Forgiveness

[Yasuandio]

You know I follow your thread, when I can, Allie. There is one thing, I feel, I consistently should have to pointed out to you - and have not done so directly, thus far. However, you recently cited me as a poster that assisted in your growth - so may if I share an observation with you? Here it is:

 

No matter when I pick up your thread, you always present, in my opinion, as somewhat needy and clingy. If you are not receiving enough attention, you just begin another thread. I so wish I was the recipient of the amount and quality of the advice you have received. What is your response to that? I do not mean to be ugly, I mean to infer that this "neediness" and "clinginess" may also be an issue in the marriage puzzle you are dealing with. With best regards, Yas

[AllieKat]

Yas- i see how that may be construded for sure. Im not clingly or needy but more desperate and heartbroken. Its hard to explain i guess my h and i maybe both were super into each other maybe we were both clingly to each other. I desperatly miss the contact between us i mean its breaking my heart. Thats because im letting it, but i do miss it. We did everything together for 10 years and to be honest we got wrapped up in each other and our litle family of 3. Not a bad thing till now when im left feeling stripped of my bf and partner in crime so to speak. Not to mention the lack of intimacy.

 

I dont think be so involved in family is a bad thing it just shouldnt keep you from neglecting other relationships and it is healthy to have other interests/hobbies out side of marriage. Something h and i didnt really do much. I did girls night and had a side thing doing avon but he was all about me and dd and showered me with love and attention and i got used to it. Now im just trying to adjust and get through this and build a new, better relationship and im struggling. Somedays i just would do anything for a hug.

[AllieKat]

As far as starting another thread. I had wanted to start the EA thread to talk about that not my situation but others exp and thoughts i wasnt doing it to get attention, just info and it did just that.

 

Now yas- thats not the first time someone has slapped my wrist for starting another thread, is there a rule about that or something? Im not looking for attention on here just advice from ppl who are living it. I get lots of advice from ppl who arent.

[Yasuandio]

As far as starting another thread. I had wanted to start the EA thread to talk about that not my situation but others exp and thoughts i wasnt doing it to get attention, just info and it did just that.

 

Now yas- thats not the first time someone has slapped my wrist for starting another thread, is there a rule about that or something? Im not looking for attention on here just advice from ppl who are living it. I get lots of advice from ppl who arent.

 

honey, Im not slapping your hand, and so sorry my directed comes off very terse sometimes. I actually wrote my story on your EA thread caus I'm too chicken to start mu own.

 

But I meant what I said, and it was for your consideration - just another perspective. and addmittedly, you feel hearbroken and desparate, totally understandable. et, it's possible for both of those feeling to make one appear, either consciously or subconscously, needy and clingy - which we know is a huge turn off to men.

 

Ithrew this out to you because not only do I think I may be obseving signs of it on LS, I am concerned it may be occuring at home. Your husband's behavior makes no darn sense, it is borderline emotioally abusive in my opinion. I know, as wives, we sometimes have to make the best of trials durig the marriage - I understand that completely, more than you'll ever know.

 

but there is a certain line of abuse, once it's crossed, it will wear on your self-esteme. I believe some men are capable of damaging a woman in this way on purpose, to gain a certain control over her. A feeling of deparateness is just one of the symptoms. Keep you eyes wide open. Hi on again (nice about the car) and then off again (sullen, sleeping in a different room) in no less than passive aggressive behavior towards you. That is why you feel desparate. Again, sorry, I was not as tactful as I could have been in earlier post. Hope this helps, Yas

[AllieKat]

No apologies Yas its all good! You were giving you opinion and i respect that. I do or should say am acting different at home these days especially in comparrison to how i first was acting. I pour my heart out on here but i dont let hubby see that anymore. Ive been busy doing things and trying to keep desperate allie in the closet.

 

So far shes been good. Lol. I do think some men fo this to abuse wives but i dont think that is what my hubby intentions are at all. I think hes confused by my recent change and seems more at ease yet very guarded. I say that now but later when im at a low and hes not talking ill be saying how can he not talk. Lol just being real!

