tojaz Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Ok, been thinking about this for a little bit.... Well this Am it went sour! I asked H if he went to races and he got smart with me ... what prompted him to "get smart" with you? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 He said cause first thing i do is ask him where he was. Now he wont even speak to me its like we are back to square one. I told him i still cared about him and our marriage and he said i should stop Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 I guess he just didnt want to be questioned makes me wonder why?? Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Hmm, okay...I had some similar questions I was going to post earlier but decided against it. However, more clarification.....and tell me if this is correct: He walked into the room and you just asked, innocently, if he went to the races. He retorted "the first thing you do is ask me where I was!!" And then you informed him that as a married man being out to 3am was not good married behavior? Just trying to understand the immediate situation that led to the exchange.... Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 Yep- he looked like he was irritated i even spoke Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Is he aware that you are going through the phone records? Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 No i dont think he is. He prob wouldnt care anyway he just got really jerky today, its days like these i feel like he could careless about me. Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I don't want to say this is nit-picking, nor am I projecting, but when my exH came back the first time to work on the relationship I questioned him on every little thing. A lot of that came from right here on this forum...that he must be cheating because he stated that our marriage was done. I bought into that....however, only YOU know your husband. No one here does, so do you think he would cheat on you? I can tell you how fast a loyal man would become a cheating one when you look for the skeletons. This is why I wish LS would take note that not everyone is having affairs when they leave a relationship that is not working and would offer constructive advice to those who leave a bad marriage or how to work things out to make a good marriage better when it goes through struggles like you are going through. Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 No honestly i dont think he is cheating. I think im trying to find something on him that i can blame for why he must not want to work things out with me. Because ive tried to catch him and find something ive come up wrong every time and im making myself crazy looking. Link to post Share on other sites
eeyore1981 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 If he can't forgive you, I don't see what else you can do that will change that. Maybe it's time for you to start preparing yourself for life without him. I'm not saying issue ultimatums or anything of that nature. Just find other things to do with your life besides sitting around being his whipping dog. Get some hobbies, spend time with some friends, go to the gym. Don't even be snarky about it, if he's around, tell him where you're going, who you'll be with, and when you'll be back, if he's not text him the details. It seems to me you have pretty much groveled at his feet for forgiveness. Maybe a different approach won't fix things with him, but it might make you feel better, and give you a few baby steps into your process of getting over him if he does leave. Link to post Share on other sites
tojaz Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Allie, first of all, keep Eyores advice above in mind as you should be preparing yourself for all eventualities. You can still stand for your marriage while preparing yourself for what may come. As for dealing with him, I see two options right now. 1. Damage Control: which unfortunately is only going to get you back to that state of limbo you have been living in, a position of trying to wait him out which today he has made clear that he is perfectly ready to sit on the fence and watch you squirm for as long as he cares to. 2. Full frontal assault: which i feel bad even calling that. What I mean is not as harsh as I make it sound. Up to this point you have been doing all the heavy lifting and he has been watching. I have seen you take more then your share of the blame while he has lived comfortably setting up hoops for you to jump through. I'm suggesting you switch off, since he wants out, let him see what out is like. I'm not saying pick fights, or anything like that, just quit being his wife. If he wants to stay out all night, let him come home to a locked door, quit setting his place for dinner or anything else you happen to be doing for him. Stop fulfilling needs for him, both practical and emotional. This isn't something I would usually suggest in a situation like yours, but his unwillingness to move forward with the D and the fact that he seems to try very hard to keep you twisting in the wind makes me think that this is still about punishing you and not about his end game. Remove that aspect of it and allow him to have consequences to his actions he will move forward. Unfortunately that will be in whatever direction that takes. Sorry Allie, i was hoping for better news from you today, sorry this happened. TOJAZ Link to post Share on other sites
eeyore1981 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 There are so so many heartbreaking stories in here of infidelity with most of the cheaters saying, "It was just a mistake!!" This situation on this thread, this really was a mistake. I don't see any evil intent in what happened, or selfishness. All I see is a woman who was scared and in denial who made a few bad decisions and has gone above and beyond for forgiveness. None of us are perfect, including OP's husband... I can guarantee my marriage would have been a whole lot better had my husband shown even a fraction of the remorse I've seen on this thread, and for things a lot worse than the mistake that happened here. Allie, we all make mistakes. It's what we do in the aftermath that says who we are. IMO, you owned it and have bent over backwards to make amends. Give yourself a break from this. I know you love your husband and want things to work out, but there's only so much you can do. Maybe it really is time to quit walking on eggshells. You don't deserve to be treated like this. Link to post Share on other sites
