What shape/form will Christ's 2nd coming take? (Christians Only )

[M30USA]

I have given a lot of thought about what Christ's second coming might look like. Don't get me wrong; obviously nobody can forsee the series of events--but I'm referring to the general characteristics of his second coming.

 

After studying all the Bible has to say, I'm left with the following points that need to be stressed:

 

1) His second coming will be a PHYSICAL event (as opposed to some kind of mystical, spiritual event).

 

2) He will NOT be welcomed. It says the nations of the earth will "mourn" when they see him return. Think about that. We'd like to think that the earth would welcome their savior, but just as they did 2000 years ago, they will oppose him.

 

3) We know he will return by descending upon the Mount of Olives in Israel since, when he ascended, the angels said he would return in the same fashion. What does it mean for him to descend? I mean, how will he descend? What will he look like and in what means will he come down?

 

This is where I will posit my own theory. I believe that Christ will come in what the prophet Ezekiel and Isaiah called the "chariots of the Lord". We have at least a dozen verses which suggest that God, himself, even rides in these "chariots". This is where the modern day UFO phenomenon loosely ties in with the Bible. Much of the UFO hype is total rubbish and fiction, but there really ARE flying objects that are not identified and they are proveably disc-shaped and behave in ways that defy known laws of physics.

 

Many have immediately labelled the UFO phenomenon as "demonic". I initially did. But after studying the Bible, I learned that EVERY SINGLE CASE of these "chariots" (after the Flood at least) is a holy chariot of the Lord. There isn't a single case (after the Flood at least) of a demonic chariot or UFO-type craft.

 

This leads me to my final point. I believe there will be a war. A real war. When the Book of Revelation says "and there was war in heaven", that is not some figurative phrase. I believe Christ will come with the host of angels and, once he reaches earth, all the nations of the earth will wage war against him.

 

For those who think this is total nonsense, listen to what General Douglas MacArthur said in 1955 upon his retirement: "The nations of the world will have to unite, for the next war will be an interplanetary war."

 

A man of his calibre surely wouldn't just spit that out like it was a far-fetched fantasy. What would make him say something like this?

 

And even for people who DO believe in some kind of future "alien invasion", have they ever given thought to WHO this "alien" might be that we fight against? What if the final mass deception that Satan pulls over the earth is to convince us that Christ is the enemy, an invading alien who is out to destroy us. Technically, that will be a PARTIAL TRUTH. Is Christ not coming to destroy the wicked who remain on earth? So in their eyes he WILL be the enemy. But the lie is that he is the loving, true God of the universe who they will take up arms against.

 

Think about how we are now attempting to unite our planet. Think about how we are weaponizing space. Weaponizing space!? What for? What if this whole weaponizing space is just some lie where they are preparing to create a perimeter defense around earth for when Christ returns? I mean, we KNOW he is going to PHYSICALLY return to earth. Is it that unrealistic?

[wuggle]

In the new film "prometheus" the scene opens with an alien (biped of course, can't have it too dissimilar to oursleves) landing on earth from another world and 'seeding' it with life of their creation. Interesting he does this by 'sacrificing' himself (ie deliberately physically breaking apart him own body & blood). The scene would certainly seem to tie in with your beliefs. Maybe then the second coming would be in a similar form ? an angel coming down and bringing something that mankind would want to oppose ? maybe death and deconstruction ? maybe a virus to undo what they did in the first place , ie to destroy all life on earth and return it to it's pure state ?

 

have you seen the film ? I think you probably should. Personally I thought it was rubbish, the opening scene was the only interesting one. But you might get something from it.

[pureinheart]

M30, it has been several years since doing a fairly exhaustive study concerning the Second Coming and Book of Revelations. Most tend to avoid this because it's a lot of symbolism (allegory) and some literal interpretation.

 

Can you imagine what John thought while being taken up and given these visions, and then putting it into words.

 

BTW, I really like your post and you have really helped me understand how the "alien" correlates to the Bible, that has answered soooo many questions, so thank you:)

 

I can see how the Antichrist would call the Second Coming an alien event.

