Is Suicide Ever Justifiable?

[verhrzn]

This is a question I am always pondering. A lot of people I run into claim that there is no justifiable reason for suicide, that it's selfish and an easy way out, that it hurts the people around you, etc.

 

And yet, these same people say that someone taking their own lives is morally acceptable if that person has a terminal illness, if their death would improve their family's situation (the family is in massive debt, and a life insurance plan would save the family from bankruptcy.)

 

Are there situations when suicide is justifiable? If so, when?

[TaraMaiden]

No.

It might be understandable, but in my opinion, it is never justifiable.

 

 

Permanent solution to a temporary problem.

 

And trust me - I believe that statistically, the 'noble' incidents of people taking their own lives (to alleviate financial burdens on the family) are so few and far between as to be utterly negligible.

And how nice to know we're rich, because daddy shot himself....

And by the way, most life insurance plans will not pay out on suicides.

 

Someone committing assisted suicide for health reasons may be a slightly different situation, and frankly, I won't disrespect anyone by commenting further on that.

 

But in the main, it is a frankly, ultimately extremely selfish thing to do.

[writergal]

This is a question I am always pondering. A lot of people I run into claim that there is no justifiable reason for suicide, that it's selfish and an easy way out, that it hurts the people around you, etc.

 

And yet, these same people say that someone taking their own lives is morally acceptable if that person has a terminal illness, if their death would improve their family's situation (the family is in massive debt, and a life insurance plan would save the family from bankruptcy.)

 

Are there situations when suicide is justifiable? If so, when?

 

Really V? Haven't you pondered this question enough? You started a whole other thread stating that you were suicidal that brought TONS of posters running over to help you with advice. Enough already. Go focus on your blog about dating an ugly girl. That sounded like a great idea. It's a bit tiring to say the least and seems attention seeking. You're very obsessed with the topic of suicide.

 

Plus what's your need to start yet another suicide thread after the one you already wrote and created? Is it for an article you're writing? Or are you just procrastinating from your other writing? I believe all your questions about suicide were pretty thoroughly answered in your other thread.

[verhrzn]

But in the main, it is a frankly, ultimately extremely selfish thing to do.

 

I guess I just.... don't get this part. How is it selfish??

 

If you have minor children.... all right, I can buy the selfish part, because those children need a steady income and a parent in their lives, and may (through child-like understanding) blame themselves for their parent's death.

 

But if you're unattached.... not married, no kids, few extended family... who in the world would your death be harming? Another person could have the job you suck at. You have few friends (or any at all, which is why you're considering suicide in the first place) so it isn't as if you'd have a church full of mourners, anyway.

 

I just do not get the selfish angle. Could someone please explain that to me?

[verhrzn]

Really V? Haven't you pondered this question enough? You started a whole other thread stating that you were suicidal that brought TONS of posters running over to help you with advice. Enough already. Go focus on your blog about dating an ugly girl. That sounded like a great idea. It's a bit tiring to say the least and seems attention seeking. You're very obsessed with the topic of suicide.

 

Plus what's your need to start yet another suicide thread after the one you already wrote and created? Is it for an article you're writing? Or are you just procrastinating from your other writing? I believe all your questions about suicide were pretty thoroughly answered in your other thread.

 

My question as to WHY it's considered selfish wasn't, though.

 

And no, the blog was a stupid idea. It'd just be me, writing to myself. I can do that in a diary... no need to pour tons of effort into a public place that no body would read anyway.

 

I don't see anything wrong with continuing to contemplate suicide. What's so wrong with thinking about it?

[TaraMaiden]

maybe she's asking "What would people think of me if I really did it?"

 

she's got my answer.

[verhrzn]

maybe she's asking "What would people think of me if I really did it?"

 

she's got my answer.

 

Well nobody here would have any idea if I went through with it, and people in my real life wouldn't care for longer than 5 seconds, if that, so.... no.

 

I am just really confused and fascinated by this whole "it's selfish" thing. I do not understand why people say that, so I thought I'd ask.

[TaraMaiden]

I guess I just.... don't get this part. How is it selfish??

 

....

I just do not get the selfish angle. Could someone please explain that to me?

Ok, how are you planning to commit suicide?

Who will find you?

How long after you've killed yourself?

Who will have to clear up any mess?

arrange your funeral?

Who will pay for the expense involved in having to deal with your remains?

Tell your relatives, extended family or parents?

Will they feel they somehow failed you?

Will they wonder if there was anything they could have done to be more supportive, more loving, more sympathetic?

Will they wonder why you never spoke to them about this?

How will they remember you? As the girl who committed suicide, that's how....

And what answers will they have?

None.

how much self-reproach and guilt?

Who knows?

Why would you care anyway?

You killed yourself to get away from all this anyway, right?