 

Your thread posts were great and i think we all can agree very insightful just stinks youve had to go through with that. If nothing else someone will read that and be wiser, even if it just helps one person. EA is hard for me to understand and from what ive read unless that person is willing yo work on themselves theres nothing the spouse can do to help them, that was my hang up on the subject not being able to help if thats what my hubby was going through.

 

My h has issues with abandonment and being hurt by his mother that hes hasnt dealt with and his way of dealing with that was to vlose off his heart cause he cant handle the pain, in his mind. I was molested as a child and i carry issues myself in trusting men. I think i deal with it a lot better than my hubby deals with his hurt

[riverratt]

My h has issues with abandonment and being hurt by his mother that hes hasnt dealt with and his way of dealing with that was to vlose off his heart cause he cant handle the pain, in his mind. I was molested as a child and i carry issues myself in trusting men. I think i deal with it a lot better than my hubby deals with his hurt

 

I follow you. I am beginning to see that a lot of marriage issues with some couples is a person is dealing with other things as well. It makes things complicated. I also think that, in a lot of cases, the one person that they need to help them through it all they push away. The one person that will not judge them and support them.

 

It ends up that a person becomes the "problem" and the "cure".

[tojaz]

No apologies Yas its all good! You were giving you opinion and i respect that. I do or should say am acting different at home these days especially in comparrison to how i first was acting. I pour my heart out on here but i dont let hubby see that anymore. Ive been busy doing things and trying to keep desperate allie in the closet.

 

So far shes been good. Lol. I do think some men fo this to abuse wives but i dont think that is what my hubby intentions are at all. I think hes confused by my recent change and seems more at ease yet very guarded. I say that now but later when im at a low and hes not talking ill be saying how can he not talk. Lol just being real!

 

Your thread posts were great and i think we all can agree very insightful just stinks youve had to go through with that. If nothing else someone will read that and be wiser, even if it just helps one person. EA is hard for me to understand and from what ive read unless that person is willing yo work on themselves theres nothing the spouse can do to help them, that was my hang up on the subject not being able to help if thats what my hubby was going through.

 

My h has issues with abandonment and being hurt by his mother that hes hasnt dealt with and his way of dealing with that was to vlose off his heart cause he cant handle the pain, in his mind. I was molested as a child and i carry issues myself in trusting men. I think i deal with it a lot better than my hubby deals with his hurt

 

Sounds like a perfect storm Allie

 

Your right, that there is nothing you can do to "help" him, because he does not even believe he needs help. The most that can be asked is to understand each others sensitivities.

 

Take two people with trust issues and extra care has to be taken. I'm wondering if keeping your emotions under wraps may be doing more harm then good?

 

While obviously laying into him when he hurts you isn't going to be productive, neither is keeping those things a secret either. Keep in mind the situation that has brought you here in the first place was you withholding information that was important to him.

 

Right now your both in a protective stance out of worry for what might come next and as you know that leads to a terrible stalemate.

 

I think what might be worth considering is a "controlled release" where you can still communicate what needs to be said and lets him feel safe enough to do the same..... watering the house plant!

 

I know your not in a position for that right now, but it's something to keep in the back of your mind because now that your figuring out the things that set you off and biting your lip when you want to go off, thats going to be the next step.

 

TOJAZ

[riverratt]

yeah. ok. Course there is an issue. or none of us would be on this site in the 1st place.

 

It`s how you deal with that issue. Being the main reason we ARE on this site. Seeking help.

 

Also in All cases here, there`s one partner that needs help( us, hence why we are here ) and one that has `given` up,( or just doesn`t know what to do)

 

You cannot go looking for help and support in the one person you are `running after`. As much as you want too, it aint gonna happen

 

The more you push.....the more they will pull

 

step back.

 

Soon as you step back, they WILL stop pulling away.

 

Why? Because they have no need to.

 

"It ends up that a person becomes the "problem" and the "cure".

 

River please explain? cos to me, another way of putting it is

 

"I`m upset, because of you, now i want you to fix it, so i`m not upset anymore." ?

 

Hugs

 

coops

 

I mean "other" issues. Example, With my situation. My wife went through a bout of depression over a child hood thing. She originally pulled away from me for something I had nothing to do with. I didn't support her the way I should have because I didn't understand what was going on. That was the problem. If I had done the right thing, which I understand now, I could have been her cure for original issue that got her down in the first place.

