He's on vacation with his kids

[dreamingoftigers]

Great. His wife is arguing with him via text right now. She's being a bitch about a trip he promised her and the kids when he has no money.

 

Everyone sing:

 

"that crazy wife, that crazy wife so upset cause he ruined her life.

That crazy wife, that crazy wife wanted love but got strife.

That crazy wife, that crazy wife got stabbed in the back and won't forget the knife."

 

 

And what, exactly, is he being? Just curious.

 

And who, exactly, are you to sit in judgement of her?

 

Yes. There are going to be arguments. Lots of them. That's why it's called a divorce and not "picnic time at the beach with my ex goes quietly into the night so I can play with my new girlfriend."

 

What in the world makes this wife crazy?

 

This is so funny. She has a family that she has spent 20 years developing a relationship with. They are her family, they are interlinked.

 

You want her out of the way because you showed up on the scene to be YOUR family. You want to forge those bonds. You want yo go to the parties. Now. "we're here! We're together. Therefore all of you family people belong in some way to me because I occupy the title of girlfriend. Welcome me!" You don't

even live with the guy.

 

Who's crazy?

[dreamingoftigers]

What don't I get? She's raging at him via text and he has no money to give her what she wants.

 

Why does he have "no money?"

 

Hasn't he been working 20+ years?

 

Have they not saved, budgeted, acted responsibly?

 

Did she not put him through school or am I confusing them.

[rosieisblue]

 

 

Exactly. He didn't choose you Rosie. He got kicked out. He didn't 'leave his wife for you' she threw him out and didn't want him back. Big difference between him choosing you and her throwing him out.

 

 

 

So, why didn't HE tell her goodbye first, pack a bag and leave? No, he waited until she took charge and ended it for own sake. He did nothing.

 

She asked him to leave but she wanted him back. I think she did it to 'wake him up' but all it did was make him realize that he really didn't want to be there or with her.

 

He had no room for his stuff so anted to wait until he fixed a place to live. She went nut and packed it all up and told him to get it. He has NEVER said he wanted back, he has consistently said he hates her, he is done with her, he wants nothing to do with her and is not interested in her at all.

[rosieisblue]

Why does he have "no money?"

 

Hasn't he been working 20+ years?

 

Have they not saved, budgeted, acted responsibly?

 

Did she not put him through school or am I confusing them.

 

He has no money because he's paying for two households. And now she's angry becaue he took the kids on vacation and then is taking a couple of days with me and then a vacation with me and she can't afford to take the kids away so is insisting he pay for some holiday they were planning before she found out. He has no money to pay for it but she still wants to take the kids on that holiday.

[rosieisblue]

Everyone sing:

 

"that crazy wife, that crazy wife so upset cause he ruined her life.

That crazy wife, that crazy wife wanted love but got strife.

That crazy wife, that crazy wife got stabbed in the back and won't forget the knife."

 

 

And what, exactly, is he being? Just curious.

 

And who, exactly, are you to sit in judgement of her?

 

Yes. There are going to be arguments. Lots of them. That's why it's called a divorce and not "picnic time at the beach with my ex goes quietly into the night so I can play with my new girlfriend."

 

What in the world makes this wife crazy?

 

This is so funny. She has a family that she has spent 20 years developing a relationship with. They are her family, they are interlinked.

 

You want her out of the way because you showed up on the scene to be YOUR family. You want to forge those bonds. You want yo go to the parties. Now. "we're here! We're together. Therefore all of you family people belong in some way to me because I occupy the title of girlfriend. Welcome me!" You don't

even live with the guy.

 

Who's crazy?

 

I am not asking that she completely remove herself, just respect that he is moving on and that this is HIS family, not hers. It's almost like she wants it to be her family and wants them to side with her. She spends a lot of time with his sisters and he rarely does because of this and he was close to his family. It sucks.

 

This whole thing sucks. I don't even know what I'm saying anymore but I know i can't deal with this. It's a nightmare.

[truthbetold]

She asked him to leave but she wanted him back. I think she did it to 'wake him up' but all it did was make him realize that he really didn't want to be there or with her.

