He's on vacation with his kids

[rosieisblue]

Serial cheaters don't mature out of it Rosie, my father was one until the day he died in his late 50's. MissBee's father is still one although I don't know his age, it's probably late 40's or 50's.

 

The only way he can change is through therapy and/ or some divine help from above or very difficult to do self reflection. They are broken people rosie, it's likely that his parents affairs have had a very negative affect on him. It scarred him and your dad's affair has scarred you or else you probably wouldn't be here having been the ow. You've got your own issues rosie or you wouldn't have got yourself into this mess. That's how most of us found our way to being the ow, foo issues. I hope you address them now instead of carrying it with you for many more years as I have. You didn't just happen to fall in love with a mm or just happen to be the ow, foo issues are the root. Address them before you get older and do more damage to yourself by your choices rosie.

 

His father was married with kids when he met mm's mother. They fell in love and got pregnant and got together and have been together since so it can work out! I don't know if he cheated before, though.

 

I didn't think I would ever cheat but I also didn't think I'd meet someone like Mm. He just swept me off my feet and I fell for him before I knew what was happening. We talked more than anything, and had fun, so it was very natural.

[rosieisblue]

No as they get older they will realize you were just the last straw in a string of many cheating encounters which forced their mom to end it. They will know it was him not you and may even have sympathy for you one day as their dad repeats history.

 

that would be horrible for them to find out, although I think they might have an idea already that there were otehrs. I am thikning of slowing things down. I have a few more days to think about it but after our holiday I think I'm going to back up a bit. I don't know if I can handle this.

 

I've broken up with him several times because I can't handle things with the kids and I don't see how that's going to change. I don't want to be a person who's always hated. I know that she's told people about the pictures I sent. She even put that on the cheater site and I don't want to have that following me forever.

 

I think I'm going to pull away a little bit and then see how it goes. maybe we need to back it up a little.

[rosieisblue]

lol AND 60 NEARING RETIREMENT WHEN THEY GRADUATE HIGH SCHOOL.

 

But lots of people do that now. I know of a lot of people who have kids after 40. It's not that uncommon these days.

[rosieisblue]

:) Good for you!!!! It's saturday. Why don't you put the phone with the lifeline to to him down call a friend and have some fun. You can text him first that you're going out and then have fun. Aren't you curious if he'd get upset if you went out and didn't text him constantly back?

 

He likes to be in touch all the time so it will be interesting to see how that goes. He really is persistent. I think I've become addicted to teh attention.

[rosieisblue]

Wait an hour to text him the next time he texts you. See how he is. See if he needs constant attention. Give it a try.

 

Yes, he likes constant attention. I do as well. I think we feed off each other with the texting all the time. It's so much fun to go back and forth for hours. I know that his wife was always doing other stuff so didn't send him a lot of texts or calls or mails unless they were arguing,, so I'm not making that mistake.

[rosieisblue]

But that doesn't mean that I am not going to back away a bit. I'm going to make some plans without him even if he's not with the kids and see how it feels. I think I'll miss him a lot, though.

[whichwayisup]

Yes, he likes constant attention. I do as well. I think we feed off each other with the texting all the time. It's so much fun to go back and forth for hours. I know that his wife was always doing other stuff so didn't send him a lot of texts or calls or mails unless they were arguing,, so I'm not making that mistake.

 

Sorry, but that sounds quite needy and immature on both of your behalf.

And, things are unhealthy..if you have to rely on him, hear from him constantly (and him hearing from you all the time) that is not a good thing.

 

People need space and NEED their own separate lives away from their spouses! That's what friends are for, visiting family, enjoying hobbies, doing stuff you (general you) on your own at times. It is not healthy to rely on one person for every single need all the time.

[whichwayisup]

But that doesn't mean that I am not going to back away a bit. I'm going to make some plans without him even if he's not with the kids and see how it feels. I think I'll miss him a lot, though.

 

Don't play games with him. Tell him that things are messy right now and its' best for YOUR sake that you focus on things in your life, and put you first instead of waiting in the wings and putting him first all the time. Ask him to please understand that you need this to survive. Besides, let them sort out the D as a family. You should not get involved in that aspect of the ending of his marriage.

[rosieisblue]

Sorry, but that sounds quite needy and immature on both of your behalf.

And, things are unhealthy..if you have to rely on him, hear from him constantly (and him hearing from you all the time) that is not a good thing.

 

People need space and NEED their own separate lives away from their spouses! That's what friends are for, visiting family, enjoying hobbies, doing stuff you (general you) on your own at times. It is not healthy to rely on one person for every single need all the time.