 

When a person has such issues. Even medical issues like bi-polar, for example, it adds a lot more to the situation. Instead of trying to be a good husband and father you have to be a therapist. That isn't something that most of us grasp until it is too late. If some of us even can.

 

My ex tells me she can't forgive me for not supporting her the way she needed to be when I didn't understand what was going on. She told me to go on and do what I needed to do to get things taken care of for the house, bills etc. and then I get hammered for it. She will tell you too this day that she was wrong about how she closed me out but that doesn't matter. It is still my fault. I should have see what was going on. ??

 

I am not hacking her at all but that falls out of the normal marriage "thing".

 

I think some of us are or were in a no-win situation. I know I was.

[trippi1432]

I mean "other" issues. Example, With my situation. My wife went through a bout of depression over a child hood thing. She originally pulled away from me for something I had nothing to do with. I didn't support her the way I should have because I didn't understand what was going on. That was the problem. If I had done the right thing, which I understand now, I could have been her cure for original issue that got her down in the first place.

 

When a person has such issues. Even medical issues like bi-polar, for example, it adds a lot more to the situation. Instead of trying to be a good husband and father you have to be a therapist. That isn't something that most of us grasp until it is too late. If some of us even can.

 

My ex tells me she can't forgive me for not supporting her the way she needed to be when I didn't understand what was going on. She told me to go on and do what I needed to do to get things taken care of for the house, bills etc. and then I get hammered for it. She will tell you too this day that she was wrong about how she closed me out but that doesn't matter. It is still my fault. I should have see what was going on. ??

 

I am not hacking her at all but that falls out of the normal marriage "thing".

 

I think some of us are or were in a no-win situation. I know I was.

 

I totally get that River, I spent pretty much 15 years in that situation. There are times too when you cannot reason with someone who sees their emotionally abusive, manipulative and toxic childhood as "normal" and thinks that is just how things are.

 

Sometimes though, even being the therapist in your relationship, creates just as much harm. You either have to learn to live in their altered state of reality or learn to survive it because some things do fall outside of the normal marriage and life partnership ideals.

[riverratt]

 

Sometimes though, even being the therapist in your relationship, creates just as much harm. You either have to learn to live in their altered state of reality or learn to survive it because some things do fall outside of the normal marriage and life partnership ideals.

 

Yeh it does. The OM that is my ex is with left his marriage because they always

were fighting. He is an alcoholic and it is her fault. The ex sees it his way.

What blows my mind is that my ex was married to man before me that was the same way. She said I was the best thing that ever happened to her because there was no physical or mental abuse but she goes right back to it. ???

 

That's what nobody can understand.

[AllieKat]

Another day another incident. Ok i know this be opposite of what some think i should of done but i feel like i have the right at any given time to ask my hubby anything. He has the right not to answer. Lol with that being said i know saying i texted hubby today wont be popular but i did it and i felt the need.

 

I have been having issues with my iphone since i downloaded the new ios 6 and today was another issue. I downloaded another app that disappeared and when i went back to app store they wanted to charge me again. So i went to itunes and looked at app purchase history to see if it showed up and what do i find but some bad apps that have been purchased at some time. They were all free so purchased isnt the right word but thats what itunes calls them.

 

So i knew it was dd or hubby, not good anyway you spin it. So i texted hubby and said "what time are u off today"? ( he was just working ot so i knew he was just working a few hours) i thought i could met him at home and over my lunch and show him. He replies on 9am break "ill be working till noon. Why do you ask"? I said "i need to talk to you" and his reply was "about what". I asked if i could call him and before he could respond he called me. I told him what i found and he said that he didnt download any of that and i said then it was dd. he said well before you tear into her i'll look at it when i get home and maybe see if we can find out the circumstances. I then in a very direct way said if these are yours im going to ask you to move out. He didnt say anything. I said ok in the meantime i got off work picked dd up and showed her at home the apps history and said i saw some dirty stuff was downloaded and im not happy but i dont know how it got there. She instantly started cry and confessed. She claims it was all by accident soone by one i went through them and she said they were hers.