 

He had no room for his stuff so anted to wait until he fixed a place to live. She went nut and packed it all up and told him to get it. He has NEVER said he wanted back, he has consistently said he hates her, he is done with her, he wants nothing to do with her and is not interested in her at all.

 

Rosie, do you serioiusly not get it? Or maybe it really is like Pierre says. You simply cannot empathsize or reason like normal people.

 

Why do you think what she did was to "wake him up"? Just bc you play games to win like sending naked pics doesn't mean everyone operates like that. Maybe she really was done, sounds that way to me.

 

He on the other hand is making damn sure that you buy into "she still wants me back but I don't want her" For one thing Rosie don't you think h'ed be beyond stupid to tell you "if" he wanted her back? Of course he would and manipulators aren't stupid with whom they're manipulating.

 

For some reason, likely ego, these kinds of guys absolutely have to have whoever their current gf is to believe that their ex's want them back. Be it wives or gf's They absolutely cannot stand being left and will spin the story that it's what they wanted along. And they can't handle it when they are no longer desired for from that ex. So they spin that that the ex is always carrying a torch for them. It's so predictable.

 

You have no clue if he would have left on his own timetable. NONE. You have a cheater's words. That's it. You have the FACT that you are his backup plan. If you weren't he wouldn't have done what he did. Really.that.simple.

 

I'm sure you're not hearing a word that's said. You really need to wake up.

[dreamingoftigers]

He has no money because he's paying for two households. And now she's angry becaue he took the kids on vacation and then is taking a couple of days with me and then a vacation with me and she can't afford to take the kids away so is insisting he pay for some holiday they were planning before she found out. He has no money to pay for it but she still wants to take the kids on that holiday.

 

I am willing to bet that their finances aren't separated properly or that there is no standing arrangements with monthly $. Just call when you need something?

 

About 2 million arguments are going to happen until everything is settled legally.

 

Plus at this point he is spending their joint funds (including what would be for their children) on taking YOU on vacation.

 

Of course this is going to be a long, conflictual mess and she is entitled to A LOT of money. 20+ years, serial cheating and two kids. She'll cry all of the way to the bank.

 

Quite a bed he made for himself to lie in. He should have left when he got "unhappy" enough to cheat in the first place.

[rosieisblue]

be prepared. this is his way of letting you down easy that your vacation will not happen.

 

No, I'm paying for a big part of it because he has no money because he gives it all to his wife and kids. Every time we go away I pay at least half because I have a job. She doesn't.

[MissBee]

I am not asking that she completely remove herself, just respect that he is moving on and that this is HIS family, not hers. It's almost like she wants it to be her family and wants them to side with her. She spends a lot of time with his sisters and he rarely does because of this and he was close to his family. It sucks.

 

This whole thing sucks. I don't even know what I'm saying anymore but I know i can't deal with this. It's a nightmare.

 

Rosie..you don't seem to understand this...as a lot of others have said...it is NOT just HIS family. It is hers too! When you marry, that's what happens and unfortunately, divorce doesn't disintegrate that.

 

She probably wants that and who wouldn't? But I'm pretty sure she doesn't have to do much convincing. The only one who will need to convince people to be on their side is you.

 

I'm sure if she backs away his sisters may still not run to call you for a chat or to do lunch or embrace you. She's not the only one in this, his family is CHOOSING to speak to her too and why would they not?

 

Perhaps you should host a dinner party at your home or a restaurant and invite all his family, except the kids and wife, and sit them all down and explain to them that the wife is trying to make them take her side and that while you get they've known, interacted, loved and considered her family for 20 years, you think it would be best if they start getting used to you and hand her the pink slip. Perhaps over wine and a nice meal, the family will come to see things as you do and realize that the wife is insane and is only manipulating them..maybe they will realize that since he no longer loves her , they shouldn't either and then when they get it, you all can ban together against her and so will your new happy life start.....

[alexandria35]

Everyone sing:

 

"that crazy wife, that crazy wife so upset cause he ruined her life.

That crazy wife, that crazy wife wanted love but got strife.

That crazy wife, that crazy wife got stabbed in the back and won't forget the knife."

 

 

And what, exactly, is he being? Just curious.

 

And who, exactly, are you to sit in judgement of her?

 

Yes. There are going to be arguments. Lots of them. That's why it's called a divorce and not "picnic time at the beach with my ex goes quietly into the night so I can play with my new girlfriend."

