Forgiveness

[MsOptimist]

That is really messed up, I am sorry he is messing with your head so much. I'm inclined to think that he's purposely doing this to mess with your head. I think he knows he has control over you. If he is doing that, it's just wrong.

 

I would be concerned about the radically different behaviors in the past couple of days - to go from angry and violent to kissing up to you, and then STILL bringing up divorce. Maybe that is his way of expressing guilt over the anger from the other night, but that's just wrong to swing back and forth like that. I know how fragile you are (because I'm fragile over my situation myself even though I already have my resolution of imminent divorce).

 

I would not give in to his "nice" ways. He needs to see that you deserve respect.

[Yasuandio]

Ty all for takingyour time to help.

 

Wish you had listened to us.

 

Things keep getting weirder. Last night early am i went out on couch cause i couldnt sleepso i felt the need to stir the pot.

 

And, you really did this time, in, one could argue, a masochistic fashion.

 

What ended up happening was him sitting right next to me with his arm around me trying to annoy me. He said i looked pretty and smelled good. So i said ok bluffer im going back in my room now your to close so he followed me and he laid down in bed with me and tried cuddling just to annoy me. I said heck we should just have sex he said why not and guess what we did!

 

I'm gonna say something you might not like here. My read on this, according to your own words, is you may have lured him into having sex with you. There is really never a good time to do that - especially for a woman. However, in light of the termoil of the past event, emotionally - neither of you were really prepared for that.

 

It was strange cause he was telling me how beautiful i was and calling me babe and other nice things he used to say. It was just like old times didnt feel like a bluff. We were careful he was clear on that he would not be taking that chance. He kept asking if i was ok. Needless to say after we had a long convo he still stated divorce and he asked why i was crying and said he wanted to know. I told him cause having sex made my heart heart. He said i hope you didnt think that woud fix anything? I said no.

 

Do I need to tell you this? Men don't necessarily feel bonded to you because they had sex with you (obviously, men do not always desire a relationship or emotional invlovement when they have sex, often, men have sex just as a purely physical acivity - it is how some or many of them are wired). However, for a woman - having sex can be an emotional experience that bonds you, even chemically, to the partner.

 

Wetalked till 7:30 am andhe said for him he just cant feel trust in me, and thats why he cant do this. I saidis there anything i can do to help you get over that and trust me and he said maybe but he doesnt know what to tell me. I asked him for a hug and he held me so tightand when i tried to pull away he held me tighter. :-( then we went to car and he ran over to my side and opened my door for me and said "see im not such a bad guy am i?" Then we grabbed some ff and he took me to work.

 

There is this phenomenon called "hysterical bonding." While the definition does not completely fit your situation (there is no infidelity), you are indeed in a tramic period in your marriage - perhaps you marriage is over. You wondered about this before the sex. It is natural for a human being to desire to have some stability, or a general idea of how their life is constructed, and with whom, if anyone. This "mental balance" can contribute to your happiness. When a crisis erupts in your relationship - suddenly the image that maintained your mental balance is shattered, and you are in pain, and depressed, anxious, stressed out.

 

Hysterical bonding can be defined as when a spouse has an overwhelming desire to have sex with their partner who has had an affair. From what I have read, this can happen during the recovery period, once the couple separate, or once the divorce is final. While your husband is not seeing anyone (that we know of), he's not exactly seeing you either. It is almost like he is having an affair without another women. He is not present in the marriage any longer. Then - suddenly you desire to have sex with him, no matter how he has treated you.

 

And yet my hopes are up AGAIN... When will i learn :-(

 

Allie, it is not unnatural to try to be sexual with your husband in an effort to save your marriage. So, do not beat yourself up. Take careful note of how you feel now, afterwards. This, is probably your hardest lesson. I am sorry that you have been hurt - but I certainly understand your sense of desparation - and, I did the same exact thing. It really messed me up.

 

In my case, it was true hysterical bonding, I believe now. When I got home from Greece, suddenly my husband wanted me again. He had not had sex with me in over two years! After a couple of sex encounters, he wanted a divorce, in the end. I felt hurt, and confused. I thought the sex thing meant everything was going to be ok between us. That was not the case.