 

I didn't notice you stating that we (believers) will be with Him. Do you believe that? (sorry if I missed that in your post)

[M30USA]

Yes, we will be with Christ at the time of his return. However, I haven't taken a position on the exact time of the rapture since it seems unclear. If someone put a gun to my head and forced me to guess I would say we will be taken before the tribulation. But I don't argue that.

[TaraMaiden]

You can't exclude anybody from contributing to the thread, it's not permitted in the guidelines.

 

We remind all participants of the value of collaborative exchange. Discussions occurring on the public forum are to be inclusive of all participants and should not be of a private nature between a small, select group of people.

 

It goes on to say that this is what Private messaging is for.

If you want to keep this 'strictly between like-minded people - use PMs.

[M30USA]

Sure, go ahead and read or post here. I just figured that this was a topic which only Christians might have an interest in and wanted to avoid a potential debate on whether or not Jesus is real. Cheers.

[Radu]

All i know is that he will be hated, and killed for it.

 

If he descends in Israel, well ... GL with his claims in Israel and it's powerfull lobby in the western world.

The church leaders will not accept him because they have corrupted the church so much in their quest for power that he will be a great danger to them [funny enough, i remember South Park's episode with the easter egg club when the catholics kill Jesus].

The free media is just an illusion so he will be mocked, laughed at and ridiculed, through it.

 

Being christian is not about writing/saying God, it's not about interpreting the Bible in such a way that genocide of other ppl is acceptable, and it certainly is not about wrapping yourself in the Bible while you commit atrocities.

Being christian is about living a good life, being empathic to others and helpfull of others.

Good christians are not in the leadership of the churches, good christians are not in the armies, and good christians do not need to kiss God's feet every Sunday.

Good christians are those that are humble, think of others and share with others for no personal gain.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Radu

[OpenBook]

I for one would love for The Christ to come back as a woman!!! :bunny:

[pureinheart]

Yes, we will be with Christ at the time of his return. However, I haven't taken a position on the exact time of the rapture since it seems unclear. If someone put a gun to my head and forced me to guess I would say we will be taken before the tribulation. But I don't argue that.

 

I have concluded that the Rapture will be prior to the tribulation also..although it's just an observation based on the fact that God never meant the church for His wrath and IMO the entire tribulation period is Gods wrath. Anyway, that's my take M30:)

[M30USA]

I have concluded that the Rapture will be prior to the tribulation also..although it's just an observation based on the fact that God never meant the church for His wrath and IMO the entire tribulation period is Gods wrath. Anyway, that's my take M30:)

 

Agreed.

 

And, on a symbolic level, Christ himself said the Second Coming will be like the day of Noah. Just look at what happened there and God clearly preserved his chosen ones while destroying the rest.

 

As a side note on the days of Noah, I believe that it's important to look at what the days of Noah were like because Jesus, himself, said that, "As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be before the coming of the Son of Man."

 

The days of Noah were characterized and noted for 2 main things:

1) Nearly worldwide corruption (especially violence)

2) Human women having offspring fathered by fallen angels (whether sexually or through genetic manipulation we don't know)

 

So I'm looking for both of these 2 traits in the days which are to precede Christs' return. Is there any evidence of the crazy #2? Yep, but very few people believe it since it's so bizarre. We find this evidence in the UFO abduction phenomenon. According to Dr. John Mack of Harvard, every single person who is abducted invariably has sperm taken, ovaries artificually inseminated, and ultimately produce a "hybrid" baby, half alien and half human. These abductees are TOLD that the aliens are trying to make the hybrids look more and more human every generation by doing repeated hybridization with each generation, until you cannot tell the difference between an ordinary human and a hybrid human.

 

Look into the research of the following people for more info on this:

1) Dr. John Mack of Harvard

2) Dr. David Jacobs of Temple University

3) Dr. Chuck Missler of Kinoinia Institute

[pureinheart]

M30, I had a thought on this...ok, I'm kinda lost in this area, although I do believe that demons did have sex with humans..now this was before the flood, correct? Didn't that create a particular race of "people"? If so can you remember the name of that race?

