Monogamous Affair??

[reboot]

Yes! We are NOT awful, brain dead, cretins that are only interested in sex and food!

 

 

We also like football!

[SoMovinOn]

Yes! We are NOT awful, brain dead, cretins that are only interested in sex and food!

 

 

We also like football!

 

I don't like football, or any other sport. ... and sex, unless it's with the right women, and we have a very strong relationship otherwise ... I can live without it.

[MissBee]

My AP was actually honest about his relationship..i.e. "nothing is wrong with it, I just love you too".

 

I could extrapolate from that that basically he was maintaining two relationships and therefore did everything a man in a relationship would do, including having sex.

 

That saved the trouble I guess of him having to lie about it. I'm sure though that a lot of MM who are in his exact position (i.e. their wife/SO is not someone whom they hate, who they aren't attracted to, who they're just roommates with etc), will not be so candid, so will lie or downplay the reality of the situation to further the A.

 

And while he was NOT monogamous, he sure expected my fidelity, sexually and otherwise. Flabbergaster pretty much explains the whole mentality about that; it was exactly this line of reasoning on his part.

 

You were living with person A when you met him. You were presumably sleeping with person A.

Ego: he is so important to you that you sleep with him, even though you were involved with person A. So he doesn't see person A as a threat, because he already showed he can take you from this person. IF you do anything with person A...well you're just keeping up appearances.

 

Now if you were to find someone else to sleep with while you are in the A...that would be choosing someone over him. That means that he isn't important enough to you to be monogamous. Sexually or emotionally, it would be an insult.

Edited June 30, 2012 by MissBee

[reboot]

I don't like football, or any other sport. ... and sex, unless it's with the right women, and we have a very strong relationship otherwise ... I can live without it.

 

It was a joke. Yuk Yuk.

[Ducky23]

My AP was actually honest about his relationship..i.e. "nothing is wrong with it, I just love you too".

 

I could extrapolate from that that basically he was maintaining two relationships and therefore did everything a man in a relationship would do, including having sex.

 

That saved the trouble I guess of him having to lie about it. I'm sure though that a lot of MM who are in his exact position (i.e. their wife/SO is not someone whom they hate, who they aren't attracted to, who they're just roommates with etc), will not be so candid, so will lie or downplay the reality of the situation to further the A.

 

And while he was NOT monogamous, he sure expected my fidelity, sexually and otherwise. Flabbergaster pretty much explains the whole mentality about that; it was exactly this line of reasoning on his part.

 

Hmm.. I hadn't actually thought about this until you posted it MissBee, but do they not think of the blows to our own egos, knowing that we ourselves are not "enough" for them? That if they're allowed to have sex outside of the R brought on by the A, shouldn't we be allowed to as well? Especially if, like in your case, they are simply holding down two separate Rs?

He never lied to me about their M, and he made sure that I knew that he loved her as a close friend (that's what their relationship was before they started dating in high school), but was no longer attracted to her in any way. Nor did he want to continue building a life with her, have kids with her (he continued to "pull out" even though she has an IUD and he wouldn't have sex with her without it), or live with her for very much longer. I was the one to decide which car he bought, we've shopped for houses, talked about our "needs" in buying a house and living together.. I kept waiting, hoping he would make good and "leave soon". He told me when we talked about ending the A that he was going to be miserable without me and didn't want me to end it. I suppose that was his way of trying to "call me back" before I'd even left. And probably why he opted for LC instead of NC.

I'm 7 days NC. and it's still hard. I've been doing a lot of soul-searching and have come to a lot of realizations in the last week. I can't say I was absolutely miserable in the A, but I realized that I made a lot of choices and did a lot of morally f***ed up stuff I would never have done otherwise. I went to the doctor yesterday and deliberately didn't ask about the points my MM wanted to discuss.. Because I knew it would be harder to keep NC, as I would want to relay what my doctor said. Now I have an ultrasound in about a week, and I should have the test results before that. These are all things I'd usually talk to him about.. I think breaking that habit is the hardest.