 

I did read that sometimes hysterical bonding can lead to reconcilation. But, I certainly would advise you NOT to put all your eggs in that basket (and learn from mistakes of others). Those few encounters, in December, 2008, gave me hope for almost four years. It really confused me, and I got myself into a pattern of confirmation bias. My hope is dead now. It took the trial and the final decree for me to "get that." At least for me, there is no going back - I'm finished. Everytime he pops into my mind - I substitute the image with something else. Like one of your other posters said, if you fake happiness long enough, you begin to develop endophins that actually create happiness. The more I replace this "delusional" image in my mind - the less it occurs, and the better I feel.

 

Actually, I think I morned this mariage over a year ago - I had those sort of rythmic tears - from deep inside for a period of a few weeks after seeing him in court - and hearing him refer to me as "X." The emotions and hopefullness that I've experienced since, I believe falls under the catagory of obsession (as, it just seems that my feeling about him and the marriage have almost, just evaporated since the decree was emailed. Once the judge devided the assets, I know exactly how my life will proceed now. It is what it is. That is a lot more than "not knowing." This may be why I am feeling some real recovery from my obsessiveness, and being more objective in terms of the confirmation bias' I've projected onto the situation).

 

Finially - I so do agree with Tojaz, I would be very concerned with the thievery, violence, and anger, and would re-visit if this is, indeed, the type of person you want to remain in a relationship with.

 

I hope these thoughts have been helpful to you. Again, I am very sorry for your pain. I truly understand it. Yas

 

 

PS Did you use birth control?

Edited October 1, 2012 by Yasuandio

[AllieKat]

Yas i know im a damn train wreck! Lol i have been missing our intamacy for months so him playing his little game to annoy me i figured id call his bluff cause for sure he wouldnt go through with it, secretly im glad he did because i enjoyed myself and i def know sex wont fix our issues but the sexual tension has been building up and it felt good to release it even if thats all it was. I think it was more but thats just me. My hubby isnt a typical male he could of got sex this whole time but never tried i think cause his anger was bigger thsn anything. Who knows but i dont regret it. I just hate how hard it is to seperate feelings. Im sure hes regretting it but i dunno.

 

 

I didnt use bc persa but we were careful

[Yasuandio]

As long as you are ok, that is what is important. Forgive me for going on and on, I was just trying to help. Yas

[AllieKat]

No apologies needed Yas! I appreciate all the time and thought you spend on me its nice that you can share your experiences now and your advice helps :-)

[Yasuandio]

No apologies needed Yas! I appreciate all the time and thought you spend on me its nice that you can share your experiences now and your advice helps :-)

 

Keeping in touch with your experiences has also been helpful to me - in processing what I need to process. I give you my own situation, because I see myself in your story sometimes, as you probably detected. Continue well with your recovery. LS people are obviously here for you, that's a great thing, isn't it, lucky girl? Yas

[Steen719]

This makes my 158th post in this thread, how he has been treating her has not eluded me.

 

Oh, I know. I did not mean to indicate you didn't. I was just giving my opinion, which is he was yanking her chain.

[trippi1432]

Hey Allie - Honestly, this happens a lot in these situations for various reasons. Happened with my exH and I as well. I won't go into the details, but it was a very crushing experience.

 

It is hard to separate those feelings, coming from similar backgrounds, you learn how to deal with your feelings and hit survival mode...then you find that you can share the feelings you have been scared to have (trust in sharing the most intimate part of yourself with another).

 

When the person we entrusted that part of ourselves with interacts with you sexually, it is confusing. And I think Yas said it best

Do I need to tell you this? Men don't necessarily feel bonded to you because they had sex with you (obviously, men do not always desire a relationship or emotional invlovement when they have sex, often, men have sex just as a purely physical acivity - it is how some or many of them are wired). However, for a woman - having sex can be an emotional experience that bonds you, even chemically, to the partner.

 

What was the rest of the conversation? Was there any mention by him or you about the incident that took place prior to this, his breaking things, his behavior, the police?

 

There are so many times in marriages when sex can be confused with getting to the heart of the matter, but the elephant in the room is still standing. Tread lightly and go easy on yourself.

[AllieKat]

As for the rest of the convo he did apologize and said he just lost control. He said he just was so mad. He said breaking my vanity wasnt what it looked like he said he was kicking my shoes out of his way and he tripped and fell and and the drawer broke then it fell on his foot and he punched it out of anger.

 

He also said he would bring home the health insurance info home when they offer it so we can talk about it. He said his new job is hard and hes not doing good and hes worried after his 90 prob period hes nervous if they will keep him.

