Forgiveness

[AllieKat]

Toj- I def afraid of what comes next! Im afraid to do anything because of what it may lead to. I feel like giving h a ultimatium or forcing his hand to do something isnt going to end well. Not to say that doing nothing will end well but im just not ready for a change. I guess id rather have him here distant then not have any of him. I guess im still hoping he get over this!

[tojaz]

Toj- I def afraid of what comes next! Im afraid to do anything because of what it may lead to. I feel like giving h a ultimatium or forcing his hand to do something isnt going to end well. Not to say that doing nothing will end well but im just not ready for a change. I guess id rather have him here distant then not have any of him. I guess im still hoping he get over this!

 

I know Allie, and i would never suggest you give up hope that he may wake up, or am i saying to get hard nosed with him and start throwing threats and ultimatums around.

 

Not sure if your a card player Allie, but I guess it can be a lot like poker. Your not really getting dealt cards you want to play, so your playing ultra conservative and just laying them down hoping better cards will come your way, but while your doing that your chips are slowly starting to dwindle with no end in sight. Eventually one of three things will happen. 1. You go broke. 2. You get extraordinarily lucky and get dealt a monster hand. 3. You forget about the cards and take a shot playing the person instead.

 

So far your h has been more then willing to kick back and watch this grind you down and has no signs of really even looking for some sort of resolution because hes got all he needs where hes at. Meanwhile you are wearing down by the day. It shows in your posts.

 

When someone comes out and drops the D bomb, its not without a lot of thought. Its not as sudden and spontaneous as it seems to the other party. The person doing the deed spends a lot of time in the shadows making that decision and once they do, it is very hard to persuade them otherwise, if for no other reason then they don't want the stress of the decision making process again. Yes its high risk, but at this point, you've been in limbo for months, he isn't going to have an epiphany unless something triggers it. Wait and see isn't going to do that, don't rock the boat isn't going to do that, status quo isn't going to do that either.

 

Unfortunately, the fate of your marriage is in his hands right now, but how long you sit by silently suffering in limbo is solely up to you. This thread is titled Forgiveness. Well, I once chose the silent suffering route, and I have never forgiven myself.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

I know Allie, and i would never suggest you give up hope that he may wake up, or am i saying to get hard nosed with him and start throwing threats and ultimatums around.

 

Not sure if your a card player Allie, but I guess it can be a lot like poker. Your not really getting dealt cards you want to play, so your playing ultra conservative and just laying them down hoping better cards will come your way, but while your doing that your chips are slowly starting to dwindle with no end in sight. Eventually one of three things will happen. 1. You go broke. 2. You get extraordinarily lucky and get dealt a monster hand. 3. You forget about the cards and take a shot playing the person instead.

 

So far your h has been more then willing to kick back and watch this grind you down and has no signs of really even looking for some sort of resolution because hes got all he needs where hes at. Meanwhile you are wearing down by the day. It shows in your posts.

 

When someone comes out and drops the D bomb, its not without a lot of thought. Its not as sudden and spontaneous as it seems to the other party. The person doing the deed spends a lot of time in the shadows making that decision and once they do, it is very hard to persuade them otherwise, if for no other reason then they don't want the stress of the decision making process again. Yes its high risk, but at this point, you've been in limbo for months, he isn't going to have an epiphany unless something triggers it. Wait and see isn't going to do that, don't rock the boat isn't going to do that, status quo isn't going to do that either.

 

Unfortunately, the fate of your marriage is in his hands right now, but how long you sit by silently suffering in limbo is solely up to you. This thread is titled Forgiveness. Well, I once chose the silent suffering route, and I have never forgiven myself.

 

TOJAZ

 

I guess im afraid ill do more harm if i make any moves. And im just not sure "what moves" to make! Thus far i havent thought of or heard any i think that i can do.

 

I think the only thing i disagree with in your post is dropping the D bomb! I dont think H thought this out prior at all. I really do think it was a sudden thing. He may have thought it out since but i think like me he just threw it out as a hurtful threat.