 

I have a question, could demon posession produce the same results?

[M30USA]

M30, I had a thought on this...ok, I'm kinda lost in this area, although I do believe that demons did have sex with humans..now this was before the flood, correct? Didn't that create a particular race of "people"? If so can you remember the name of that race?

 

I have a question, could demon posession produce the same results?

 

The race was called Nephilim. Depending on the translation from Hebrew, it can either mean "the fallen ones" or "the earth-born".

 

I am aware of the interpretation by Dr. John MacArthur (who is an awesome pastor) which says that it was demons who possessed men, who then in turn had children with women, giving birth to the Nephilim, who got their name "the fallen ones" because they "fell" upon others like a warrior falling in battle.

 

This interpretation has too many problems:

 

1) We know from later verses that the Nephilim were enormous in height. King Og of Bashan was in the vicinity of 13 feet tall according to the book of Numbers. It was reported by the Israelites that "we became like grasshoppers in our sight, and so we were in their [the Nephilim's] sight". We also have the case of the giant Goliath, who was a descendent of Anak (a Nephilim).

 

2) How does a man who is demon-possessed produce offspring which are giants? There are plenty of demon-possessed men today who have children. Why are there no giants today?

 

3) The early church (for the first 450 years) all unanimously interpreted this event in Genesis 6 as real fallen angels coming down and having offspring with human women. Additionally, to this day, Jewish rabbis hold to the same interpretation. It wasn't until Augustine came along in the 5th century and criticized this view as being superstitious. Since he was respected, his view stuck to this day. But it wasn't the original view unanimously held.

 

4) There are too many grammatical/textual problems in the Hebrew text of Genesis 6 if you interpret it any other way than real fallen angels. There is also the false theory which states the "sons of God" were not angels but the holy line of Seth, even though every case inside and outside of the Bible (during Old Testament period) always means angels when it uses the phrase "sons of God". The term "sons of God" is a technical term which refers to any direct creation of God. Adam was a son of God. Angels are sons of God. We, who are spiritually reborn directly from God, are sons of God. But in the natural, we are not sons of God. We are sons of Adam. Very important to realize that. So to interpret the "sons of God" in Genesis 6 as the holy line of Seth is to ignore all this. Plus, why were there evil men in the line of Seth if they were supposed to be so holy?

 

5) There are New Testament references to this event in Genesis 6. In the letter of 2 Peter, he referred to the angels as "going after strange flesh" and "keeping not their first estate" (ie, heaven) in the same manner that Sodomites went after strange flesh by seeking homosexuality. This is a direct link in the text to angels as committing a sexual sin. Very important to realize this. You can't ignore these verses.

Edited July 3, 2012 by M30USA

[M30USA]

I didn't answer your first question:

 

Yes, this primarily occured before the Flood. However, as Genesis 6 notes it happened "also afterwards".

 

The outbreak before the Flood was remedied by the Flood.

 

The outbreak after the Flood was remedied by God ordering Joshua (of Israel) to wipe out every living thing (including men, women, children, and EVEN ANIMALS) of the areas which contained these Nephilim. Many people use this example as how God endorsed "genocide", yet they don't realize the reason God ordered the seemingly-murderous act was because there were literally human/angelic hybrids walking the earth in the land of Canaan. It was a mercy on humanity, not a "genocide".

[BetheButterfly]

I have given a lot of thought about what Christ's second coming might look like. Don't get me wrong; obviously nobody can forsee the series of events--but I'm referring to the general characteristics of his second coming.

 

After studying all the Bible has to say, I'm left with the following points that need to be stressed:

 

1) His second coming will be a PHYSICAL event (as opposed to some kind of mystical, spiritual event).

 

Hello M30USA,

 

Agreed

 

2) He will NOT be welcomed. It says the nations of the earth will "mourn" when they see him return. Think about that. We'd like to think that the earth would welcome their savior, but just as they did 2000 years ago, they will oppose him

 

 

3) We know he will return by descending upon the Mount of Olives in Israel since, when he ascended, the angels said he would return in the same fashion. What does it mean for him to descend? I mean, how will he descend? What will he look like and in what means will he come down?