 

What in the world makes this wife crazy?

 

This is so funny. She has a family that she has spent 20 years developing a relationship with. They are her family, they are interlinked.

 

You want her out of the way because you showed up on the scene to be YOUR family. You want to forge those bonds. You want yo go to the parties. Now. "we're here! We're together. Therefore all of you family people belong in some way to me because I occupy the title of girlfriend. Welcome me!" You don't

even live with the guy.

 

Who's crazy?

 

 

LOL...I know right? Rosie it sounds like she is upset over yet another broken promise made to her and the kids by him. It's unbelievable the way you blame her for every single thing but see no fault in him and your inability to see things from someone elses perspective is astounding. HE is the ONE who cheated and lied, HE is the ONE who ultimately destroyed the marriage and broke up the family. Now he gets vacations with the kids and vacations with you and his wife is supposed to feel bad because he only gets 2 vacations, while she gets no holidays at all, not even with her children. Can you not see how upsetting that might be to a betrayed spouse? And how after going through such a terrible betrayal it might hurt just a little to see the person who hurt you so badly skipping along in his merry little life with his merry little girlfriend going on holidays and living it up while the betrayed spouse has nothing to look forward to other than getting through each day as best they can? No you cannot see that can you? He promised her a vacation with her children and how dare that bitch try to hold your poor poor MM to his word. How cruel and heartless of her to want a vacation to her children and to want her husband to live up to his promises.

 

I think you rather enjoy her pain and unhappiness. You won't be happy until she has lost everything and everyone. In your mind she doesn't deserve a vacation, she doesn't deserve to keep the relationships she has spent years and years building with his family. She deserves nothing as far as your concerned. Another poster here has mentioned a few times that you might be just as narcissitic as your MM, and I think that poster might be correct. You are definitely disordered in some way as you clearly cannot comphrehend or grasp certain things.

[whichwayisup]

No, I'm paying for a big part of it because he has no money because he gives it all to his wife and kids. Every time we go away I pay at least half because I have a job. She doesn't.

 

I'm sure they had an arrangment, she stayed home and raised the kids while he worked. Many couples do this as daycare is expensive. She IS entitled. You aren't.

 

Anyway, what does it matter now? You said you were breaking up with him so why even think about a holiday with him?

[whichwayisup]

Another poster here has mentioned a few times that you might be just as narcissitic as your MM, and I think that poster might be correct. You are definitely disordered in some way as you clearly cannot comphrehend or grasp certain things.

 

Rosie, you may not be a full on narcissist, but you certainly have some traits.

 

You need to get over it because the way you describe his wife, the bitterness and jealously that you ooze, wanting to take her place in every way is not healthy. Nobody in his family trusts you. His kids, his parents, his siblings.. That takes time and a lot of effort, understanding, communciation respect and peace.. You are full of hate, and anger. You are negative too. Sorry to be harsh but if you don't end up breaking up with him, you need to calm down and be rashional. Stop being so jealous of what his wife has with his family. You will never replace her so stop with the competition.

[dreamingoftigers]

But I agree with you. My oldest son is married with small children and I simply adore them. If he divorced and took up with another woman that would be his business and his life, but he better not expect me to cut ties with his wife. She is one of our family and my grandchildren mean everything to me, so if my son and her divorced I would probably work even harder to maintain a good strong relationship with her.

 

My husband's parents are the same.

 

In fact while he was behaving ridiculously, they told me straight out that they considered me their daughter and would not turn their back on me. Period.

 

In fact (and I disagree with this) they told me that if he didn't smarten up that they would cut HIM out. I can't imagine a new ow pushing her way in their with any success.

 

His uncle/brother J just got married to a 28 year old (he's 56) last year. The ex-wife (and mother of his children) carries no resent for the new wife and welcomes her, as does my MIL. this is J's 3rd wife. She wasn't an OW.

 

It's weird (she was a mail-order too). But whatever, no one is going to be all grudgey about it. Everyone has had some time and space to work through the divorce bitterness.

 

People are much more accepting of relationships that do not start as affairs because of the hurt and damage affairs cause.