[Got it]

Hmm.. I hadn't actually thought about this until you posted it MissBee, but do they not think of the blows to our own egos, knowing that we ourselves are not "enough" for them? That if they're allowed to have sex outside of the R brought on by the A, shouldn't we be allowed to as well? Especially if, like in your case, they are simply holding down two separate Rs?

He never lied to me about their M, and he made sure that I knew that he loved her as a close friend (that's what their relationship was before they started dating in high school), but was no longer attracted to her in any way. Nor did he want to continue building a life with her, have kids with her (he continued to "pull out" even though she has an IUD and he wouldn't have sex with her without it), or live with her for very much longer. I was the one to decide which car he bought, we've shopped for houses, talked about our "needs" in buying a house and living together.. I kept waiting, hoping he would make good and "leave soon". He told me when we talked about ending the A that he was going to be miserable without me and didn't want me to end it. I suppose that was his way of trying to "call me back" before I'd even left. And probably why he opted for LC instead of NC.

I'm 7 days NC. and it's still hard. I've been doing a lot of soul-searching and have come to a lot of realizations in the last week. I can't say I was absolutely miserable in the A, but I realized that I made a lot of choices and did a lot of morally f***ed up stuff I would never have done otherwise. I went to the doctor yesterday and deliberately didn't ask about the points my MM wanted to discuss.. Because I knew it would be harder to keep NC, as I would want to relay what my doctor said. Now I have an ultrasound in about a week, and I should have the test results before that. These are all things I'd usually talk to him about.. I think breaking that habit is the hardest.

 

Sure, on one hand, if you allow his opinions to define you. In that line of thinking then both women would be thinking such when it has nothing to do with you and whether you are enough or too much, and about him and whether he feels he can get everything he wants from one person or from a multitude of persons.

 

I saw, and dMM admitted to during the divorce, that having me allowed him to have everything he wanted, that life was pretty great then. He had his family life, his kids around him, his wife on a status quo, and his romantic and emotional needs met by me. That really was the best of all worlds for him and while he had guilt and anxiety for finding fulfillment in a less than acceptable manner . . . . well it was what it was.

 

(((Ducky)))) It is hard to create new habits but over time they will become old habits. Just keep one foot in front of the other and be gentle with yourself.

[Spark1111]

Isn't that the whole point that people often try to get across to people involved with a married partner? They OM/OW chooses to believe the fantasy story spun by the MP, as long as it supports the affair.

 

But the fact is, the MP is already shown to be adept at spinning a web of lies, so shouldn't that give you pause at believing anything?

 

I think that's entirely consistent with what reboot said:

 

 

That's not picking one narrow issue out of a bunch of other assumed-to-be-true facts. That's just an extension of saying "hey, you can't really count on any of it...", which matches what you are saying.

 

Thank you for this Trimmer!

 

Just as I didn't believe "they were just friends", the "sex was pretty boring" and "I only so liked that she wanted me" after dday, I am just saying that yeah, the MP has shown they are adept at spinning and weaving a web of lies, so YOU can't really count on any of it.

[Spark1111]

Really? I mean, actually, I would have agreed with you ... it just seems like pretty much all men are like that. ... but ... I don't have a study to support it, other than my own experience, I think the reality is, a LOT of men turn down women (their wives or otherwise), in his bed and elsewhere.

 

Guys are not the blind, humping dogs they are stereotypically made out to be.

 

I know I am not a typical example in many respects, but I can assure you, STBXW has done everything and everything, from begging to bribes ... and I wouldn't touch her with a 10 foot pole. ... and, among the guys I know, more are like that than not.

 

Sad, sad,sad.....

 

And rarely true I believe. They say they are not blind, humping dogs because they want to portray they have standards, and I'm sure many of them do.

 

But many of them, especially if confused or conflicted or experiencing guilt while in an affair are NOT turning down the wife.

