Forgiveness

[tojaz]

Uh another day- im not sure how to make H leave?

He has refused to leave.

 

Now you are trying to make him leave Allie?

[trippi1432]

Actually Allie - if you were serious about him moving out and this being over, the lease wouldn't be an excuse. Since you are married, the responsibility of the property may in fact be half of your responsibility.....so BE RESPONSIBLE.

 

Your realtor cares less about who lives in the property as long as they have jobs, pass the credit test and can afford the property. So, live up to your obligation as a renter and take out an ad in the paper for a sub-lease. If your husband doesn't want to move....so be it. Find him a nice roommate to settle down with....I'm thinking a nice, older gentleman with a lot of back hair and poor hygiene would be perfect.

 

But seriously.....if he has refused to leave then tell him he must be standing for his marriage meaning he intends to work on this and stop being an a**clown (my word, and you can freely borrow it). He has made his intentions clear more than once now...it's no longer a simple threat. The fact here is, if he is honest in it being over then HE is the one that needs to make it so by moving on and moving out.

 

“She knew with painful certainty that the opposite of love was not hate, but indifference.”

― Susan Wiggs, Summer by the Sea

 

Indifference gets thrown around a lot....that's a strong statement above and can be very true in a lot of circumstances. Sorry, but I don't think he is indifferent, if he admitted that he hated you it would an evocation of emotion meaning he still felt something, so he's not going to admit that...it's much deeper to say indifferent, it's much harder to actually be indifferent. For men, I would say that they get lost in their pride and ego to find indifference...for women, they grieve until they are indifferent.

 

I don't think your husband is acting on his own, I believe he has gotten much advice...just like you....from friends, websites...etc. When a couple who really cares about each other start letting other people....even anonymous ones....run their lives, they lose because they are not standing together. Sometimes you have to offer a choice Allie, because to live in limbo is no life, and if they can't make the choice to be in the marriage, you may have to do the heavy lifting to make that choice for them.

 

Don't get me wrong here, I'm still not saying he is totally wrong....where he is today is where the same words he is telling you now are the ones he heard from you previously. Two wrongs have never made a right, sometimes you get forgiveness by giving it to the one you seek it from first. It takes two people who want to be together to see that.

[AllieKat]

Now you are trying to make him leave Allie?

 

No not trying to make him leave, just a short response to the above posters thoughts about making him leave. Though i had asked him before to go and he wouldnt and honestly that is something ive wondered about in the event things cont this way.

[AllieKat]

Actually Allie - if you were serious about him moving out and this being over, the lease wouldn't be an excuse. Since you are married, the responsibility of the property may in fact be half of your responsibility.....so BE RESPONSIBLE.

 

Your realtor cares less about who lives in the property as long as they have jobs, pass the credit test and can afford the property. So, live up to your obligation as a renter and take out an ad in the paper for a sub-lease. If your husband doesn't want to move....so be it. Find him a nice roommate to settle down with....I'm thinking a nice, older gentleman with a lot of back hair and poor hygiene would be perfect.

 

But seriously.....if he has refused to leave then tell him he must be standing for his marriage meaning he intends to work on this and stop being an a**clown (my word, and you can freely borrow it). He has made his intentions clear more than once now...it's no longer a simple threat. The fact here is, if he is honest in it being over then HE is the one that needs to make it so by moving on and moving out.

 

“She knew with painful certainty that the opposite of love was not hate, but indifference.”

― Susan Wiggs, Summer by the Sea

 

Indifference gets thrown around a lot....that's a strong statement above and can be very true in a lot of circumstances. Sorry, but I don't think he is indifferent, if he admitted that he hated you it would an evocation of emotion meaning he still felt something, so he's not going to admit that...it's much deeper to say indifferent, it's much harder to actually be indifferent. For men, I would say that they get lost in their pride and ego to find indifference...for women, they grieve until they are indifferent.