This is where I will posit my own theory. I believe that Christ will come in what the prophet Ezekiel and Isaiah called the "chariots of the Lord". We have at least a dozen verses which suggest that God, himself, even rides in these "chariots". This is where the modern day UFO phenomenon loosely ties in with the Bible. Much of the UFO hype is total rubbish and fiction, but there really ARE flying objects that are not identified and they are proveably disc-shaped and behave in ways that defy known laws of physics.

 

 

Many have immediately labelled the UFO phenomenon as "demonic". I initially did. But after studying the Bible, I learned that EVERY SINGLE CASE of these "chariots" (after the Flood at least) is a holy chariot of the Lord. There isn't a single case (after the Flood at least) of a demonic chariot or UFO-type craft.

 

This leads me to my final point. I believe there will be a war. A real war. When the Book of Revelation says "and there was war in heaven", that is not some figurative phrase. I believe Christ will come with the host of angels and, once he reaches earth, all the nations of the earth will wage war against him.

 

For those who think this is total nonsense, listen to what General Douglas MacArthur said in 1955 upon his retirement: "The nations of the world will have to unite, for the next war will be an interplanetary war."

 

A man of his calibre surely wouldn't just spit that out like it was a far-fetched fantasy. What would make him say something like this?

 

And even for people who DO believe in some kind of future "alien invasion", have they ever given thought to WHO this "alien" might be that we fight against? What if the final mass deception that Satan pulls over the earth is to convince us that Christ is the enemy, an invading alien who is out to destroy us. Technically, that will be a PARTIAL TRUTH. Is Christ not coming to destroy the wicked who remain on earth? So in their eyes he WILL be the enemy. But the lie is that he is the loving, true God of the universe who they will take up arms against.

 

Think about how we are now attempting to unite our planet. Think about how we are weaponizing space. Weaponizing space!? What for? What if this whole weaponizing space is just some lie where they are preparing to create a perimeter defense around earth for when Christ returns? I mean, we KNOW he is going to PHYSICALLY return to earth. Is it that unrealistic?

 

Those are thought-provoking statements. I do see how people can consider God and angels to be alien, since they are not earthly creatures nor were created (or evolved, whatever) on earth.

 

Personally, I don't really see all that much in the Bible concerning chariots of fire. My understanding is that after Jesus rose from the dead, he could walk through walls and transport himself from one place to another without need of a vehicle.

 

However, I don't concern myself with the end times because I don't understand a lot of the prophecy concerning it. For me, what is important is to live life in a way that pleases God. There are definitely people interested in the end times prophecies, which I think is cool, but I am more the kind of person who loves studying the past (history) and living in the present.

 

Thanks for the interesting discussion. Sorry I didn't contribute very much to the topic, but I am enjoying reading it, though I don't agree with everything you write.

 

Peace and God bless you

[BetheButterfly]

Yes, we will be with Christ at the time of his return. However, I haven't taken a position on the exact time of the rapture since it seems unclear. If someone put a gun to my head and forced me to guess I would say we will be taken before the tribulation. But I don't argue that.

 

I do believe Jesus will rapture his followers before the Tribulation, but I think some will become followers of him after the Tribulation starts. For example, what do you think please about Revelation 7? I personally believe that there will be people of the tribes of Israel who do follow him during the Tribulation, but I don't know for sure. I do know however that just like how Christians during the times of Roman persecution against them were treated, so it will be very hard for anyone who follows Jesus in the end times. Jesus' prophesies about the end times in Matthew 24 also very much intrigue me.

 

One thing that really interests me is that people are understanding more and more about DNA and it is possible that eventually, the children of Israel may discover how to tell from which tribe they are from!!! Isn't that cool!!? It is very sad that many of their genealogy documents were destroyed during the conquest of Israel, but it is cool that science can help with that. Even if they don't know, God knows the ancestry of every person.