 

We have space because he's with his kids usually at least once on the weekends and once or twice during the week, so we are apart on those nights. He doesn't really have hobbies, although he's now taken up jogging and things like that. He likes to relax in teh evenings, either go to dinner, or make dinner at home and watch television. he's pretty laid back, actually.

 

He sees friends and family here and there but his time is pretty much split between the kids and me, although we sometimes meet up with friends as well.

 

I think his wife relied on him for everything, or else it was her friends all the time, most of whom were gay.

[rosieisblue]

Oh no seriously. Do you see what you just wrote? What is he a 12 year old boy? You just said you are not going to make the mistake of not texting him back all the time. What if you are on a long drive? what if what if ~ are you afraid he will talk to someone else if you are not there to give him undivided attention?

 

I feel so bad for you. You need to end this. It is not healthy. That phone is CONTROL.

 

We're both really into our electronics for communication. We text and email and play games against each other online more than we talk on the phone, actually. I'm not afraid he'll talk to someone else, it's just how we communicate. Texts going back and forth, playing games against each other, sending emails. I don't know if it's phone control. It doesn't seem like he did it with anyone else.

[rosieisblue]

Don't play games with him. Tell him that things are messy right now and its' best for YOUR sake that you focus on things in your life, and put you first instead of waiting in the wings and putting him first all the time. Ask him to please understand that you need this to survive. Besides, let them sort out the D as a family. You should not get involved in that aspect of the ending of his marriage.

 

I am involved, I think, whether I like it or not. He doesn't want to talk to much about it with his family so he talks to me, although I've made it clear it's his problem to figure out with her. I've told her this as well. I don't want to know about it, actually. It's too painful to watch play out.

 

So much back and forth and she just does not let up on him about getting things sorted out.

[rosieisblue]

That's because she wants to move on with her life. It's him. Please see it. He is getting attention from her too even if it is negative attention. He thrives on it.

 

I'm starting to think she does it to get his attention on her.

[rosieisblue]

She wanted to meet you. She wanted you to meet the kids. She is telling everyone. She is soooo done with that relationship or she would not be so upfront with everyone including you and the kids. He is holding things up. He's not done. She is. She wants hom and you and the kids happy so she can have her life back without him bringing her down.

 

I don't know, she still bitches at him about what his affairs and rages at him at times, fairly regularly. She is arguing about a lot of stuff right now and all he wants is for her to be happy, have her independence and sort out her future without him. I think she's clinging to him for some sort of emotional support, which he doesn't want to give her.

[rosieisblue]

She wanted to meet you. She wanted you to meet the kids. She is telling everyone. She is soooo done with that relationship or she would not be so upfront with everyone including you and the kids. He is holding things up. He's not done. She is. She wants hom and you and the kids happy so she can have her life back without him bringing her down.

 

I'm just not sure about meeting her. How do I know that anything she says is not with an ulterior motive? She might try to get to me, upset me, tell me things that aren't true. Why should I believe anything she tells me and not believe him? I just do't know WHAT to believe anymore, to be honest.

 

But I can't see any reason to trust her because she's been kind of awful at the beginning after she found out.

[MissBee]

Ok, I see what you're saying but because he's far away he may take it the wrong way and see it as me pulling away from him and then he'll spend his time trying to contact me, I think. And that's not good either, if it's going to make the kids upset.

 

This is a nightmare.

 

Rosie...see how needy this man is? He's on vaacation with his kids and if you tell him to have fun and be with them until he returns he's going to see you as pulling away and cutting him off? That is very immature of him and not shocking, as when his wife had his babies, he also felt "unahppy" because the world didn't revolve around him.

 

This is what you're in for....someone who you have to give attention to 24/, even when he is on vacation with his kids, or else he is going to take it the wrong way? I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want a super sensitive (read: self-absorbed) man who I have to attend to 24/7 and always live in fear that he will be bored or unhappy because I spent a few hours or a day or even a week without him, while he's with hid kids...then runs off to cheat, then blames me because I was doing yoga or not texting him enough. That is so stressful.

 

But I agree with carhill...tell him to spend time with his kids and you'll contact him when that time is over or he can contact you when the vacation is up...or even at night AFTER they're in bed. But texting you while they're doing activities...even if you were a friend, makes kids feel like their parents aren't that interested in them. As for you...fall back as far as the kids are concerned and accept that you will have to live a dual life for a while. It is up to you though to decide if you can do that for a year, 2 years or years. Secret: MM isn't the last man on earth. "True love" IMO comes with the right circumstances, and if it is too much of an uphill battle, sometimes it's a sign that you need to walk away and make room for someone else/another situation that fits with your life. I don't believe in fighting at all cost to be with someone...sometimes obstacles are a sign to STOP and let it go and open the door for something a lot more rewarding and simple.