 

To be quite frank: I would be very embarrassed as a mother if I had a son that did to a wife what OP's mm did to his wife.

[dreamingoftigers]

Perhaps you should host a dinner party at your home or a restaurant and invite all his family, except the kids and wife, and sit them all down and explain to them that the wife is trying to make them take her side and that while you get they've known, interacted, loved and considered her family for 20 years, you think it would be best if they start getting used to you and hand her the pink slip. Perhaps over wine and a nice meal, the family will come to see things as you do and realize that the wife is insane and is only manipulating them..maybe they will realize that since he no longer loves her , they shouldn't either and then when they get it, you all can ban together against her and so will your new happy life start.....

 

Another family example: (sigh, I Know).

 

My MIL has a sister she's been on the outs with for 30+ years.

Both have these stances of "I would make up with her but SHE just won't...."

One was going to have a family reunion and invite everyone but the other sister. Dumb stuff like that.

 

Here's the difference between the two. My MIL welcomed me to the family, encouraged my h marrying me etc. She is overbearing, has issues etc and from time to time drives me nuts. Other than that, I love her very much.

 

Aunt Li accepted me into the family and we invited her to the wedding reception. She did not come because she didn't want to cause trouble (which is fine) so she invited us to her farm for lunch and a horseback ride. We asked MIL how she felt about this. MIL said essentially "no biggie, she's your aunt, go, have fun."

 

We went. Lunch extended into her diatribe about how evil my MIL (my husband's grandmother who raised him) was. How she was going to "this" me and "that" me and blah blah blah. How she can't go back to church because she can never forgive her sister. Really bitter stuff. Her own husband tried to

distract her from it and just be welcoming to us.

 

It doesn't bother me that she would try to warn us of something, but really, it was personal garbage she was trying to drag us into. And a lot of it wasn't true either. I ended up defending MIL. we left on good terms but we haven't been back since and I have next to no interest. Anyone who throws family under the bus to their closest ones has a damn issue. I don't badmouth my father in front of my kid. She loves her grandpa and as long as he can visit civilly and keep his damn mouth shut, she doesn't even need to know that we have had a past where he has been incredibly abusive. She can just know him as "grandpa."

 

Rosie, stay out of their internal family stuff until he properly presents you as his gf and they've had some time to calm down. If I were you I would NEVER mention the wife to any of them. It would be drawing first blood. She hasn't really attacked you yet that you are aware of in regards to them.

 

I think you are really in over your head here.

[dreamingoftigers]

Rosie,

 

What would you do and how would you act in her situation?

 

Think, 20+ years.

[alexandria35]

My husband's parents are the same.

 

In fact while he was behaving ridiculously, they told me straight out that they considered me their daughter and would not turn their back on me. Period.

 

In fact (and I disagree with this) they told me that if he didn't smarten up that they would cut HIM out. I can't imagine a new ow pushing her way in their with any success.

 

His uncle/brother J just got married to a 28 year old (he's 56) last year. The ex-wife (and mother of his children) carries no resent for the new wife and welcomes her, as does my MIL. this is J's 3rd wife. She wasn't an OW.

 

It's weird (she was a mail-order too). But whatever, no one is going to be all grudgey about it. Everyone has had some time and space to work through the divorce bitterness.

 

People are much more accepting of relationships that do not start as affairs because of the hurt and damage affairs cause.

 

To be quite frank: I would be very embarrassed as a mother if I had a son that did to a wife what OP's mm did to his wife.

 

OMG!! the bolded is exactly what happened with my stepfather. After he and my mother seperated and he decided to chase a new skirt instead of working on putting his family back together his mother completely disowned him. I mean totally and utterly disowned him. In the early days we didn't give that much thought. My mom was so hurt and devastated herself and I was so angry on behalf of my little brothers and what they were going through, that I didn't give a flying fig if his mother didn't talk to him anymore. Later on though after the pain had subsided and my mom and brothers lives started to recover (my littlest brother never did recover by the way) we did start to feel bad about my stepfather and how his mother rejected him. He reached out to her several times over the years trying to reconnect with her and she would have none of it. If he phoned her she hung up on him if he went to her house she would just shut the door on him. He sent her a letter and picture of him and his new wife when he remarried and she threw both in her fireplace without even reading the letter. Oh man it was surreal to see a mother reject her son that way. This was her ONLY CHILD and she totally turned her back on him. We truly felt bad for him and we thought maybe she would reconnect with him once my brothers had grown and moved out (we thought maybe she acted that way as she thought she had to pick my mom and her grandchildren over her son, although my mom told her this wasn't the case)but no, she still wanted nothing to do with him. She showed up at his deathbed when he died a couple of years ago. I'm glad she came because I know it meant something to him that she did (god this is making me sad) and when he passed on she was at the funeral sitting in the front pew crying her eyes out. WTF??!! The woman was nuts and I can see why my stepdad got as screwed up as he was.