trippi1432 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I've swayed back and forth on this for hours now to what advice I could offer you after that last exchange, you know his intent now...let him suffer the consequences of his own decision. You cannot continue to stand for something that the other party no longer believes in but I think you have learned a lot of lessons if someone ever enters your heart again. Personally, I don't think your husband is punishing you per say......he is done, so serve him with the divorce papers and make it real for him. It's okay to walk away from what is not working to make a better life for you.... I used to believe too that it's not over until it's over, but someone has to call the bluff eventually. Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Thank you all for your advice and thoughts! Im taking it all in. I'm not sure what to do yet. He did say he feels indifference and hes happy with the status quo so that is red flag hes over it. Limbo isnt a state I wish to live in especially when hes made it clear he is "done" Link to post Share on other sites
Yasuandio Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Well this Am it went sour! (Not Necessiarily So). New Allie's Adult Inquiry: "I asked H if he went to races" Child's Response: "he got smart with me" New Allie: "i just didnt think him coming home at 3am was good married behavior." Child's Response: He said he doesnt care what i think he stopped by his friends and was hanging out. New Allie: "I said its not fair to be living a single life when your married." Child's Response: "He screamed at me" New Allie: "i told him maybe its time he makes a move toward his goal because my dd and i cant do this any longer." Child's Possible Threat: He said "just so i know nothings changed and he wants out still." New Allie: "I said thats sad i really had hoped wed work things out" Child's Blaming Behavior: [Allie] is a liar... lied right to [his] face and [he] cant believe anything you say anymore. He said this whole situation sucks and its [Allie's] fault. Child's Continued Protest: He said all i do is try to find evidence hes cheating and hes not! Allie Controls and Ends Conversation With Logical Conclusion: "I told him i had hopedhed understand and forgive me. That he wouldnt judge me on amonths worth of mistakes. Or throw our marriage away on a months worth of mistakes." He didnt say anything else. No, he didn't say anything else. He couldn't, because you handled the conversation (I mean blaming, accusations, and threats) so masterfully. Now, my only suggestion is for you to back off on the topic of gossip, it is a meaningless and fruitless topic. Once the gossip is out - it is like standing on the roof of a barn on a windy day, and cutting open a feather pillow. There is no way you will collect the feathers and get them back in the pillow. They will float, and spread and spread like wildfire. You can only depend on your real friends if you indeed have any. So, absolutely "let go" of the concept of correcting gossip. My second advice to you is to refrain from calling and texting your husband at work. In fact, after this conversation I just analyzed (if you could call it that), I would have very little to say to him. I definately would STOP asking questions. He understands your position. I think you have to stop, it is my opinion that you continued questioning and wrestling, and sometimes manipulating is a form of OVERFUNCTIONING that is working against you goal. I am so sorry if I am coming off turse again. I really meant this post to be of the highest compliment to you. But I read all the posts at one time -- and I am responding to several days activity at one time. Please keep up the good work that is in this text. Trippi was darn right - you are getting yourself under control. You know what to say before you say it. Your responses were extremely thoughtful and on point - and you left your husband flapping in the wind - and making an idiot out of himself with threats. The key -- you had previously identified "what is" and "what is not" acceptable in your marriage. Now you turned on your Red Light. Stay on Red - there is a huge reason for it. You need to be on high alert in the event his threats are real. Thank God you have your attorney. Smart women protect themselves from threatening curcumstances. You have been threatened young lady. There is no shame in preparing for the worst scenerio. You have a daughter to think of, besides yourself. Best wishes, Yas Link to post Share on other sites
Yasuandio Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I should probably keep my mouth shut but I'm speaking anyway, take it or leave it. I don't know your husband, but from what I've read in here, I certainly don't like him. I read what you did, and while it's not great, it's not like he caught you in bed with his father... I just can't believe the way he is acting over this. I lost my fourth child at 10.5 weeks. I don't know why, and neither does the doctor. I was devastated. When I got pregnant again, I was irrational as all h*ll. I wouldn't allow anyone other than my husband to know until I was around five months along, because I was so afraid I would lose this one, too, and I just didn't think I could take it if anyone knew. It wasn't that I thought people would think badly of me, it was I didn't want the sympathy or the pity or whatever, I thought it would drive me insane. If I had started going through with this child what I had gone through with the previous one, I don't know if I would have said anything, I don't even know if I would have gone to the doctor. This is hard on both the parents, but it's worse on the mother, because along with the loss, there's also the hormones throwing your body and your emotions out of whack. Factor in what happens when you go through a miscarriage and then having to face another one.... I just don't get why your husband is being IMO such an A$$! The only thing Yas understands about miscarrages, is the miscarriage of justice. That said, I was extremely pleased to find this post on my review of your thread today. It really lends insight to the ill-informed on the perspective of the woman caught in the "miscarriage jam" - and truly - that it is HER perspective that is the MOST IMPORTANT ONE, cause it's HER BODY, PERIOD. If you don't like that opinion, too bad. Link to post Share on other sites
