Psychiatry should be banned

[WeAllMightBeNuts]

I don't align with the "it should be banned" point of view.

 

Overused, over-credited, and over-medicated maybe.

[writergal]

I don't align with the "it should be banned" point of view.

 

Overused, over-credited, and over-medicated maybe.

 

That's fine that you don't align with that POV. Realistically speaking, psychiatry as a pseudo-science will continue on, and will never be banned despite efforts to expose all the fraud it commits. Its indoctrinated into our culture and society, so people accept it without questioning it. I also wonder if anyone who supports it as an industry has even bothered to click on the links I include in my post that shares some eye-opening information. I think there is a lot of information out there to speak against psychiatry, and the information that supports it I view as good marketing, but not truthful.

[WeAllMightBeNuts]

That's fine that you don't align with that POV. Realistically speaking, psychiatry as a pseudo-science will continue on, and will never be banned despite efforts to expose all the fraud it commits. Its indoctrinated into our culture and society, so people accept it without questioning it. I also wonder if anyone who supports it as an industry has even bothered to click on the links I include in my post that shares some eye-opening information. I think there is a lot of information out there to speak against psychiatry, and the information that supports it I view as good marketing, but not truthful.

 

I'll check some out. Thanks for the links. All "sciences" can, are, and should be challenged.

 

Much of it seems questionable at times.

 

Many times, psychiatric therapy for many is nothing more than talking amongst friends. If they have the right friends (what are the right friends?) to help them cope and bounce things off, then their is no need to pay anyone. They need, get help, are helped, move forward.

 

Sometimes people don't have those around and need. So they seek a person in the field that hopefully is the "right" one to talk with, cope, and bounce things off. Emphasis on right one.

 

'Cause just like bad friends, there can be bad doctors, therapists, counselors.

 

And there are other therapeutic outlets. Like here.

 

I think we are all secretly in group therapy here. Some just don't know it.

 

[carhill]

Since the OP has apparently disappeared, I have a question...

 

This post I'm writing, the question (here it comes) and my fingers moving on the keyboard and my eyes following the letters and, whoops, I had to correct a misspelled word......where do you think that comes from? Same for the anger and hurt expressed towards the psychiatric profession....where does that come from?

 

Going through the process with someone who had quantifiable organic brain disease, from first test to brain autopsy, taught me a lot about the science, hence why I'm loathe to make sweeping statements. Sure, there's a lot we don't know yet, but that interesting machine we call a brain is working on it. In time, it'll come.

[writergal]

Since the OP has apparently disappeared, I have a question...

 

This post I'm writing, the question (here it comes) and my fingers moving on the keyboard and my eyes following the letters and, whoops, I had to correct a misspelled word......where do you think that comes from? Same for the anger and hurt expressed towards the psychiatric profession....where does that come from?

 

Going through the process with someone who had quantifiable organic brain disease, from first test to brain autopsy, taught me a lot about the science, hence why I'm loathe to make sweeping statements. Sure, there's a lot we don't know yet, but that interesting machine we call a brain is working on it. In time, it'll come.

 

I can't answer your question for anyone but myself. I think the negativity expressed towards the psychiatric profession is justifiable for the financial and medical fraud that it commits on a regular basis. All the links I posted explain in greater detail why the negativity is there, based on how psychiatry has evolved from blood letting patients in order to free bad spirits causing their mental affliction to the 21st century's interpretation of over-prescribing toxic chemicals for a mythological brain chemistry imbalance that cannot be scientifically proven, for mental illnesses that teams of psychiatrists invent and agree upon at their national, annual APA conferences as discussed in one of the links I provided.

 

Frankly, a group of men and women sitting around a table at an APA conference deciding which behaviors should be categorized as which illness frightens me, esp. since psychiatrists openly admit in print articles and on camera that there is no definitive, biological test to show a chemical imbalance or identify what a specific mental illness looks like in the brain or what it does.

 

Whereas with brain cancer (my uncle died from that, my friend has a brain tumor) or brain injury (I sustained one over a decade ago), living cell tissue changes, dies and regenerates, and thus provides categorically undeniable proof for doctors how the brain is affected.

 

Same with cancer, a cold, or a bacterial infection. There's nothing pseudo about treating a bacterial infection with the correct antibiotic. However, with depression, can you see the way that affects the brain? No. Psychiatrists admit that some of them don't even test their patients because there is no definitive test to give them, they just tell the patient what they think, "you have [....] and need [...] medication for it." Excuse me but that's not science. That's quackery in my opinion.

[carhill]

Where did your very eloquently presented opinion come from? That electro-chemical contraption we call a brain. Every bit of it, from the expressed emotion, to the words chosen, to the way they were constructed into sentences. Just because we cannot yet quantify every last neurotransmitter, chemical messenger, electrical impulse, etc, etc, yet, does not mean that we never will, even down to the process which impelled me to respond to your posting. It's all in there. To move forward, we need people who try. Will they make mistakes? Yes! Is some treatment harmful or ineffective? Yes! Do we still have choices? Yes!

