Forgiveness

[AllieKat]

I guess my thinking on the bed was if he sleeps there with me thats a another step in the right direction. Not talking about sex or anything but hes made it clear when he was mad he wouldnt dare sleep in the same bed or go anywhere with me so im just keeping notes at this point.

 

I guess men and women think differently about rings but my hubby used to be the one that NEVER took his ring off till we had that fight so it bothers me much more because i knew what it had meant.

[AllieKat]

I know your right to Tojaz im am looking for everything to be better today and its not even been two weeks since we had that huge fight and then talked about things. Hubby hasnt brought anything else up about the state of our marriage since his " working on our problems" talk. He did bring home his insurance info for "us" and its awful and expensive and he thinks "we" should look for better.

[AllieKat]

Well im bummed! Hubby and i got a bed and everything was fine till I asked him if I could go with him tomorrow night and do yard signs for the football players. This was my idea years ago and hubby and I started this tradition and the kids love it. Needless to say hubby told me someone else ( a coach) was going with him probably( with all the signs there would only be room for 1 passenger)So i thought about it and let him know in a really sincere nice way it bothered me. He wasnt pleased I could tell and kinda just made a face like "really?" I then said i thought I should tell you how it makes me feel in an effort to communicate better. He looked at me and said "Allie I'm still really hurt" he was nice but I could tell uncomfortable with the topic. I really wanted to talk more but we were home and had a bed to unload. I wanted to tell him about why I lied not to blame him just to explain it because he was questioning his part. So now what? Ugh this is the part i suck at the waiting and hoping part

[AllieKat]

Hes just going to bed now at 1:50 am and hes sleeping on floor! We just spent all that money on a new bed and hes not sleeping in it! I came out to see if he was coming to bed (hes been working on mapping addresses and directions for yard signs tomorrow night since about 10pm) and he has to be at work at 6am. I also came out because i am having a hard time sleeping in new bed and told him that, needless to say he got all pissy with me when i asked him if he was coming in and said if your not comfortable im not going to be so ill sleep where i know i can sleep. I said you mean we just spent all that money and you arent going to sleep there? He said im dog ass tired why are you wanting you fight? I told him i dont want to fight i just wanted him to come sleep in room. So basically things arent great!

 

Im not sure if this is all my fault or not but i think my asking him about going with him earlier to do signs and the fact i let him know i wasnt thrilled with that irked him and thats why he wasnt going to sleep in there. I just dont think hed be ok with dropping all that money on a bed and he spent so much time trying beds and then sleeping on floor!

 

Im feeling like that desperate girl again like back in june. It just seems like things are going sour again. Im wondering if i didnt read to much into the new found conversation and time together. He seemed like he was much more into me last week with the hugs and kisses and dates. Im afraid im going to go off on him again because im not happy all this uncertainity and waiting is driving me crazy. Now i just feel like nothing is going to work out. Im so down

[AllieKat]

If he admits hes still hurting does that mean he still cares?

[trippi1432]

Hmm, I recall....you have a car right? So go with them in your own car, do the things you like to do, this was something you have always been involved in so do it. Follow him and the coach around and put up those signs. Tell him you will meet him at such and such time, put yourself in the picture.

 

Tomorrow morning..ask him how his back feels (make sure you tell him how comfortable the bed is)...tell him you hope he has a good day at work..hell, pack him a lunch. You aren't desperate Allie, pride is pride..and 99.9% of the time a man's pride is his downfall.

[AllieKat]

I dunno trippi I dont think he take to kindly to me following him around, it seemed as though he just didnt want me to go. He did tell me though if i want to help i should take some signs tooand go around. As if i want to go w/o him.

 

Honestly I think in his mind I pushed him tonight and thats why he pulled back. I think if i hadnt made him uncomfortable with my feelings he would of slept in bed and no confrontation would of happened.

 

But i should be able to tell him stuff i mean Hello!!! Thats how we got into this mess becausei didnt feel like i could tell him. Thats something i have felt before to with him prior to this fight and sometimes i have felt like he isnt easy to tell bad things too. He gets upset easily and it sometimes felt directed at me.

