Forgiveness

[tojaz]

Oh my another day of stuff! With everything H has said its funny to me how everytime i call him he answers, when i text he responds instantly. Yet he doesnt care? Men are confusing!! Lol i can only imagine how they feel about us!

 

My plan of action is to not engage in anymore fights with H! I will not do that anymore its not going to help anything. Im hoping at this point to get back to being civil (which H was today on phone) but at home tonight hes moody and seems irritated. I would at least like to be friends if nothing else. Afterall hes been my best friend for 10 years!!

 

Lets call it "standing" for your marriage rather then fighting to avoid any confusion, I would never suggest you have a fight with him.

 

I suppose men can be confusing, but i think your H is a special case. He has had me quite frustrated at times and i am just a bystander, i could not imagine what it is like in the thick of things for you.

 

So if the goal is civility, there have been times when he has been quite civil for extended periods, if you look back at your thread, maybe there is some sort of pattern there.

 

TOJAZ

[shiftman]

Whether you choose to use the term "fighting for" or "standing for" becomes a matter of semantics. The underlying sentiment is the same.

 

Unless the parties are equally committed to resolving the issue, the issue will remain unresolved.

 

90% plus 10% = 100%

70% plus 30% = 100%

50% plus 50% = 100%

 

Only one of the above is a fair and equitable distribution of responsibility.

[AllieKat]

Well, according to H he has no desire to resolve this. So maybe im fighting/ standing for something thats not going anywhere? Its so hard for me to understand where hes coming from. I know trust is important in a marriage but i just dont get how hurt he is and how much he did love me how he is just done! So im oversimplifing, because he told me he has tried desperatly to get over this and has thought of everyway to work this out which is kinda funny to me because hes telling me this the other day right as hes saying he feels nothing for me. Well if you feel nothing why on earth you be trying to find a way to trust me and work through this??

[tojaz]

Well, according to H he has no desire to resolve this. So maybe im fighting/ standing for something thats not going anywhere? Its so hard for me to understand where hes coming from. I know trust is important in a marriage but i just dont get how hurt he is and how much he did love me how he is just done! So im oversimplifing, because he told me he has tried desperatly to get over this and has thought of everyway to work this out which is kinda funny to me because hes telling me this the other day right as hes saying he feels nothing for me. Well if you feel nothing why on earth you be trying to find a way to trust me and work through this??

 

Like i told you before Allie, you have to trust actions over words because his words make no sense and haven't made sense for quite some time. If he felt nothing for you, he wouldn't be asking DD where mommy is, if he felt nothing, you wouldn't have his buddy telling you how miserable he is.

 

I'm sure hes tried to reason a lot of things out over this time, but hes missing the biggest piece. The only way he can find a way to trust you again.... is to put you in a position to be trusted.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

Today I spoke with H's grandma, she had emailed me last night and had fallen and hurt herself. So i called her to see how she was and she informed me H emailed her an email this am saying that he heard she was trying to help me "fix" our marriage. I couldnt believe he would send that to his grandma when shes sick and where did he get this info? Then it occured to me her email to me was about that she hopes our marriage will work out and what can she do to help. So im thinking he had to of got into my email and seen it!

 

I feel bad for his grandma and am angry he would email about that when shes been sick. Then im also thinking why is he snopping in my email? I have nothing to hide but for someone again who doesnt care its an odd action.

[tojaz]

Today I spoke with H's grandma, she had emailed me last night and had fallen and hurt herself. So i called her to see how she was and she informed me H emailed her an email this am saying that he heard she was trying to help me "fix" our marriage. I couldnt believe he would send that to his grandma when shes sick and where did he get this info? Then it occured to me her email to me was about that she hopes our marriage will work out and what can she do to help. So im thinking he had to of got into my email and seen it!

 

I feel bad for his grandma and am angry he would email about that when shes been sick. Then im also thinking why is he snopping in my email? I have nothing to hide but for someone again who doesnt care its an odd action.

 

hes looking for something to prove or possibly disprove his mistrust.

 

What do you plan to do with that information?

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

And...this information..what to do with it? My suggestion, put it on the back burner. You've snooped too...so what? There is a difference between fighting and standing, one is reaction, the other is action. It's not just as much HIS actions, but yours as well.

[AllieKat]

hes looking for something to prove or possibly disprove his mistrust.

 

What do you plan to do with that information?

 

TOJAZ

 

I dont know what to do with it! I honestly dont mind that he snopped at all, i have too but honestly it doesnt bother me in the least i am bothered by him emaili g his grandma when shes sick. But i cant do anything about that, i just feel bad

[tojaz]

My first instinct is to suggest you let him know that you know about his snooping. Not in a confrontational way since it doesn't bother you and you have nothing to hide.

 

More of just a matter of fact thing. Then just let him know that you understand why he would want to check up on you, assure him that you have nothing to hide, and offer him anything else he might want to check up on to put his mind at ease. All done very politely and very gently (as in choose your words very carefully!).

