Our First Get Away - MM wants to go Dutch??

[GettingTired09]

Spark, that is exactly how I feel (that if he truly loved me he'd want to protect, profess and provide for me), because that is what I do for him, I provide him with my help when he needs it in different aspects, I like to take care of him. He turns to me for advice, for guidance and I am always there for him.

 

I am not expecting him to overspend on me, like I said, I carry my own weight but he was so abrupt about the way he approached the subject. Perhaps if he could have been a little more sensitive about it.

 

He does not provide for me in any manner Spark (no gas, no bills, help around house), I would never ask that of him.

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

OMG!

 

Move on.

 

If a man truly loves you, he want to protect, profess and provide for you!

 

A man in love will try to spend his last dime on you if you are the type to let him. He will almost ruin himself for you.

 

Obviously, there finances are not as separate as you have been led to believe, or the economic times,being what they currently are, he can no longer to pay for your half of this much talked of and dreamed of vacation away together.

 

Just yuck!

 

I feel for you and I am sorry that you have to endure this. Does he put gas in your car? Try to help you with bills? Help you around the house or apt?

 

How EXACTLY does he show you he cares for you?

 

Resources are VERY PRIMAL to a man, and if suddenly they are scarce when it comes to taking you away, I would be very, very angry and suspect about his intentions to leave his marriage and homestead for you.

[GettingTired09]

I don't think him not wanting to pay for my part is an indication of him not leaving and has anything to do with W, he is taking a huge risk by going on vacation for 5 days "by himself" and he is at a point where he does not care what she thinks or does. They lead separate lives, they really do.

 

I am definitely reaching my limit, I will not give him an ultimatum because I feel I should not pressure anybody to be with me. If he was not able to make a decision in these 2.5 years, that is his choice. I also understand that he does not see the need to make a change because I am there for him and allowing this situation.

 

 

Well I'm going to venture a guess that him not wanting to pay for your part is another indication of what you already know, (that he is likely not leaving). The reason I say this, is he does not want to take the chance that his wife will find missing money and ask him questions. I know you said they have separate accounts but you only have his word, right? And, even if they do have separate accounts it doesn't mean that she doesn't have access to his account and won't ask questions.

 

Do you have a time limit on this guy? I hope you do, because it doesn't sound like he is doing anything definite besides future faking with talk but no actions. Conflicted is cake eating.

[Silly_Girl]

Spark, that is exactly how I feel (that if he truly loved me he'd want to protect, profess and provide for me), because that is what I do for him,

 

you pay for him to take holidays?

[GettingTired09]

You are so right!! I did not even think about something like this but you are correct. He will definitely not be willing to pay the cost of a divorce. I will use this as one of my talking points when I talk to him about this vacation issue. I have to put my thoughts in order and what you mentioned will definitely be part of my conversation. Leaving the trip issue aside and looking in depth at the situation, you are right. He is not going to spend money on a divorce. I need to stop kidding myself.

 

 

If he's not willing to pay for you to take a few days of vacation with him - he's certainly not going to pay the money a divorce will cost him!

 

Take the vacation without him!!!

[GettingTired09]

Artie,

 

I did not end my marriage because of him. I was ready to leave. One thing my XH keeps telling me (because XH knows about the affair) is exactly what you are saying, he keeps his marriage intact and in XH's opinion, that is just not fair (note: those are my XH's words, not mine, that is not the way I feel about it since I made the decision to divorce because of me, not because of MM).

 

I do feel the issue concerning the vacation shows how little he really thinks of me and I have a problem with that and is the reason I posted here because I want to see what other people's opinions are.

 

Thanks Artie.

 

he never intended to leave his wife. you finally realized it, so you're jumping ship.

 

listen- although i don't condone cheating -if you're in a better place from your previous relationship(marriage), then good for you. but if you ended your marriage for the sake of pursuing a legitimate relationship with this OM, then you really f!@#ed up.

 

he had the best of both worlds- a safe and secure marriage, and a mistress on the side. not only that, but he gets to keep his marriage intact.

 

you on the other hand, ended up with nothing but heartache. truth is, you sacrificed plenty to be with him while he scarificied very little.....really, close to nothing at all.

 

 

the issue concerning the vacation shows how little he really thinks of you.

 

GET IT?! GOT IT?! GOOD!

[Art_Critic]

I do feel the issue concerning the vacation shows how little he really thinks of me

 

I think you are correct GT.. you mentioned that he is taking the vacation by "himself".. I take that to mean his wife doesn't know you will be there ???

You also mentioned that he doesn't care what she thinks.. I disagree, he obviously doesn't want to have you on any receipts so when it comes to divorce court he can tell the judge that you paid your own way and are only a friend, he also doesn't want her to know that you are with him on the vacation... at least that is my read anyhow..