 

I was proud to choose to become part of the process of discovery and witnessed a lot of the good, bad and ugly of that process. It was a choice.

 

FWIW, the professionals we engaged were complete and total minimalists, experimenting very carefully with different medications and carefully documenting the process, as their findings were to become part of a body of knowledge and experience for scientists around the world. The leading minimalists were the neurologists and neuropsychometrists. It was from them I learned the term 'baselining' and how important it was in the diagnostic/treatment process.

 

Today I feel situationally depressed. My cat died suddenly and unexpectedly recently. The organ which experiences this malaise, unlike other organs in the body, can assess, analyze, compare to experience, gauge effects, form opinions and express them in words here on this page. Do I need a pill? No! The brain also figures that out, in my case based upon a time when I did need some brain chemistry alteration because it wouldn't self-regulate. Is there a test, like a blood test, for this? Not to my knowledge. Will there be, someday? IMO, yes there will. Until then, we have the feedback from the most complex and currently least understood organ of the body, the brain. Analyzing from and treating according to such feedback is something I feel should not be banned, rather more aggressively pursued to gain more and better knowledge, experience and quantifiable evidence from. Banning does no good.

 

Brain says that's enough. Over to you

[FitChick]

I dated a woman who's dad is a world renowned Psychiatrist in his field. Ironically, the whole family is totally f@#ked up mentally.

 

Don't psychiatrists have the highest suicide and addiction rates of any profession?

 

My friend is a nursery school teacher and one of her pupils was the son of a prominent child psychologist. He's written loads of books, has appeared on TV and radio giving advice to parents yet his son was emotionally disturbed and disruptive to the point where he was expelled. Wish I could remember his name. He lived in San Francisco.

 

A former boss of mine was married to a marriage and family counselor. He himself went for therapy twice a week and I used to wonder what he could possible talk about twice a week. He was openly cheating on his wife and bringing women to his office where he'd screw them. He dated a friend of mine as well. His assistant told me she was constantly having the office couch cleaned. Eeeewww!

[writergal]

Where did your very eloquently presented opinion come from? That electro-chemical contraption we call a brain. Every bit of it, from the expressed emotion, to the words chosen, to the way they were constructed into sentences. Just because we cannot yet quantify every last neurotransmitter, chemical messenger, electrical impulse, etc, etc, yet, does not mean that we never will, even down to the process which impelled me to respond to your posting. It's all in there. To move forward, we need people who try. Will they make mistakes? Yes! Is some treatment harmful or ineffective? Yes! Do we still have choices? Yes!

 

I was proud to choose to become part of the process of discovery and witnessed a lot of the good, bad and ugly of that process. It was a choice.

 

FWIW, the professionals we engaged were complete and total minimalists, experimenting very carefully with different medications and carefully documenting the process, as their findings were to become part of a body of knowledge and experience for scientists around the world. The leading minimalists were the neurologists and neuropsychometrists. It was from them I learned the term 'baselining' and how important it was in the diagnostic/treatment process.

 

Today I feel situationally depressed. My cat died suddenly and unexpectedly recently. The organ which experiences this malaise, unlike other organs in the body, can assess, analyze, compare to experience, gauge effects, form opinions and express them in words here on this page. Do I need a pill? No! The brain also figures that out, in my case based upon a time when I did need some brain chemistry alteration because it wouldn't self-regulate. Is there a test, like a blood test, for this? Not to my knowledge. Will there be, someday? IMO, yes there will. Until then, we have the feedback from the most complex and currently least understood organ of the body, the brain. Analyzing from and treating according to such feedback is something I feel should not be banned, rather more aggressively pursued to gain more and better knowledge, experience and quantifiable evidence from. Banning does no good.

 

Brain says that's enough. Over to you

 

Oh Carhill, you make discussions of hot-button topics so much fun. The brain is definitely a mystery, and requires research but at whose expense? That's where Psychiatry and Big Pharma work together to ruin lives for the most part. I'd trust a neurologist over a psychiatrist any day.

 

On that note, I am off to a bbq (but not to be bbq'd by this heatwave). I hope that you have a wonderful Fourth of July Carhill. And again I'm sorry to hear about what happened to your cat.

[zengirl]

What aspects are you referring to? There are no aspects. It's a pretty cut and dry practice: Patient goes to see a psychiatrist for a mental health problem, psychiatrist interviews patient, possibly tests them, then gives patient a mental illness diagnose and prescription for a medication.

 

No, there are psychiatrists who prescribe more than just medication. They don't generally counsel patients themselves but refer them out, though some psychiatrists still engage in counseling. But counseling is often prescribed and sometimes even required, either by law or to get the prescription. Some psychiatrists also work with nutritionists and holistic health professionals. I've seen that too.

 

I think it's also important to realize that there is a difference between a condition and a disorder. There's a scientific difference in the two states.

 

From a medical dictionary:

 

Disease: a definite pathological process having a characteristic set of signs and symptoms. It may affect the whole body or any of its parts, and its etiology, pathology, and prognosis may be known or unknown. See also illness, mal, sickness, and syndrome.