 

Hubby and talked for 1 1/2 hours at home about this and the apps and then about a few other things. Its so hard to gage him hes so down the middle. He doesnt lead me to believe he cares or doesnt. That may intentional. It bums me out but its better then we were. He did listen when i talked and seemed interested when i was telling him what dd was up to. Somedays i think about spouses whove been betrayed and i wonder how long did it take to reconcile if they did. Was it months? Weeks? I guess i feel like its taking him a very long time to get over this IF he ever will.

 

Still hoping he will though. Just seems odd that hed pick up phone and call me everytime i ask, fix my car, get me gas, grocery shop, scoop litter if im the stbxw.... Thoughts?

[AllieKat]

Hubs came home after soccer and we talked for 45 mins small talk but hey its talk right....

[riverratt]

Hubs came home after soccer and we talked for 45 mins small talk but hey its talk right....

 

Sounds like you are. More then I got. Don't over think things he says. I have a problem with that. My mind gets deep sometimes. Too deep and I will miss the simple things.

 

Sounds good for you.

[tojaz]

Allie, your goal is good, healthy, constructive communication. Not any communication at all. Quality vs. Quantity.

[AllieKat]

Today was a tiny positive day! Hubby texted me at work to tell me he would take my car for state inspection and hed take me to work and then run the car over. I told him i could take it ( afterall he fid say a few weeks sgo id have to learn to do the car stuff on my own) he said he prefer to take it since they may try to con me because theyve already pulled tgat with him and they know hes a mechanic. So i said ok tyvm. I think this is a good step.

Esp since he was all gunho on me doing stuff myself.

 

 

Lets hope it continues...

[trippi1432]

Good Allie - let him focus his attention where he his strengths are. Part of sharing a life is allowing each other to shine in the areas each person brings strength to the relationship and respecting each other for those strengths...it's also about two people who can be honest enough with themselves to know where their weaknesses are and being able to admit where their spouse makes up for it.

 

It's not that you are incapable of learning how to take care of a car yourself...it's not that he's incapable of doing his own laundry as an example, it's about valuing what you both bring to the relationship. Two independent people who share a family together, a life together...getting to clear, healthy communication is knowing what is important to each other, their feelings, supporting each other in both strengths and weaknesses. It's about acceptance and getting to the....

 

Quality vs. Quantity.

 

Sometimes, well I've said this before on LS...it's about how two people can lay down their pride....the rest is to admit their mistakes and (where your thread began) forgive. Forgiveness is not just as much him, but just as much you too. Don't mean that in a hard way, but not an easy way either. Each time he gives, let him...each time you give, don't hold him in check.

 

Allie - I keep posting here because your story isn't typical of LS..did you need to learn some things...yes. Were you listening in the beginning...NO, but you are listening now right? I admire your stubbornness in loving your husband as much as I applaud your growth.

[AllieKat]

@trippi thank you :-)! They are some positive changes in me coming through all this. My dad used to always say theres a lesson in everything and i believe it to be true. Its hard cause my heart is missing the loving connection so much. And my family is against me in hanging in there with hubby. Most of my friends are too. They think im in denial and i need to let go. Its not that they see him or us right now either they only know what ive been telling them and they think i should just move on.

[AllieKat]

Yesterday was offically the 4 month mark. Thats hard cause i feel like if hes let this go on 4 mths its gotta be over. But then i think its only been about 3 weeks of me being an adult with him. ( no picking fights, making acusations being bratty) and i definately have gotten morepositive from hubby in these last 3 weeks then i have in the whole 4 mths. Plus hes still here so trying to not dwell on the time its taking.

[AllieKat]

Yesterday and tonight i feel like cracking with hubby. I feel like hes trying to test me to see how i react. He has come home after a litle after 10pm both night and his practice is over at 8pm. Now i know a lot of nights he stands around and talks but its been raining out so i doubt that to be true. I have no clue what hes doing and it triggers that impulsive side of me to go chew him out and accuse him of cheating.

 

I know he wasnt getting food or anything and he really has no friends around so i dont know what to think. I guess he could be avoiding coming home cause he knows id be in bed and he could avoid interacting with me. This is what he used to do early on in our fight. He even parked in a parking lot and played on his phone just to kill time.

