Monogamous Affair??

[Ducky23]

Reboot -- I understand the mechanics of a man's erection. And he is not the one who told me that he said this to her. She called me crying because she's "a big fat cow with nobody who loves me and now he FINALLY told me why he can't get hard!" He's told her for a few years that he thinks his testosterone is messed up. 99% of what I know about their sex life comes from W. Not MM. On the rare occasion that they did (do) have sex she would have to whine and complain for weeks on end before he would give in. And she constantly complains because "he didn't finish", or "I got off and tried to get him to switch positions and that was it, he rolled over and got up." All of the pictures he has (had?) saved on his phone were of me. Yes, I have seen this personally, I'm not just "taking his word" for it. He counted once about a month ago and 5 out of 41 were clothed. He always begged for pictures because they "reminded" him of "what was waiting", and also because he simply could not stay hard looking at her, he needed some "spank bank material" stored in his memory. That last bit did come from him, yes.

 

Trimmer -- I'm not a trusting person by any means. I did not blindly trust my MM, same as I do not blindly trust any person. I understand that part of the whole trust thing is that I have to believe that he's telling the truth. I have always focused more on his actions than his words. His actions have always matched his words. This is why I chose to trust and believe him.

And yes, I realized my misuse of the words "whole" and "except" in that post. I meant to say that I told her the reason I pushed for D between them was the things he said. To her and to me. That he isn't in love with her, what his plans were for leaving her, why he was still around. I told her that he (I didn't tell her "we", though it was we) had not "thought" about speaking to a divorce attorney, but had in fact already spoken to a divorce attorney. I tried to save her the heartache of him springing the D out of nowhere and never said a word about the A. She considers me her "closest" friend, and I carry a ton of guilt over that. I told her all that I did in hopes that perhaps she would open her eyes and see that her marriage is not, in fact, going to get any better. It didn't work.

 

I am not jealous of W. Rereading my posts I have found that I seem to still be defending him.. That's the part that gets me. I speak of the W as I have observed her. She honestly repulses me. And it has nothing to do with the A or MM. When we first started seeing each other he told me "she's a nice person..", and she is. She has a kind heart in most situations and I believe that she does as she honestly thinks is best. She is very much a moral person and only ever "truly" cheated on MM once, with his best friend, when he was in Basic. Before they ever got married. When she "cheated" with me, she was under the belief that she had his permission, and otherwise would not have. It has not happened since. It is the way she lives her life that causes me the most anger. MM is a very healthy person, he enjoys working out and eating healthy. She does not. I love cooking, but this woman has made me despise it while feeding her. Because cooking for all three of us requires that either I make two separate meals (one for me and MM and one for her), or that I only cook a very select few things (tacos and Chicken Fettucine Alfredo). Her views are so vastly different from my own about a lot of basic stuff (finances, children, ect.), and conversations about those things has ended in me walking away because of her absolute resolution that HER way is the right way and everyone else is wrong. Quite simply, her and I are very different people and it causes me a great deal of discomfort to be left alone with her and try to find something about which to conversate. I believe in the words "To each their own", and on my own terms, she is NOT a person I would ever choose to be friends with. I only befriended her because MM and I decided it would make the A much easier if we didn't have to worry about so much lying and hiding. And it was. We could see each other so much more without suspicion from her and "our" time was rarely monitored by her. Because we would "go different places" and she would never know that we were actually together more often than not. It meant not having to lie about where he was, who he was with, what he was doing. She accepted me as an odd sort of extension of their M and never questioned us about anything "inappropriate" because it was understood by her that I am more of a man than MM and he simply had yet to realize it.

[todreaminblue]

As you may know, I've recently gone NC with my MM and have been working to answer a million questions within myself, and am preparing for therapy. But this question has been bugging me and I honestly can't answer it. We were in an A. He and his W are still actively married, regardless of his feelings toward her/lack of sex/other issues. And I live with my sons dad, whom he always simply assumed I was sexually active with. But so many times he would tell me "x is cheating/why are you still talking to 'this' ex?/I don't want you being intimate with anyone else, no cuddling kissing or sex/I'm not comfortable with x action". He would tell me that he was okay with me having sex with my sons dad because he was there first and because he still had to, at times, have sex with his wife, but that bringing another man/woman into the equation would be enough for him to end the affair as I would be "cheating" and he would assume I had moved on to something bigger, better, whatever. Why?? What is the point? We absolutely treated it as an out and out R, not much hiding, ect. But it was still an AFFAIR! WTF is the difference?!

 

 

He needs the therapy more than you do ducky..........he is judgemental and not willing to accept his own actions.......i wonder what he would do if he found out his wife was cheating.....leave her, rant rave act all indignant feel betrayed....double standards..... he doesnt see others sides only his own....you look at it from many angles.....he needs to be able to see more shades than just black and white.....its a complex situation ....good luck ....deb....?

[Ducky23]

He needs the therapy more than you do ducky..........he is judgemental and not willing to accept his own actions.......i wonder what he would do if he found out his wife was cheating.....leave her, rant rave act all indignant feel betrayed....double standards..... he doesnt see others sides only his own....you look at it from many angles.....he needs to be able to see more shades than just black and white.....its a complex situation ....good luck ....deb....?