 

so, if you are thinking of suicide, forget all of the above, because you really don't care enough to think of the fallout and consequences for others.

No suicide victim ever does.

[Lobouspo]

Its never justifiable, but as someone who works in law enforcement and frequently has interaction with people that have severe mental health issues, I can tell you there are some people so sick with such a bad chemical imbalance along with things such as PTSD and substance abuse, that it is a challenge just to function every day. Its like terminal cancer of the well being in a sense. You can mitigate the symptoms, but its always an uphill battle that unfortunately, many people lose.

[verhrzn]

Ok, how are you planning to commit suicide?

Who will find you?

How long after you've killed yourself?

Who will have to clear up any mess?

arrange your funeral?

Who will pay for the expense involved in having to deal with your remains?

Tell your relatives, extended family or parents?

Will they feel they somehow failed you?

Will they wonder if there was anything they could have done to be more supportive, more loving, more sympathetic?

Will they wonder why you never spoke to them about this?

How will they remember you? As the girl who committed suicide, that's how....

And what answers will they have?

None.

how much self-reproach and guilt?

Who knows?

Why would you care anyway?

You killed yourself to get away from all this anyway, right?

 

so, if you are thinking of suicide, forget all of the above, because you really don't care enough to think of the fallout and consequences for others.

No suicide victim ever does.

 

Okay, let's say hypothetically a victim has thought of the above, and how to address those concerns in a non-dramatic way.

 

For example: commit the act near/at a hospital, where the people involved would be desensitized to death. Pay for the funeral costs out of a savings fund. Write a note explaining that this is just how it is, no need to blame themselves, death is just a part of life, sometimes life is just not fair and it ends.

 

In other words, what if there was a way to deal with suicide in a responsible fashion, so there's no muss, no fuss in the aftermath? Then is it still selfish?

 

Its never justifiable, but as someone who works in law enforcement and frequently has interaction with people that have severe mental health issues, I can tell you there are some people so sick with such a bad chemical imbalance along with things such as PTSD and substance abuse, that it is a challenge just to function every day. Its like terminal cancer of the well being in a sense. You can mitigate the symptoms, but its always an uphill battle that unfortunately, many people lose.

 

That kinda sounds like you saying it IS justified in situations where life is nothing but a struggle, yeah?

[Feelin Frisky]

I wouldn't say one way or the other because it's too complex a subject to communicate in a few sentences without risking giving wrong impressions and I would not want to be the one to influence anyone to trivialize it much less justify it. I know first hand though that even people with the most positive attitudes and beliefs can become mentally unwell where suicide seems like a solution--and it is not what most people jump to conclusion to think. Often people who contemplate suicide and attempt it feel that they the opposite of selfish--in their minds they feel they are removing themselves from the concern of other people so that those people can be free. In reality those other people usually will just see it as a terribly sad act that they can't understand instead of thinking what a thoughtful thing this person did for me. it's a mad confusion of perceptions.

[writergal]

My question as to WHY it's considered selfish wasn't, though.

 

And no, the blog was a stupid idea. It'd just be me, writing to myself. I can do that in a diary... no need to pour tons of effort into a public place that no body would read anyway.

 

I don't see anything wrong with continuing to contemplate suicide. What's so wrong with thinking about it?

 

So the other suicide thread was a preface to the novel you're writing about suicide? And the "Why" of this thread is perhaps your first chapter outline?

 

What will chapter two be? I can't wait. That means you can't commit suicide until you finish writing your novel on suicide.

[verhrzn]

So the other suicide thread was a preface to the novel you're writing about suicide? And the "Why" of this thread is perhaps your first chapter outline?

 

What will chapter two be? I can't wait. That means you can't commit suicide until you finish writing your novel on suicide.

 

I'm not writing a novel about suicide. Apologies if you're making a joke and I don't get it, I can't read humor via text very well online...

[Ross MwcFan]

No.

It might be understandable, but in my opinion, it is never justifiable.

 

 

Permanent solution to a temporary problem.

 

And trust me - I believe that statistically, the 'noble' incidents of people taking their own lives (to alleviate financial burdens on the family) are so few and far between as to be utterly negligible.

And how nice to know we're rich, because daddy shot himself....

And by the way, most life insurance plans will not pay out on suicides.

 

Someone committing assisted suicide for health reasons may be a slightly different situation, and frankly, I won't disrespect anyone by commenting further on that.

 

But in the main, it is a frankly, ultimately extremely selfish thing to do.

 

Isn't wanting someone who you care about to live when their life is so unbearable that they'd rather be dead selfish?

 

And come on, you can't believe that there's no such thing as a permenant problem.

[Ross MwcFan]

I guess I just.... don't get this part. How is it selfish??

 

If you have minor children.... all right, I can buy the selfish part, because those children need a steady income and a parent in their lives, and may (through child-like understanding) blame themselves for their parent's death.