 

Disorder: a derangement or abnormality of function; a morbid physical or mental state.

 

There are 'disorders' that are not considered psychiatric -- such as chronic pain disorder or whatnot -- which also cannot be sufficiently proven in the way a disease can. I'm not sure that justifies not treating the symptoms or problems associated with the disorder and just ignoring them. Or worse yet, locking the way in prisons or asylums, which is what we'd do without modern psychiatry really. Granted, not everyone who is helped or seeks help from psychiatry these days is that far gone, but some are. Even some who are not that far gone, find help in both counseling and medication, both of which are a part of psychiatry.

 

Relating psychiatry only to pharmacology is false. Really, it is the middle ground between neurology and psychology.

 

At any rate, some psychiatric disorders can be 'proven' (to a degree) with neural imaging. Others, yes, are just collections of symptoms that we've found different ways to treat. Mostly because there are a lot of mysteries in the human mind we've yet to unlock.

 

The brain chemistry argument is unfounded and a lot of unsupported and UNCITED medical studies aka marketing schemes are what promote that myth), and the distribution and over-prescription of antidepressants (which are a sham). Psycho-therapy is performed by social workers or psychologists, not by psychiatrists who are medically trained, licensed doctors.

 

That's not really true. Some psychiatrists (many, actually) do a fair amount of therapy. They do. They are licensed to, if they wish. Less do it now in the United States especially, but that's because of insurance companies and a very Western view. I wouldn't relate that to every country, and even still some psychiatrists still provide therapy in the USA today. Many more refer people to trained therapists.

 

Just because you're anti-Big Pharma doesn't mean that's not part of psychiatry.

 

I never said it was "not part of psychiatry" --- I said it was not the whole of psychiatry. Big difference.

 

Disingenuous? How so? So my stating a fact (Psychiatry and Big Pharma operate together) isn't a sincere perspective?

 

I believe I said it was disingenuous to say they were synonymous, not that they had any link.

 

Don't psychiatrists have the highest suicide and addiction rates of any profession?

 

Docs do, but no studies I've seen cite psychiatrists in particular.

[writergal]

No, there are psychiatrists who prescribe more than just medication. They don't generally counsel patients themselves but refer them out, though some psychiatrists still engage in counseling. But counseling is often prescribed and sometimes even required, either by law or to get the prescription. Some psychiatrists also work with nutritionists and holistic health professionals. I've seen that too.

 

I think it's also important to realize that there is a difference between a condition and a disorder. There's a scientific difference in the two states.

 

From a medical dictionary:

 

 

 

There are 'disorders' that are not considered psychiatric -- such as chronic pain disorder or whatnot -- which also cannot be sufficiently proven in the way a disease can. I'm not sure that justifies not treating the symptoms or problems associated with the disorder and just ignoring them. Or worse yet, locking the way in prisons or asylums, which is what we'd do without modern psychiatry really. Granted, not everyone who is helped or seeks help from psychiatry these days is that far gone, but some are. Even some who are not that far gone, find help in both counseling and medication, both of which are a part of psychiatry.

 

Relating psychiatry only to pharmacology is false. Really, it is the middle ground between neurology and psychology.

 

At any rate, some psychiatric disorders can be 'proven' (to a degree) with neural imaging. Others, yes, are just collections of symptoms that we've found different ways to treat. Mostly because there are a lot of mysteries in the human mind we've yet to unlock.

 

 

 

That's not really true. Some psychiatrists (many, actually) do a fair amount of therapy. They do. They are licensed to, if they wish. Less do it now in the United States especially, but that's because of insurance companies and a very Western view. I wouldn't relate that to every country, and even still some psychiatrists still provide therapy in the USA today. Many more refer people to trained therapists.

 

 

 

I never said it was "not part of psychiatry" --- I said it was not the whole of psychiatry. Big difference.

 

 

 

I believe I said it was disingenuous to say they were synonymous, not that they had any link.

 

 

 

Docs do, but no studies I've seen cite psychiatrists in particular.

 

Ah Zengirl, well Big Pharma and Psychiatry are synonymous. It's a fact. Whether you agree with it or not. The two are synonymous for their shared goal of committing medical and financial fraud. That's not disingenuous. It's reality even when there is a conflict of interest between the two entities.

 

FYI: http://www.cchrint.org/cchr-issues/the-corrupt-alliance-of-the-psychiatric-pharmaceutical-industry/

 

This quote is directly from the article:

 

"With the U.S. prescribing antipsychotics to children and adolescents at a rate six times greater than the U.K., and with 30 million Americans having taken antidepressants for a “chemical imbalance” that psychiatrists admit is a pharmaceutical marketing campaign, not scientific fact"

 

Interesting how the whole "chemical imbalance" is an admitted marketing campaign, not a scientific fact.

 

As far as your comment about not seeing any studies which cite psychiatrists...that's pretty funny because that's just plain denial. Studies cited by psychiatrists do exist. So you're argument is that just because you haven't seen an article cited by a psychiatrist, that means that it doesn't exist? Moving on...