 

Todreaminblue.. First off, I've been reading quite a bit of your posts lately and I'd like to say to you personally that I admire your spirit. Thank you for sharing it.

Now, when he DID find out she cheated on him with his best friend while he was away in Basic, it was BEFORE they got married. He did cry, (W says it's the only time in their life together she ever saw him cry) and he did rant/rave/all of the above.

When she "cheated" on him with me, he did the whole "you cheated on me AGAIN! With my best friend AGAIN!" thing. She bought it, I didn't. I'm not that dumb. He kept turning away from her because he couldn't quite stop himself from smiling. Yes, he is evil. I get that. I have slowly started coming to terms with it. But still I love him. Dearly. No Contact is driving me absolutely mad. I've begun to feel.. lost again. My anger is gone. I only hurt.

[Trimmer]

I speak of the W as I have observed her. She honestly repulses me. And it has nothing to do with the A or MM. When we first started seeing each other he told me "she's a nice person..", and she is. She has a kind heart in most situations and I believe that she does as she honestly thinks is best. She is very much a moral person and only ever "truly" cheated on MM once, with his best friend, when he was in Basic. Before they ever got married. When she "cheated" with me, she was under the belief that she had his permission, and otherwise would not have. It has not happened since. It is the way she lives her life that causes me the most anger. MM is a very healthy person, he enjoys working out and eating healthy. She does not. I love cooking, but this woman has made me despise it while feeding her. Because cooking for all three of us requires that either I make two separate meals (one for me and MM and one for her), or that I only cook a very select few things (tacos and Chicken Fettucine Alfredo). Her views are so vastly different from my own about a lot of basic stuff (finances, children, ect.), and conversations about those things has ended in me walking away because of her absolute resolution that HER way is the right way and everyone else is wrong. Quite simply, her and I are very different people and it causes me a great deal of discomfort to be left alone with her and try to find something about which to conversate. I believe in the words "To each their own", and on my own terms, she is NOT a person I would ever choose to be friends with. I only befriended her because MM and I decided it would make the A much easier if we didn't have to worry about so much lying and hiding. And it was. We could see each other so much more without suspicion from her and "our" time was rarely monitored by her. Because we would "go different places" and she would never know that we were actually together more often than not. It meant not having to lie about where he was, who he was with, what he was doing. She accepted me as an odd sort of extension of their M and never questioned us about anything "inappropriate" because it was understood by her that I am more of a man than MM and he simply had yet to realize it.

 

Wow.... don't take this the wrong way (ha ha) but the coldness of your calculus is almost psychopathic. So you start out with him betraying her, and then in order to make your lives easier in the affair, so you don't have to go through as much difficulty to do all that hiding and make up all those other lies, you create this huge lie of your friendship with her instead - an intentional, active, coldly calculated deception, designed to manipulate her through her trust - and thus maneuver yourself into a position where you, too, become her betrayer.

 

Of course you need to see her as a weak, disgusting, pathetic animal. You wouldn't be able to stand to see her as a human being - I would imagine that to risk empathizing with her would be too much to bear.

[Ducky23]

Wow.... don't take this the wrong way (ha ha) but the coldness of your calculus is almost psychopathic. So you start out with him betraying her, and then in order to make your lives easier in the affair, so you don't have to go through as much difficulty to do all that hiding and make up all those other lies, you create this huge lie of your friendship with her instead - an intentional, active, coldly calculated deception, designed to manipulate her through her trust - and thus maneuver yourself into a position where you, too, become her betrayer.

 

Of course you need to see her as a weak, disgusting, pathetic animal. You wouldn't be able to stand to see her as a human being - I would imagine that to risk empathizing with her would be too much to bear.

 

I agree. Every move we made was with cold calculated precision. He is a soldier, two tours, 11 years in the service. I grew up horribly and did my fair share of having to actively decieve people in order to use them to get my needs/wants met. And I do have a hard time seeing (especially women) other people as humans. With feelings. Even when I told her all that I told her, I did not do it to hurt her, or to "steal" MM from her. I did it because I had gotten to a point in my rage that I could no longer keep it in. She whines and complains about the M so much that I just needed her to SHUT UP. Am I psychopathic? I have BPD, and have sometimes wondered if I'm not also Sociopathic (?) sometimes too, perhaps..? I don't know. I have spent my whole life learning to hate the world and never let anyone in. I believe that "strength" as I saw it when I began building the wall has ultimately become my greatest "weakness".

[todreaminblue]

Todreaminblue.. First off, I've been reading quite a bit of your posts lately and I'd like to say to you personally that I admire your spirit. Thank you for sharing it.

Now, when he DID find out she cheated on him with his best friend while he was away in Basic, it was BEFORE they got married. He did cry, (W says it's the only time in their life together she ever saw him cry) and he did rant/rave/all of the above.