[rosieisblue]

Rosie:

 

I would say that 99.99% of folks may actually get mad and upset when they are betrayed. Your statement lacks empathy. If you don't believe how awful it is just ask your mother.

 

 

In another post you talked about the personality of the wife as if you had known her all your life. All you know about the wife is what the MM tells you. All you have is a one side version. I think it would be wonderful to befriend the wife. I know you are going to proceed with this man that has a ton of baggage so you might as well do your research.

 

Ok, I understand taht because my mother was devastated when my father left for the OW. So yes, I shoudl try to understand that she was hurt.

 

I am going to back off a bit but I'm not planning on befriending the wife. It would just be too weird. She is seriously old enough to be my mother and I just can't handle that.

[rosieisblue]

Rosie:

 

You are a lovely poster and you seem to be very caring. However, your posting suggests that you enjoy some attention. Posters that enjoy attention generally answer all comers with a lot of details. Now, you have stated you like attention and that the charm of the MM swept you of your feet.

 

Now I see why you had the affair: ATTENTION!

 

Don't get me wrong all of us like attention, but like everything a bit too much is a problem.

 

Men that are serial cheaters are almost always very charming and smooth. The charm is like a drug for a women that needs attention. Sometimes women are better off with quiet men, but they elect the charmer because he knows what to say. Furthermore, the charmers learn where to direct the charm because they know there are women that are not impressed by smooth talk. These are the guys that were PLAYERS when young.

 

I see more problems in the future which may leave you childless. By the time things settled down and the kids are grown MM will be much older. He may face college tuitions and the fact that he needs to prepare for retirement. When you ask him about children i suspect this will not be well received because he has already done that.

 

Furthermore, if you have children and marry him you will become THE WIFE. Let me tell you a secret: Sex with an OW is much more exciting than sex with the wife.. Just ask any OW in the board if you don't believe me. I am almost certain that you give him better sex than the wife..

 

He doesn't talk much about sex with teh wife other than to say the spark was gone and she didn't want it. She woudl reject him all the time.

 

I guess I like attention but too much? I don't know. I'm just trying to figure things out here.

[alexandria35]

We have space because he's with his kids usually at least once on the weekends and once or twice during the week, so we are apart on those nights. He doesn't really have hobbies, although he's now taken up jogging and things like that. He likes to relax in teh evenings, either go to dinner, or make dinner at home and watch television. he's pretty laid back, actually.

 

He sees friends and family here and there but his time is pretty much split between the kids and me, although we sometimes meet up with friends as well.

 

I think his wife relied on him for everything, or else it was her friends all the time, most of whom were gay.

 

Wow! now you are contradicting yourself in a single sentence. His wife relied on him for everything or it was her friends. Huh? Which is it? Did she rely on him for everything? Or did she rely on friends? And her friends were gay? What do her friends being gay have to do with the price of rice in China? Is that another big marriage mistake she made? Having gay friends? That crazy selfish wife and her gay friends!! LOL...Gee I hope you learn a lesson from that and never ever have a gay friend.

 

When your MM gets home you should sit him down and ask him for a very detailed list of every single thing his wife ever did to piss him off. We know he doesn't like being ignored for the sake of his own children, we know he doesn't like having his texts go unanswered, now possibly there is something wrong with gay friends maybe. Anyways, find out everything that he doesn't like about his wife and write it down in a book. Study the book really intently everyday. Memorize it if you can. Then work on becoming the totally perfect woman for him. Anytime you find yourself reacting like his wife would, stop and remind yourself that your MM is a perfect specimen and you should never complain, be busy, get angry, pay too much attention to your kids, do yoga in the morning or have gay friends. Once you fully understand that you have no right to any feelings, desires, thoughts, passions that aren't somehow about him and what he wants, then I think you two will be blissfully happy together. Whatever you do don't become boring. Of course you understand how terrible it is to be boring because you tossed aside your own BF of five years as soon as became boring.

[rosieisblue]

Rosie...see how needy this man is? He's on vaacation with his kids and if you tell him to have fun and be with them until he returns he's going to see you as pulling away and cutting him off? That is very immature of him and not shocking, as when his wife had his babies, he also felt "unahppy" because the world didn't revolve around him.

 

This is what you're in for....someone who you have to give attention to 24/, even when he is on vacation with his kids, or else he is going to take it the wrong way? I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want a super sensitive (read: self-absorbed) man who I have to attend to 24/7 and always live in fear that he will be bored or unhappy because I spent a few hours or a day or even a week without him, while he's with hid kids...then runs off to cheat, then blames me because I was doing yoga or not texting him enough. That is so stressful.