Yasuandio Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) Today, post that reveling deiscussion you had with you husband, that I dissected above, isn't it interesting that your posters have presented you with several differnet positions. I think you should seriously consideral all of them. Let's take an annoted look at some suggested options based on PAGE 18: Eeyore1981: You have groveled at his feet for forgiveness [long enough], stop walking on eggshells. Tojaz, Option A: "Damage Control," where you continue to live in a sort of limbo - keeping the status quo. Tojaz Option B: "Full Frontal Assualt," where you give hime what he asks for - basically, you STOP being his wife. No longer make a serving place for him at dinner, when lights are out - door is locked. Trippi: Consequences of decision. Done. Serve him. Yas: Stop Apologizing. Stop Expressing Your Undying Love. Stop Talking. Stop Questions. Stop Calling/Texting. Don't bug him at work. See attorney. Arrange for a separation agreement where he leaves premises to live like a single person for awhile. (My Latest Updated Version). Actually Allie, I like bits and parts of all of these suggestions. But it is up to you. I belong to this interesting website called "Change Anything." I think that it is time for you to implement a new CHANGE strategy that might include one or a combination of any of the above. One thing you must take into consideration: your "Change" provoked immature child-like behavior in your husband. Your continued "Change" in responding like a mature adult - and expressing exactly what you expect in your marriage has now provoked immature, child-like threats from your husband (i.e., he states his position is to divorce you). The problem is, that, this child-like threat is coming from an adult, and interestingly enough, is the same immature mistake that you made - that got the two of you in this mess to start with. So -- tooche, the score is even. I think, from this analysis, we can conclude that there is still one piece of data mising from the puzzle -- and that is a mature, adult-like response from your husband. IOW, the jury may still be out on whether he really "means it or not." That is, LIMBO-LAND. Perhaps the way he most enjoys it, for some strange reason. I am with eeyore on this one, you must stop walking on eggshells. Then too, from my point of view, I would say, it is no use trying to curry favor, nor sympathy, if he is ego-gaming. I present a compromise. What does the panel think of this idea: I think Allie needs to collect the final missing piece of data, when husband is most receptive to a DIRECT QUESTION. She should confront him, quite seriously, and ask him, to repeat if he meant what he said about a divorce still being on the table, and that nothing has changed. A "yes" or "no" response, period. An answer of "maybe" is a "yes," as far as Allie's and her daughter's needs are concerned. From this answer, Allie will more easily navigate herself through the waters of Limbo, and hopefully arrive at a decisive point that is in her best interest (because she's sure not getting anywhere right now). YAS Edited July 30, 2012 by Yasuandio Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 What Im fastly realizing is H feels indifferent towards me. They say thats the opposite of love and its a real warning sign marriage is in trouble. Im thinking this indifference is a defense tatic kinda like if he isnt invested in me and dd he cant get hurt again typeof thing. This is what i think is going on. Sure he hasnt left yet because he isnt 100% sure but hes built walls and they are thick. He had said to me when i threatened divorce that He gave me his heart and i threw it in his face. And he wasnt giving it back to me. So he obviously did give it back buta month later he finds out i lied so his defenses are up again..maybe for good who knows. I read a little about indifference online and from what Im seeing space isnt the answer but neither is arguing etc or in my case questioning him constantly. Instead ive read that ppl become this way because they just think things wont change and thats kinda profound because he told me that he didnt think anything would change. I read to try to change the indifference by making him see things can change (prove there wont be more lies on my end) Meaning ive gotta get a flipping grip on my insecurities and stop making them his issues. And asking him everyday about it. I read toi need to reengage him to. Any thoughts on indifferance? I know limbo isnt a position i want to be in by more than that I know that I will Not try everything to save a marriage. Call me craxy but at this point what do i have to lose? I havent 100% done anything except give him space and i think that was to much space. Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Wow lots of typing eras i meant i will not not try to do everything to save it Link to post Share on other sites