When she "cheated" on him with me, he did the whole "you cheated on me AGAIN! With my best friend AGAIN!" thing. She bought it, I didn't. I'm not that dumb. He kept turning away from her because he couldn't quite stop himself from smiling. Yes, he is evil. I get that. I have slowly started coming to terms with it. But still I love him. Dearly. No Contact is driving me absolutely mad. I've begun to feel.. lost again. My anger is gone. I only hurt.

 

Thanks Ducky its sweet of you to admire me and read my spirit in words.....the feeling is mutual.....we live to battle on huh......I am not surprised he rants and raves and cries..i have my therapy driven intuition that guessed that one.....he sounds pretty immature......you are too evolved for him more self aware.... I dont know if he is evil......just childish....demanding.....tanty chucking non therapy going unaware of his actions and consequences of and add spoilt brat......It is impossible not to love a tanty chucking child or spoil them......

 

no contact with that immature person that you love? ......do you think that you are waiting for him to evolve..... to change.......to maybe learn.......we both know that people have the power to change.......immaturity is only a therapy resolution away.....you are a forgiving patient person who is hurting.....he has hurt you and you have to deal with his immaturity......too bad there is no medication for heart ache no quick fix.....but he will never have or be able to obtain what you can.....the ability to see the big picture and love someone deeply nor would he have the strength you have to battle to keep it alive

there may be no pill to take.....but heartache will fade.you know it will.

you DUCKY have faced bigger opponents.... keep rolling with the punches DUcky...your passion for life with love never will fade..and you can block the punches and next time you will block them before they land... huge hugses to ya with or without a koala .....deb

[frozensprouts]

I agree. Every move we made was with cold calculated precision. He is a soldier, two tours, 11 years in the service. I grew up horribly and did my fair share of having to actively decieve people in order to use them to get my needs/wants met. And I do have a hard time seeing (especially women) other people as humans. With feelings. Even when I told her all that I told her, I did not do it to hurt her, or to "steal" MM from her. I did it because I had gotten to a point in my rage that I could no longer keep it in. She whines and complains about the M so much that I just needed her to SHUT UP. Am I psychopathic? I have BPD, and have sometimes wondered if I'm not also Sociopathic (?) sometimes too, perhaps..? I don't know. I have spent my whole life learning to hate the world and never let anyone in. I believe that "strength" as I saw it when I began building the wall has ultimately become my greatest "weakness".

 

Ducky,

I'm sorry if I sound rude, but you are still blaming an awful lot of this whole situation on his wife...please think about that. Where do you feel your place and her husband's place lie in all of this? Is your pain her fault? is it his? is it yours?

 

reading your posts makes it sound like you don't just view other woman as somehow not human or people to look down on, but you almost seem to actively view them as your enemy, and therefore hurting them is acceptable. But it also sounds as if a pretty significant part of you doesn't believe that...you don't want to hurt anyone...you just want to be happy...

 

but it also sounds like you are really unhappy. And while I think that this guy is the top candidate for the jerk of the year award, is looking at him to explain your actions and choices going to make you happy in the long term? I would guess the answer is "no"...there will always be jerks out there, and perhaps it's better to examine your own behavior and choices so you don't make the same choice again, and end up being hurt all over

 

( again, sorry if I was rude)

[Ducky23]

Ducky,

I'm sorry if I sound rude, but you are still blaming an awful lot of this whole situation on his wife...please think about that. Where do you feel your place and her husband's place lie in all of this? Is your pain her fault? is it his? is it yours?

 

reading your posts makes it sound like you don't just view other woman as somehow not human or people to look down on, but you almost seem to actively view them as your enemy, and therefore hurting them is acceptable. But it also sounds as if a pretty significant part of you doesn't believe that...you don't want to hurt anyone...you just want to be happy...

 

but it also sounds like you are really unhappy. And while I think that this guy is the top candidate for the jerk of the year award, is looking at him to explain your actions and choices going to make you happy in the long term? I would guess the answer is "no"...there will always be jerks out there, and perhaps it's better to examine your own behavior and choices so you don't make the same choice again, and end up being hurt all over

 

( again, sorry if I was rude)

 

You made a really good point up there.. ^^^ Quite a few actually.. First off.. You're 100% correct in saying that I view women as the enemy. I always have. I learned from a very young age that women are catty, petty, gossiping wh0res who have no qualms with backstabbing someone they call a "friend". 99% of my friends throughout life have been male because of that belief. I have yet to meet more than two women in 23 years that did not meet or exceed those standards. I make it a point to avoid friendships with women at all costs.

Also, I don't put my pain on her. I know that I caused it by being the idiot who allowed myself to fall for MM. The pain she would go through if she found out about the A would rest solely on the shoulders of MM and myself. I am fully aware of all of that. But it doesn't keep me from hating her as a person. I actually gave her an honest opportunity to prove that she was more than what I originally thought. She failed. Her M to MM is the ONLY reason I ever had any contact with her and she mentioned it a few times. "I feel like the only reason you talk to me is so you can be friends with [MM]." I never copped to it, but it's absolutely true. There was once or twice where I accidentally let my guard down and she could see the disgust in my face. She knows how I feel about women. They are sex objects. If I cannot have sex with them, they are useless to me. Therefore I do not keep them around. And yes, I know that sounds absolutely horrible and it is. But it is the truth. There are two women in my life whom I've never had sex with who are simply platonic friends. One of them I call 'Ma' because she was very much like a mother to me when I had none. And one is an old friend from high school whom I've helped through a ton of rough spots. I am also her only female friend. I have been called a Womanizer for my views. I am not proud of it, but I don't know how to change it either.