 

But I agree with carhill...tell him to spend time with his kids and you'll contact him when that time is over or he can contact you when the vacation is up...or even at night AFTER they're in bed. But texting you while they're doing activities...even if you were a friend, makes kids feel like their parents aren't that interested in them. As for you...fall back as far as the kids are concerned and accept that you will have to live a dual life for a while. It is up to you though to decide if you can do that for a year, 2 years or years. Secret: MM isn't the last man on earth. "True love" IMO comes with the right circumstances, and if it is too much of an uphill battle, sometimes it's a sign that you need to walk away and make room for someone else/another situation that fits with your life. I don't believe in fighting at all cost to be with someone...sometimes obstacles are a sign to STOP and let it go and open the door for something a lot more rewarding and simple.

 

I'm seeing his neediness right now as a result of his world being ripped apart literally overnight when she threw him out. He went from his nice home with his kids around him to living in a one room apartment and having a suitcase of clothes for a month. Then she told him to get his stuff so he had all these trash bags. Then he moved to an even smaller place for a few months before his parents helped him buy a place, which is still pretty small and crappy but he's fixing it up.

 

He's quite alone, in a lot of ways. His two friends have lives so he sees them once a month or maybe twice, he sees his kids, he sees me and sometimes his mother comes to town and sees him for dinner or something. he's used to his family and all that he built so he's rebuildig right now like crazy and probably needs me more than he would in normal circumstances.

 

Or am I justifying?

[anne1707]

Rosie

 

My background....

 

At aged 13 (my brother 15), dday when my father told my mother about his affair with a woman 16 years younger than him. This day was over 30 years ago but I still remember it. My whole view of life fell apart. Everything that I as a child trusted in, believed in, assumed, was no more

 

My parents then spent a year back and forth supposedly trying to make things work. Eventually they gave up

 

My mother decides to move out of the area and my brother and I both decide we want to stay where we are settled re friends/school - so we stay with our father

 

My father buys a house with the woman he had an affair with which my brother and I also move in to

 

My brother starts to behave like a complete obnoxious selfish little sh%t (and sill does, turns 50 next year ), I take a year to call my now stepmother by her first name

 

I do my best to accept and love my stepmother whilst she makes underhand/nasty comments about my mother when my father is not there - and accuses me of lying if I tell him about this

 

I give up on game playing.....

 

My situation now.....

 

I love my stepmother. I really do. But even to this day I think she is trying to compete with me for my father's love. He adores her as a wife/lover, he adores me as a daughter. It is as it should be but she sees competition. I do my best to rise above and ignore.

 

My brother and I - we have both have had problems in fidelity in long term relationships (hence why I joined LS).

 

Oh, I should add - my father had affairs/flings/ONS before the one with my stepmother. He also had affairs/flings/ONS after they married.

[MissBee]

Thing is, he should be focusing on his kids and you shouldn't "have" to tell him to do so. Additionally, if you can't tell him how you feel, give your opinion, etc without living in fear of his reaction, it's an unhealthy relationship (regardless of how it started). Neither one of you should be tethered to your phones 24-7, as a matter of emotional security. Also, his kids are old enough to know what he's doing, kids are smart. Dad being fixated on his phone while he should be spending time with them, what kind of dad-time is that for them?

In a nutshell, in a relationship you need to be able to communicate without the fear of the other one retaliating for speaking your truth. Are these your insecurities or behavior he has displayed in the past? Or both?

 

As far as the kids wanting nothing to do with you, that is a big one to consider. I have two SS's who are both adults now, I've been in their lives since they were toddlers and my own DD was barely beyond toddler age. My younger SS, his mom remarried when he was 6 or 7 and he has never liked his stepdad, still doesn't, and mom/stepdad didn't have an affair as far as I know. Stepfamily arrangements can be tough and sometimes the kids warm up, sometimes they don't and never will. You may never be able to be around his kids without tension, conflict, etc. Not saying dad isn't entitled to have a relationship but his kids may never come to accept you and that can be a tough pill to swallow for some.

 

Awesome post and so true.

 

Rosie, since you are afraid that he will go back to his wife and you fear if you don't give him 24/7 attention he'll leave you, don't you think that is too much pressure and not very healthy? Don't you feel like your fears hide a kernel of the truth, that everyone else has been pointing out, in them? That is: he is a needy man, who can't be very faithful, as once he feels an ounce of imagined neglect (i.e. his wife having babies to care for and you leaving him alone to enjoy his kids...two very legitimate things) he'll run off to another woman, in your case, you think he will run back to his wife. I don't think it's healthy to be in a relationship where you feel your partner will run off to be with another person...but in this case, it is warranted, as he has shown it and esp. since his wife kicked him out and he didn't in a mature fashion man up and opt out, it makes more sense to be scared that it was premature and that he is not 100% done with his marriage.