Yasuandio Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Since I have my head wrapped around you right now, I will bite. I don't think there is anythink indifferent about your husband's statements regarding a divorce. Nor do I think the conversation you were directing with him demonstrated any indiffernece - instead, I think his responses are concerning - not indifferent in the least. What is indiffent is in your perceptions only - and I think you are panicking, and scared, and your perceptions could possibly be scewed. It may be a good idea to read, digest, and respond closely to all of these responses you have gotten from Eeyaore, Trippi, Tojaz, and others on pages 17 & 18. Yas Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 I def will review and ponder all suggestions. I just think h feels indifference toward me. He actually said he felt that too. He also said yesterday he wasnt cold to daughter he was indifferent yet he was quick to point out that she walks right by without saying a word too. Link to post Share on other sites
eeyore1981 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Well, Allie, while this may have the added benefit of getting your husband back, this post is aimed at you and you feeling better about you, your life, and yourself. Seriously, quit living like this. There is a whole world out there. There is fun to be had, if only you are willing to have it. If you could choose between sitting at home, waiting, wondering where your husband is, what he's doing and who he's with, vs. going out with some friends, maybe go bowling or to a movie, take off your shoes and run through some sprinklers and LYAO, what would you rather do? Because guess what, you CAN choose!!!! The first few times will be hard, and you still might not feel like you're having much fun, but sooner than you think, you WILL be having fun. If you can afford it, go someplace you've always wanted to see. If not, get a bike and ride down a hill with no hands, get some roller skates and learn how to twirl, hell, get a hula hoop and have contests with your daughter to see who can keep it up the longest... Learn a new language and amaze all your friends, learn how to make maple flavored bacon cupcakes and feed all your friends...invite people over for dinner, have a cookout, tell your husband he's welcome to join you... Start LIVING your life and really mean it! Before you know it, you'll have a real smile on your face, you'll have a sparkle in your eye (I can almost hear the 'ding' of it, lol) you'll be radiating joy, and let me tell you something, people are drawn to those things like metal to a magnet. If it turns out your husband is immune, so be it. It will still hurt if he leaves, but not as much. Don't you want to be happy, Allie? If you do, quit waiting around for your husband, and make it for yourself. Life is all in the way you look at it, and your days are going by whether you are miserable or having a good time. You have a kid, girl, you know how easy it is to have fun with a kid? Link to post Share on other sites
tojaz Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Allie, putting it as simple as I can. If he's indifferent, you have nothing to lose, but can regain yourself. If he isn't then you have everything to gain. Read the sig below! TOJAZ Link to post Share on other sites
jmjacobs31 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Well this Am it went sour! I asked H if he went to races and he got smart with me and i let him know i just didnt think him coming home at 3am was good married behavior. He said he doesnt care what i think he stopped by his friends and was hanging out. I said its not fair to be living a single life when your married. He screamed at me and i told him maybe its time he makes a move toward his goal because my dd and i cant do this any longer. He said just so i know nothings changed and he wants out still. I said thats sad i really had hoped wed work things out and he said no because im a liar! He said you lied right to my face and i cant believe anything you say anymore. He said this whole situation sucks and its your fault. He said all i do is try to find evidence hes cheating and hes not! I told him i had hopedhed understand and forgive me. That he wouldnt judge me on amonths worth of mistakes. Or throw our marriage away on a months worth of mistakes. He didnt say anything else. alliekat, Ive been reading over some of your posts today and have so many questions/thoughts for you. Why are you still doing this to yourself? Why are you allowing yourself to be in so much pain and suffering over this situation? Why are you allowing your H to have complete control over this situation and your feelings. I think deep down you know that this marriage is over, so why hold on to some threads to try and keep it going. Relationships take two people to work and its pretty obvious from your husbands actions this is not something he wants. The sooner you get out and start to move on the better you will feel and begin to heal. Do you want to live in his limbo land forever? I spent about a month in limbo land with my ex and is was pure hell, and when looking back on the situation I know he wanted out day one. Limbo land might be the hardest place to be. I think you just need to take a step back and see the reality of the situation. Try to take as much emotion out of this as possible and do what is best for you and your daughter. Once you know its over, and hes out of the house I promise you it will start to get better. You need to surround yourself with people that love you and will support you through this tough time. First thing you need to do is make your husband leave. Its not doing any good having him at the house. If he came home to you telling him he has to move out he might crap his pants! Right now he has all the control over this situation and if you take that away from him you will feel much better. Stop letting him have this hold over you and become a stronger, better woman! Link to post Share on other sites
Author AllieKat Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 Uh another day- im not sure how to make H leave? The lease isin both our names and we cant break it unless the other one signs off to it then we have to have realtor run credit and income and make sure the left lease holder can afford it. If either of us just leaves we are still responsible for the rent if other doesnt pay. Im sure there is some other way but in June Italked to realtor and she said that even divorce doesnt break the lease! He has refused to leave. Link to post Share on other sites
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