I don't believe that the A was Ws fault. I'm not that delusional. Though sometimes I wish I were. No, I don't like hurting people. I simply don't know how to interact with people my own age/gender. So I push them away. I don't like hurting them, but it is what I do. I still don't know why. Sometimes I feel bad for W. But mostly it doesn't affect me. I would get mad at her because she would cry and whine and complain about their problems but would never do anything to try and fix it and would not leave. I have little patience for people who complain and do nothing to change their situation. At that point it becomes "oh look at me, I'm crying over (enter issue), but won't take the advice I just asked for, I just like you fawning over me." and that is a very horrible thing.

And don't worry about being rude. I believe I just did a better job at that than you did.

[frozensprouts]

sounds like you have had a very rough go of things in your life and you are very afraid of letting your guard down lest you get hurt again...

 

I can understand that...but isn't living your life in a constant "defensive mode" exhausting to you?

[Ducky23]

sounds like you have had a very rough go of things in your life and you are very afraid of letting your guard down lest you get hurt again...

 

I can understand that...but isn't living your life in a constant "defensive mode" exhausting to you?

 

I'd say yes. It was like.. 2 1/2 months ago, right before my birthday that I thought "wow! I'm not fighting to stay alive anymore! I can finally look forward to growing old!" every birthday was a milestone. Nobody expected me to live this long. They projected that onto me and I did my best to prove them right. 21 was the last one. It was like if I made it to 21, that was it. No more worrying. It took 2 years for it to sink in that I had lived past 21. And then it was like this great big weight was lifted. But it still doesn't seem real to me. I've been in this town with these people for 13+ years. My entire life has been spent being the person everyone else expected me to be. They told me I wouldn't live to be 16, I did everything but swallow a bullet to make that happen. I was a virgin until my mom told everyone I wasn't. I didn't start smoking until my mom told everyone I was stealing her cigarettes. Men have always treated me as a chew toy, a piece of meat meant to be pawed at and used. I wasn't supposed to have a personality or my own thoughts. That's where MM drew me in. He told me "yeah, the sex is fantastic, but there's more to you than that. I want you for so much more." it caused me to let my guard down around him. I didn't feel like I had to hide anything from him. I was free to be me, whoever I wanted, and he accepted me as I was. It was a freedom I'd never had in a R before, with anyone. Including my H. He would tease me about my mood swings sometimes (he called it "shift change"), but he did it lovingly. We teased each other relentlessly. But it was always done in good humor. Now, without him around, I feel like again I'm on-guard at all times. My thoughts and opinions are kept inside, where they belong. It's exhausting to say the least. But only when I think about it. It's second-nature to me to bottle things up and only show what people expect.

[frozensprouts]

you say that you have lived your life being hat everyone else expected you to be, and it sounds very much like you have done and been what others want...

 

but what do you want to be? What do you want for yourself? What do you think and feel for yourself ?

 

who are you? what do you want in/from life? how do you define yourself on your own with no input from anyone else?

 

for what it's worth, you sound like a fighter..which is good, but you have fought so long and so hard...now you deserve a rest and the chance to find out for yourself just who and what you are...

[Ducky23]

you say that you have lived your life being hat everyone else expected you to be, and it sounds very much like you have done and been what others want...

 

but what do you want to be? What do you want for yourself? What do you think and feel for yourself ?

 

who are you? what do you want in/from life? how do you define yourself on your own with no input from anyone else?

 

for what it's worth, you sound like a fighter..which is good, but you have fought so long and so hard...now you deserve a rest and the chance to find out for yourself just who and what you are...

 

I kind of just answered this in a post on my other thread, but I've always wanted to be a guardian angel, to sum it up. I have spent years helping people, helping children, protecting those who needed it, opening my home to those in need. I have a huge heart. It's my brain that's f***ed, honestly. I have used what I've learned in my life to help those younger and more vulnerable. I have always been called an "Old Soul". And I go back and forth between loving and hating the world. I hate that I cannot simply say "this is what I want/who I am/what my needs are" and be certain about it. Because it seems like it's always a war waging within myself over WHO I am, who I should be, what I want, ect.. I used to know the answers to all of those questions. Then a man stripped me of everything. Everything I knew and loved, all of my thoughts and opinions.. Now I second-guess everything. That man almost killed me more than once and given the chance he would have caused me to miscarry more than once. I keep hearing him in my head "you're an idiot", "you're weak and pathetic", "you're too emotional", "you're irrational", "you're so simple, look at you, you like that movie?!" he ruined all that was good in my life. Everything I enjoyed he had 100 reasons why it was stupid. Why I was stupid. I made it 10 months through university toward my Bachelors in Accounting and AA in Business Management. He forced me to quit. He made me feel so stupid. He stripped me of all of my confidence, everything that was me. I realized not long ago that if I had stuck with college and left him sooner, I would have my AA and be graduating with my Bachelor's Degree this year. I'm terrified of going back to college to realize those dreams. Because I still feel like an idiot. A fool. Weak and pathetic. Wow... I don't think I ever actually said that.. To anyone. I probably should.. I think I need to write more. This forum challenges me to think more and answer questions I've never asked or answered for myself. Thank you.