 

On my part im seeing that i didnt give him the trust he had earned. Again this is prior to this fight. If he was 15 mins late coming home from work id get pissy and think wonder what hes REALLY doing, though i didnt usualy say anything when he came home i would give him the cold shoulder and not tell him why unless he jumped through hoops asking first. For my part either when wed have little tiffs i would pout till he came and kisses my ass even if i was wrong. That coupled with me throwing out threats of divorce over a tiny fight.

 

I see how i was difficult. He spoiled me and i would act like a brat when i didnt get my way. Those TOJAZ i think are the other issues. We never fought about sex, money, my dd or anything else. For my part Im insecure and ive put that on him.

[tojaz]

I dunno trippi I dont think he take to kindly to me following him around, it seemed as though he just didnt want me to go. He did tell me though if i want to help i should take some signs tooand go around. As if i want to go w/o him.

 

Honestly I think in his mind I pushed him tonight and thats why he pulled back. I think if i hadnt made him uncomfortable with my feelings he would of slept in bed and no confrontation would of happened.

 

But i should be able to tell him stuff i mean Hello!!! Thats how we got into this mess becausei didnt feel like i could tell him. Thats something i have felt before to with him prior to this fight and sometimes i have felt like he isnt easy to tell bad things too. He gets upset easily and it sometimes felt directed at me.

 

On my part im seeing that i didnt give him the trust he had earned. Again this is prior to this fight. If he was 15 mins late coming home from work id get pissy and think wonder what hes REALLY doing, though i didnt usualy say anything when he came home i would give him the cold shoulder and not tell him why unless he jumped through hoops asking first. For my part either when wed have little tiffs i would pout till he came and kisses my ass even if i was wrong. That coupled with me throwing out threats of divorce over a tiny fight.

 

I see how i was difficult. He spoiled me and i would act like a brat when i didnt get my way. Those TOJAZ i think are the other issues. We never fought about sex, money, my dd or anything else. For my part Im insecure and ive put that on him.

 

Ok Allie, well if you look back over yesterdays posts, do you see that you are STILL putting that on him?????

 

 

Trick question Allie, because your not putting anything on him right now but that is how he chooses to perceive it. Yes you are insecure at times and in those times you become needy. I don't really see that as a flaw until it reaches extremes like it has for you a couple of times, but it is not a pattern of behavior, just mistakes made in the heat of the moment.

 

How he is seeing things has a lot to do with the context of the situation, He sees you as being insecure every time you make a request because he is hypersensitive to that and your attempts to resecure the safety of your marriage. You are hypersensitive to his kind gestures and the things you perceive as slights because you keep looking at his behavior in the context of your marriage in normal times..... which this is not.

 

You mix the two and you have the cycle the two of you have been swirling in for months, tug of war, push pull, whatever you want to call it you guys are going to keep going round and round until one of you breaks the cycle and that person is going to have to be you Allie.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

Tojaz how do i break it? Does that mean i should keep my thoughts to myself? This is awful i barely sleep i feel like all that progress is shot to hell

[tojaz]

That advice has been posted on here many many times before Allie. You set a definite boundary and you stick to it. If hes working on the M then he does that, if he's out, then you put him out rather then letting him duck in and out of the gray area as he chooses, that back and forth has done more damage then anything else and you are the one that has allowed that because you are terrified of what might come next. he knows that, and hes using that so that he can have you there to play house when thats what he needs, but also has an escape route if that becomes too taxing on him. Remove the escape route! You put in him in a hall, at one end there is a fully declared and demonstrated commitment to rebuilding the marriage (notice i don't just say marriage because this is just to start on the path to that) on the other end there is an exit with a sturdy lock. There are no side doors, no windows, no cubby holes to hide in.

 

That all starts with you acknowledging that your going to be able to live without him, demonstrating that you will be able to live without him, but that you would not prefer to live without him, and then sticking to that with every word and every action you make.

 

Lay it out Allie, let him know that gassing up the car, and cleaning the litter box isn't going to keep you on the string anymore, its time for him to put his cards down, make his play, and decide what road he wants to be on, once he does, you have to keep him on it.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

I thought i had him on the path to rebuilding and working on it. But it seems the minute i voice my displeasure with him he shuts down. I mean if hewas out with a girl and i foundout and called him on it am i supposed to except thee cuse hes hurt? Thats just not fair to me right?