 

I think he is a very selfish man and he will not change.

[GettingTired09]

He is not going to give her advance notice about his vacation, when I asked how he was planning to handle that he said he will tell her a few days before departure that he is taking a vacation, by himself and see you in five days.

 

When and if she starts complaining about it and give him a hard time and tries to stop him (I know that's what I would do if I was the W) I am almost 100% sure this is what he is going to say because he has mentioned it before "Wife, I gave you plenty of notice (years) to go get your passport, you did not apply for one, I have told you in numerous occassions I want to travel and yet you NEVER applied for your passport so, I am leaving by myself". I kept asking him, "what if things get out of hand when you tell her and she demands that you don't go, what if she hides your passport" and he said he will go, he has decided to take the trip and he will do it. We shall see what happens if and when the day arrives (we have not booked the trip so it may never happen for all I know!)

 

 

Where does his W think he'll be while he's supposed to be vacationing with you?

 

He may be trying to sabotage it on purpose if his wife may get suspicious - he may not plan to go at all - but needs good reason to make you mad enough to say he's not going after all.

 

If any apply - its passive aggressive and cowardly at best...

[GettingTired09]

2sunny, I do not think he is trying to sabotage anything because this is barely in the planning process and he was the one that brought up the trip idea and wants to move forward with planning, he is the one pushing for it.

 

Where does his W think he'll be while he's supposed to be vacationing with you?

 

He may be trying to sabotage it on purpose if his wife may get suspicious - he may not plan to go at all - but needs good reason to make you mad enough to say he's not going after all.

 

If any apply - its passive aggressive and cowardly at best...

[MissBee]

He is not going to give her advance notice about his vacation, when I asked how he was planning to handle that he said he will tell her a few days before departure that he is taking a vacation, by himself and see you in five days.

 

When and if she starts complaining about it and give him a hard time and tries to stop him (I know that's what I would do if I was the W) I am almost 100% sure this is what he is going to say because he has mentioned it before "Wife, I gave you plenty of notice (years) to go get your passport, you did not apply for one, I have told you in numerous occassions I want to travel and yet you NEVER applied for your passport so, I am leaving by myself". I kept asking him, "what if things get out of hand when you tell her and she demands that you don't go, what if she hides your passport" and he said he will go, he has decided to take the trip and he will do it. We shall see what happens if and when the day arrives (we have not booked the trip so it may never happen for all I know!)

 

Seems he's a crass man overr all and the same way he planned to tell his wife a few days before: "Wife, I gave you plenty of notice (years) to go get your passport, you did not apply for one, I have told you in numerous occassions I want to travel and yet you NEVER applied for your passport so, I am leaving by myself". Is pretty much the EXACT way he has handled planning to tell you you'd need to pay for your half- crassly, near to the vacation, and if you don't like it, too bad. It is no different. Who does that??? To both his wife and you it is rude and last minute.

 

Lovely guy...

[GettingTired09]

Well gues what? he did text me the following morning asking me to please pay for him!!! to which I replied "of course I will!" to which he responded "whatever". I told him I would not even think about it twice, I would do it, because I do not mind spending money and paying for the one I love.

 

So yes, I would have paid for him but after the way he approached the subject, he killed the moment, he killed the joy!

 

 

 

So you are saying that because he has a penis and you have a vagina, he should pay for you? I've never understood this logic. Alternatively, if paying for someone is a way of proving your love, why don't you prove your love to him by paying for the whole trip? Isn't that what you want him to do? Why doesn't it work both ways?

[SarahRose]

Seems he's a crass man overr all and the same way he planned to tell his wife a few days before: "Wife, I gave you plenty of notice (years) to go get your passport, you did not apply for one, I have told you in numerous occassions I want to travel and yet you NEVER applied for your passport so, I am leaving by myself". Is pretty much the EXACT way he has handled planning to tell you you'd need to pay for your half- crassly, near to the vacation, and if you don't like it, too bad. It is no different. Who does that??? To both his wife and you it is rude and last minute.

 

Lovely guy...

 

Yeah he sure has his lies planned out well for both of them.

 

Too bad OP seems blind to this

[GettingTired09]

Thank you Ladydrib for your words which describe very well how I feel and what I have been through!!! I have thought about them not taking vacations being his doing as well!!

 

Thanks for describing the way I feel in different words.

 

Your words encourage me to do what is right for me.

 

 

You should absolutely call it off! You are right, he's being petty and should be thrilled to go on a vacation with you if this is something he's always wanted to do and he loves you so much and you've not been able to be together that way!! He's not acting like someone who wants that as bad as he may have led you to believe. Makes me wonder if the reason he and his wife never took vacations was his doing - not hers.