[frozensprouts]

I kind of just answered this in a post on my other thread, but I've always wanted to be a guardian angel, to sum it up. I have spent years helping people, helping children, protecting those who needed it, opening my home to those in need. I have a huge heart. It's my brain that's f***ed, honestly. I have used what I've learned in my life to help those younger and more vulnerable. I have always been called an "Old Soul". And I go back and forth between loving and hating the world. I hate that I cannot simply say "this is what I want/who I am/what my needs are" and be certain about it. Because it seems like it's always a war waging within myself over WHO I am, who I should be, what I want, ect.. I used to know the answers to all of those questions. Then a man stripped me of everything. Everything I knew and loved, all of my thoughts and opinions.. Now I second-guess everything. That man almost killed me more than once and given the chance he would have caused me to miscarry more than once. I keep hearing him in my head "you're an idiot", "you're weak and pathetic", "you're too emotional", "you're irrational", "you're so simple, look at you, you like that movie?!" he ruined all that was good in my life. Everything I enjoyed he had 100 reasons why it was stupid. Why I was stupid. I made it 10 months through university toward my Bachelors in Accounting and AA in Business Management. He forced me to quit. He made me feel so stupid. He stripped me of all of my confidence, everything that was me. I realized not long ago that if I had stuck with college and left him sooner, I would have my AA and be graduating with my Bachelor's Degree this year. I'm terrified of going back to college to realize those dreams. Because I still feel like an idiot. A fool. Weak and pathetic. Wow... I don't think I ever actually said that.. To anyone. I probably should.. I think I need to write more. This forum challenges me to think more and answer questions I've never asked or answered for myself. Thank you.

 

the guy who treated you that way, who stole your confidence in your self and your abilities sounds like a complete and utter tool. Don't let him define you any longer...

As for you being a weak and pathetic fool....I know that's him talking, but really...what have you done in your life that would make you weak, pathetic, a fool? From what you have written about yourself, it would seem to me that the answer is nothing. You've had a hard go f things, yet something in you allows you to just keep on going...does that sound like someone who is weak?

You started to school and it sounds like you were doing well...does that sound like someone who is a fool?

And you are certainly not pathetic...you fought back and got away from him...that sounds pretty strong to me

You may have made some mistakes ( who hasn't) but there's nothing aout you that makes you into what he tried to define you as...it sounds more like he's the one who was a weak, pathetic fool. He had to tear you down to build himself up, and now you're the one stuck paying for it.

 

It sounds like the "logical" part of you knows that what he said and tried to make you believe isn't true, but the emotional part is still bogged down , believing his words. I can tell you over and over that he's full of cr@p and his words weren't true, but you need to believe that on an emotional level too.

What steps can you take to show yourself that you are not who he tried to turn you into to?

One thing you mentioned was university...is there any way that you could swing going back, even if just a few credits, so that you can start showing the "emotional" part of you that you aren't the person he tried to turn you into? You sound intelligent and like you have a lot of perseverance ( stubbornness?- that's not a bad thing) and I expect you'd do really well. Keep at it, graduate , find you dream job then mail him a copy of your degree and first pay statement with a note that says " who's the stupid one now...you can kiss my royal @ss":laugh: ( just kidding)

BTW...i think that it's also very brave of you that you are willing to be introspective...myself, I am not there yet, may never be

[Ducky23]

the guy who treated you that way, who stole your confidence in your self and your abilities sounds like a complete and utter tool. Don't let him define you any longer...

As for you being a weak and pathetic fool....I know that's him talking, but really...what have you done in your life that would make you weak, pathetic, a fool? From what you have written about yourself, it would seem to me that the answer is nothing. You've had a hard go f things, yet something in you allows you to just keep on going...does that sound like someone who is weak?

You started to school and it sounds like you were doing well...does that sound like someone who is a fool?

And you are certainly not pathetic...you fought back and got away from him...that sounds pretty strong to me

You may have made some mistakes ( who hasn't) but there's nothing aout you that makes you into what he tried to define you as...it sounds more like he's the one who was a weak, pathetic fool. He had to tear you down to build himself up, and now you're the one stuck paying for it.

 

It sounds like the "logical" part of you knows that what he said and tried to make you believe isn't true, but the emotional part is still bogged down , believing his words. I can tell you over and over that he's full of cr@p and his words weren't true, but you need to believe that on an emotional level too.

What steps can you take to show yourself that you are not who he tried to turn you into to?