 

I will say this if he moved out today i would feel like i did what i could to save this. I dont want to play games with him i want to use this time wisely to rebuild the trust and cont to work on ME! Right now what i do know is H is consumed with hurt and anger for the lies i told him and hes not allowing himself to get passed it. I have forgiven myself and am working on me but hes stuck on feeling betrayed and im not sure what i can do to help that other than trying to rebuild trust. Hes keeping himself so busy so he doesnt have to deal with us. Hes essential avoiding the problem.

[tojaz]

I think the only thing i disagree with in your post is dropping the D bomb! I dont think H thought this out prior at all. I really do think it was a sudden thing. He may have thought it out since but i think like me he just threw it out as a hurtful threat.

 

This isn't the first time this has been an issue Allie, just the longest his treatment has lasted.

 

He was doing the same before the pregnancy and you mentioned in one of your other threads (I think your first one) that he had done something similar a year ago. I assure you these things have been on his mind.

 

If your going to try and work on this, or even yourself, you have to look at these things as a whole rather then just one isolated incident. That keeps you from the core. For pages and pages we have focused on the most recent flare up, but there is a lot that has come before that was swept under the rug.

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

I think the only thing i disagree with in your post is dropping the D bomb! I dont think H thought this out prior at all. I really do think it was a sudden thing. He may have thought it out since but i think like me he just threw it out as a hurtful threat.

 

This isn't the first time this has been an issue Allie, just the longest his treatment has lasted.

 

He was doing the same before the pregnancy and you mentioned in one of your other threads (I think your first one) that he had done something similar a year ago. I assure you these things have been on his mind.

 

If your going to try and work on this, or even yourself, you have to look at these things as a whole rather then just one isolated incident. That keeps you from the core. For pages and pages we have focused on the most recent flare up, but there is a lot that has come before that was swept under the rug.

 

TOJAZ

 

I'm going to agree on this as it was the first thing I thought when I read your reply Allie, I'm waiting for your reply before I comment anymore however. I've attempted to touch on some things here and there, but I think that you have started to become more introspective but introspective does not mean accepting the current status quo.

 

Living in the current status quo to not create an upset just to keep someone is not a healthy path. I'm not saying to do things to get a reaction, I'm actually saying to do things to move forward for you, your daughter and hopefully a healthy path for your marriage.

[eeyore1981]

Maybe you need a little lesson on the birds and the bees, but he was the other half of that babies life, he was the father of the child, so how dare you discredit how he felt. That baby was just as much his as was hers and so is emotions and lack of opportunity to grieve through deception.

 

I get what you're saying, but there are other factors involved you don't seem to be taking into account.

 

I'm somewhat of a daredevil. Personal safety doesn't play a large role in decisions I make. So imagine my horror when I was pregnant with my second child and I was terrified to cross a log over a body of water. The water was two feet deep at most and the log was very large and maybe a foot above the water. The crossing was around five feet across.

 

I couldn't even bring myself to just wade through the water. Once the fear hit, there was no reasoning with me whatsoever.

 

Hormones during pregnancy can really mess with a person's mind. I can give a lot more examples of irrational behavior on my part during a pregnancy, and I'm sure most mothers can join in with me.

 

I understand how the husband can feel so bad about what happened, but some of this was very likely out of OP's control, and that should be factored into what happened, but it doesn't seem like it is.

[tojaz]

Maybe you need a little lesson on the birds and the bees, but he was the other half of that babies life, he was the father of the child, so how dare you discredit how he felt. That baby was just as much his as was hers and so is emotions and lack of opportunity to grieve through deception.

 

Agreed, but that situation is just a small part of a much larger puzzle in this case and much of what you have said has already been discussed on Allies other threads.

 

ALLIE: been awhile, are you still lurking about?

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

Agreed, but that situation is just a small part of a much larger puzzle in this case and much of what you have said has already been discussed on Allies other threads.

 

ALLIE: been awhile, are you still lurking about?

 

TOJAZ

 

Yeah Im still lurking around! Not much new to report except for Ive been away from home since Tuesday. Im at beach with Dd.