 

Just not sure why hes back to this again? I really doubt hes cheating but i have trust issues so i dunno. I havent been pushing him at all so i wouldnt think hes pulling. We talked briefly yesterday and the day before he was the iniator with convo so im kinda confused what might make him want to avoid home

[tojaz]

He's not avoiding home Allie, hes avoiding you.

 

Your pushing him was not the only thing that pushed him back into his shell. Your changes have helped the situation, but they will not remedy it on their own.

 

He's trying to continue the comfortable cycle. Before, he could count on you to provide a catalyst for him to back away. You would say something or do something and he would retreat, put up his walls, and you would be back to where you started. You have made a major stride this time though, and have not provided that for him, so he had to create that safe distance for himself.

 

While it's not happy for you to have to go through the cycle again, keep in mind that this time around he doesn't have whatever you may have done to sit and dwell on. When hes sitting in a parking lot or doing whatever, he has nobody to blame but himself and thats the kind of thing that may put things in a different perspective for him.

 

My advice is to let it pass without you even mentioning it and see if he comes back around on schedule. Your going to worry and fret, but keep it to yourself for now, turn the porch light out, and go to sleep. This is one he has to figure out for himself.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

I dont light on for him at all...lol but I realized last night while i was laying in bed it was the night of his monthly football meeting at 8:30pm and its usually always at least an hour its been longer before too depending what all needs discussed so that makes me feel a little better as far as time goes. I really thought by now id be over this worrying with him. I dont think he stresses at all about where i am.

 

I kept my mouth shut btw so no drama

[tojaz]

I dont light on for him at all...lol but I realized last night while i was laying in bed it was the night of his monthly football meeting at 8:30pm and its usually always at least an hour its been longer before too depending what all needs discussed so that makes me feel a little better as far as time goes. I really thought by now id be over this worrying with him. I dont think he stresses at all about where i am.

 

I kept my mouth shut btw so no drama

 

You never get over worrying about someone you love and care about.

[trippi1432]

I agree, both you and your husband are going through cycles here. I bring up this "porch light" as it was something you noted Allie before in your posts. Remember when he left the porch light on for you and it sort of made you anxious as to why he would do that if he didn't care? As well as all the other things he has done that were good actions? I disagree with turning the porch light out....leave it on, go to bed and don't bring anything up.

 

He does need to figure it out for himself, and some people may disagree with me on this, but when my exH was on the fence, little actions like turning out the porch light were taken as not caring and he felt validated in looking for another "inviting, warm doorway with a lit porch light" if you know what I mean. If the two of you were not in this situation, what would Allie do if he were running late coming home, did she shut off the porch light to show her disapproval/dissatisfaction? That had a different meaning then as he wasn't one foot out the door. IF, and I say IF, he is doing something he shouldn't be doing....turning out the porch light will just validate to him that it's over, leaving it on, may confuse him some.

[AllieKat]

Trippi i can relate here my hubby had said when we had that fight right before this that me hiding in bedroom and having door shut made him feel like i didnt care. I remember thinking well if i thiught you cared i wouldnt be hiding! Lol but remembering him saying that is important he could indeed feel that way.

 

Before if he was running late hed text me or call... Always cause he knew i would worry. And i would not of giving him a hard tine at all. Though most times in evening even at these meeting i was there too filling my role.

 

When hubby left porch light on for me it did make me think i still cared. That part gets me sometimes cause im not sure to show him i do still care or to act like i dont and just go on about my business. I have been wearing the rings though the last two weeks and i know hes seen this because we sit on coy h together and have talked and hes very attentive with details. I know me wearing them will envoke mixed reactions from folks but if its bothering hubby he sure hasnt said so. And i did tell him i wanted to wear them prior to him giving them back

[AllieKat]

Hubs came home from work and i just was busy doing stuff and he came to me and iniated convo, nothing overly important but he iniated it. He saw the kitty got a hair cut and was asking about that. Dumb i know but hey it was talk? I really do see how the less i do the more he finds even silly stuff to talk about. He told me his plans for the evening and i just smiled.

 

Dare i to say this but as sad as i am im learning so much and seeing somethings i dont like about myself and realizing how i wasnt the best wife and that is whats good about this situation. Im becoming better and appreciated what I had and learning how some of my impulsiveness has hurt hubby and his feelings.