[dreamingoftigers]

Wow, harsh for your step-dad. Talk about payback.

 

I think I would just be really embarrassed and supportive if my son's betrayed spouse. I might try to talk to my son, but I can't imagine how that would go down.

 

So, um, let me get this straight. Affairs might cause some family damage?

 

Maybe?

 

Hmm....

[rosieisblue]

I don 't want to see her in pain and I don't want to see anyone hurt more than they already are. I just want to be in a relationship without all this extra stuff. How do I get to know his family if she's always lurking in the background? they're nice to me and maybe I won't be best friends with his sisters but I'd like to get to know them.

 

I just woke up and need to sleep more. Ihave to break up with him. I can't live this way.

[rosieisblue]

Rosie,

 

What would you do and how would you act in her situation?

 

Think, 20+ years.

 

I think I would let him go and walk away with dignity. At least I hope so. But I would not have stayed after the first affair, I don't think, because it would be a sign that he really doesn't love me.

[seren]

Rosie, a marriage is not just about 2 people, it is about the blending and mixing and sharing of family, friends, problems, money, stuff and everything else. All this doesn't happen overnight, there are always compromises, sometimes disputes and lots of laughs and tears before the shared experiences create this solid sometimes shaky thing we know as family. I have done things for my in laws that I would never do for others and put up with some crappy stuff early on that I wouldn't put up with from other people, but I did and do, because they are my family and I love them and they me.

 

Right now, you are viewed as an outsider and an outsider who has helped to hurt one of their own. While I am not judging if this is warranted, I am saying this so you might understand that when a family circles the horses a direct bulldozing will never work, they'll just make the circle tighter. Try working on the long term and not the now. I really think that the wife in this case, is the key, but I see you sent her naked pics, so that will take some doing.

 

I think that your why won't she leave him and them alone is naive. They shared a life, they probably have a whole album full of photos of their life where they were happy and that is what it is all about. The long history isn't just rubbed out, it will always be there and while you might be a part of the future, it takes time. As for the finances, that's their argument, their agreement and she staying at home has enabled him to work, a lot of women of a certain age sacrificed their careers for their family, it is how it was and maybe he agreed with her being home. That doesn't mean that she doesn't have an opinion or that she now has to go cap in hand to him because he cheated.

 

It sounds like you are overwhelmed by all that is happening and maybe the MM can support you and allay your fears and concerns when he gets back. There will be lots of occasions like these and there will be lots on interaction with his wife and she will be a part of his family forever. I would suggest that you don't try to slip into her place just because you are with him, but realise that she already has a place, firmly set and that to be a part of that group you will have to find your own space, but it will take time. Expecting the wife to step aside in all aspects of her life just because you are now with her H will never happen.

 

A part of me wants to say to you, look after you, think about what you want and are getting out of all this and are you prepared for the long haul? You sound young and this seems like a big burden, love should be fun, but it also can be tough. It's the tough times that are the test of how strong that love is. I hope you find peace.

[rosieisblue]

Ididn't send her naked pictures, I sent them to him early on and she found them when she found out about me. It was a mistake, no doubt.

 

I am seeing that she will always be a part of things and I just don't think I want that. I need to talk to him but I can't see where this can go. I'm young and I want a normal life.

 

I'm so tired. Can't sleep at all.

[rosieisblue]

OK now apply that logic consistently.

 

If he keeps going back to his wife it must mean that he "really doesn't love" YOU.

 

So honey it's time to "walk away with dignity."

 

But he never left her before. He tried to make it work after she found out about that affair but it wasn't working. He was still unhappy. Crap. I just don't know what I have gotten myself into.