 

And if you wouldn't touch your wife with a ten-foot pole that says more about you than your spouse, as in WHY ARE YOU STILL THERE?

[Spark1111]

Hmm.. I hadn't actually thought about this until you posted it MissBee, but do they not think of the blows to our own egos, knowing that we ourselves are not "enough" for them? That if they're allowed to have sex outside of the R brought on by the A, shouldn't we be allowed to as well? Especially if, like in your case, they are simply holding down two separate Rs?

He never lied to me about their M, and he made sure that I knew that he loved her as a close friend (that's what their relationship was before they started dating in high school), but was no longer attracted to her in any way. Nor did he want to continue building a life with her, have kids with her (he continued to "pull out" even though she has an IUD and he wouldn't have sex with her without it), or live with her for very much longer. I was the one to decide which car he bought, we've shopped for houses, talked about our "needs" in buying a house and living together.. I kept waiting, hoping he would make good and "leave soon". He told me when we talked about ending the A that he was going to be miserable without me and didn't want me to end it. I suppose that was his way of trying to "call me back" before I'd even left. And probably why he opted for LC instead of NC.

I'm 7 days NC. and it's still hard. I've been doing a lot of soul-searching and have come to a lot of realizations in the last week. I can't say I was absolutely miserable in the A, but I realized that I made a lot of choices and did a lot of morally f***ed up stuff I would never have done otherwise. I went to the doctor yesterday and deliberately didn't ask about the points my MM wanted to discuss.. Because I knew it would be harder to keep NC, as I would want to relay what my doctor said. Now I have an ultrasound in about a week, and I should have the test results before that. These are all things I'd usually talk to him about.. I think breaking that habit is the hardest.

 

Good insight Ducky, and in a quick time too. Be proud of yourself.

 

In a triangulated relationship, the MAP holds all the power.They need to, it is what empowers them during the affair.

 

The AP is under their control in that if she does date others, he is upset and makes her feel as if she is CHEATING, and the BS is in the dark, therefore not divorcing or dating or moving on either. Home making dinner? Being his best friend? Having an IUD inserted because he has her convinced they cannot have anymore children and besides, he hates to pull out.

 

You BELIEVE THIS?

 

C.mon. I have never known a man to be with a woman on BC who EVER willingly pulled out. Sorry.

 

You are smartening up. Keep it up and be proud of yourself.

 

He/she has the best of all worlds: Everyone exactly where he wants them.

[Ducky23]

Good insight Ducky, and in a quick time too. Be proud of yourself.

 

In a triangulated relationship, the MAP holds all the power.They need to, it is what empowers them during the affair.

 

The AP is under their control in that if she does date others, he is upset and makes her feel as if she is CHEATING, and the BS is in the dark, therefore not divorcing or dating or moving on either. Home making dinner? Being his best friend? Having an IUD inserted because he has her convinced they cannot have anymore children and besides, he hates to pull out.

 

You BELIEVE THIS?

 

Yes, I believe this. I have stepped in the middle of their arguments over it. he is nearing his 32nd birthday and "they" decided before that they weren't ready for children. She is sensitive to hormonal BC and has a copper IUD. she is ready and wanting to take it out and start having children. He has told her, more than once, that she may take it out. And that he will, at that point, never have sex with her again. And even with her IUD, he still pulls out. He doesn't trust BC and the IUD is no different. She believes I'm her 'closest' friend and has come crying to me on more than one occasion because he laughed at her for wearing lingerie and trying to initiate sex, then fell asleep; she wants to have kids but he's too logical and refuses to impregnate her before they buy a house, but he refuses to buy a house right now; she wants to have sex, he brushes her off; she doesn't think his back problems are real because it "only" hurts when she wants sex, or wants him to come to bed, or when I'm in town and he wants to take a day off work, ect ect ect.. I do not get details of their life together from him, but from her.

 

C.mon. I have never known a man to be with a woman on BC who EVER willingly pulled out. Sorry.

 

You are smartening up. Keep it up and be proud of yourself.