 

As far as the difference between condition and disorder, thank you for the dictionary references and suggestion that neural imaging shows disorders in the brain. MRI and PET scans show autism, brain injuries, brain cancer, brain tumors. But they cannot show the existence of depression or anxiety, etc. It's not scientifically possible because those are moods, not actual diseases, which are labels created for marketing medication purposes. Plus, that still doesn't change the fact that conditions and disorders are "created" by psychiatrists to justify the medication that Big Pharma pays them to dole out to naive patients since there are no quantitative biological blood tests or brain scans to show the existence of said conditions or diseases. It's discussed in one of the video links I provided. Yes, doctors have to label conditions, disorders and diseases to differentiate between them. But as far as psychiatric conditions and disorders go, and the DSM-IV...I have a real problem believing those to be real scientific data.

 

Then you claim that relating psychiatry to pharmacy is false, how? Your argument has no legs to stand on ZenGirl because every medical doctor (including psychiatrists) get their medications from a pharmacy. That's like trying to argue that eggs don't come from chickens which is a biological, scientific fact. It is a fact that psychiatrists/psychiatry receives its medication from pharmacies and the supplier is Big Pharma. Both have the same goals as far as their treatment of the public: to commit fraud. Trying to argue that they aren't, is like trying to fly a plane on peanut butter for fuel. Not possible to separate the two.

 

The video links I've provided in my posts, (which you clearly haven't viewed) some of which include testimony from psychiatrists themselves, all support my argument that psychiatry as a pseudo-science is fraudulent both financially and medically, even if psychiatrists have the best intention. And I'm sure some psychiatrists do practice psycho-therapy on their patients, but that's irrelevant to the overall argument about the validity of psychiatry and whether or not its function is society is harmful or helpful.

 

I say, psychiatry is harmful. You say, its helpful. Tomato, Tomatoh...let's agree to disagree.

Edited July 6, 2012 by writergal

[SpiralOut]

 

Many times, psychiatric therapy for many is nothing more than talking amongst friends. If they have the right friends (what are the right friends?) to help them cope and bounce things off, then their is no need to pay anyone. They need, get help, are helped, move forward.

 

Sometimes people don't have those around and need. So they seek a person in the field that hopefully is the "right" one to talk with, cope, and bounce things off. Emphasis on right one.

 

'Cause just like bad friends, there can be bad doctors, therapists, counselors.

 

And there are other therapeutic outlets. Like here.

 

I think we are all secretly in group therapy here. Some just don't know it.

 

 

I both agree and disagree with this part of your post. I think for many people, talking to trusted friends can be enough that they won't need a psychiatrist or psychologist. And I'm sure there are people who seek therapy for lack of anyone else to talk to.

 

However, there are limits, which I'm sure we can all agree on. How many frustrated threads have been started by people on here who are sick of their friends complaining to them all the time, treating them as a personal therapist? Yes friends are helpful, and venting is okay is small doses. But in my opinion, someone who has deeper issues should see a counsellor. Sometimes a person cannot cope no matter how supportive their friends and family are.

 

So I don't think psychiatry should be banned. Used wisely by those who have tried all other options? Yes.

[todreaminblue]

I both agree and disagree with this part of your post. I think for many people, talking to trusted friends can be enough that they won't need a psychiatrist or psychologist. And I'm sure there are people who seek therapy for lack of anyone else to talk to.

 

However, there are limits, which I'm sure we can all agree on. How many frustrated threads have been started by people on here who are sick of their friends complaining to them all the time, treating them as a personal therapist? Yes friends are helpful, and venting is okay is small doses. But in my opinion, someone who has deeper issues should see a counsellor. Sometimes a person cannot cope no matter how supportive their friends and family are.

 

So I don't think psychiatry should be banned. Used wisely by those who have tried all other options? Yes.

 

I know that (not think) Psychiatry shouldnt be banned......because people who have psychiatric illness and even people who are normal.....should have the freedom of choice to choose to utilize that branch of medicine.....it is taking away the rights of the individual to ban choices.......just as we have the rights to disagree or agree..yay for freedom of speech..and thankfully we will continue to have that right to make decisions and for the people who are given court ordered forced psychiatric treatment........it is upon the family and people around them who have flexed their freedom to save a loved one......they will always have the freedom to choose....Psychiatry is a choice......so if you choose to use it it is there....if you dont choose to you can go to your other choices......if you are court ordered to choose pyschiatry.....society will probably thankful for that choice in the future......and for the people who say it should be banned......arent you glad for freedom of speech......I am glad to be able to debate the issue.....another choice that makes the world a better place.....deb

[writergal]

This is just another example of the harm antidepressants cause.

 

RFK Jr's wife, Mary Richardson Kennedy was found dead with three antidepressants in her system, according to the coroner. That's how she committed suicide. Can you honestly tell me that antidepressants make depression go away when they cause depression AND suicide?