 

Today when i came home he said hello to me and we talked he was very nice and talkative, i was so tired from not sleeping for 24 hours that i went to lay down. When i woke up dd told me he asked her if she needed help with homework and she said no and he told her he hopes she knows she can ask him anytime for help. I am more confused and its my fault. He still did say divorce after sex so its not like hes stringing me along its just w/o going into detail it was very loving and affecionate it didnt feel like he was just trying to get his way and use me. It was more like 2 ppl who loved each other and had MAJOR steam to blow off. Aside from that the hug, the door opening, his concern to make sure i got enough to eat at breakfast and his kind words to dd just make me feel he cares. Im sure i sound so dumb but i dunno i just dont feel like its over.... Yet

[tojaz]

Question....Is that something Allie should do? Would that not just raise more drama and wouldn't that just make her a target for more anger? Confiding in the gossipers to begin with was a nail in the coffin of this marriage, not that she knew that then, but does now. So are you saying to use that against him to tarnish him and re-establish her reputation?

 

Well that is obviously up to Allie to decide.

 

I don't mean it so much as something to use against him as much as it is to keep the realities of the situation in the light of day since it seems like it has been a priority to him to maintain his public image at Allies expense. In a way, giving him another place to hide since it sounds like Allie's side of the story has remained confined to the house for the most part.

 

Looking back at what i wrote, it does sound like I 'm saying she should smear him all over town, I was a bit pi$$ed lol, but my intention was for her just to be honest about what happened and not conceal the story. If it makes the light of day, he can't hide from it and will most likely have to take a better look at himself... he would have little choice.

 

Ty all for takingyour time to help. Things keep getting weirder. Last night early am i went out on couch cause i couldnt sleep so i felt the need to stir the pot. What ended up happening was him sitting right next to me with his arm around me trying to annoy me. He said i looked pretty and smelled good. So i said ok bluffer im going back in my room now your to close so he followed me and he laid down in bed with me and tried cuddling just to annoy me. I said heck we should just have sex he said why not and guess what we did!

 

 

Not as weird as you think although please accept my slightly annoyed face at you feeling the need to stir the pot >>>

 

As for the rest, first instinct was to give you hell for the sex, but I get it and it may wind up working in your favor, and if not you still had a nice night! I would keep your guard up should he decide to come knocking for a repeat performance however.

 

What I do wonder is, why do you think his compliments were meant to try and annoy you?

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

Well that is obviously up to Allie to decide.

 

I don't mean it so much as something to use against him as much as it is to keep the realities of the situation in the light of day since it seems like it has been a priority to him to maintain his public image at Allies expense. In a way, giving him another place to hide since it sounds like Allie's side of the story has remained confined to the house for the most part.

 

Looking back at what i wrote, it does sound like I 'm saying she should smear him all over town, I was a bit pi$$ed lol, but my intention was for her just to be honest about what happened and not conceal the story. If it makes the light of day, he can't hide from it and will most likely have to take a better look at himself... he would have little choice.

 

 

The story is now dead, they had sex. In that, she "forgave" him to a point...a man's point. Leaves her little straddling room now doesn't it? Not pointing at you Tojaz..but from a man's POV, her giving into intimacy and him wanting it was his way of getting forgiveness for his transgressions the night before. Women use it too as well, but what I am saying is that it no longer gives a leg to stand on doesn't it? I agree, he will have to take a better look at himself, both will.

[tojaz]

The story is now dead, they had sex. In that, she "forgave" him to a point...a man's point. Leaves her little straddling room now doesn't it? Not pointing at you Tojaz..but from a man's POV, her giving into intimacy and him wanting it was his way of getting forgiveness for his transgressions the night before. Women use it too as well, but what I am saying is that it no longer gives a leg to stand on doesn't it? I agree, he will have to take a better look at himself, both will.

 

Thats reading an awful lot into things don't you think?

[trippi1432]

I don't think so, human nature it not so much as reading too much into things.

[trippi1432]

I'm not saying Allie's story or the marriage, I'm saying the story of that night...the rest continues, but what he did became minor in the flux of things. Not to her, but to him.

[AllieKat]

 

What I do wonder is, why do you think his compliments were meant to try and annoy you?