 

I don't think your husband is acting on his own, I believe he has gotten much advice...just like you....from friends, websites...etc. When a couple who really cares about each other start letting other people....even anonymous ones....run their lives, they lose because they are not standing together. Sometimes you have to offer a choice Allie, because to live in limbo is no life, and if they can't make the choice to be in the marriage, you may have to do the heavy lifting to make that choice for them.

 

Don't get me wrong here, I'm still not saying he is totally wrong....where he is today is where the same words he is telling you now are the ones he heard from you previously. Two wrongs have never made a right, sometimes you get forgiveness by giving it to the one you seek it from first. It takes two people who want to be together to see that.

 

Theres alot of great insight in here! On Sun I told him its time he moves toward his goal because this situation isnt good for dd. i let him what my wishes are to recon. And he just ofcourse said he was done. Needless to say H has been avoiding me since then.

[tojaz]

Well Allie, in all this time weve talked about a lot of things and you've tried many things. One things seems far to apparent, and thats if your situation is going to change, its going to have to come from you. Hes far to comfortable where he is right now.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

Well Allie, in all this time weve talked about a lot of things and you've tried many things. One things seems far to apparent, and thats if your situation is going to change, its going to have to come from you. Hes far to comfortable where he is right now.

 

TOJAZ

 

I think your right and I think thats partof hisplan to to make me be the one that leaves or makes the move toward D. I think I'm almost numb now I just cant believe this is what has become of us. Not sure what to do

[AllieKat]

I forgot to add H said sunday he was "status quo" but yet he said the situation sucks

[eeyore1981]

I think your right and I think thats partof hisplan to to make me be the one that leaves or makes the move toward D. I think I'm almost numb now I just cant believe this is what has become of us. Not sure what to do

 

As far as you filing or trying to determine living arrangements, if this isn't something you want to do, then don't. If he wants the divorce and you don't, then if it happens, let him be the one to take the steps to make it happen.

[tojaz]

I think your right and I think thats partof hisplan to to make me be the one that leaves or makes the move toward D. I think I'm almost numb now I just cant believe this is what has become of us. Not sure what to do

 

You take back control Allie. Not of him, but that isn't a choice you have, but you do get to decide how his actions effect you and how long you allow that condition to continue.

 

I'm not saying file, but you don't have to sit by while he does as he pleases. You have done all you can for him, you have apologized, you have tried to better yourself, tried to earn his trust.

 

You've spent months living for him, time to do whats best for Allie and let him find his place wherever he chooses it top be.

 

TOJAZ

[Yasuandio]

Oh, Dear. Oh, Dear. When I look at this crap, and I think about how my Mom just died tonight, I wonder - how can we get so obsessed with such BS.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Yasuandio

[tojaz]

Sorry to hear about your Mom Yas.

[AllieKat]

Yas- I'm sorry about your Mom! ((Hugs))

[Yasuandio]

Tojaz: Take back control. Regret lasts forever.

 

Yas: Separated December '08 (should have been much sooner than that). Hopefully the Divorce will proceed this August 20. That makes over 3.5 years I have allowed myself to be in limbo, wondering, analyzing, reading "How to Get Your Ex Back" articles.

 

JMjacobs: Do you want to be in Limbo Land Forever?

 

EEyore: Start living again. Get around people, friends. soon, it will feel fun, and you will enjoy. (Annoted)

 

Yas: Spent years alone. Just in last months finding "acceptance." Beginning projects and hobbies she once loved. Finially.

 

Trippi: Don't kid yourself. BE RESPONSIBLE. Move forward.

 

JMJacobs: Stop letting him have this hold over you and become a better stonger woman (model this for your daughter as well).

 

It can be done. Take the advice from Yas who has blown 3.5 years emmersed in denial. She have read every article and book from Narcissism to Indifference. It makes really no difference what you read or analyze. You are in control of only yourself, and how you respond. There are no "Either," "ands, or "buts" about it. Anly the NIKE commercial - JUST DO IT.

