now, the above teaching of Jesus indirectly includes the power of positivity. Even when people do not find what they are searching for, many times they become satisfied with other things they find in their journey. In many cases, others find what those in the past sought but couldn't find for whatever reason, like in the cases of inventions/science.

 

One of the great examples of 2 people who sought for answers that at the time, were considered "unanswerable", were the Wright Brothers. Even though many people doubted that people could someday have flying machines, the Wright brothers did not let peoples' doubts deter them from studying the flight pattern of birds and experimenting in order to answer the questions they wanted answers to solve. These men, who were raised by Christian parents, went whole-heartedly after the answer to questions they were seeking. To them, their questions were not unanswerable.

 

As for the ideas about right and wrong, Jesus does teach that there are some things that are wrong, though he does not use the word "wrong". Rather, he talks about what defiles a person. He said, "But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.” (Matthew 15:18-20).

 

So, even though I respect your right to believe Buddha's teachings, I personally follow Jesus' teachings, which do show that it is fine to seek, even answers to "unanswerable" questions, and that right and wrong is not necessarily subjective.

 

It has been interesting though to read more about what Buddha said. What do you think are the primary teachings of Buddha? Thanks.

Edited July 5, 2012 by BetheButterfly

[TaraMaiden]

Aren't you violating Buddha's teachings by participating in this thread if what you've written above is true?

No, because i am here to help wuggle come to an understanding.

His question is:

"Why are we here?"

My answer is:

"It's pointless asking until you establish who you are, first."

 

One cannot 'violate' the Buddha's teachings because there are no orders, commands or rules.

Merely suggestions and advice.

How do you 'violate' suggestions and advice?

 

And this summarises why I cannot accept the teachings of buddhism, despite a lot of decent common sense stuff in there. Who is to know that the question is unanswerable ?

I gave you a list of the imponderable questions.

There are 4.

Other questions, with regard to them being worded in a similar vein, would also be imponderable. (Like, "is there a God?")

You have a comprehensive list of questions it's best to leave aside.

If you don't believe that - then by all means, keep asking.

When you eventually realise that you will never really reach a satisfactory conclusion, you will have discovered 'who is to know that the question is unanswerable?'

Answer - you are. When after all these years, you STILL have an imponderable that's driving you nuts.

 

buddha ? why should I put blind trust in what he says over what the christians, muslims, jews etc say.

The Buddha encourages nobody to ever have 'blind trust' in what he or anybody says, but he encourages those seeking, to find their own answers, and come to conclusions for themselves. You'd think after 20 years of asking, you'd get it by now that actually, his recommendation to give up asking the unanswerable is pretty spot-on.

However, if you choose to carry on trying to answer the unanswerable, be his guest.....

 

I still have seen no proof that the question is unanswerable.

On the contrary, of course you have! By virtue of the fact that you have been asking this for a long time, and have still yet to find an answer, this in fact should be ample proof that the question - why are we here - has no definitive, concrete, absolute, unarguable reply. In the meantime, you've been asking for decades. You have doubtless asked other questions which presumably HAVE been answered to your satisfaction....?

I have provided responses here - logical, sensible and practical answers. Yet you have chosen to reject them in favour of continuing to flog yourself silly.

Why would that be, may I ask?

Why is "I don't know the answer to this question" such a terrible thing to admit?

 

I have likewise seen no proof that existance is completely subjective (or for completenesses sake that is isn't). I can therefore only go off what my brain tells me makes most sense, that it is not subjective.

Sure, go ahead, knock yourself out....

 

And if the question is answerable then surely it is the most important question a person can ask.

Nope. the importance of a question is directly proportional to the time you spend answering it. The more time you waste trying to ponder the imponderable, the more damage you inflict on your own common sense.

What really matters is how constructive you make your life.

People rarely have funereal eulogies about how well they ran their business and what their turnover profit was, and whether they completed their tax returns.

Funereal eulogies focus on the effect of the person on their families, friends, neighbours and communities.

The question is not "Why are we here?" The question is "How can i make it a better time for others, while I'm here?"

The secret is not how much you work, the secret is how much you love.