 

The Associated Press: Autopsy: Antidepressants in RFK Jr. wife's system

 

Look, I know I've been ranting throughout this thread a la

(sans Scientology because I don't believe in aliens ) about how strongly I feel that psychiatry is harmful as an industry. I know it won't be "banned" per se. That's obvious. It's a billion dollar industry of pseudo science that peddles drugs. America and the UK alone are legalizing drug addiction with psychiatric prescriptions. Wow, outrageous statement I know but that's how I see it. The illegal street drugs that police hunt down dealers for is NOTHING compared to the blatant behavior by psychiatrists and other medical doctors who prescribe people antidepressants which most of the time, don't help them, and the side effects cause terminal illness or lifelong health disorders or conditions that call for lawsuits against doctors and psychiatrists. Now children are being pulled into this legalized drug addiction being supported by Big Pharma and psychiatry, being put on prescription drugs for ADD and all that nonsense. How can you not find that outrageous?

 

I know that the majority of people here and elsewhere disagree with my perspective. But when you have example after example of people who die from suicide who were on multiple antidepressants, how can you justify psychiatry as beneficial to people in society?!

Edited July 7, 2012 by writergal

[bentnotbroken]

This is just another example of the harm antidepressants cause.

 

RFK Jr's wife, Mary Richardson Kennedy was found dead with three antidepressants in her system, according to the coroner. That's how she committed suicide. Can you honestly tell me that antidepressants make depression go away when they cause depression AND suicide?

 

The Associated Press: Autopsy: Antidepressants in RFK Jr. wife's system

 

Look, I know I've been ranting throughout this thread a la

(sans Scientology because I don't believe in aliens ) about how strongly I feel that psychiatry is harmful as an industry. I know it won't be "banned" per se. That's obvious. It's a billion dollar industry of pseudo science that peddles drugs. America and the UK alone are legalizing drug addiction with psychiatric prescriptions. Wow, outrageous statement I know but that's how I see it. The illegal street drugs that police hunt down dealers for is NOTHING compared to the blatant behavior by psychiatrists and other medical doctors who prescribe people antidepressants which most of the time, don't help them, and the side effects cause terminal illness or lifelong health disorders or conditions that call for lawsuits against doctors and psychiatrists. Now children are being pulled into this legalized drug addiction being supported by Big Pharma and psychiatry, being put on prescription drugs for ADD and all that nonsense. How can you not find that outrageous?

 

I know that the majority of people here and elsewhere disagree with my perspective. But when you have example after example of people who die from suicide who were on multiple antidepressants, how can you justify psychiatry as beneficial to people in society?!

 

Speaking only for myself...Yes, thank God.

[SpiralOut]

 

I know that the majority of people here and elsewhere disagree with my perspective. But when you have example after example of people who die from suicide who were on multiple antidepressants, how can you justify psychiatry as beneficial to people in society?!

 

Okay, this is becoming more an issue of antidepressants not working rather than psychiatry not working.

 

My question is, what alternatives do you suggest for the people who can't cope no matter how hard they try? If psychiatry is banned, what can people turn to instead?

[writergal]

Okay, this is becoming more an issue of antidepressants not working rather than psychiatry not working.

 

My question is, what alternatives do you suggest for the people who can't cope no matter how hard they try? If psychiatry is banned, what can people turn to instead?

 

Well the enmeshment with antidepressants and psychiatry is THE problem, because its the psychiatrists who dole them out to patients. You can't have psychiatry without AD prescription. Then it would collapse as ADs are the foundation psychiatry has been built on.

 

The link to that article I posted, is just more proof that psychiatry does more harm than good. What doctor with a good conscience lets a woman take 3 antidepressants at the same time? A psychiatrist. No doctor in his/her right mind would put a person on three antidepressants and not be concerned about the toxic side effects or possible drug interactions esp. if the person like this woman is already in an emotional and fragile state of mind. It was irresponsible to put her on three different ADs and her death via suicide is the result of that. Who will be held accountable for her death, I wonder?

 

Psychiatry will never be banned. The OP had good intentions but should have rephrased the question to a more arguable one, such as "What are the pros and cons of psychiatry."

 

I've spent this entire thread posting links to conversations, articles and videos that support my belief that psychiatry doesn't help but harm, and no one who disagrees with me has shown me the same courtesy of posting links to support their argument that psychiatry is helpful. It's one thing to say "It helps me" but show me the proof. Your opinion isn't enough with a hot topic like this, esp. when there is so much evidence against psychiatry.

 

Integrative Medicine is the solution to psychiatry. Integrative medicine takes a holistic, more natural approach to healing. Don't mistake it for New Age because it's not. It's a combination of balancing the mind, body and spirit with nutrition, Western medicine with Eastern philosophy and Eastern medicine - herbal medicine, acupuncture, massage, biofeedback, yoga, and stress reduction techniques. You treat the whole person. There are many doctors, hospitals and clinics in the US and the UK who use the Integrative Medicine approach with patients, who successfully treat patients with psychiatric illnesses and medical illnesses.