 

For Yas, it took just another huge crisis to "get it." At the funeral home yesterday, we were writing the newpaper obituary for Mother. I made sure "our" Greek names were spelled properly. I even re-edited to include Husband's complete middle name. We were just re-vamping an old obituary we had used in 1999 when Grandma died. When I looked at the final version, and saw my 12 letter last name repeated twice - I realized how stupid I was to include husband as a mourner. He is not here. He does not know Mother is dead. When I voiced mailed him she was gravely ill - he never responded.

 

Therefore - I had such an awakening - and had the young lady erase his name from the obituary entirely. I have no intentions of informing him of the services. He is no longer a member of this family.

 

I am not thread stealing. I am demonstrating to you how difficult it is to cut a cancer away - the longer you leave it attached to you, via a real life experience. The longer you let this cancer grow - the more psyched out you insecure you will become. Listen to the range of outstanding advice you are receiving here on this thread.

 

I so wish I had your opportunity to reach out with every detail of my story so I could receeive the direction you have been getting. However - the litagationsurrounding in my case makes it impossible for me to discuss my matter.

 

I want you to really study much harder and more carefully these responses you are receiving Allie. Do not respond so quickly and off the cuff. The responses you have gotten are golden -- people have given a lot of time and thought. I suggect you take them one at a time - study, absorb, and then respond point by point. This may be a way for you to grow. I hope this post helps you. Carol

[AllieKat]

I have read and reread my threads and all the feedback, trying to figure it all out. Make no mistake I am a mother first and that is my first obligation to protect my sweet dd! Through this weve become closer than ever and for that Im grateful!

 

In being honest I'm not sure of my next move. Its crossed my mind to move out but I feel like he should leave. I'm taking the next days or so to really think this all through because in the past I've acted then thought and that didnt get me anywhere. I do feel stronger then I did and I do know I'll be ok. However I still would prefer to recon. Ofcourse! Ive read so much stuff that Ive thought oh yeah thats it.. And then second guessed and thought no maybe not.

 

I think H has emotionally shut down to me and dd and probably because thats his way in his mind of protected himself, nevertheless its a selfish move and just living status quo isnt healthy. I can figure out why hed be ok with that!

[tojaz]

I have read and reread my threads and all the feedback, trying to figure it all out. Make no mistake I am a mother first and that is my first obligation to protect my sweet dd! Through this weve become closer than ever and for that Im grateful!

 

In being honest I'm not sure of my next move. Its crossed my mind to move out but I feel like he should leave. I'm taking the next days or so to really think this all through because in the past I've acted then thought and that didnt get me anywhere. I do feel stronger then I did and I do know I'll be ok. However I still would prefer to recon. Ofcourse! Ive read so much stuff that Ive thought oh yeah thats it.. And then second guessed and thought no maybe not.

 

I think H has emotionally shut down to me and dd and probably because thats his way in his mind of protected himself, nevertheless its a selfish move and just living status quo isnt healthy. I can figure out why hed be ok with that!

 

 

I doubt hes ok with that Allie, but like you said it keeps him protected and safe, and in a place he feels comfortable. He has seen no consequences for his actions and reaped the benefits. He has no reason to make a move!

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

I doubt hes ok with that Allie, but like you said it keeps him protected and safe, and in a place he feels comfortable. He has seen no consequences for his actions and reaped the benefits. He has no reason to make a move!

 

TOJAZ

 

Any suggestions on consequences i could pass to him? I know one was a locked door. I do that as well as i dont leave lights on for him or make dinners for him anymore or but stuff he likes at store!

[tojaz]

Any suggestions on consequences i could pass to him? I know one was a locked door. I do that as well as i dont leave lights on for him or make dinners for him anymore or but stuff he likes at store!

 

Allie, I'm more the analytical type then the tactician type, so I'm not really sure on the specifics, and it is very hard to give this kind of advice without it turning into a manipulation contest of who can hurt the other more, thats not what I'm trying to say at all. << underlined because that is IMPORTANT!

 

I would say use him as an example as he has been trying very hard to pile consequences for your actions on you... and he has been very good at it.

