Silly_Girl Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I agree Spark. I don’t think feminism or gender has anything to do with it frankly. When you (woman or man) care for someone and value them, you like doing things for them and go out of your way to make them feel safe, loved, provided for. OMG! I could not agree more....and I, the feminist, go back to my earlier post. Call me a realist in having ONLY older brothers, many of them, and mostly uncles. i do not care that it is 2012, and whether you are comfortable or not with accepting, but women, PLEASE, take note: If a man TRULY cares for you, he will TRY to spend his last dime on you to ensure your are safe, provided for, and happy. Anything less from a man, is much, much less. Miss Bee, I think you and I agree broadly on this, in that the gender is not and should not be relevant Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Well gues what? he did text me the following morning asking me to please pay for him!!! to which I replied "of course I will!" to which he responded "whatever". I told him I would not even think about it twice, I would do it, because I do not mind spending money and paying for the one I love. So yes, I would have paid for him but after the way he approached the subject, he killed the moment, he killed the joy! Okay, he wants YOU to pay for him, buy the ticket and expenses? If you said yes, then he is taking advantage of you. We cannot prevent anything bad from happening, something like that could happen to us here on any given day!! We see each other regularly so we could have an accident at anytime. I do know he is taking a chance, I mean, telling W he is going to the caribbean by himself, who would believe that? So where are his priorities? Why would he put himself in that position? I do expect my partner to be a gentleman and invite and treat me every now and then. Because I do the same for him. Vacations are no different. Different price range but no different than inviting someone to a movie, dinner, concert, etc. and like I have mentioned before, I do not like to be a burden on anyone and he knows that and I've demonstrated it to him. I would not have let him pay for everything because that is the way we have worked since the beginning. We are both very fair with each other regarding money. An accident close by and you there is more explainable. An accident away on holidays with another woman and an accident happens, is NOT explainable. He is selfish and thinks/believes he'll never get caught. Either he is an excellent liar and has manipulated his wife so well so she doesn't doubt his words or they live separate lives, he does his thing and she does hers. Maybe she has an OM on the side too.. Anyway, I still think it's not right for you to expect him to pay your costs on this trip. Sure, dinners etc are one thing, but to pay your ticket too? nope. You can pay that on your own.. Link to post Share on other sites
MissBee Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) Miss Bee, I think you and I agree broadly on this, in that the gender is not and should not be relevant I read it as specifically talking about a man, since the OP is a woman and she's dating a man, but I can also see how it may be a generalized statement about the role of men in relationships. To the latter interpretation, I will say that I am unconventional about lots of things and more traditional about others. One traditional view point I have is on the dating process and the initiative to be made by the man in that process in the beginning. Once we're in an established relationship then I am more egalitarian, but for me, I want to see a man who is giving and willing, who takes initiative and who doesn't have a problem doing so when he is courting me. I do understand the arguments in feminism about chivalry and it not being that great of a thing and can see where it makes sense, but I would be lying if I said I didn't like a chivalrous man and some aspects of that role. The OP seems to be a woman who is of the same mind and my advice to her is that if that is her preference, then she needs to date someone who feels the same. As for the MM in question, who even knows if he is just some "modern nontraditional guy" or it's the case that he would normally pay if she were his wife or regular girlfriend. I think that's the problem here and what is upsetting GettingTired, where the gender politics aren't as relevant so much as whether or not this scenario is showing he doesn't value her as much as he pretends to and if her being the OW is her choosing a position that lends itself to him not doing the kinds of things she'd like her man to do for her. Edited July 4, 2012 by MissBee Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Her OFFERING to NOW pay for HIM - is simply ALLOWING the MM to take advantage. I honestly don't think he EVER had true INTENTIONS of actually going - just another empty promise. I fully expect him to cause an argument now so he can use that as his empty "reason" NOT TO GO! He's a douche! 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) Are you kidding? The response to you was "whatever". You don't find that rude and it doesn't piss you off? If not, why the hell not?? What an asshat! Given that the original question from MM about whether OW would pay for him was via text I might suggest that his question, right from the start, was not genuine, but sarcastic, and maybe she missed that in a 160 char text. Look at his "whatever" response - immediately sarcastic, right? Almost as if he were already in that state of mind? Certainly if his question were genuine, her offer to pay for him wouldn't have turned him sarcastic, would it? So I can only surmise that he was f***ing with her in the first place, and his question about her paying for him was a poke at her, throwing it back in her face. That explanation is fully consistent with his sarcastic "whatever" reply when she answered "yes"... My statement stands. Paying for a wife is natural...an AP optional. Why be upset when you have chosen the option button? See, I'm still getting a kick every time someone declares a rule for what is "proper" between affair partners, as if the guidelines are written down somewhere, and she just never got a copy of the users's manual. (Not a knock on you, bnb - it's just amazing how twisted these situations get, especially as they become a kind of "normal".) Edited July 4, 2012 by Trimmer Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Didn't say it was a rule. Just what is natural and optional. No - I know, and I didn't mean that to come off as a poke at you. But even calling it "optional" is a kind of giving in - a kind of a normalization of the affair dynamic. I might suggest that it's a natural thing for a husband to pay for a wife's vacation expenses, and a totally unnatural thing for affair partners to lie and deceive their spouse(s) to go on a vacation together, no matter who pays! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 IF she wasn't his OW - we wouldn't be discussing this. He wouldn't have all these secrets to keep from BOTH of his women! Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I read it as specifically talking about a man, since the OP is a woman and she's dating a man, but I can also see how it may be a generalized statement about the role of men in relationships. Not wanting to t/j, you wrote a long post about genders, I was simply pointing out that you wrote a post beginning "I agree Spark" but then went on to post an opinion opposite of hers Link to post Share on other sites
scatterd Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 This guy does not sound like a great guy.He has a wife that he has been with for 19 years and has never taken her on vacation. I doubt he will wait last minute to tell her hes going on vacation. Really hes going to say I waited for you to get a passport and you did not so I am going on vacation. Divorce right there. This man is not truthful to you nor to her. He has no plan on getting divorce I bet he told her it was a business trip and the reason he will not pay for you because he does not want to get caught. I would dump him you can do so much better. Really would you be able to trust this guy watch him look how he treats his wife and after the new is gone with you why would he treat you any different? He and his wife could be sharing money also. I would really think about this before you even consider going. Sorry to be so blunt but I see red flags every where. Good Luck 2 Link to post Share on other sites
beachbabe82 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 My Billy would never entertain the idea of a 'Dutch' vacation. Why are you even bothering with all this since you said you were going to end it anyway? Did you tell him that this getaway was the prelude to break up? Someone said you did your part and he hasn't, but if his part is divorcing, did he ever say he was willing to divorce his wife to be with the mistress? I don't believe he and his wife have never traveled together or vacationed together. I think so many of us OW like to think that so we can fidel like we are better than or do mure funnier things than the wife. This MM is just showing through his actions and words that his OW is no more than a good time girl. Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 My Billy would never entertain the idea of a 'Dutch' vacation. Why are you even bothering with all this since you said you were going to end it anyway? Did you tell him that this getaway was the prelude to break up? Someone said you did your part and he hasn't, but if his part is divorcing, did he ever say he was willing to divorce his wife to be with the mistress? I don't believe he and his wife have never traveled together or vacationed together. I think so many of us OW like to think that so we can fidel like we are better than or do mure funnier things than the wife. This MM is just showing through his actions and words that his OW is no more than a good time girl. Your tone is so familiar. Do you mind if I ask whether you're an old member returning after an absence? I agree with you that the trip (and talk of it) is pointless if the plan is to split. Link to post Share on other sites
Author GettingTired09 Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 Hi all, A lot has happened since I posted this to get your opinions. It has been a difficult 8 weeks for me since I forced DDay 8 weeks ago, but the next few days in particular are going to be even tougher. These were the days we were planning on taking our dream caribbean vacation, he had asked for the days off already. All I can think of is "if I had not forced DDay everything would be okay, we would be there, we would be spending time together, enjoying our time in paradise!". In the 19 years they have been together, he has NEVER taken a vacation with W and I NEVER took vacation with my xH whom I was married to for 13 years (only for our honeymoon). But then I try to comfort myself and say "but circumstances would still be the same, you would still be the little dirty secret, he would still come back home and into bed with his W". I will include the threads regarding DDay I posted before. I have a couple of more updates to provide but I haven't been able to bring myself to post, I haven't reached that stage where I am ready to write more about it, I am however here on LS everyday reading other people's experiences. It took me a few tries to post this since I really need someone to encourage me and tell me things are going to be okay, I needed to vent because the pain I feel is horrible, I would be having so much fun right now with him, by the beach, we were so excited about it, but at what expense? at the expense of still being the OW and at the expense of his W. The A has ended. I prompted DDay and of course I was thrown under the bus and he has disappeared from my life. Our A that lasted 2.5 years, was intense, daily conversations and seeing each other often during the week and going out during the weekend, everything is gone, just like that and I was left on my own to pick up the pieces and heal, he on the other hand is nurturing his W's wounds. He was naturally pissed that I betrayed him but I always suspected the only way he would leave me alone would be if she knew about it. We did try to break it off many times on our own but he would always come back the next day saying it would be very difficult for him, that he did not