 

TOJAZ

 

I dunno I thought initially that is why he was saying them to bug me. I mean its possible he meant them, they are things hes said before it just seemed at the time he was trying to make me annoyed so I'd leave the couch

[AllieKat]

W/o going over every detail. H had meeting tonight. I was sleeping when he came home but i woke up and texted him to see if he was still up? I was to scared to go out and just check. He came in my room and sat down and we talked for an hour and half. I then told him why i really wanted him to come in "relations" he said that before that happens again we need to both clear up the intentions and etc behind it. He said he enjoys it very much with me but doesnt want me to think its how to fix our issues and he doesnt want me thinking hes using me. I agreed and told him i do hope we work stuff out but i realize sex doesnt fix problems and etc. we then did our thing and had long talk after about why he cant just move on and get passed this. Hes not sure why but he wants to get passed it and he said he knows divorcing me isnt fixing the problem. He still doesnt like the idea of a counselor. Needless to say i went back to bed and then so did too. 5 mins later he came back in my room saying he wanted to do something gentlmenly so he kissed me on check and hugged me and said good night.

[tojaz]

W/o going over every detail. H had meeting tonight. I was sleeping when he came home but i woke up and texted him to see if he was still up? I was to scared to go out and just check. He came in my room and sat down and we talked for an hour and half. I then told him why i really wanted him to come in "relations" he said that before that happens again we need to both clear up the intentions and etc behind it. He said he enjoys it very much with me but doesnt want me to think its how to fix our issues and he doesnt want me thinking hes using me. I agreed and told him i do hope we work stuff out but i realize sex doesnt fix problems and etc. we then did our thing and had long talk after about why he cant just move on and get passed this. Hes not sure why but he wants to get passed it and he said he knows divorcing me isnt fixing the problem. He still doesnt like the idea of a counselor. Needless to say i went back to bed and then so did too. 5 mins later he came back in my room saying he wanted to do something gentlmenly so he kissed me on check and hugged me and said good night.

 

Allie, I was writing a response to your other reply when you posted this and decided to bite my lip. I just hope your not setting yourself up for a big fall with your new course of action.

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

I won't go as far to say that Allie's husband is an abuser, but this new behavior shows he is definitely manipulating the situation.

[AllieKat]

I hope not either. I guess if i am i have only myself to blame now. Its hard to know what to do sometimes. Im so torn between my heart and my head and right now my heart is louder so im going with that. I think in the last 4 mths he HAS BEEN emotionally abusive but i have too. I have not been my best and i hope to get passed that. Im still not laying all my hope on the line just taking it day by day.

 

Im sure to some it sounds like im dumb and hes gaming me. Hes not that slick though. He told me where he is and right now im a little attention starved so im cashing in and reepung some of the marriage benefits before they are gone. The sex has been a good tension release for me and him i think too. Heres hoping i dont end up looking as dumb as i sound

[Yasuandio]

I hope not either. I guess if i am i have only myself to blame now. Its hard to know what to do sometimes. Im so torn between my heart and my head and right now my heart is louder so im going with that. I think in the last 4 mths he HAS BEEN emotionally abusive but i have too. I have not been my best and i hope to get passed that. Im still not laying all my hope on the line just taking it day by day.

 

Im sure to some it sounds like im dumb and hes gaming me. Hes not that slick though. He told me where he is and right now im a little attention starved so im cashing in and reepung some of the marriage benefits before they are gone. The sex has been a good tension release for me and him i think too. Heres hoping i dont end up looking as dumb as i sound

 

Folks, no one is manipulating Allie to have sex. She is an adult - and, has the desire for sex, and is the person who has been either luring her husband into a sexual encounter, or directly asking him for "relations." Each time, he reminds her of his stance on the marital issue, both prior and after the event.

 

It is entirely possible that the couple becoming "one" sexually, may be the last hope for a form of communcation, that can actually mend their fenses, will develop. I put particular emphasis on the word "possible," because no really one knows. And we cannot stop Allie from her course of action, she is clearly going to do anything to save her marriage, even if ill-advised.

 

I certainly would not advise having sex with a person that in intent on divorcing you. Even in the case Ihad the impression he had changed his mind, as in my case, I would take some time, and make sure. By going thru with it, my x-husband went immediately back to the divorce position, it was just too painful, and confusing - and didn't really phase my partner one way or the other. I cannot imagine having sex knowing for sure the divorce is gonna happen and I don't wish for it.