 

Despite his being happy with "the status quo" there have been certain connections that he has tried to maintain. While he has separated himself from the emotional closeness and intimate parts of your relationship he has maintained and even escalated the caretaker role. Fixing your car was a prime example, even going so far as to repair something small that had been bugging you for some time. Tires etc. had become a mission with him and played a big role in the times that you both moved closer, because it was a way for him to be close, but on his own terms, it was a situation where he had total control. << not meant negatively!

 

What do you think might have happened had you told him not to touch your car and that you would handle those things yourself? Throw in that your going to have to learn to handle those things for yourself anyway and you have sent a clear message that his contribution is no longer welcome due to his decisions. It sets new boundaries in the new dynamic of the relationship, and it puts the message out they they are in response to his actions.

 

Right now he slips in and out of his role with you as he sees fit, engaging when he is comfortable and becoming scarce when he isn't. Remove his ability to decide when and how he fits into your life at will and he will be forced to decide where he wants to be.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

Uhhh gotcha!! Well that isnt really manipulative because its just me being independent again like I used to be. I used to take my car somewhere before he came along and they were great. Sure it will suck to pay for it but thats life!

[tojaz]

Uhhh gotcha!! Well that isnt really manipulative because its just me being independent again like I used to be. I used to take my car somewhere before he came along and they were great. Sure it will suck to pay for it but thats life!

 

The car is just a convenient example Allie, I am sure there are many opportunities available to you.

 

Imagine your life as a room with a door. Right now you allow him to walk in and out of that door as he pleases in the hopes that something good will come of it. Sometimes it does, and sometimes things aren't as pleasant.

 

The message your trying to get across is that due to his actions and squandering his privileges, that door now has a shiny new lock on it. Its not there to keep him out or to keep him in. It is there to let him know that he now has to knock and be invited in before entering.

 

Its not just you being independent, its you DECLARING your independence. These things are different for every person, may be as simple as parking in his spot or rearranging the house that will send the loudest message.

 

When I was stuck in the thick of it, I locked my door by asking my wife for the spare key to my truck of of her keyring. She never had the need to drive it, didn't even like to, but that key had been with her since the day I bought it. It was obviously not enough, but it sent a clear message, and it did have an effect on her to give it up.

 

TOJAZ

[jmjacobs31]

Tojaz: Take back control. Regret lasts forever.

 

Yas: Separated December '08 (should have been much sooner than that). Hopefully the Divorce will proceed this August 20. That makes over 3.5 years I have allowed myself to be in limbo, wondering, analyzing, reading "How to Get Your Ex Back" articles.

 

JMjacobs: Do you want to be in Limbo Land Forever?

 

EEyore: Start living again. Get around people, friends. soon, it will feel fun, and you will enjoy. (Annoted)

 

Yas: Spent years alone. Just in last months finding "acceptance." Beginning projects and hobbies she once loved. Finially.

 

Trippi: Don't kid yourself. BE RESPONSIBLE. Move forward.

 

JMJacobs: Stop letting him have this hold over you and become a better stonger woman (model this for your daughter as well).

 

It can be done. Take the advice from Yas who has blown 3.5 years emmersed in denial. She have read every article and book from Narcissism to Indifference. It makes really no difference what you read or analyze. You are in control of only yourself, and how you respond. There are no "Either," "ands, or "buts" about it. Anly the NIKE commercial - JUST DO IT.

 

For Yas, it took just another huge crisis to "get it." At the funeral home yesterday, we were writing the newpaper obituary for Mother. I made sure "our" Greek names were spelled properly. I even re-edited to include Husband's complete middle name. We were just re-vamping an old obituary we had used in 1999 when Grandma died. When I looked at the final version, and saw my 12 letter last name repeated twice - I realized how stupid I was to include husband as a mourner. He is not here. He does not know Mother is dead. When I voiced mailed him she was gravely ill - he never responded.

 

Therefore - I had such an awakening - and had the young lady erase his name from the obituary entirely. I have no intentions of informing him of the services. He is no longer a member of this family.