want to loose me, that he loved me, that he would always be mine, that he missed me, that he was not doing well anymore, that he needed me, and I of course believed him everytime hoping that would be the last time and he really wanted me in his life forever. Now that W knows, he dropped me like an old rag and he disappeared from my life. He has been NC except for a call I received 4 weeks after Dday where he apologized for everything that happened (I guess by then he had cooled off). I will post an update soon, I am just nor ready yet, I'm still in a lot of pain. I tell myself "you should have been more patient, he was coming around, you should have waited more", but lately his hot 'n cold behavior was driving me crazy and I certainly did not deserve to be treated that way. I talked and met with his W, very nice lady, she said she knew all along but did not say anything, see, she was smart and just let the A die on its own, one of her comments was "that's how man are, what can I do? the damage has been done, now I have to go on for my children". So typical submissive behavior. You can read a lot more details about DDay, I will include the links to my previous threads. I just wanted to come back and update you all. A lot of you advised to end the A. Our vacation will now forever remain a fantasy and will forever remain a dream to me, the vacation we so much longed for and started planning did not materialize. I thank you for your support. It does help. I apologize if my thoughts are all over the place, I'm a mess right now. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/337202-dday-forced-me-ow-bs-spouse-called-me http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/other-man-woman/337488-bw-ow-meeting-person-more-detailed-update Link to post Share on other sites
canuckprincess Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Oh honey you will be better then ok, I know I haven't had to go through what you have, but my heart goes out to you. It sucks that he threw you under the bus. Like I've said before she can't keep him under house arrest forever, we both know he'll be back, give it time. Start dating and enjoy being you, your a beautiful woman! I believe he is just telling her what she needs to hear right now so that she will trust him again and once that happens she'll let her guard down and it will be just like old times. You should still take a trip or do something to make you feel good, take care of yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Take this time to DO nice things for yourself! Go get a massage, pedicure and go out to eat at a nice place! Maybe invite a friend to join you. Distract yourself and have some great fun! Link to post Share on other sites
veryhappy Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Don't blame yourself. More time wouldn't have made a difference. The dream vacation would have been just a dream and kept you there even more because you would have thought about the memories, more hopeful than ever. I'm sorry it's been just a fantasy for him, and he threw you under the bus. The truth hurts, being just another case of looking at the tire tracks on yourself hurts, but now you know where you stand. I read this advice somewhere for BS to just let things die on their own. I suppose it works, but it sounds like waiting for a dog to come back. I mean you know he'll be back, so why bother when he wanders a little. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 but it sounds like waiting for a dog to come back. I mean you know he'll be back, so why bother when he wanders a little. The problem is the fleas the dog brings back into the house GettingTired09.. I think the problem is you invested much more in him than he did in you and now you know the truth you should realize that the truth of the whole vacation is that it was just a fallacy and forcing "D" day didn't ruin it.... he was just feeding you a line. Sorry you are hurting, you need to get back out there and find a guy that suits you better than he did... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
CarrieT Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Be honest and upfront about it. Say, "I've decided not to go on the trip afterall. I'm not comfortable with you not wanting to pay for it when I know that you can afford it. If you wanted to treat me like a Queen, like you said you did, you would gladly want to pay for this trip together". That's all that needs to be said. End of conversation. I HATE stingy men. You really should read the whole thread and not just the first post. The OP ended her affair... Link to post Share on other sites
scatterd Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I am sorry you are hurting. I know you are in pain right now but this to will pass. Someday you will go on a fantasy vacation with a man that will offer you more. I believe things happen for a reason the reasons are not always clear at first. Maybe you had to learn something to appreciate the man that will be in your life later. In time you will heal and look back on this in a different way. Stay busy and concentrate on your self. I hope you feel better soon. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
seren Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I am sorry you are hurting, it sounds like you were in deep with the MM so you will be bound to hurt at the way it has ended. When any relationship ends there will be, if we were together we would be doing this, or that, or whatever and if you had gone and it had ended, you would be puzzling as to how he could have gone on holiday with you and then not followed through when he had the chance to on D Day. It doesn't make it any easier for you, but sometimes nothing makes sense until time and distance make it easier to examine how things really were. I hope you don't take the ending as something you did or didn't do right, playing the blame game just extends pain. Thing is, he said one thing and possibly meant all that he said, but he also said one thing and meant another to his wife. I hope you are able to heal and move on and find someone in time, to go with you on your lovely holiday. x 3 Link to post Share on other sites
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