 

He/she has the best of all worlds: Everyone exactly where he wants them.

 

When I found LS I was only looking for a reason to stay with him. He knew that I had one foot out the door. I don't know, even now, whether or not he truly did/does love me. But I stand by the fact that he has never lied to me. It is that honesty that I believe still has power over me. It was so much of everything that I had never found in a man before. Even if the truth would hurt or upset me, he always said it.

[SoMovinOn]

And if you wouldn't touch your wife with a ten-foot pole that says more about you than your spouse, as in WHY ARE YOU STILL THERE?

 

Financial reasons and the housing market. After her A's and some time wasted on R, I told her to leave, and gave her some time to get herself together to do that.

[Got it]

Financial reasons and the housing market. After her A's and some time wasted on R, I told her to leave, and gave her some time to get herself together to do that.

 

You scumbag you!!!

[Radagast]

Really? I mean, actually, I would have agreed with you ... it just seems like pretty much all men are like that. ... but ... I don't have a study to support it, other than my own experience, I think the reality is, a LOT of men turn down women (their wives or otherwise), in his bed and elsewhere.

 

Guys are not the blind, humping dogs they are stereotypically made out to be.

 

I know I am not a typical example in many respects, but I can assure you, STBXW has done everything and everything, from begging to bribes ... and I wouldn't touch her with a 10 foot pole. ... and, among the guys I know, more are like that than not.

 

Add me to your list. My ex-wife also tried very hard once she felt she would lose me, and there was no way I would or even could respond. She repulsed me and I could simply not become aroused if she was anywhere near me as I'd fallen in love with my lover. And previously, I'd turned down advances from other women too. They say that women need a reason to have sex and men simply an opportunity, but that's not at all true in my experience. I had around 30 years of monogamous fidelity with my ex-wife, and I've had around 8 with my current wife. When I started seeing my wife, I stopped having sex with my ex-wife.

[skywriter]

Ducky23,I'm 7 days NC. and it's still hard. I've been doing a lot of soul-searching and have come to a lot of realizations in the last week. I can't say I was absolutely miserable in the A, but I realized that I made a lot of choices and did a lot of morally f***ed up stuff I would never have done otherwise.

 

Yay Ducky, for making it 7 days in NC!

I'm somewhere around 7 wks give or take. I've been angry and I've grieved, and today, so far, it's just been an attitude of please, just live and let live.

 

I just want to be left alone to live peacefully. I wish him no ill.

[Spark1111]

When I found LS I was only looking for a reason to stay with him. He knew that I had one foot out the door. I don't know, even now, whether or not he truly did/does love me. But I stand by the fact that he has never lied to me. It is that honesty that I believe still has power over me. It was so much of everything that I had never found in a man before. Even if the truth would hurt or upset me, he always said it.

 

OMG! The fact that you know all of the most intimate details of their relationship, more than she knows regarding his desire to not impregnate her, is simply disgusting to me.

 

Yuck!

 

And you told him what a dog he was to confide these most intimate details to you as she also comes crying to you about her desire to have his children? Right?

 

He might NOT have lied to you, and that makes you feel special? To be in the middle of a man and his wife and KNOW more than she does about their plans to have, or not have children?

 

Maybe that was a good thing, because now you know how he does intimacy with a wife. He doesn't. He lies to her while telling you the truth.

 

And THAT made you feel desired and special and loved?

 

Oh, Ducky....keep running.

[Spark1111]

Financial reasons and the housing market. After her A's and some time wasted on R, I told her to leave, and gave her some time to get herself together to do that.

 

Oh, God....that's not a marriage! That's living like barely civil roommates while saving up and awaiting to divorce.

 

That's not your wife, that's your soon to be xwife.

 

Big difference, IMO.

[cocorico]

Oh, God....that's not a marriage! That's living like barely civil roommates while saving up and awaiting to divorce.

 

That's not your wife, that's your soon to be xwife.

 

Big difference, IMO.

 

Many Ms are like that.