 

I think we're circling around each other. I was specifically referring to Wuggle's notion of objective reasons for existence when you joined in. In short, all religions address the question of why we're here and what we should do with our lives, but none of them are objectively correct.

 

Does that help to clarify?

Yes, it does, but I repeat, with reference to the bolded sentence:

 

Buddhism does not reflect on this, anywhere.

 

Buddhism ACTIVELY discourages those interested, from asking such questions.

Buddhism puts nothing 'out there' - it brings it all back to 'in here'.

 

For all external questions, the answers lie introspectively. Period.

Edited July 16, 2012 by TaraMaiden

[TaraMaiden]

Oh god forbid! Ok, I'll quit, forget I banged on....!

 

Come on over for a cuppa and we'll just forget all about it.

 

do you like Lapsang Souchong?

 

 

 

 

(I hate it....!)

[wuggle]

...When you eventually realise that you will never really reach a satisfactory conclusion, you will have discovered 'who is to know that the question is unanswerable?'

Answer - you are. When after all these years, you STILL have an imponderable that's driving you nuts.

 

Sorry for delay in responding.

 

I am happy to accept that the answer is "this question is not answerable" - if and only if someone can prove it. Until then it seems to me to be the single most important question one can ask, and as I said, precursors "who am I" - (I think on that we are just going to have to agree to disagree ).

 

If you accept for a minute (just for arguments sake) that there is a reason for life and that all existence is NOT subjective. Then until a person (anyone\everyone) has the answer, then there is no way of knowing that they are not doing the exact opposite of what they are supposed to be doing. It would be possible to spend one's entire life doing something only to find out with your dying breath that you wasted every second doing totally the wrong thing.

 

If you cannot accept this, and state that all reality is subjective, then IMO this renders it totally meaningless. If any meaning to my existence is 'created' by me subjectivly and can be one thing or its complete opposite, then both polars and every point inbetween seem meaningless.

 

Even though the buddha said it is unanswerable, this is not good enough for me, he has presented no proof, may have been a decent bloke, and may sound like he might be right, but he has given no proof, so his 'answers' are no more valid that those of any other world view or religion.

 

My inability to find an answer after all thsi time is, likewise, not proof that the question is unanswerable, just that I am not clever enough to find it yet.

 

...Why is "I don't know the answer to this question" such a terrible thing to admit?

 

It's not, I would happily accept that as an answer if there was some proof, but to simply stop my search because others say the question in unaswerable is just giving up and giving in. To stop searching I need proof that the question is not answerable.

 

 

.Nope. the importance of a question is directly proportional to the time you spend answering it.

 

Totally disagree. The answer to a lifelong question can be nothing, the answer to a flippant one, lifechanging.

 

....The more time you waste trying to ponder the imponderable, the more damage you inflict on your own common sense.

What really matters is how constructive you make your life.

People rarely have funereal eulogies about how well they ran their business and what their turnover profit was, and whether they completed their tax returns.

Funereal eulogies focus on the effect of the person on their families, friends, neighbours and communities.

The question is not "Why are we here?" The question is "How can i make it a better time for others, while I'm here?"

The secret is not how much you work, the secret is how much you love.

 

Whilst this seems on the surface to make sense, and does appeal to a romantic sense of love\right\wrong, logic doesn't bear this out. If there is a meaning to life, then it COULD be that the real reason for a person to be here is to make as many enemies as they can, gather as much money and kill as many people as possible (hopefully not though..)

 

The logical situation if one believes in a purely subjective existence is even worse, in that world view good\bad\right\wrong\love\hate etc are all completely meaningless.

 

....Buddhism ACTIVELY discourages those interested, from asking such questions.

 

Again, as a person of a scientific mind, this is where I totally disagree with buddhism. In my world view, no question should not be asked, especially if it is just because the question is tough (or unanswerable). This is just as stunting as every other 'religion', that passes 'dogma' as proof.

 

...For all external questions, the answers lie introspectively. Period.

 

So a totally subjective experience ??, this I can't accept without proof, if only to counter the proof that all my senses are currently providing. I cannot (without proof) accept that I created this room, this laptop, this sofa etc. It just doesn't 'feel' right.