One thing you mentioned was university...is there any way that you could swing going back, even if just a few credits, so that you can start showing the "emotional" part of you that you aren't the person he tried to turn you into? You sound intelligent and like you have a lot of perseverance ( stubbornness?- that's not a bad thing) and I expect you'd do really well. Keep at it, graduate , find you dream job then mail him a copy of your degree and first pay statement with a note that says " who's the stupid one now...you can kiss my royal @ss":laugh: ( just kidding)

BTW...i think that it's also very brave of you that you are willing to be introspective...myself, I am not there yet, may never be

 

Somewhere up there ^^^^ you mentioned something about me being someone who doesn't seem to be weak. I think that I probably am strong somewhere. I know what I want OUT of life. I know that I want to be happy. I know that I want my children to grow up in a stable home with parents who love them. I want them to be successful and happy, completely independent and able to cope through all of life's struggles as adults. I know that I don't want them to have the same childhood as I had. I want them to keep their innocence as long as possible and never have to feel the pain that I have felt. That is what keeps me going. That is why I am still alive. That is why I get out of bed every day. But what do I want IN life? That one is so much harder. I don't know that I need a husband to help me raise the children I want so badly. I know I want more children, but how many and when I'm not sure. I just want to be happy. My whole life was a series of screwups and circumstantial f-yous from the world. I don't know how to give my children what I want for them. I try my hardest to make sure that they come to no harm and are mostly sheltered from the reality of what I'm struggling with. I'm mostly self-taught, I went to school until 5th grade, then was out and only allowed two classes in 8th grade. I repeated 9th grade twice before I dropped out and got my G.E.D. During the abusive relationship that stripped me of everything I was, I guess I forgot how much I love learning. I always said that if I could make a living as a career student, I would. The only problem with that is that I have to pay to go to college, not the other way around. I grew up hard and fast and mostly dependent upon myself. So I was forced to be introspective. One of the things that my therapist told me about Borderline Personality is that most people who have it see all things in Black and White, with no gray area. I have spent enough time with myself to know that I'm willing to change my views in certain places if someone can give me enough proof to sway my ideals. There are very few things that I'm hard-set against and I see gray areas in a lot of places. I learned growing up that I would have to adapt to change to survive and I have done my best to keep that thought as I've grown older.

I know that a lot of the power he still holds over me is completely emotional. He told me once "I'm sorry. It wasn't your fault how I treated you, and it was wrong of me. You didn't deserve it." He sounded sincere in his apology, he told me I wasn't stupid and I was none of the things he'd called me. I cried so hard out of sheer relief that night.. I felt like I had been freed from the hold he had over me. Less than 2 weeks later he was trying to sleep with me again and I realized that he only said those things because he thought it would help him get what he wanted. But it also took away the freedom I thought I had gained through his apology. It's been about a year since then. While we were together, he did a lot of physical damage. Part of that, the concussions and the oxygen depravation from him strangling me numerous times.. My brain isn't what it used to be. I still find joy in learning, but retaining information is hard. I've noticed it getting better, it's easier for me to learn new things now than it was two years ago. And I have contemplated finishing my degrees, as my job allows ample time and freedom for that. But I'm still afraid that if/when I re-start my schooling that those feelings of worthlessness will bring me down again. I'll be putting my oldest son in Preschool this next school year and it is very exciting for me, and I have thought that perhaps then I could get in during the fall or winter quarter in my old university. But I'm also terrified of rejection. I'm afraid of not being able to learn what I need to in the time allotted. The teaching style of the school is very fast-paced, which I loved, it didn't take too awful much time, 3 classes for 10 weeks with 3 weeks off, then the next set.. I truly do need to get my brain and my life back on track. I feel so.. in limbo, I guess. Like my life isn't my own. Like I have no control over what happens.

[frozensprouts]

you've overcome so much adversity in your life...you should be proud of that. I also sounds like you are doing your very best to give your kids a great stat in life...something else to feel good about...

there are those who use their past experiences as an excuse for their behavior, but you don't seem to do that...you accept that it happened and want to move on...

 

( i hope this next part isn't too personal, and if it is, please forgive that)

 

you say that you have been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder...do you find that diagnosis has been helpful in figuring out what makes you who you are?

My oldest daughter has asperger's syndrome, and also an anxiety disorder and depression...I'm finding it a very fine line between the diagnoses helping her understand herself and hindering her because she teds to define herself by the negative traits...do you find that with yourself?

I've told her that she defines who she is,not the aspergers, anxiety or depression...she is so much more than the sum total of those things...the same as you are so much more than someone with BPD...

 

I hope you are able to go back to school and give yourself the gift of living out your dreams and meeting your goals... just look at everything you have been through, and you have not let it hold you back...

[Ducky23]

you've overcome so much adversity in your life...you should be proud of that. I also sounds like you are doing your very best to give your kids a great stat in life...something else to feel good about...

there are those who use their past experiences as an excuse for their behavior, but you don't seem to do that...you accept that it happened and want to move on...

 

( i hope this next part isn't too personal, and if it is, please forgive that)

 

you say that you have been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder...do you find that diagnosis has been helpful in figuring out what makes you who you are?

My oldest daughter has asperger's syndrome, and also an anxiety disorder and depression...I'm finding it a very fine line between the diagnoses helping her understand herself and hindering her because she teds to define herself by the negative traits...do you find that with yourself?