 

Maybe her husband is a control freak, it's just talk? Is that possible? IDK, Allie, please be careful with your tender heart. This course of action seldom works. I hope it does for you, but I will tell you now, I am scared for you. Yas

[AllieKat]

Yas thank so much! This morning hubby was very sweet he followed me around and kept kissing and hugging me. He iniated all of that. We some good conversation we laughed and joked and were filling each other in on the last few months. He keeps apologizing for the incident with the cops too. I know Im not typical of stories on LS but if we parted ways today I would have more peace then I would last week. Laughing with him and seeing him look at me like he used to is nice and even if it doesnt last Im blessed for seeing it one last time.

[AllieKat]

Just to be clear! I absolutely am not getting hope out of the sex. Its sex! My hope is coming from the talking, the laughter, the hugs, kisses, the looks. The sex does help with the stress and i feel it releases tension. In hubby defense he is the one trying to get sex. I asked him in my room last night.

 

I get everyone is trying to help and i do appreciate it. I just dont want ppl thinking I'm nieve enough to belueve the sex will fix things or that its making me hopeful because im not!

[Steen719]

I hope not either. I guess if i am i have only myself to blame now. Its hard to know what to do sometimes. Im so torn between my heart and my head and right now my heart is louder so im going with that. I think in the last 4 mths he HAS BEEN emotionally abusive but i have too. I have not been my best and i hope to get passed that. Im still not laying all my hope on the line just taking it day by day.

 

Im sure to some it sounds like im dumb and hes gaming me. Hes not that slick though. He told me where he is and right now im a little attention starved so im cashing in and reepung some of the marriage benefits before they are gone. The sex has been a good tension release for me and him i think too. Heres hoping i dont end up looking as dumb as i sound

 

I think we all have many different ideas about what is going on, Allie, but I don't anyone would say you were dumb to want your marriage to work so much that you believe it might work out. Don't call yourself that either. Your eyes are open and if your marriage does not work out, you knew that it might not and you did what you could. Not every move we all make is the right one and so who knows what is right or not. Just do not call yourself dumb. Build yourself up, not down.

[Yasuandio]

I think we all have many different ideas about what is going on, Allie, but I don't anyone would say you were dumb to want your marriage to work so much that you believe it might work out. Don't call yourself that either. Your eyes are open and if your marriage does not work out, you knew that it might not and you did what you could. Not every move we all make is the right one and so who knows what is right or not. Just do not call yourself dumb. Build yourself up, not down.

 

Yes, while if I had it to do over, I would not do it. Actually, I would have filed for divorce in Greece soon after abandonment, and stayed. I was doing nothing but getting healthier by being away from him.

 

But on the other hand, I came home, I forgave him, I accepted whren hr suddenly desired me - and I KNOW FOR SURE,

i did everything possible to save my marriage. I forgave him for the impossible, submitted to him, and found myself again rejected. So, that is that. Divorce is finished, and there are no unanswered questions in my mind regarding: Maybe I should have tried.....

 

If Allie can accept tht possibility - I certainly will accept my divorce. I see the theripist twice now a week. I'm working very diligently to overcome this crisis. I am going to be successful. You will too, Allie. I sense a strength in your latest responses.

 

However, I fear Tojaz is going to be disappointed in your choices, but I know he will understand. Nonetheless, you are a free woman. I certainly appreciate the opportunity to observe myself in your story - it is helping me grow, and to be strong during this transition period. Yas

[tojaz]

Just to be clear! I absolutely am not getting hope out of the sex. Its sex! My hope is coming from the talking, the laughter, the hugs, kisses, the looks. The sex does help with the stress and i feel it releases tension. In hubby defense he is the one trying to get sex. I asked him in my room last night.

 

I get everyone is trying to help and i do appreciate it. I just dont want ppl thinking I'm nieve enough to belueve the sex will fix things or that its making me hopeful because im not!

 

No Allie, but I think it will hurt you in the long run even if you aren't getting your hopes up (which you are, I'm not naive either)

 

What he has right now is his status quo plus all the benefits of a loving and faithful wife, but none of the responsibility that comes with it. He has what he was looking for, the ability to play house as he sees fit, but also has an escape route he can slip out of whenever he likes, and he can do so free of guilt because he told you flat out that was what he was doing.

 

I can understand craving the attention and the intimacy, but your going to fall a lot harder if he decides to shut it off again.

 

TOJAZ