 

Perhaps you are rushing the you meeting the kids thing because you feel like the more you have dual lives, the less control you'll have over him and the more chances your fear of him going back to his wife will come true?

[rosieisblue]

Rosie

 

My background....

 

At aged 13 (my brother 15), dday when my father told my mother about his affair with a woman 16 years younger than him. This day was over 30 years ago but I still remember it. My whole view of life fell apart. Everything that I as a child trusted in, believed in, assumed, was no more

 

My parents then spent a year back and forth supposedly trying to make things work. Eventually they gave up

 

My mother decides to move out of the area and my brother and I both decide we want to stay where we are settled re friends/school - so we stay with our father

 

My father buys a house with the woman he had an affair with which my brother and I also move in to

 

My brother starts to behave like a complete obnoxious selfish little sh%t (and sill does, turns 50 next year ), I take a year to call my now stepmother by her first name

 

I do my best to accept and love my stepmother whilst she makes underhand/nasty comments about my mother when my father is not there - and accuses me of lying if I tell him about this

 

I give up on game playing.....

 

My situation now.....

 

I love my stepmother. I really do. But even to this day I think she is trying to compete with me for my father's love. He adores her as a wife/lover, he adores me as a daughter. It is as it should be but she sees competition. I do my best to rise above and ignore.

 

My brother and I - we have both have had problems in fidelity in long term relationships (hence why I joined LS).

 

Oh, I should add - my father had affairs/flings/ONS before the one with my stepmother. He also had affairs/flings/ONS after they married.

 

That's really sad. Does your stepmother know that he cheated after they got married?

[anne1707]

That's really sad. Does your stepmother know that he cheated after they got married?

 

Yes. I was dragged into a huge argument between them a year or 2 after they got married when this all started coming out.

[rosieisblue]

Wow! now you are contradicting yourself in a single sentence. His wife relied on him for everything or it was her friends. Huh? Which is it? Did she rely on him for everything? Or did she rely on friends? And her friends were gay? What do her friends being gay have to do with the price of rice in China? Is that another big marriage mistake she made? Having gay friends? That crazy selfish wife and her gay friends!! LOL...Gee I hope you learn a lesson from that and never ever have a gay friend.

 

When your MM gets home you should sit him down and ask him for a very detailed list of every single thing his wife ever did to piss him off. We know he doesn't like being ignored for the sake of his own children, we know he doesn't like having his texts go unanswered, now possibly there is something wrong with gay friends maybe. Anyways, find out everything that he doesn't like about his wife and write it down in a book. Study the book really intently everyday. Memorize it if you can. Then work on becoming the totally perfect woman for him. Anytime you find yourself reacting like his wife would, stop and remind yourself that your MM is a perfect specimen and you should never complain, be busy, get angry, pay too much attention to your kids, do yoga in the morning or have gay friends. Once you fully understand that you have no right to any feelings, desires, thoughts, passions that aren't somehow about him and what he wants, then I think you two will be blissfully happy together. Whatever you do don't become boring. Of course you understand how terrible it is to be boring because you tossed aside your own BF of five years as soon as became boring.

 

 

Sorry, i think I gave the wrong impression about the gay friends. He's friends with some of them but it became the only people she had over for dinner, gay couples. He likes them and is still friends with one couple but it became too much because it was all the time, I guess. I don't know, I haven't talked to him about that very much.

 

I don't expect to be perfect or him to be perfect and I don't think he expects that of me. I'm just sort of thinking this all over and tring to figure it out.

[amaysngrace]

He's only 14 years older than, not old enough to be my father. His wife could be my mother, though. She actually said that to me when she was telling me about his affairs.

 

I don't think this has anything to do with my dad. And yea, it is kind of a mess but is there a way to sort it out, make it not a mess? I don't want to screw up my life and right now I'm on the internet as a cheater, everyone knows we had an affair and most see it for th elove it is but I know some think badly of us. It's just so difficult!

 

I don't think badly of you for making poor choices. I fault him really because he isn't honoring his vows and his selfishness is destroying his family. And now his actions have caused you to be upset.

 

I think you are in an unhealthy relationship with a guy who doesn't know how to have a healthy relationship. He's older and set in his ways but you're still young enough to change.

 

Why don't you think you deserve someone better than him? Why settle for a toxic partner rather than a good guy?