 

For me as a Gentile, it intrigues me where my ancestors are from... the UK. I don't know who they were, but would like to research someday for fun! I very much hope however that they did not kill Native Americans or were involved in the slave trade. I very much hope they were good people.

[M30USA]

Bethebutterfly,

 

Absolutely. Many many people will be saved during tribulation. That's the paradox of it: the time will be both the worst time in human history and the best time for salvation.

[M30USA]

Bethebutterfly,

 

You also mentioned that these fiery chariots (as in the one which took Ezekiel) are not mentioned in the New Testament. But if the following verse in Isaiah refers to the day of the Lord (his return) then it certainly seems as if these chariots are involved:

 

"See, the LORD is coming with fire, and his chariots are like a whirlwind; he will bring down his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire."

-Isaiah 66:15

 

You also mention the interesting point that Jesus walked through a wall. Did you know that people who claim they've been "abducted" by aliens were literally taken out through walls, ceilings, etc? Doctors and psychologists who've interviewed these people (such as Dr. John Mack of Harvard) will ask questions like, "So tell me how they took you." They will say they were paralyzed by a being and taken out. He will follow up by saying, "So did they take you out the door?" They will say no. "Did they take you out a window?" They say no. (The whole time the interviewer tries to intentionally mislead them by making suggestions.) Finally they will say in embarrassment that they just went through a wall like it wasn't even there. This happens to numerous people over and over in a predicable manner.

[M30USA]

I do believe Jesus will rapture his followers before the Tribulation, but I think some will become followers of him after the Tribulation starts. For example, what do you think please about Revelation 7? I personally believe that there will be people of the tribes of Israel who do follow him during the Tribulation, but I don't know for sure. I do know however that just like how Christians during the times of Roman persecution against them were treated, so it will be very hard for anyone who follows Jesus in the end times. Jesus' prophesies about the end times in Matthew 24 also very much intrigue me.

 

One thing that really interests me is that people are understanding more and more about DNA and it is possible that eventually, the children of Israel may discover how to tell from which tribe they are from!!! Isn't that cool!!? It is very sad that many of their genealogy documents were destroyed during the conquest of Israel, but it is cool that science can help with that. Even if they don't know, God knows the ancestry of every person.

 

For me as a Gentile, it intrigues me where my ancestors are from... the UK. I don't know who they were, but would like to research someday for fun! I very much hope however that they did not kill Native Americans or were involved in the slave trade. I very much hope they were good people.

 

Yep, geneology is hugely important in God's plan. Even after Christ and the New Covenant.

 

It's important to note that angels have a very high interest in geneaology, in human babies/offpsring, and family lines. Need I say how many examples there are of an angelic visit preceding the birth of a significant person in the Bible?

 

You bet DNA is important.

 

More food for thought: what does the "seed of the serpent" in Genesis 3:15 refer to? "And I will put enmity between thee [the Serpent] and the woman [Eve], and between thy [the Serpent's] seed and her [Eve's] seed." Apparently there isnt merely enmity between the woman and the serpent as PEOPLE, but additionally between the two of their SEEDS. You can't ignore bizarre verses like this. The Bible is like a zip file. Every single word is hugely significant and it compacts so much time/history into such a short book.

[pureinheart]

Hey M30, just wanted to let you know that I want to repond to post 12 and 13. Are those the right post numbers:o and want to be thoughtful about it. LOL with the holiday and being sidetracked every 5 seconds, the only thing I can do today is hit the "like" button or say a couple of words.

 

Your answers to my questions and comments were excellent and want to get into it deeper when I have a brain:)

Edited July 4, 2012 by pureinheart

[pureinheart]

Still "chewing" on this and God is sending the knowledge lol, it's interesting how God works when He wants us to learn something. My newly saved friend from HS is staying with me for awhile and out of the blue she started talking about this in particular....

[pureinheart]

Agreed.

 

And, on a symbolic level, Christ himself said the Second Coming will be like the day of Noah. Just look at what happened there and God clearly preserved his chosen ones while destroying the rest.

 

As a side note on the days of Noah, I believe that it's important to look at what the days of Noah were like because Jesus, himself, said that, "As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be before the coming of the Son of Man."