[tojaz]

I thought i had him on the path to rebuilding and working on it. But it seems the minute i voice my displeasure with him he shuts down. I mean if hewas out with a girl and i foundout and called him on it am i supposed to except thee cuse hes hurt? Thats just not fair to me right?

 

He shuts down because he knows nothing will come of it Allie.

 

:(You are unhappy> :mad:You voice your displeasure> :eek:He pulls back> :oYou cave out of fear> :confused:He moves a step closer> :love:You relent > :cool:He reverts to status quo> :(You are unhappy>.....

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

This time im not caving! Im going to keep on keeping on. I have to admit though i wasnt a nice as i could of been last night to him and i did let it slip im done im so done. That is that same old crap behavior i did before. I feel bad to cause he asked me last week to be patient as he tries to work through his crap and i said i would but it didnt even last 2 weeks toll my feathers are ruffling and the progress weve made wasnt enough for me. I knew if i said what i wanted to say it wouldnt go well but i choose to do it anyway.

 

 

Ugh allie is most impatient person in world

[AllieKat]

I want to add this too this am he handed me the insurance paperwork and was very nice and said here look this all over. So i guess hes still being nice and maybe me saying shutting down was wrong wording. He was uncomfortable with the conversation is i guess a better way to phrase it and maybe annoyed too at my push to get him to sleep in bed but he did still talk to me then. I realize im s lousy story explainer too i need to give all details instead of shortening it ?

[AllieKat]

Allie - I still think your H is dragging you through an awful large wringer for a lie most would consider on the trivial side of the curve. Or, if not trivial, then certainly understandable.

 

There is either more to your story or I would consider your H isn't the most stable personality. Again, think about your story from the POV of a friend telling you. Wouldn't you have some compassion re: the fear of losing a baby? Have you considered he's gaslighting you? Is it remotely possible he's beating you down over this to hide something unsavory of his own?

 

I get what your saying but no i dont think hes hiding anything! I really just do think hes hurting bad! Its hard to explain when nobody knows him but he was sooo very much in love with me and he would of trusted me naked in a room of male models if i was drunk and finding out i lied has destroyed him. I get because ive been there before with an ex. Worst part for him is i was his everything that must make it harder especially when your whole ppl have let you down

[trippi1432]

No Allie, he's your husband and being hurt would be no excuse to cheat; however, that is NOT what is happening here is it? Go back and read what you wrote about being needy....do you know that part of some of this is what you manifest yourself? These feelings of insecurity when he doesn't text back, when he's 15 minutes late....etc, these are manifested feelings you are having even when he is not aware of them. All he knows is he's getting the cold shoulder.

 

Why can't you go out and take DD and do the signs without him Allie...like you said, it's fun and the kids love it, you can do things and have fun with or without him can't you?

 

A lot of the reactions you have been having here are based on the image of who he was before all of this and the difference you see in him now. Instead of seeing things how they are and him as he is, you are trying to get him to fit your ideal image of how he SHOULD be. That is what happens when a person becomes needy.

 

I don't think that any of us here should discount what Allie wrote about before any of this took place and up the second time she stated she wanted a divorce. I don't think that is how it has been the entire 10 years Allie, but were things like that before the first time you threw the divorce word out the first time over a year ago?

 

I'm not convinced that your husband is a monster and is trying to punish you, I'm also not trying to put it all on you either. But until you can put yourself at the center of your world instead of what he is and isn't doing to make you happy, you aren't going to have healthy boundaries or healthy communication to work on the marriage as that seems what both of you do want, but don't know how to do it.

[AllieKat]

No Allie, he's your husband and being hurt would be no excuse to cheat; however, that is NOT what is happening here is it? Go back and read what you wrote about being needy....do you know that part of some of this is what you manifest yourself? These feelings of insecurity when he doesn't text back, when he's 15 minutes late....etc, these are manifested feelings you are having even when he is not aware of them. All he knows is he's getting the cold shoulder.

 

Why can't you go out and take DD and do the signs without him Allie...like you said, it's fun and the kids love it, you can do things and have fun with or without him can't you?

 

A lot of the reactions you have been having here are based on the image of who he was before all of this and the difference you see in him now. Instead of seeing things how they are and him as he is, you are trying to get him to fit your ideal image of how he SHOULD be. That is what happens when a person becomes needy.