 

A few years ago, for example, three percussionist friends and I decided we wanted to use drumming as healing with abused children. So we sought out a local children's home where mentally, physically and sexually abused children are placed while in recovery. My friends and I created a 2 month percussion curriculum and went twice a week to the children's home where were set up a drum circle for children to participate. There were children there whose parents, guardians or siblings had committed heinous acts against them, that would make you vomit or cry if you knew what I did. Over 2 months, my friends and drummed with these abused children, and were able to see a change in their demeanor and body language as they grew more comfortable in the drum circle. Towards the end of the 2 months, my friends and I were asked to participate in a documentary film about the children's home and we rehearsed several songs with the drum circle of children who appeared on film. We even had a recital (not inviting the abusers). That has to be one of the most profound experiences I've had in my life. When those children hugged me, I felt an immense wave of joy, knowing that I was making a difference in their lives for the time I spent there. I consider drumming to be a very healing tool. It's used in hospitals already to help patients recovering from brain injuries and strokes, as well as used by music therapists.

 

There are films, articles, books, and interviews all over the Internet on Integrative Medicine. I would encourage anyone suffering to consider giving Integrative Medicine a try before resorting to antidepressants or psychiatry. There are better alternatives out there.

 

What Is Integrative Medicine?

[todreaminblue]

Well the enmeshment with antidepressants and psychiatry is THE problem, because its the psychiatrists who dole them out to patients. You can't have psychiatry without AD prescription. Then it would collapse as ADs are the foundation psychiatry has been built on.

 

The link to that article I posted, is just more proof that psychiatry does more harm than good. What doctor with a good conscience lets a woman take 3 antidepressants at the same time? A psychiatrist. No doctor in his/her right mind would put a person on three antidepressants and not be concerned about the toxic side effects or possible drug interactions esp. if the person like this woman is already in an emotional and fragile state of mind. It was irresponsible to put her on three different ADs and her death via suicide is the result of that. Who will be held accountable for her death, I wonder?

 

Psychiatry will never be banned. The OP had good intentions but should have rephrased the question to a more arguable one, such as "What are the pros and cons of psychiatry."

 

I've spent this entire thread posting links to conversations, articles and videos that support my belief that psychiatry doesn't help but harm, and no one who disagrees with me has shown me the same courtesy of posting links to support their argument that psychiatry is helpful. It's one thing to say "It helps me" but show me the proof. Your opinion isn't enough with a hot topic like this, esp. when there is so much evidence against psychiatry.

 

Integrative Medicine is the solution to psychiatry. Integrative medicine takes a holistic, more natural approach to healing. Don't mistake it for New Age because it's not. It's a combination of balancing the mind, body and spirit with nutrition, Western medicine with Eastern philosophy and Eastern medicine - herbal medicine, acupuncture, massage, biofeedback, yoga, and stress reduction techniques. You treat the whole person. There are many doctors, hospitals and clinics in the US and the UK who use the Integrative Medicine approach with patients, who successfully treat patients with psychiatric illnesses and medical illnesses.

 

A few years ago, for example, three percussionist friends and I decided we wanted to use drumming as healing with abused children. So we sought out a local children's home where mentally, physically and sexually abused children are placed while in recovery. My friends and I created a 2 month percussion curriculum and went twice a week to the children's home where were set up a drum circle for children to participate. There were children there whose parents, guardians or siblings had committed heinous acts against them, that would make you vomit or cry if you knew what I did. Over 2 months, my friends and drummed with these abused children, and were able to see a change in their demeanor and body language as they grew more comfortable in the drum circle. Towards the end of the 2 months, my friends and I were asked to participate in a documentary film about the children's home and we rehearsed several songs with the drum circle of children who appeared on film. We even had a recital (not inviting the abusers). That has to be one of the most profound experiences I've had in my life. When those children hugged me, I felt an immense wave of joy, knowing that I was making a difference in their lives for the time I spent there. I consider drumming to be a very healing tool. It's used in hospitals already to help patients recovering from brain injuries and strokes, as well as used by music therapists.

 

There are films, articles, books, and interviews all over the Internet on Integrative Medicine. I would encourage anyone suffering to consider giving Integrative Medicine a try before resorting to antidepressants or psychiatry. There are better alternatives out there.

 

What Is Integrative Medicine?

 

 

 

"It's one thing to say "It helps me" but show me the proof. Your opinion isn't enough with a hot topic like this, esp. when there is so much evidence against psychiatry.

 

 

I disagree I feel my opinion is enough with a hot topic like this I might not have the courtesy to post links and articles in defense of my opinion>Are you disregarding my life experience as relevant considering i utilize this branch of medicine .......As far as drumming goes........what would you have done with a child who was not responding to that form of therapy if a child had become distressed at the noise.....who shied away from human touch.....who covered her ears.....would you have attempted to reach out to her?

[writergal]

"It's one thing to say "It helps me" but show me the proof. Your opinion isn't enough with a hot topic like this, esp. when there is so much evidence against psychiatry.

 

 

I disagree I feel my opinion is enough with a hot topic like this I might not have the courtesy to post links and articles in defense of my opinion>Are you disregarding my life experience as relevant considering i utilize this branch of medicine .......As far as drumming goes........what would you have done with a child who was not responding to that form of therapy if a child had become distressed at the noise.....who shied away from human touch.....who covered her ears.....would you have attempted to reach out to her?