[todreaminblue]

I just don't see where I'll be their stepmother. I'm only 12 years older than his oldest kid so I don't see me being anything more than a friend to them. They have a mother and that's good.

 

I don't resent them, I guess I just resent that because of the way the marriage ended they aren't able to see, and might not ever see, that the marriage was dead and over before I ever came on the scene. Why else would he have cheated on her before? I almost wish they knew that part because then they would see that he had been unhappy for a really long time.

 

He will not let them end our relationship. We've talked about this and he says that I make him happy and he is sure the kids will come around. In time, i hope so.

 

But it's hard when they think I'm this evil woman who destroyed their family when it was already broken before he ever met me.

 

But I don't think I'll be their stepmother. I see itmore as I'll be their father's partner and we can hang out and get along and be friends but by the time he and I have a family of our own they'll be grown or nearly grown so it won't be the sort of situation where they need 'parenting' and certainly not from me.

 

My ex and I have three girls together,an affair ended our relationship.....unfortunately they don't get to spend time with their father alone they are forced to spend time with the other half.....they dislike her immensely....I have told them two wrongs don't make a right so they are to be courteous and polite and to have the grace to treat her respectfully.....my girls are troopers......like their mum......it is damn hard for kids to warm to a known affair......why did it have to come out on the child's 13th birthday? You continue parenting adults by the way.... its a life long commitment......there is no end......dramas fights advice break ups births etc .....good luck....deb

[whichwayisup]

I don 't want to see her in pain and I don't want to see anyone hurt more than they already are. I just want to be in a relationship without all this extra stuff. How do I get to know his family if she's always lurking in the background? they're nice to me and maybe I won't be best friends with his sisters but I'd like to get to know them.

 

I just woke up and need to sleep more. Ihave to break up with him. I can't live this way.

 

Your relationship with him will never be that way, not for a long LONG time. He is a package deal with his kids. When you have an affair with someone who has children, this is how it is. And there's always an ex - Who WILL be in his life forever because of their kids.

 

You are jumping too far ahead, deal with the now and today first.

Don't expect to be 'bestfriends' with his sister. Just hope that they want to get to know and go from there.

 

I'm doubting your decision that you are going to end it. You're freaking out and instead of communciating your fears and concerns you want to run away. Just like how he handles things, instead of talking and sorting stuff out, he cheats.

 

 

I think I would let him go and walk away with dignity. At least I hope so. But I would not have stayed after the first affair, I don't think, because it would be a sign that he really doesn't love me.

 

No you wouldn't. After being married to someone for so long, MOST want to fight for their marriage, all that they've worked for. Not too many walk away without a fight. Some people can and want to forgive, those with big hearts and have faith.

 

Ididn't send her naked pictures, I sent them to him early on and she found them when she found out about me. It was a mistake, no doubt.

 

I am seeing that she will always be a part of things and I just don't think I want that. I need to talk to him but I can't see where this can go. I'm young and I want a normal life.

 

I'm so tired. Can't sleep at all.

 

If you want a normal life, a family of your own without the baggage, then yes, end it with him. Otherwise accept what you have and learn to go with the flow, learn to tolerate certain things (his wife being around at times because of their kids) and do your best to make it work.

 

But he never left her before. He tried to make it work after she found out about that affair but it wasn't working. He was still unhappy. Crap. I just don't know what I have gotten myself into.

 

This is why when one gets kicked out of the house (doesn't leave first) and then tries to build a new life with someone else so quickly, especially in A's like yours, it rarely works out.

[rosieisblue]

Also, have you gotten a feel for his reputation in the company? Not professional, personal. Is he known as a flirt? Has he made passes at numerous others but they blew him off because he's married. You are going down a dangerous road. Research. Ask co workers if they have heard any rumors about him besides the obvious of the two of you. You said everyone knows so open up a little and get a feel for what they think of him.

 

He has a good reputation at work. People really like him. He's a bit of a flirt but not bad, just very friendly with everyone. I don't think he's made a pass at anyone at work, but it's a pretty small office. He had only been working there a year when I started so I don't know much about what went on during that year but it seems like everyone likes him. He's quite popular, actually.