 

The days of Noah were characterized and noted for 2 main things:

1) Nearly worldwide corruption (especially violence)

2) Human women having offspring fathered by fallen angels (whether sexually or through genetic manipulation we don't know)

 

So I'm looking for both of these 2 traits in the days which are to precede Christs' return. Is there any evidence of the crazy #2? Yep, but very few people believe it since it's so bizarre. We find this evidence in the UFO abduction phenomenon. According to Dr. John Mack of Harvard, every single person who is abducted invariably has sperm taken, ovaries artificually inseminated, and ultimately produce a "hybrid" baby, half alien and half human. These abductees are TOLD that the aliens are trying to make the hybrids look more and more human every generation by doing repeated hybridization with each generation, until you cannot tell the difference between an ordinary human and a hybrid human.

 

Look into the research of the following people for more info on this:

1) Dr. John Mack of Harvard

2) Dr. David Jacobs of Temple University

3) Dr. Chuck Missler of Kinoinia Institute

 

I'm still having a "block" per se in this area, although M30 do you think number two is/has happened recently?

 

Personally, I really believe we are in the eleventh hour. Looking at the Middle East, which we know the focus is on Israel, things are winding up quick.

 

It's extremely eye opening and I look at how things have changed and become much worse (as prophesied) just since my inital major study of prophecy in 1987...I think Jesus could crack the clouds sooner than most think...

[123321]

His coming "as in/on a cloud" indicates it will be unseen and probably invisible. How do you know he's not here already?

[M30USA]

His coming "as in/on a cloud" indicates it will be unseen and probably invisible. How do you know he's not here already?

 

You just hit on a subject that is hugely important. I've gone through a concordance and looked up every single usage of the word "cloud" in both the Old and New Testament. In every case but one it's used when describing Gods physical presence on earth. Here are a few examples: 1) A cloud rested above the tabernacle of Israel and wherever the cloud moved the Israelities followed it. 2) A pillar of cloud is what lead Israel through the Red Sea. It says an angel was inside the cloud and it was the angel, not Moses' staff, which parted the waters. 3) Jesus told the rabbi that he would return in the clouds--a clear reference to the Old Testament, equating himself to God.

 

You are correct in saying that the phrase "in the clouds" means there is secrecy or invisibleness. This is consistent with the fact that God in the OT would hide his face from us and not allow us to see him. But this won't always be the case. Even though Christ will come in the clouds, it clearly says that every eye will see him. It uses the analogy of lightning, which flashes in east and is seen in west.

 

We also have several verses in Isaiah and Jeremiah which connect "chariots" to the clouds. This of course is what I believe today we mistakenly call UFOs. Is it any coincidence that UFOs are hidden and secretive?

Edited July 14, 2012 by M30USA

[M30USA]

I'm still having a "block" per se in this area, although M30 do you think number two is/has happened recently?

 

Personally, I really believe we are in the eleventh hour. Looking at the Middle East, which we know the focus is on Israel, things are winding up quick.

 

It's extremely eye opening and I look at how things have changed and become much worse (as prophesied) just since my inital major study of prophecy in 1987...I think Jesus could crack the clouds sooner than most think...

 

Good question. This brings up the issue of whether the "hybrid" offspring will be physically noticeable (like the pre-flood ones probably were) or just ordinary in appearance. If I had to guess, I would say the second option. I believe Satan's first attempt failed and he won't repeat the same mistake. He knows we are "smarter" now so he has to pretty much pull the blinds over our eyes.

 

Are there currently "hybrids" walking around today? I think it's possible but can't say for sure. Dr David Jacobs believes so--and he's not even a religious person.

 

Here is a video of Dr Jacobs on this subject. This particular video was on UFO TV and it's primary purpose is entertainment but I can assure you Dr Jacobs really believed it. In fact he teaches a college curriculum on UFOs:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hc37Zf1oyU

[wuggle]

His coming "as in/on a cloud" indicates it will be unseen and probably invisible. How do you know he's not here already?

 

Maybe like a virus ?