 

Not sure if that's the right instinct because your situation is unique Allie, but seems to me if his biggest stumbling block is trust, then any opportunity to help him build that trust would be a good thing.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

That could work..... I think the thing that intriques me is hes not a snopper at all but i havent changed my password since we fought so its easy to see how hed get in im just suprised but there is really no other way he could know his grandma was trying to help since when i did call her i called her from work so all i can do is he saw my email.

 

I guess i get my hopes up a tad cause i feel like he cares still if he doung that. You know during these crazy times you kinda hang on to anything that coukd be hope.

[tojaz]

That could work..... I think the thing that intriques me is hes not a snopper at all but i havent changed my password since we fought so its easy to see how hed get in im just suprised but there is really no other way he could know his grandma was trying to help since when i did call her i called her from work so all i can do is he saw my email.

 

I guess i get my hopes up a tad cause i feel like he cares still if he doung that. You know during these crazy times you kinda hang on to anything that coukd be hope.

 

It certainly could work. You already know hes checking up based on his conversation with DD you posted awhile back. Since theres nothing for him to find, let him look. Words vs. Actions works both ways, you can tell him all you want that you can be trusted, but for him to be able to see it at will is something completely different.

 

Hope is a good thing Allie, and I hold a lot of hope for you too.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

Thx Tojaz! :-) i believe til the divorce is final there is hope! I don't believe for one second he is over me but I do believe he is so hurt he would end things! I think Ive finally realized hes not cheating, and nothing I say will make him makeup with me. If its ever going to happen its going to have to be actions he sees, and even at that hes going to have to feel 100% safe to come out of the shell hes put himself in.

 

At this point I'm not sure if there is anything I can do to be trustworthy. If we interacted it might be easier but our interaction is small and scarce.

[tojaz]

Thx Tojaz! :-) i believe til the divorce is final there is hope! I don't believe for one second he is over me but I do believe he is so hurt he would end things! I think Ive finally realized hes not cheating, and nothing I say will make him makeup with me. If its ever going to happen its going to have to be actions he sees, and even at that hes going to have to feel 100% safe to come out of the shell hes put himself in.

 

At this point I'm not sure if there is anything I can do to be trustworthy. If we interacted it might be easier but our interaction is small and scarce.

 

You don't have to do anything special Allie, just keep going. Anything you "do" to appear to be trustworthy is going to come off as fake and there for UNtrustworthy. Like I said, you have nothing to hide. Just keep being as transparent as you have been so that when he decides to look again (and he will) what ever he decides to look at will prove your point for you.

 

You might find that your lack of formal interaction will speak louder then anything you might say to one another.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

Tojaz do you really think i dont need to do anything to prove trustworthiness? Not sure how i would anyway when he doesnt acknowledge my presence ortbe fact im even alive!

 

I know he isnt looking to see if im cheating i think if what he says is true he would be looking to see if im lying. Not sure what hell find in emails about that.

[tojaz]

Allie, what is your first instinct when someone proclaims how much you can trust them??? Conjures up pictures of used car salesmen and politicians for me.

 

If you feel the need to do something, i would just do like I said before. Let him know that its ok for him to check up on you, that you have nothing to hide, and offer him full access and transparency any time he wants it.

 

This may sound familiar because it is common advice to cheaters and a common request for the cheated on. This is nowhere near that situation, but serves the same purpose, gives him the opportunity to build trust.... if he chooses to use it.

 

His convo with DD where he asked where you were would be a good conversation starter. Tell him you know he asked, tell him where you were, and then take it from there.

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

Hi Allie - What Tojaz is telling you is very good advice, I sort of knew where he was going when he mentioned this the other day and it makes perfect sense in your situation. While this is common advice and what a lot of counselors suggests in a matter of infidelity, transparency builds trust back, and can be followed in your situation.

 

I can tell you from the other side of a person who has lost trust in another person, you have to try and do this in a non-confrontational way. It's about being open, honest and yes, transparent. It may take a couple of attempts and your husband may feel confused by what you are doing at first, but give it a couple of shots. You have nothing to lose.

 

I have a lot of issues that your husband has when it comes to trust and dealing with dishonesty, so I can tell you that this is very good advice on what it would take to regain trust in a relationship.

[AllieKat]

Well i said to H that dd had said he wanted to know where i was the other night so i told him i went to drop off a shirt to my friend. He looked at me rolled his eyes and said why are you telling me this, i could careless. I said oh i just thought since you asked id let you know he gave me a weird look and said whatever.

 

Today was my dd first game. He ignored me and those idiots stared at me and were cold just like i thought. I felt like a real idiot. While my h ofcourse stayed away from me like a jerk

[trippi1432]

You took a step Allie..it's going to appear strange to him at first. Right now it's not a "you do this and he reciprocates or gets it"....you keep making the positive steps until you are truly done, it is going to take time and actions on your side of transparency.

 

So, you went to your daughter's game....who cares what other people are doing or thinking? That's your daughter out there...she is who she is because of you, not just him, not because of the game and certainly not because of an association of busy bodies. I think you have already thought that, already know that...but where is your focus?

[AllieKat]

Your right trippi that is my daughter and honestly shes all that matters. Its just hurtful for her and i to not have him involved. Thats just something i guess well deal with.