[tojaz]

Yeah Im still lurking around! Not much new to report except for Ive been away from home since Tuesday. Im at beach with Dd.

 

Glad to hear it, you deserve a break. Have a great vacation Allie.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

Well im back from a little vacation back to my problems. Dh will talk but ofcourse im iniating convo. Got a call from his buddy who talked to him and tried to talk him into to working on marriage. DH told came right out and told buddy that he doesnt want to get hurt again and by distancing himself from me hes assured he wont let that happen! His buddy said my dh is miserable w/o me but it doesnt have to be like this so why does he do it? I mean if hes miserable why not work through this or at least try???

 

Ugh....im still just stuck not wanting to make waves yet wanting change. Thing is with all the suggestions that have been given nothing seems to fit or "feel right" i do want to add im not just avoiding making waves to keep him, i just feel like one bad or wrong move and ill make things worse.

 

Im missing the initimacy so much. Its been almost three months since and i feel very unloved and alone.

[AllieKat]

Talked to H! I suggested we do counseling again he refused. He said it all comes down to trust and he cant trust me. I told him id like the chance to try to rebuild trust but he said he knows he wont be able to trust me again so I guess thats it????? I told him then if thats the case he needs to go. He said is that what you want? I said no i want to work on this marriage, but if you dont then yes you need to go. He said fine ill start putting money aside to get a place!

 

 

Well for not wanting to make waves i did!!

[tojaz]

Its nothing you did Allie. You took back a little control of your life and made a step toward getting out of limbo, which was doing nothing but hurting you.

 

i think you handled quite well actually. You let him know that the door is open in very clear terms and left him the option to walk through it. If he is that set on remaining angry and hurt after all this time, there is nothing you, or even a counselor can do until he is willing to let himself move forward.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

Thx tojaz, weve been fighting all day! This time hes actually asked me questions unlike before. He told me his feelings for my dd dont matter because if he mantains relationship with her it means he has to deal with me and he is done with me! He even blamed me for stalling things saying that he texted me that we need to decide on seperating assests and i havent brought it up to him yet! I mean why would i? I wasnt the one wanting this.

 

He said this stinks but in his heart he just cant take a chance on trusting me because he said hes tried, though he wouldnt say how. He said hes thought and thought on how to get through this and it all just comes down to he cant trust me. He said if i lie about major stuff like going to dr and etc then god only knows what else i lie about.

 

He said i humilated him at work because of that note thing and he had to go tell his boss the truth. He also told me how bad it hurt him to have me miscarry again. Iagain through out mc but he said theres no point because he knows he cant trust me and no counselor will change his trust.

 

 

I asked if he really ever loved me and he said yes i really did! Its so sad i just dont want this. I know ppl go through this everyday but it sucks! I told him it doesnt have to be this way and again he said about trust!

 

I wish there was a magic formula to make him trust me

[tojaz]

Allie, I hate to admit that I'm not sure what kind of advice to give right now.

 

When I read your post and hear it play out in my head, he still sounds quite angry and seems very concerned with his wounded pride.

 

I'm not sure what hes done to "try and trust you" either, but it seems to me that he is more unable to open himself up to the possibility of trusting you without a guarantee... which obviously doesn't exist in this world. Its not that hes unable to trust, its that hes unable to give you the opportunity to put that to the test. I find that ironic because you have extended him an awful lot of trust here on this thread, and it was trust that he really hadn't earned.

 

This is more and more about something within him rather then anything you did Allie.

 

like I said Allie, I'm not really sure what to suggest next, i feel like were missing something......that will require some thought.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

H def is still angry. Im not in denial or anything but he does somethings that I find odd. Yesterday we fought all day. In person, over text, over phone and id get upset and hang up and he call back repeatidly. As we would end one convo on a bad note i would send him a text and ask him to call me when he was driving and hed instantly call me.

 

Im fighting for our marriage hes just fighting. For someone who has checked out he still has a lot of emotion left

[AllieKat]

Oh forgot to add this last night dd was alone with him and cameinto room and asked him if he ever got father days gift from him he told her no and said he didnt want it. Then she went in room crying and he went in and said when you love someone and your married and they lie to you its very hard to forgive and forget, theres always that thought in your head and thats why i cant be married to your mother. Then he left her room and came back and said i know its hard when your parents fight believe me ive been there. Then he left and cameback in her room and said you dont have to answer this but do you know where your mother is?