 

I am not thread stealing. I am demonstrating to you how difficult it is to cut a cancer away - the longer you leave it attached to you, via a real life experience. The longer you let this cancer grow - the more psyched out you insecure you will become. Listen to the range of outstanding advice you are receiving here on this thread.

 

I so wish I had your opportunity to reach out with every detail of my story so I could receeive the direction you have been getting. However - the litagationsurrounding in my case makes it impossible for me to discuss my matter.

 

I want you to really study much harder and more carefully these responses you are receiving Allie. Do not respond so quickly and off the cuff. The responses you have gotten are golden -- people have given a lot of time and thought. I suggect you take them one at a time - study, absorb, and then respond point by point. This may be a way for you to grow. I hope this post helps you. Carol

 

I am actually not in limbo land any longer. I am not in my own apartment. Limbo land was awful and I cant imagine being in it any longer then I did. I know I have a lot of work to do emotionally to become a stronger person, and I am trying. I am seeing a therapist, training for a marathon and trying to convince myself I dont need my ex. luckily I dont have any children so I dont have to have contact with him on a regular basis. I am taking one day at a time and slowly getting better.

[tojaz]

I am actually not in limbo land any longer. I am not in my own apartment. Limbo land was awful and I cant imagine being in it any longer then I did. I know I have a lot of work to do emotionally to become a stronger person, and I am trying. I am seeing a therapist, training for a marathon and trying to convince myself I dont need my ex. luckily I dont have any children so I dont have to have contact with him on a regular basis. I am taking one day at a time and slowly getting better.

 

Yas was quoting you

[M30USA]

I'm trying to forgive my STBXW for her physical violence even though she hasn't apologized or asked for forgiveness. I feel it's necessary that I forgive her in my heart so that I can have peace. Even if she thinks it was my fault that she hit me, I still need to forgive her. Any advice?

[AllieKat]

M30USA- i dont really have any great advice to offer but in my life Ive had some crazy stuff happen as a child/teen/adult some I can forgive and some I cant. I guess for me It comes down to intent. If i think or know someone purposedly did something to hurt me thats tough to forgive. I was molested as a child and I can say I will never forgive that crime. I dont let it define me though. In my situation now with H I want his forgiveness but I want to understand why I did what I did, not that it should be excused but my intent was not to hurt him.

 

I think we are all human and we all hurt one another its a life but I think its more important how we rise above the hurt! Just my two cents

[M30USA]

M30USA- i dont really have any great advice to offer but in my life Ive had some crazy stuff happen as a child/teen/adult some I can forgive and some I cant. I guess for me It comes down to intent. If i think or know someone purposedly did something to hurt me thats tough to forgive. I was molested as a child and I can say I will never forgive that crime. I dont let it define me though. In my situation now with H I want his forgiveness but I want to understand why I did what I did, not that it should be excused but my intent was not to hurt him.

 

I think we are all human and we all hurt one another its a life but I think its more important how we rise above the hurt! Just my two cents

 

If you don't mind me asking, what did you do to hurt him? I'm just curious because at least you can admit that men are hurt-able.

[tojaz]

I'm trying to forgive my STBXW for her physical violence even though she hasn't apologized or asked for forgiveness. I feel it's necessary that I forgive her in my heart so that I can have peace. Even if she thinks it was my fault that she hit me, I still need to forgive her. Any advice?

 

M30 you don't need her permission to forgive her, and you don't have to acknowledge her reasoning behind it to forgive her either. Heck she doesn't even need to accept your forgiveness outwardly really. Forgiveness is a gift you give in order to allow life to move on, and forgiveness given freely is the only real forgiveness.

 

Just tell her that you know she may not understand and that you don't really need her to, but its important to you that you can tell her that you forgive her for causing you hurt, and then move past it.

 

People that can't do that end up like Allies H, consumed by the anger and always keeping it at the forefront, for them life just sort of stops in that state, unable to go back and unwilling to move forward.

 

I think your in the right state of mind M30, if you can let it go (notice I don't say forget) first tell her you forgive her and then show her by letting it go.

 

TOJAZ