[Ducky23]

OMG! The fact that you know all of the most intimate details of their relationship, more than she knows regarding his desire to not impregnate her, is simply disgusting to me.

 

Yuck!

 

And you told him what a dog he was to confide these most intimate details to you as she also comes crying to you about her desire to have his children? Right?

 

He might NOT have lied to you, and that makes you feel special? To be in the middle of a man and his wife and KNOW more than she does about their plans to have, or not have children?

 

Maybe that was a good thing, because now you know how he does intimacy with a wife. He doesn't. He lies to her while telling you the truth.

 

And THAT made you feel desired and special and loved?

 

Oh, Ducky....keep running.

 

Our R was very... Abnormal. To say the least. Our friendship often outweighed the intimacy. I'm very.. Closed off? I keep most of my thoughts to myself and don't typically say what I'm thinking unless it's relevant. Especially with lovers, and in intimate relationships. But I'm very observant, and I tend to glean information from people even without them noticing. I'm quite sure that I know 95% more about MM than he knows about me. It wasn't often that we spoke of their M, and when we did it was very deep and intense. He never truly bad-mouthed her to me, he didn't make her out to be anything worse than she is. He had days where he hated her and days that weren't so bad. But he was consistent in his plans for his future. And they don't include her. With or without me around, he will get rid of her when he's ready. She's the only one that doesn't know. And yes, I feel guilty carrying that. I tried telling her quite a few times. She loves and trusts her husband. She believes he has no plans to leave her. Because that's what he tells her.

[woinlove]

Many Ms are like that.

 

Only for people who chose to have an M like that.

[SoMovinOn]

Oh, God....that's not a marriage! That's living like barely civil roommates while saving up and awaiting to divorce.

 

That's not your wife, that's your soon to be xwife.

 

Big difference, IMO.

 

Yes. It's not a marriage. It's separated but living together. Sadly, very common with the current housing and job markets. There was recently a big article on it in the local paper. Some couples are even divorced and still living together.

 

I do refer to her as STBXW.

[Spark1111]

Our R was very... Abnormal. To say the least. Our friendship often outweighed the intimacy. I'm very.. Closed off? I keep most of my thoughts to myself and don't typically say what I'm thinking unless it's relevant. Especially with lovers, and in intimate relationships. But I'm very observant, and I tend to glean information from people even without them noticing. I'm quite sure that I know 95% more about MM than he knows about me. It wasn't often that we spoke of their M, and when we did it was very deep and intense. He never truly bad-mouthed her to me, he didn't make her out to be anything worse than she is. He had days where he hated her and days that weren't so bad. But he was consistent in his plans for his future. And they don't include her. With or without me around, he will get rid of her when he's ready. She's the only one that doesn't know. And yes, I feel guilty carrying that. I tried telling her quite a few times. She loves and trusts her husband. She believes he has no plans to leave her. Because that's what he tells her.

 

Ducky...TRIED? Or told?

 

Talked around, hinted at, intimated....is trying.

 

Telling is straight and to the point: Your husband's plans for the future do not include you, according to what he has told me.

 

This guy is the typical cake-eater. Complains to the AP, future fakes with the AP, but is incapable of directly communicating his feelings to his wife.

 

He is a poor communicator too, IMO. And a terrible H.

 

The fact that he still has anger towards her convinces me he still has some deep feelings for her and his projecting his issues onto her.

 

Run Ducky and remember this: The opposite of love is not anger or hate --it's indifference.

 

As long as man expresses anger, frustration, sadness for a woman, he still has residual feelings for her.

 

If he did not, he would simply not care at all.

[Ducky23]

Ducky...TRIED? Or told?

 

Talked around, hinted at, intimated....is trying.

 

Telling is straight and to the point: Your husband's plans for the future do not include you, according to what he has told me.

 

This guy is the typical cake-eater. Complains to the AP, future fakes with the AP, but is incapable of directly communicating his feelings to his wife.

 

He is a poor communicator too, IMO. And a terrible H.