 

In a discussion like this where two sides debate, yes, an opinion isn't enough if you want to convince the other side why your argument is credible. Life experience is subjective, so if you want to persuade me that psychiatry has a benefit you'll really have to show me proof other than your opinion that its helped you.

 

So let me ask you this, why won't you post links to articles, etc. that back up your opinion that psychiatry works? It's easy for you to attack my POV because you disagree, yet you don't show me any proof of why psychiatry works on a general level (excluding your experience with it). It comes across like you don't respect me, period. And I went out of my way to find resources that prove why I think psychiatry is bad. Have you even clicked on the links to read/listen to the other side of where psychiatry is wrong? If you did that then came back to me and said, "I can see why you think this, but here's where you're wrong (then present me with an outside source who backs up your point), that would show me that you are really interested in this discussion rather than just stating your opinion as fact, and that's it, no need to expand beyond that.

 

I respect you for sharing your opinion that its helped you of course, but that isn't enough to convince me to believe that psychiatry benefits society, especially considering how much more safe and effective I think the Integrative Medicine approach is, since it treats the whole person. Psychiatry just bilks people of their money and addicts them to unsafe prescription drugs for disorders and conditions that can't be proven to actually exist for which there are no tests or cures.

 

As far as the drumming experience goes, why wouldn't I reach out to a child who was affected by the drum's noise? Of course I would, did, and do. All of the children who participated for those two months at that center wanted to be there, and none of them shied away from the drum circle. Not one. Some were very shy but participated. If any of them got distressed of course we helped the children. I've been drumming for 12 years and have taught children African drumming in schools, at autistic centers, coffee shops and churches and at farmers markets. Children of all ages, backgrounds and personalities. What does that have to do with psychiatry, exactly?

Edited July 7, 2012 by writergal

[Feelin Frisky]

What a moronic thread--to assert that anything should be banned and then in the very next breath show that you don't even know what it does or is. Ignorance should be banned. I don't know how you enforce such a ban but since making foolish statements seems to be apropos, ignorance should be banned.

 

 

But just to answer the OP question, psychiatry is the branch of medicine which treats the physiology of the mind--not the psychology of mind but the physical wellness of the mind. Today's psychiatry is really psychopharmacology--the prescription of proper medicine to improve the wellness of the mind. Psychology on the other hand is the study and treatment of non-physiological causes of mental unwellness. IMO there is much too much misperception in the world--even in the mental health profession as to the where the bounds and states of the arts exist.

[Radu]

Like it or not Frisky, mental health field professionals don't have the best track record ... and many get in that field because they have their own demons they want to find out more about.

[writergal]

Today's psychiatry is really psychopharmacology--the prescription of proper medicine to improve the wellness of the mind.

 

Psychology on the other hand is the study and treatment of non-physiological causes of mental unwellness. IMO there is much too much misperception in the world--even in the mental health profession as to the where the bounds and states of the arts exist.

 

Yes, that is what psychiatry is, but I'm against sponsored drug addiction for un-provable mental disorders and conditions (that's what I believe psychiatry is). Or haven't you been following the thread?

 

No one here is arguing for/against psychology. That's completely different than the practice of psychiatry. A huge difference.

 

As far as calling this thread moronic...that's moronic.

 

The OP posed a question to find out if psychiatry serves a valid purpose. I argued that psychiatry doesn't serve a valid purpose and I provided all kinds of evidence to support that argument, whereas other posts just rely on their subjective, personal opinion (which is their right) as proof that psychiatry does work.

 

Slow down there, speed-reader before you jump in barking out insults.

Edited July 7, 2012 by writergal

[writergal]

Like it or not Frisky, mental health field professionals don't have the best track record ... and many get in that field because they have their own demons they want to find out more about.

 

I completely agree with you Radu. Therapists are people with their own problems who sometimes blur the boundary between their role as therapist and their role as victim with their patients.

 

I once saw a therapist after my father's death, who used the first three sessions to bitch and moan about his parents to me. I was like, "excuse me, but I'm the grieving daughter here. You're the therapist." I quit after that and told the clinic what the therapist did. What he did was totally inappropriate but not uncommon. Therapists take advantage of their patients all the time but that's a whole other thread topic.

Edited July 7, 2012 by writergal

[HokeyReligions]

I have not read ALL the posts, but it sounds like an interesting discussion and, I'm very sorry to say, there are posters who appear to be in a lot of emotional pain.

 

I may not be PC, but the horrendous experiments done by the Nazi's in WWII did lead to more ethical, and voluntary, testing and research and produced some good today. Would I rather step back medically a few decades to erase those atrocities? Yes -- and no. I'd be a widow now so on a completely personal and selfish level No. But on an intellectual level Yes, of course.

 

I have mixed emotions regarding psychiatry (yes - pun intended!). It is a soft science and prone to interpretation in the broadest sense. However, I think that there is hard science behind it just waiting for us to discover and understand it. We don't know nearly enough about the brain or how it works or even how it interacts with and/or controls the body. Where do thoughts come from? Dreams? Emotions? Is Love more than a chemical released by a gland?