 

If it were me, I hope I'd put my desire to go aside and cancel on him. I'd say, " listen, I thought this was important to you too. Based on the way you're behaving, I'd rather just not go." and then I'd like to say, "and I'm divorced now and free to do what I want. You still have all this baggage. Call me when you've sorted your stuff out".

 

You should be congratulating yourself! You have made some really tough decisions and taken some really difficult actions. You have cleared so much emotional clutter from your life and have a beautiful clean slate of hope in front of you. Only good things to come and I bet you're through the hardest parts. Take advantage of this opportunity you've bravely created for yourself. Focus on you. And tell Mr. Lover boy to move it on out!

[Trimmer]

I am willing to bet it's not about the money. It's more about the message he is sending her that the money is even an issue.

His failing this test (will he pay for me to go on a vacation with him?) is really a surrogate for the test that is most on her mind, that she can't bear to face directly (will he leave his wife to be with me?)

 

Let me get this straight.. you don't want to call it off because he is married but want to call it off because he wants you to pay for your half of a vacation ?

Yeah, I'm enchanted by the thoughtful exchange in this thread over what is the "right" way for a MM to treat his OW - what is "proper" for her to expect.

 

So if he's such a cad because he expects her to pay her own way, would it make him a good guy - would he be doing the right thing - if he changed his mind and agreed to pay for her?

 

Nothing of what this MM is doing is right by either woman.

[GettingTired09]

Yes, he is exhausted, of course, he does not like the situation at all, he knows the relationship with me deserves better but putting his family through a divorce is not an easy decision. He does not juggle time with W because he does not spend time with her, he spends time with the kids on the weekend, but as a couple, they do not. They have very different work schedules and they do not see each other much and he says it is okay with him. He does not account for every one of his dimes.

 

 

 

If you decide to have an affair with a person who is legally obligated and attached to somebody else, he's not going to ever show, in any way whatsoever, to that person, that he's "Eating for two".

Stands to reason...

"What do you mean, the hotel bill was over a $1000...?!!?"

 

"Well, I used the mini-bar a lot...."

 

 

He is living a complete lie, lying to his wife, and lying to you.

that must be exhausting...

 

Juggling time with you, juggling time with his wife, accounting for every dime... keeping all the plates spinning must take a lot of energy...

 

the poor guy needs a holiday...

[GettingTired09]

We cannot prevent anything bad from happening, something like that could happen to us here on any given day!! We see each other regularly so we could have an accident at anytime.

 

I do know he is taking a chance, I mean, telling W he is going to the caribbean by himself, who would believe that? So where are his priorities? Why would he put himself in that position?

 

I do expect my partner to be a gentleman and invite and treat me every now and then. Because I do the same for him. Vacations are no different. Different price range but no different than inviting someone to a movie, dinner, concert, etc. and like I have mentioned before, I do not like to be a burden on anyone and he knows that and I've demonstrated it to him. I would not have let him pay for everything because that is the way we have worked since the beginning. We are both very fair with each other regarding money.

 

 

To expect him to pay your expenses is ridiculous. Sorry but it would be the same if he was your boyfriend and you two weren't living together. You're not married to him, you aren't his girlfriend..You are his OW on the side. It's an affair so it is unfair of you to even put this on him.

 

If you want to go away with him, do so, but YOU pay for your own flight ticket. He has NO obligation to you. Sorry to be blunt but you need a reality check here.

 

You better hope nothing bad (health wise, or an accident) happens while away. You two are taking a chance by going away together.

[GettingTired09]

Ladydrib, you are absolutely right, of course it is not about the money but the message he is sending and they way he approached the issue!!.

 

 

I am willing to bet it's not about the money. It's more about the message he is sending her that the money is even an issue. It's either saying one or both of the following:

 

1. He is concerned because he's trying to keep it secret which would indicate he does not in fact plan on leaving to be with her as he has said.

 

2. The trip is not that important to him if he's stressing about money.

 

And with that, seems to me if she feels she's waited long enough for him to be available, these are clear signs for her to implement her expiration date on their relationship/affair.

[2sure]

Until that vacation is booked, discussion of who pays for what doesn't matter.

 

You have given him fidelity, your time on his inconvenient schedule, your support when he needs it, your affection, possibly love....and in exchange because of his restrictions you don't get much . A vacation is just a gift, one he may be capable of giving , just to show that he does care. It isnt prostitution to take it.

 

I mean, don't have an affair with a MM...but if you are fool enough to...it should work for you a little.

 

Tell him to book your ticket and hotel and worry about if he can join you later. Geez.

[Spark1111]

Until that vacation is booked, discussion of who pays for what doesn't matter.