 

The fact that he still has anger towards her convinces me he still has some deep feelings for her and his projecting his issues onto her.

 

Run Ducky and remember this: The opposite of love is not anger or hate --it's indifference.

 

As long as man expresses anger, frustration, sadness for a woman, he still has residual feelings for her.

 

If he did not, he would simply not care at all.

 

No no.. I've told her, flat out, "he isn't in love with you anymore." she knows that. He gets mad when she tries to cuddle, has laughed at her for trying to initiate sex, has flat out told her, to her face "you're nasty, I have no desire to have sex with you. When we have sex, I do it because it makes you shut up, not because I want to." I've told her his reasons for staying up to now and his plans on leaving her once the largest part of their debt is paid down. I have told her the whole truth about everything EXCEPT the A. Yes, it caused a discussion between MM and I about how telling her those things betrayed his trust, and that it upset him. She chooses to stay with him because he tells her "I have no plans to leave you." that's her choice. She hopes that losing weight will make him love her again and bring back the passion they used to have. She doesn't understand that it's her personality he has the greatest issue with. She has no friends in their town and she demands all of his time, she is very clingy and gets angry because he never spends time with her. She has no life outside of their M and work. And he hates it. He doesn't hate her all the time. He does admit that he still has love for her, it simply isn't romantic anymore. He's bothered more by how much she doesn't try to take care of herself than how much she weighs. Her weight slows her down and keeps her from being able to do things with him like hiking and swimming that he loves to do. He feels that she is selfish and her inability to allow him to go away on his own to do the things he loves is holding him back from having a happy life. She controls his diet (she shuns most vegetables and eats very greasy unhealthy food), he quit cooking for her years ago because she constantly complains about the food he cooks (too many vegetables/things she doesn't like), and she's too lazy to cook 4 days out of the week, so they eat out. Her personality has changed enough that he is no longer attracted to her. He won't simply divorce her and leave her with nothing, he wants to make sure she can stand on her own two feet and provide for herself financially. He does still care. He simply doesn't want to be with her.

[frozensprouts]

Ducky,

I hate to say it, but reading the things you write about his wife really sounds like you are jealous of her. From the way you write, he is great and she is the devil incarnate.

Think about it...imagine being married to someone who treats you the way he treats her...he treats her like dirt in every other way, yet he doesn't want to divorce right now because it could hurt her financially...so instead he'll stay with her and be abusive to her verbally and emotionally instead? Sounds to me like the real reason he is staying is because he is getting something, god knows what, out of staying there.

 

The the ultimate irony...a woman she feels is her friend, who she has been kind enough to open her home to, who she actually cares for, who she feels she can trust, is ( was) sleeping with her husband?

 

Instead of demonizing her and making this all her fault, why not place the blame at the feet of whom it should be placed...this lying snake of a man. If he had any guts at all he'd be honest with her and tell her he was cheating...but of course, he doesn't want to "hurt' her that way... but every way else seems to be A okay.

[reboot]

"you're nasty, I have no desire to have sex with you. When we have sex, I do it because it makes you shut up, not because I want to."

 

This is pretty funny. A woman can do this if she so chooses, very few men could. The mechanics behind an erection generally won't permit it. But you go on and believe it if you want to.

[Trimmer]

I don't know, even now, whether or not he truly did/does love me. But I stand by the fact that he has never lied to me. It is that honesty that I believe still has power over me. It was so much of everything that I had never found in a man before. Even if the truth would hurt or upset me, he always said it.

You know, I might offer a refinement of that statement: it is your belief in his honesty that has the power over you.

 

I'm not saying I'm sure yours is not being honest, but that power in an affair doesn't actually depend on a MM being honest, it depends (in your case, too) strictly on the OW's belief in the MM's honesty.

 

I have told her the whole truth about everything EXCEPT the A.

You do realize that you can't use the words "whole" and "except" in that sentence, right? Don't delude yourself - you need to pick one or the other, you can't use both.