 

Maybe in a few more generations, or maybe a few dozen generations, there will be hard science and what we know today will be read in text books with the same distance and cavalier attitude with which we read about medical care and hospitals before we know about germs, bacteria and what cleanliness means to health.

 

If someone is in pain and needs help - I think it's worth a try, as long as the person realizes that every doctor is very different and in this case a relationship must be developed in order to be helpful. We have a crisis hotline, but not urgent care centers for emotional or mental needs that require more indepth or long-term care. We have lawyers & their toadie witness therapists to slap on the labels without offering any help.

 

Having been a grief counselor for pet-loss; and having lost many loved ones and dealt with some harsh circumstances all my life; and marrying a man who was very much abused as a child (so much so, that it took decades for physical scar tissue to build up and for emotional scars and attitudes to develop) I don't dicsount the good the right therapy can do; or the right medications in conjunction with therapy -- but I also don't trust anyone. I saw someone for that once, but I didn't trust them. No, seriously. You have to BE in the right frame of mind and emotion to accept that kind of help.

 

I did call the crisis hotline once many years ago and the wonderful woman on the other end of the phone saved my sanity that night. I wasn't suicidal, but I was overwhelmed with a tragedy and all alone. I WAS in the right frame of mind then and I reached out to someone who helped. So, if someone out there is hurting - reach out. Be it here, or a crisis hotline, or a follow-up with a therapist (or several to find the right one) - all you may need is someone to help you sort out your life right now; or maybe someone to act as your support system while you find out if there is a medical reason behind your feelings.

 

Like I said, my husband has actual physical scar tissue in his brain that developed over 50+ years before it became noticable in his emotions and behavior. He thought it was "all in his head" for years - and it was, but not in the way he imagined. A diagnosis of scar tissue and some dead brain cells was actually a cause for celebration because it meant my husband was NOT crazy or responsible for some of his feelings. A 'mental health' professional was pivotal in us finding that out.

[xxoo]

The link to that article I posted, is just more proof that psychiatry does more harm than good. What doctor with a good conscience lets a woman take 3 antidepressants at the same time? A psychiatrist. No doctor in his/her right mind would put a person on three antidepressants and not be concerned about the toxic side effects or possible drug interactions esp. if the person like this woman is already in an emotional and fragile state of mind. It was irresponsible to put her on three different ADs and her death via suicide is the result of that. Who will be held accountable for her death, I wonder?

 

Psychiatrists are given the enormous challenge of treating people who are already at high risk of suicide. Of course they are concerned about drug interactions and side effects, and have a lot more knowledge about the subject than the average person on this thread. They also have a lot more knowledge than the average poster here on the natural course of depression, and suicidal desires, without antidepressants.

 

The purpose of drug research is to compare the groups, and see if the drugs have statistically significant positive effects and/or negative effects. That never tells us how a drug will work in an individual, however.

[writergal]

Psychiatrists are given the enormous challenge of treating people who are already at high risk of suicide. Of course they are concerned about drug interactions and side effects, and have a lot more knowledge about the subject than the average person on this thread. They also have a lot more knowledge than the average poster here on the natural course of depression, and suicidal desires, without antidepressants.

 

The purpose of drug research is to compare the groups, and see if the drugs have statistically significant positive effects and/or negative effects. That never tells us how a drug will work in an individual, however.

 

But you didn't read the article I posted a link to. Did you? So you think that psychiatrist who prescribed 3 antidepressants to that woman in the article, who was already suicidal, had her best interest in mind? I disagree. I think it was a completely irresponsible thing to do and clearly what she used to commit suicide with. She had no alcohol in her system, just 3 antidepressants.

 

Would you take 3 antidepressants at the same time if prescribed to you, willingly? And not be worried how that would effect your mindset?

 

I understand what you're saying, that its impossible to predict how an individual will respond to a drug they take. I agree that doctors have more knowledge (as they should since they have a medical license) of drug efficacy than the consumer. After all, you're supposed to trust a doctor, aren't you?

 

If doctors are so concerned about drug interactions, then why do they over-prescribe all the time? How is that justifiable? Just seems really irresponsible to me esp. since there are no true blood tests to measure the effectiveness of a drug. All those blood tests do is show the levels of the drug in the body, if the levels are normal, too high or too low. Then doctors ask patients how they feel, but at the same time tell patients how they should feel while on a drug. That's not science. That's guess-work.

 

"Sales before safety, marketing before evidence" is the drug industry's motto.

 

Industry funded drug research is not-trustworthy, and, I think, presents a very distorted picture of the truth. The goal of these so called drug studies is to promote the drug in clinical trials as being effective, and line their pockets with consumers money, when really, the results are inconclusive.

 

[O-F4-01] The Financing of Drug Trials by Pharmaceutical Companies and its Consequences. A Qualitative, Systematic Review of the Literature on Possible Influences on the Findings, Protocols, Quality, Authorship, Access to Trial Data, Trial Registrati

Edited July 7, 2012 by writergal