I've told her that she defines who she is,not the aspergers, anxiety or depression...she is so much more than the sum total of those things...the same as you are so much more than someone with BPD...

 

I hope you are able to go back to school and give yourself the gift of living out your dreams and meeting your goals... just look at everything you have been through, and you have not let it hold you back...

 

I don't know if I let the Borderline define who I am, per se.. But it has definitely helped me understand why I act/react to certain situations. Forever and ever I thought I was bi-polar, but the Borderline diagnosis definitely made more sense to me once I got it and understood what it was. Having a name for it and understanding it has definitely helped me work through a lot of my emotional issues and it actually seemed like a huge relief once I got a proper name for the issues I was facing. It's no longer that I "react emotionally with no rational thought", because I understand that my body overreacts to emotion and I have to consciously make it stop and take control. Where before I just thought I WAS being rational and that was how you were SUPPOSED to react to emotions. I always understood that I dealt with A HUGE range of emotion usually in a very short time (screaming/throwing things to crying to laughing inside of half an hour), but I thought that I reacted so strongly because things were truly WORSE for me. I didn't know that my body threw itself into an automatic fight-or-flight response with every problem and that it was constantly overreacting. On occasion I still "freak out"(?) and overreact before I can catch it, and then I'll go "f-ing borderline!" and then apologize to whoever I just went nuts on. But I don't say "I'm crazy, I have Borderline Personality Disorder, deal with it" and then just let my emotions rule everything. I had to use my thirst for knowledge and bettering myself to research and truly understand WHAT having Borderline Personality meant, how it affected me, and how I could overcome it. I think about it at least once a day and it has become a focus, a goal to truly overcome it so I don't have to consciously stop myself. Just like my "barrier" is second-nature, I want my response to emotion to be the same, to not overreact simply because my brain has control over my emotions. I hope that made sense..

[frozensprouts]

I don't know if I let the Borderline define who I am, per se.. But it has definitely helped me understand why I act/react to certain situations. Forever and ever I thought I was bi-polar, but the Borderline diagnosis definitely made more sense to me once I got it and understood what it was. Having a name for it and understanding it has definitely helped me work through a lot of my emotional issues and it actually seemed like a huge relief once I got a proper name for the issues I was facing. It's no longer that I "react emotionally with no rational thought", because I understand that my body overreacts to emotion and I have to consciously make it stop and take control. Where before I just thought I WAS being rational and that was how you were SUPPOSED to react to emotions. I always understood that I dealt with A HUGE range of emotion usually in a very short time (screaming/throwing things to crying to laughing inside of half an hour), but I thought that I reacted so strongly because things were truly WORSE for me. I didn't know that my body threw itself into an automatic fight-or-flight response with every problem and that it was constantly overreacting. On occasion I still "freak out"(?) and overreact before I can catch it, and then I'll go "f-ing borderline!" and then apologize to whoever I just went nuts on. But I don't say "I'm crazy, I have Borderline Personality Disorder, deal with it" and then just let my emotions rule everything. I had to use my thirst for knowledge and bettering myself to research and truly understand WHAT having Borderline Personality meant, how it affected me, and how I could overcome it. I think about it at least once a day and it has become a focus, a goal to truly overcome it so I don't have to consciously stop myself. Just like my "barrier" is second-nature, I want my response to emotion to be the same, to not overreact simply because my brain has control over my emotions. I hope that made sense..

 

it does...

btw...you do seem to have a lot of insight into yourself...have you ever started a self help group for others living with borderline personality disorder? it seems like you have a lot you could share that could really help others

[Ducky23]

it does...

btw...you do seem to have a lot of insight into yourself...have you ever started a self help group for others living with borderline personality disorder? it seems like you have a lot you could share that could really help others

 

I was only told about BPD a year and two months ago. Honestly before my diagnosis I didn't even know it existed. I suppose I never thought of starting a group because I don't believe I've truly overcome it yet. I used to do in-home detox and rehabilitation for drug addicts and alcoholics, and I was confident in my ability to do so because of my experience with addiction and nursing. I had an RN on-call at all times and she supplied all that I needed. I have nursed broken men back to full health, repaired broken relationships, intervened in the choices made by children whom I claim as family so they would not follow in my footsteps. I have always used the knowledge the world gave me to help others who were willing and ready. I don't know why it never occurred to me in my broken state to try and reach out to others with BPD. I never realized until I just wrote that that the things I've accomplished in my very young life are things that some people don't accomplish in 50, or 100 years. I've been told before that I would make a great counselor/therapist/teacher, but I've never truly believed in my ability. Mostly because of the schooling that is required for those things. I've always been an avid reader and writing comes naturally to me. I chose Accounting as my major in college because numbers always made me think. It was a challenge to overcome that weakness. It's harder for me to now form complete thoughts and sentences in my brain than it used to be. I don't feel as though I'm as creative as I used to be. And what I write, I write as it comes, with no true thought or planning. It just pours out and not always coherently or in any structured way, I feel like it's more rambling than anything. That has been another struggle of mine over the last couple of years, making sense and coherency in my brain before it comes out. It's like a jumbled mess up there. And I wouldn't know where to start for a self help support group.. How do you start one? I don't know anyone else with BPD..