 

I don't think that any of us here should discount what Allie wrote about before any of this took place and up the second time she stated she wanted a divorce. I don't think that is how it has been the entire 10 years Allie, but were things like that before the first time you threw the divorce word out the first time over a year ago?

 

I'm not convinced that your husband is a monster and is trying to punish you, I'm also not trying to put it all on you either. But until you can put yourself at the center of your world instead of what he is and isn't doing to make you happy, you aren't going to have healthy boundaries or healthy communication to work on the marriage as that seems what both of you do want, but don't know how to do it.

 

Trippi im am my worst enemy, i sit here and think of things hemight be doing instead of texting me. I let my imagination run wild till it eats me up and i cant quiet it and i take it and throw it at him. I will say i was never this bad, the uncertainity in our marriage is making it worse because im allowing it.

 

Before that first fight when i threatened divorce i wasnt this bad and i think as ive tried so hard to give him a baby i became insecure! Two years in feb is the first time i cried divorce and thats i think was my way of getting his attention because thats when we both but more him was so wrapped up in this football program it was consuming our lives to much and his time and i think i was jealous

 

As for the signs dd is going with a friend of hers so id be alone plus hubby is in charge of it so id have to be going to him to get signs. I think ill sit this out

 

On a side note hubby did tell me last week he told another married couple who are thinking of being on board together not to do it as it will cause issues in their marriage and its not worth it. He is quitting after this season too

[tojaz]

This time im not caving! Im going to keep on keeping on. I have to admit though i wasnt a nice as i could of been last night to him and i did let it slip im done im so done. That is that same old crap behavior i did before. I feel bad to cause he asked me last week to be patient as he tries to work through his crap and i said i would but it didnt even last 2 weeks toll my feathers are ruffling and the progress weve made wasnt enough for me. I knew if i said what i wanted to say it wouldnt go well but i choose to do it anyway.

 

 

Ugh allie is most impatient person in world

 

Allie, I don't want you to think I'm saying that this is something your husband is actively trying to do to you, because i don't believe thats the case.

 

Both of you are acting on instinct over and over again. You both wan't the same thing... too feel comfortable and secure, but right now that means different things to the both of you and both of you are digging in trying to hold on to that.

 

You may be impatient, but he is most definitely stalling, so who could blame you! Patient, impatient, it makes no difference really so long as you act deliberately and stick to your guns.

 

If he wants you to be patient, then he needs to give you something in return, even bill collectors can be patient so long as there is a payment plan in place.

 

TOJAZ

[tojaz]

the first time i cried divorce and thats i think was my way of getting his attention because thats when we both but more him was so wrapped up in this football program it was consuming our lives to much and his time and i think i was jealous

 

Alright new information! Why is this the first were hearing about this??

 

TOJAZ

[Yasuandio]

i did let it slip im done im so done. That is that same old crap behavior i did before.

 

 

Didn't something like this cause a break-up in the past?

 

Are you trying to "create a crisis?" I don't mean that in necessarily a bad way either. You know, Dobson, author of Love Must Be Tough, actually recommends a strategy that goes by same name (Sapientia refered to this book - and she was right; it is classic read, and outstanding advice). Dobson would not tell you to be this subtle, however. If you want to create a crisis, to make your husband wake up - you have to be very specific.

 

Now, while it is great that you have grown to recognize your impatience - that recognition isn't going to help you if you don't take control of it.

 

Perhaps your sub-conscious is guiding you into making these statements. Maybe, done deep, you know there has to be more to it - as Sapientia suggested.

 

And - you really are concerned about coming to him with the truth about important matters. I mean you cannot even tell him that. Is there something more that frightens you, honey?

 

Don't react - just think about it, ok? Yas

[Yasuandio]

Wouldn't you have some compassion re: the fear of losing a baby? Have you considered he's gaslighting you? Is it remotely possible he's beating you down over this to hide something unsavory of his own?

 

Allie,

 

Sapientia has fresh eyes. I'm not sure if she has read all your threads - but I find this a very enlightening observation from her. I would not put it on the back burner.

 

I know what it's like to be gas-lighted, and I know what it's like to "let yourself" be gas-lighted. You know something is there - but it is easier not to believe it, or not to think about it. I still don't want to know anything about it, it would be too painful. Don't get upset with me, just think about it, ok? Yas

[trippi1432]

Alright new information! Why is this the first were hearing about this??