 

You have given him fidelity, your time on his inconvenient schedule, your support when he needs it, your affection, possibly love....and in exchange because of his restrictions you don't get much . A vacation is just a gift, one he may be capable of giving , just to show that he does care. It isnt prostitution to take it.

 

I mean, don't have an affair with a MM...but if you are fool enough to...it should work for you a little.

 

Tell him to book your ticket and hotel and worry about if he can join you later. Geez.

 

OMG! I could not agree more....and I, the feminist, go back to my earlier post.

 

Call me a realist in having ONLY older brothers, many of them, and mostly uncles.

 

i do not care that it is 2012, and whether you are comfortable or not with accepting, but women, PLEASE, take note:

 

If a man TRULY cares for you, he will TRY to spend his last dime on you to ensure your are safe, provided for, and happy.

 

Anything less from a man, is much, much less.

[MissBee]

Until that vacation is booked, discussion of who pays for what doesn't matter.

 

You have given him fidelity, your time on his inconvenient schedule, your support when he needs it, your affection, possibly love....and in exchange because of his restrictions you don't get much . A vacation is just a gift, one he may be capable of giving , just to show that he does care. It isnt prostitution to take it.

I mean, don't have an affair with a MM...but if you are fool enough to...it should work for you a little.

 

Tell him to book your ticket and hotel and worry about if he can join you later. Geez.

 

 

I couldn't agree more!

[Silly_Girl]

OMG! I could not agree more....and I, the feminist, go back to my earlier post.

 

Call me a realist in having ONLY older brothers, many of them, and mostly uncles.

 

i do not care that it is 2012, and whether you are comfortable or not with accepting, but women, PLEASE, take note:

 

If a man TRULY cares for you, he will TRY to spend his last dime on you to ensure your are safe, provided for, and happy.

 

Anything less from a man, is much, much less.

 

Spark, are you serious with the 'feminist' mention? A man should skint himself out for you because you are the one with the breasts?? Penis = pays?

[2sunny]

Once again his words and actions don't match:

 

IF he didn't care what she did - IF she didn't care IF he was going on vacation with YOU ---> HE would be telling her the truth! But he's NOT!

[2sunny]

So now you're acting so desperate that YOU offer to pay for HIM? And he responds with "whatever"?

 

He's not going! And you're looking pathetic and now begging...

 

This guy is a first rate douche!

 

He can't get away cuz he's MARRIED!

[MissBee]

OMG! I could not agree more....and I, the feminist, go back to my earlier post.

 

Call me a realist in having ONLY older brothers, many of them, and mostly uncles.

 

i do not care that it is 2012, and whether you are comfortable or not with accepting, but women, PLEASE, take note:

 

If a man TRULY cares for you, he will TRY to spend his last dime on you to ensure your are safe, provided for, and happy.

 

Anything less from a man, is much, much less.

 

 

I agree Spark. I don’t think feminism or gender has anything to do with it frankly. When you (woman or man) care for someone and value them, you like doing things for them and go out of your way to make them feel safe, loved, provided for etc. The keyword as you say is TRY. I think that’s the point…the OP and most others can already tell in this man’s attitude that he is probably selfish with both is wife and OW.

 

I don’t think a man needs to spend all his money on me because he’s a man. I don’t judge a man based on how many things he’s paid for, but his attitude and generosity with his time, resources, affection etc. I can tell the difference between a man who gives freely with me and one who does not, and I think in the OP’s case, this incident is adding up with other things to make her judge his willingness to do that and so too how much he values her.

 

A man who gives of his time, affection, and financial resources (which is par for the course, as most things aren’t free in this world, so at some point something you and your SO want to do is going to cost) is someone I can appreciate and someone who I can tell is really into me. Like you said, if a man values you he will want to bend over backwards for you and that is not about throwing money at you, but in all areas. Just like if I value a man I naturally want to do things for him, sometimes those things cost and sometimes they don’t. If a man tried to tell me “Hope you know you’re paying for yourself” wtf…it’s not about money or about “penis pays”…it’s the clear attitude of cheapness and selfishness that it belies that doesn’t work for me. Likewise I would never say that to a guy I’m seeing or even a friend. It’s not about going dutch or not, it’s the entire bad taste this has left and what the OP knows is being said...the final straw on a relationship she's thinking of ending. She knows why it is uncomfortable to her, and many of us can see why this is a red flag as well, and I suggest she not try to pay for him or even have him pay for her but break it off now and leave him to himself.

[Silly_Girl]

When you (woman or man) care for someone and value them, you like doing things for them and go out of your way to make them feel safe, loved, provided for etc.

 

Looking at the bolded (by me) I think your post is at odds with Spark's.

[Furious]

This man is no king, and you and his wife are no queens.

 

Forget about who pays for what, it is irrelevant, he is simply a jerk.