[frozensprouts]

I was only told about BPD a year and two months ago. Honestly before my diagnosis I didn't even know it existed. I suppose I never thought of starting a group because I don't believe I've truly overcome it yet. I used to do in-home detox and rehabilitation for drug addicts and alcoholics, and I was confident in my ability to do so because of my experience with addiction and nursing. I had an RN on-call at all times and she supplied all that I needed. I have nursed broken men back to full health, repaired broken relationships, intervened in the choices made by children whom I claim as family so they would not follow in my footsteps. I have always used the knowledge the world gave me to help others who were willing and ready. I don't know why it never occurred to me in my broken state to try and reach out to others with BPD. I never realized until I just wrote that that the things I've accomplished in my very young life are things that some people don't accomplish in 50, or 100 years. I've been told before that I would make a great counselor/therapist/teacher, but I've never truly believed in my ability. Mostly because of the schooling that is required for those things. I've always been an avid reader and writing comes naturally to me. I chose Accounting as my major in college because numbers always made me think. It was a challenge to overcome that weakness. It's harder for me to now form complete thoughts and sentences in my brain than it used to be. I don't feel as though I'm as creative as I used to be. And what I write, I write as it comes, with no true thought or planning. It just pours out and not always coherently or in any structured way, I feel like it's more rambling than anything. That has been another struggle of mine over the last couple of years, making sense and coherency in my brain before it comes out. It's like a jumbled mess up there. And I wouldn't know where to start for a self help support group.. How do you start one? I don't know anyone else with BPD..

 

I'm not sure about starting one for BPD, but I started one a while back for the parents/family members of children with special physical/emotional/social or intellectual needs. The social worker at our local military family resource center gave me some help in getting it started ( I volunteer there a lot, and sat on their Board for 8 years...I loved being Board secretary, and chaired quite a few committees- also got involved in sitting on other Boards, and even ended up as vice chair on the provincial board of a national NGO- hwen I first stated, I was thinking ' what the h@ll am I even doing here? I have no clue what I'm doing":laugh:)...

 

i think you'd be good at leading a self help group..

It also sounds like you be really great in the not for profit NGO world...is that where your passion lies? With helping others? It sounds like you have a real knack for it...there must be something in you that people intuituively see and seek out...they know you can help them...

[Ducky23]

I'm not sure about starting one for BPD, but I started one a while back for the parents/family members of children with special physical/emotional/social or intellectual needs. The social worker at our local military family resource center gave me some help in getting it started ( I volunteer there a lot, and sat on their Board for 8 years...I loved being Board secretary, and chaired quite a few committees- also got involved in sitting on other Boards, and even ended up as vice chair on the provincial board of a national NGO- hwen I first stated, I was thinking ' what the h@ll am I even doing here? I have no clue what I'm doing":laugh:)...

 

i think you'd be good at leading a self help group..

It also sounds like you be really great in the not for profit NGO world...is that where your passion lies? With helping others? It sounds like you have a real knack for it...there must be something in you that people intuituively see and seek out...they know you can help them...

 

I do indeed love helping people. I've been with my non-profit group for 10 years. 2 years ago I got a board position which put me in direct line between the actors and the board. This year I was voted in for the same position plus one. I've known the current board members for 10 years. So giving my opinion, and even putting my foot down on issues I've had to a few times isn't hard for me. They're people I'm close to and view as family. There is huge support and respect there between all of us. The actors range from 7-50+ years in age and they all trust and respect me as a fellow actor as well as a board member. The whole focus of our group is to give the kids in our community a safe place for interaction without the pressure of drugs, gangs, alcohol, underage partying, ect. We hold the youth to high standards and they typically meet or exceed all standards. I'm very proud of the years of service I've given to that NPO, and I plan to be a lifelong member. I should look into getting support to start a support group for BPD.. Thank you for the wonderful idea!

[frozensprouts]

I do indeed love helping people. I've been with my non-profit group for 10 years. 2 years ago I got a board position which put me in direct line between the actors and the board. This year I was voted in for the same position plus one. I've known the current board members for 10 years. So giving my opinion, and even putting my foot down on issues I've had to a few times isn't hard for me. They're people I'm close to and view as family. There is huge support and respect there between all of us. The actors range from 7-50+ years in age and they all trust and respect me as a fellow actor as well as a board member. The whole focus of our group is to give the kids in our community a safe place for interaction without the pressure of drugs, gangs, alcohol, underage partying, ect. We hold the youth to high standards and they typically meet or exceed all standards. I'm very proud of the years of service I've given to that NPO, and I plan to be a lifelong member. I should look into getting support to start a support group for BPD.. Thank you for the wonderful idea!

 

glad to share...

you have so much going for you as a person, it just seems to me like you could really help others with BPD (and , in turn, help yourself- I really became aware of how much it can help when I started one- I didn't feel so alone anymore, and it was good to know that others felt the same way I did about somethings, and it helped me to get past a lot of the guilt I felt over different things)