 

But if you're unattached.... not married, no kids, few extended family... who in the world would your death be harming? Another person could have the job you suck at. You have few friends (or any at all, which is why you're considering suicide in the first place) so it isn't as if you'd have a church full of mourners, anyway.

 

I just do not get the selfish angle. Could someone please explain that to me?

 

The best that I can explain it to you is that the people who call it selfish do so because they're cold and unsympathetic.

[Ross MwcFan]

maybe she's asking "What would people think of me if I really did it?"

 

she's got my answer.

 

And shame on you for that.

[TaraMaiden]

Ross, trust me - you don't know the half of my life, and if you did, you might have a re-think on that....

 

Truly, you might.

[writergal]

I'm not writing a novel about suicide. Apologies if you're making a joke and I don't get it, I can't read humor via text very well online...

 

I'm totally making a joke...

 

I think if you aren't going to do the ugly girl dating blog (which I still think would be a fun project for you) then maybe you should write a lengthy article on suicide from a girl's perspective, gleaning insights and advice from all the posters here, then try to publish it.

[TaraMaiden]

Isn't wanting someone who you care about to live when their life is so unbearable that they'd rather be dead selfish?

In what context?

 

And come on, you can't believe that there's no such thing as a permenant problem.

There's no such thing as a permanent 'anything.

[verhrzn]

Ross, trust me - you don't know the half of my life, and if you did, you might have a re-think on that....

 

Truly, you might.

 

Well, I don't agree with Ross necessarily that people who say suicide is selfish are cold or unsympathetic. I'm sure, as you've said, some of them have also had very difficult periods in their life.

 

However, it isn't right to overlay one person's life experience with another's. I don't get to point to someone else and say they have it better/worse than I do... I don't get to make a decision about the quality of their own life, only they get to do that. So why is it morally upstanding for someone to point to a suicidal person and tell them what their life is like? (It's selfish, your life isn't that bad, etc.)

 

If we say that we each get to be responsible for our own bodies (drugs, medical procedures) because we each know our life situation the best, then why is suicide the exception?

 

I'm totally making a joke...

 

I think if you aren't going to do the ugly girl dating blog (which I still think would be a fun project for you) then maybe you should write a lengthy article on suicide from a girl's perspective, gleaning insights and advice from all the posters here, then try to publish it.

 

Ah see, I don't get tone online.

 

Try to publish it where? Haha, that's part of why I'm not doing the blog, my writing is pure sh*t. Why do you think an entire article on suicide would be interesting, let alone publish-able? You're the Writer Gal, not me.

[writergal]

Ah see, I don't get tone online.

 

Try to publish it where? Haha, that's part of why I'm not doing the blog, my writing is pure sh*t. Why do you think an entire article on suicide would be interesting, let alone publish-able? You're the Writer Gal, not me.

 

Yeah, but can you imagine how loud it would be in LS if people's voices were embedded in their posts for the sake of tone? J/k (abbrev. for joke).

 

Publish it on suicide prevent websites or print magazines about women's health. There are plenty of online websites or print magazines where your article could serve to help prevent it. You just need to research it, then contact an editor via email and attach a clip of your article.

[Ross MwcFan]

In what context?

 

I'm not sure what you mean.

 

 

There's no such thing as a permanent 'anything.

 

Well, I mean permanent as in for the rest of their lives.

[verhrzn]

Yeah, but can you imagine how loud it would be in LS if people's voices were embedded in their posts for the sake of tone? J/k (abbrev. for joke).

 

Publish it on suicide prevent websites or print magazines about women's health. There are plenty of online websites or print magazines where your article could serve to help prevent it. You just need to research it, then contact an editor via email and attach a clip of your article.

 

But... why would my article be about preventing it? I mean, I'm wondering if there aren't lots of times where it's justified, and actually the lesser of evils.

 

Added note: I change my opinion about posters not noticing. Some posters who notice I wasn't around anymore, and they would be ecstatic. So, there, my suicide would in fact be a selfless act of humanity for people on this board. See why I'm confused about suicide being considered inherently selfish?

Edited June 29, 2012 by verhrzn

[TaraMaiden]

I'm not sure what you mean.

You said:

Isn't wanting someone who you care about to live when their life is so unbearable that they'd rather be dead selfish?

I asked about the context, because if a person is terminally ill, in great pain, and discomfort, and is begging anyone who will listen, to end their lives, then that' a subject matter I'm not prepared to go too far into.

 

In other scenarios, if you want someone to live that badly - tell them. Don't assume they know, because if suicide happens, everyone loses out, don't they?

 

Well, I mean permanent as in for the rest of their lives.

Such as....?

[verhrzn]

Such as....?

 

Ugliness. Can't cure ugly (unless you're rich) or a bad personality. Those are permanent, and severely undermine the quality of life for the people experiencing them.