 

As far as other actions to build on any ideas what else i can do?

[trippi1432]

I know it's not easy Allie, and the frustration of it all can build up, but I would say that you need to continue doing the things with your daughter that you all used to do as a family. Let him decide how he wants to participate and just keep being open and transparent. Consistency......actions, that helps to build trust.

[tojaz]

Well i said to H that dd had said he wanted to know where i was the other night so i told him i went to drop off a shirt to my friend. He looked at me rolled his eyes and said why are you telling me this, i could careless. I said oh i just thought since you asked id let you know he gave me a weird look and said whatever.

 

Today was my dd first game. He ignored me and those idiots stared at me and were cold just like i thought. I felt like a real idiot. While my h ofcourse stayed away from me like a jerk

 

The important thing is he heard it, regardless of his response, you cannot trust his responses because they are designed to create distance and display himself being resolute in his decision. If he could care less.... he wouldn't have asked.

 

In looking for something to build off of, I would look back at the posts about staying active and getting out of the house. Its good for you, as has already been discussed, but also gives H more opportunity to wonder where you are etc.

 

As for the idiots staring at you, a polite "I noticed you looking, may i help you with something?" should resolve that in short order.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

Not much new here but I decided to leave my email signed in today on pc at home in the event H wanted to see! I wonder if I've slipped back into a bad habit though? I am keeping very busy but when I'm home with Hubby I have been staying in my room or in dds room. Is this bad?

I guess I did it because we fought and fought last tuesday and then thursday I had been over by his work and called him and he said i was a stalker :-(! Truth is the lady I work for had me take her son death certificates and her son hapens to live 2 miles from hubbys new job. That same day he also commented again about me hiding in room, but when i asked him why do you care if i hide he replied he didnt care that it actually helped him not be bothered by me!

 

I dont talk to him much anymore. Today i did briefly because upon leaving work I had a flat... Lol oh the tires!! Lol so he aired it up and then said hed have to do something and he called dealership. But he ofcourse acted

Like i was killing him to ask him anything. He has really been sticking around home too lately. But he just sits on couch staring at tv looking depressed, its clear hes deeply unhappy. Not sure if its cause of our marriage souring or because im here and my presence makes him unhappy

[tojaz]

Not much new here but I decided to leave my email signed in today on pc at home in the event H wanted to see! I wonder if I've slipped back into a bad habit though? I am keeping very busy but when I'm home with Hubby I have been staying in my room or in dds room. Is this bad?

I guess I did it because we fought and fought last tuesday and then thursday I had been over by his work and called him and he said i was a stalker :-(! Truth is the lady I work for had me take her son death certificates and her son hapens to live 2 miles from hubbys new job. That same day he also commented again about me hiding in room, but when i asked him why do you care if i hide he replied he didnt care that it actually helped him not be bothered by me!

 

I dont talk to him much anymore. Today i did briefly because upon leaving work I had a flat... Lol oh the tires!! Lol so he aired it up and then said hed have to do something and he called dealership. But he ofcourse acted

Like i was killing him to ask him anything. He has really been sticking around home too lately. But he just sits on couch staring at tv looking depressed, its clear hes deeply unhappy. Not sure if its cause of our marriage souring or because im here and my presence makes him unhappy

 

What did he comment on you hiding away in your room?

 

I wouldn't say hiding away is "bad" but I don't really see it being good for you either, plus i don't see a reason why you should have to hide inside your own house due to a bad situation that he is creating. If he doesn't want to be bothered, then let him hide.

 

I'm sure hes depressed, sometimes it's hard to remember that these situations are hard and very taxing for both sides. Hes going through a lot of the same emotions you are Allie, hes just interpreting them differently.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

yes he commented on me hiding in room! I guess its cause our place is small and its not like im goung to go sit with him and watch the stuff he does or turn the channel so i go in my room and watch tv or read or i hang with daughter

[AllieKat]

So i cant help wondering whose crazy? This am Hubby sends me a text about he just wanted me to know how much we have in the bank. Money has been tight this week with a ton of expenses and all our normal bills. So we were close to only having a little extra. I knew about what we have so he wasnt telling me anything new so i didnt respond. It wasnt like he asked me a question rather he was just stating a fact. I didnt want to jump and respond and thank him like i would normally probably due. So he sends another text saying he didnt know if i had paid a bill this am or last night but if i did and i didnt deduct it that would make us have even less then the number he gave.

 

Well seeing as hes sleeping next to pc in living room he ought to know i didnt do squar last night but this am i was on pclooking at our electric seeing what the bill will be, as was i on my email and the bank. I logged out of bank but left sign in page up and left my email logged in incase he wanted to peek. So he clearly sawi was on there. Needless to say i text him then back to let him know i hadnt paid anything else but that i had been looking at bank and the electric bill online this am.

 

He texts me back and says thats all fine i just wanted to make sure you were aware of what we hadin bank! I feel like he is looking for a reason to text me and this is all he can come up with... Upon coming home he did up all the dishes and cleaned up the entire kitchen. I dont get him hes so hard to figure out. Youd think on his day off hed be going to lawyer to get info on divorce not doing dishes and taking trash out.....