[shiftman]

In my humble opinion, most men have a tendency to let hurt fanifest itself into anger. Many of us were taught at an early age that "big boys don't cry". As a result, we use anger as a poor excuse for a coping skill.

 

To me, I think that the fella involved must be (or have been) a pretty good guy. It isn't everybody who is willing to take on the responsibility of a ready-made family. For that effort alone, I think that he deserves a measure of respect and consideration.

 

In some instances, it is the hurt of the lie itself that carries more weight that the subject matter of the lie.

 

I think that he feels betrayed. As a result, he is angry. His visible anger will be dormat on some days and resurrect itself on others. His internal anger is still there. Boiling. Just waiting for an event (even an obscure or trivial one) to once again rear its ugly head. Been there, done that.

 

My gut feeling is that he does not want to go. He just does not know how to deal with his feelings and stay either. He is in a bad place and I hope he can find a healthy way to deal with his feelings.

[tojaz]

Im fighting for our marriage hes just fighting. For someone who has checked out he still has a lot of emotion left

 

Hes fighting to maintain the level of separation, so that he doesn't have to really look at the situation. Hes boiled it down to something simple (for him). You lied, now he can never trust you and he has to push you away. Thats where his communication ends.

 

You have been looking at things from a lot of different angles and coming at him from many different directions trying to find a resolution, but that has just caused him to hold hard and fast to that one principle that allows him to keep you back.

 

The lie isn't the real issue, there were problems brewing long before. Its just something tangible for him to hide behind that he can come back to over and over when he needs to shut off communication.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

I cant figure out what could of been brewing. Honestly unless it was the 2 threats of divorce by me? Other than that we could got along great!

 

Im mad at myself now because i feel like i should just stop fighting and let him go, but i dont know how and i dont want to. I still love him. I just wish i knew a way to help him

[shiftman]

Unless you plan on going through with it, I would strongly suggest that you stop threatening to end your marriage. Otherwise, the threats simply become a weapon that is used in an ongoing battle. Again, been there, done that.

 

I still believe that he does not want out. He just does not know how to stay.

[AllieKat]

@ shiftman agreed! I did make those threats twice once in feb of 2011 and in april of this year but i learned my lesson! I cant help feel the same shiftman that he doesnt really want out but yet i cant ignore what hes saying either. I guess its the prepare for the worst hope for the best scearnio

[shiftman]

At some point, you will have to plot a course of action that will be in the best interest of you and your daughter.

 

I am only know learning the misery that I subjected my child to by staying in an unhealthy relationship. Don't make the same mistake that I did.

[tojaz]

I cant figure out what could of been brewing. Honestly unless it was the 2 threats of divorce by me? Other than that we could got along great!

 

Im mad at myself now because i feel like i should just stop fighting and let him go, but i dont know how and i dont want to. I still love him. I just wish i knew a way to help him

 

Well Allie there were problems that brought you here before the pregnancy, thats what I was referring to. I can't speak for what his state of mind was at that time though, other then what you have posted.

 

Don't be mad at yourself Allie, thats the situation anyone who loves their spouse would find themselves in, and most would react just as you have. I've gone on record here many times saying that if you really love someone you will fight to your last breathe. I lost my battle, but i still believe that.

 

TOJAZ

[shiftman]

IMHO, knowing when NOT to fight is often just as important.

[AllieKat]

Oh my another day of stuff! With everything H has said its funny to me how everytime i call him he answers, when i text he responds instantly. Yet he doesnt care? Men are confusing!! Lol i can only imagine how they feel about us!

 

My plan of action is to not engage in anymore fights with H! I will not do that anymore its not going to help anything. Im hoping at this point to get back to being civil (which H was today on phone) but at home tonight hes moody and seems irritated. I would at least like to be friends if nothing else. Afterall hes been my best friend for 10 years!!