 

TOJAZ

 

Good question.....it's been there here and there actually, mentioned.

[AllieKat]

Alright new information! Why is this the first were hearing about this??

 

TOJAZ

 

I think because im finally realizing something i may have wanted to admit to myself or outloud! Not being decietful im just taking a really honest raw look at myself and actions and im able to admit things i think i didnt want to before

[AllieKat]

@ yaz okie dokie ;-)

 

 

Hubby got sent home early from work his job is slow and its stressing him out because if they send him home early he loses money and we dont need that.

 

I sat him down nicely and we had a long talk just so we both are clear on where we stand. He said he has withdrawn a bit because he feels he may have given me to much hope and he doesnt want to do that. :'-(. He said though we have issues to work on he isnt on board with a reconil or a divorce right now he said hes just stuck. He knows thats not fair to me and if i feel i cant wait or i need to move on he understands. He said that he tried to force himself to get over the hurt last week by being touching and hugging me and kissing me but it fidnt change the hurt and the stuck position he feels. He said he just doesnt know what to do nothing seems to be the clear answer. He said even if we do work things out it will take time and he said maybe time will heal him but he doesnt know and doesnt want to give me false hope when he doesnt even know.

 

He said he feels like im not happy when we fight and when things are goung better im still not happy. He said things have been less tense and he doesnt dread coming home but he just doesnt have anything more to give right now. He said his instinct is to save the marriage but he says the trust has now been damaged and doesnt know how to get passed that because he feels like hes always going to be wondering now if what i say is true. He said he wishes there was a sign because he just doesnt know how to get passsed this.

 

About the signs he said he wants to avoid doung that with me cause it just reminds him of us doung it all these years and its just feels wrong right now. He said he avoids coffee just cause it reminds him of me and how he stood in line all night black friday to get me a keurig. That made me feel bad but i avoid things to that remind me of him. I let him know im here and i want to work on things if we can. He said regardless whathappens things will mot be how they were and i agreed i told him im hoping for a better healthier relationship. Hes worried im getting my hopes up to much and i am but now i will try not to since he pretty much told me hes just not sure.

 

I asked if hed consider going away with me he said hed think about but he wasnt sure. I was very calm as was he. He did say he hates rehashing what happened and he feels like thats all i do. He also said hes doing whats best for him right now and and us going doing things we used to feels like we are pretending things are good and he doesnt want to pretend. I said i loved him and if he has a decision either way please tell me. He said youll be the 2 nd one to know! Lol

 

Im good with this. It gave me some insight on how he sees my behaviors and i wont overthink this but i find it interesting he was trying to force a reconile. I told he shouldnt force anything hes not ready for. Im thinking Allie has got to get real with myself and stop the insanity so to speak. I think he needs to see actions from me and consistency which i haveonly done for a few weeks and then i fall off the wagon.

 

He used this analogy: i feel like im staring at a pile of rubble and i dont know if i should rebuild or just move on. I feel like im waiting on the insurance company to call and tell me what to do. He did say nobody will influence his decision so if im afraid his friends would or the gossips no worries.

 

Im still looking at pisitive here something is keeping him, otherwise if it was all just hurt and no trust I think it would be an easier choice.

[tojaz]

He has fear of failure!

 

Allie, a couple of years ago I bought myself a car. When i went to see it the guy was desperate to sell, its a VW and they are hard and expensive to work on, and this one had the dash lit up like a christmas tree.

 

When i talked to him, he told me he was sure it was going to cost a fortune to repair and he'd give me a good deal on it if I was still willing to buy it, I did even though i was a little worried it would turn into a lot more of a challenge then it was worth, I liked the car so I took a chance.

 

After getting it home and giving it a little bit of attention, I found that the trouble was just a small hose. Total cost to repair.... about 3 dollars and having enough courage to look under the hood.

 

While this story is true Allie it is also no coincidence that it is in terms your hubby could understand, because any devoted mechanic knows that any car can be brought back to life even if your just starting with a gas cap and bag of bolts. It also takes courage though, the ability to look at what others will see as a pile of rubble and being able to see the polished roadster that nobody else can.

 

Marriages in trouble are an awful lot like that. The ones that last the longest belong to people who aren't afraid of what happens when they break down, but are willing to get their hands dirty and put them back on the road again!

 

TOJAZ