Maybe a different outcome

[Tenacity]

I have posted here many times with my story - which almost killed me - during the time when I was recovering (it took me the better part of 5 years). I haven't posted actively in the last year or so.

 

He treated me horribly. He lied, he cheated on his wife, and he hurt me. It wasn't just an affair or sex; he wanted to marry me and led me on.

 

I have spent many years getting over this. We never lost communication during this process, but it was clear that he was with his wife (even though it wasn't and isn't a good marriage) and he apologized over and over for what he put me through. He went back to his religion and is very committed to it - and to his family and marriage - now.

 

The outcome of this, surprisingly - since it was so vehemently horrible and nasty and I was so filled with hurt and hate and suicidal for so long - is that now, we are best friends. Just that. Best friends.

 

Moral of the story - not all people who have affairs are horrible people. Some are just at the end of their rope and make mistakes. Many do everything they can to correct such mistakes even when it means that life is still hard living the same life that led to it. Many will then turn themselves over to the higher power that they believe in, and do penance for their mistakes.

 

That is what my MM did. We are best friends, and always will be. He will always be married and committed to her. He will ALWAYS be my best friend. That is probably the thing that would have hurt the most to lose, anyway. He never steps out of bounds with me, nor I with him, and it won't happen again. I respect his decision and commitment and I wish him nothing but the best for the success of his marriage.

 

It's great to be able to talk to my friend every day, though, and share life at that level. He is special and always will be.

 

As for me, I am moving on. I have dated a bit - a very new thing for me - and I will get there. It has been a long process for me, and to be able to date (or even think about being with someone else again) for me is huge.

 

I suspect I will get flak for this post from people who don't believe that you can end up being best friends with the very emotionally involved MM. I would not have thought so. It was NOT easy. It was HARD, every day, to get to this point. It was very hard to maintain contact knowing the limits and the status. But it can be done, and at the end, it was very rewarding.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Tenacity

[frozensprouts]

I can accept that you are now best friends, but how does his wife feel about this? Does she know?

[Tenacity]

I can accept that you are now best friends, but how does his wife feel about this? Does she know?

 

She does.

 

That was part of my allowing it in the first place.

[frozensprouts]

She does.

 

That was part of my allowing it in the first place.

 

it may be unorthodox, but if she knows, and if she is okay with it, and if it is what works for everyone, then maybe it's not such a bad thing

[Tenacity]

it may be unorthodox, but if she knows, and if she is okay with it, and if it is what works for everyone, then maybe it's not such a bad thing

 

Thank you for saying that

 

Believe me, it took me years to get here, and a ton of pain.

 

I would do nothing at this point (nor would he) that would not be okay with his wife. I know she is giving in to let him have his friendship with me. She made the choice to do that. He doesn't hide it from her.

[MissBee]

it may be unorthodox, but if she knows, and if she is okay with it, and if it is what works for everyone, then maybe it's not such a bad thing

 

I agree. So long as his wife is in the know that her H is bestfriends with his former AP, as unorthodox as the setup is, if she okays it then that's fine.

[whichwayisup]

You don't see that it's still an EA. Sure, the sex part is over, but you talk to him every single day. He is in your everyday life.

 

Do you talk to his wife? Have dinner with them, go out and spend time with her as well?

 

I honestly don't know how she could allow a friendship to happen between you two. I guess she trusts him fully, that he'll never cheat on her with you again. Or why you would want him in your life after all that he put you through..Though obviously he's worth keeping around.

 

Let's hope he is happy for you when you DO meet someone, that he's supportive and doesn't get jealous or hurt that you actually have moved on.

[whichwayisup]

. I know she is giving in to let him have his friendship with me. She made the choice to do that. He doesn't hide it from her.

 

So the way you worded this makes it seem like he 'forced' this upon her, like she really didn't have a choice, either stay married to me and accept that my exOW IS my bestfriend, or we divorce.

 

Anyway, for now it seems like it's working but what will happen if she changes her mind? Could you handle another 'end' with him it ever comes to the time he has to tell you goodbye?

[MissBee]

So the way you worded this makes it seem like he 'forced' this upon her, like she really didn't have a choice, either stay married to me and accept that my exOW IS my bestfriend, or we divorce.

 

Anyway, for now it seems like it's working but what will happen if she changes her mind? Could you handle another 'end' with him it ever comes to the time he has to tell you goodbye?

 

I was thinking the same...that it read like something she wasn't happy about but because she is desperate to have him around she's agreeing. I've definitely been in a situation where I agreed to something with my ex that made me uncomfortable but because I wanted him, I suppressed my true feelings and let him do what he wanted so he'd be happy.

 

My thing is: I wouldn't want a husband who would even want to remain friends with his exOW. I strongly believe in a reconciliation, that all NC and so forth needs to be initiated on the WS's part because THEY value me and the marriage and so they choose to leave that behind for our sake and my sake. He cheated so he needs to be the one to give up the AP,friendship and otherwise. You can have bestfriends if you don't cheat with them, but if you crossed that line, you have to choose the marriage or that friendship but I wouldn't stand for you getting to have an OW and now have her as your bestfriend. Franly, I think husband's and wives should be each other's opposite sex bestfriends. I can't imagine marrying a man and having some other man as the one I call my bestfriend, who I talk to daily, confide in etc...esp not one I already had romantic and sexual relations with. If I had cheated on my H I wouldn't dare ask him if it was okay for me to continue being friends with my exOM, and bestfriends at that...and I don't think most would agree to that.

 

I hope MM's wife is really okay with it and not just agreeing to keep him. If she is really okay, more power to her but it does seem a bit sketchy and crazy on the WS's part esp that he would even entertain this.

Edited July 7, 2012 by MissBee

[MissBee]

Tenacity, I can't say I understand this arrangement and how it works for you because I wonder why you want to be friends with a man who in your words, "He treated me horribly. He lied, he cheated on his wife, and he hurt me. It wasn't just an affair or sex; he wanted to marry me and led me on. I have spent many years getting over this." I mean I get we all are different and we do things in our own way but I can't fathom this because I do NOT want to ever see my xmm again, much less be friends with him. Why do you need someone in your life that by your own admission was horrible to you and has caused you so much pain and heartache?

 

Also I realize that I'm assuming here but your words lead me to believe that his wife doesn't want you around but she tolerates it. Frankly I can't fathom that either, it boggles my mind, but yet if she is truly OK with it, then good for her but if she isn't and she is only tolerating it, then your xmm is a real **** for putting her in a position in which she would feel she had to do it to keep him.

 

Sorry but I think this arrangement impedes you in many ways.

 

It sort of reminds me of the period post a breakup where it is so painful to be without this person that you bargain and bargain and convince yourself you need the friendship only...you don't care about the romance...you just need to be friends because you miss the friendship. So ensues the messy friendship process, where the friendship is kind of a crutch. Where you don't have to let go fully, you can take a hit daily...you can get your fix of them in some way, even if it isn't the ideal way.

 

My question to Tenacity is: if MM were to say he is done with his wife, would you hop, skip and jump to date him? If so....I don't think that is a platonic friendship, but more like that friend-zone, crutch friendship that can easily slip back into an EA. Where on the surface it is friendly and you're getting your emotional fix...but if you had it your way, you'd be with him. Real friendships don't have that motive. They're truly platonic where single or taken you consider them as strictly a friend. In any case, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and like WWIU said, hopefully when you find a guy, he is happy for you and jealousy doesn't rear its head.

[alexandria35]

Moral of the story - not all people who have affairs are horrible people. Some are just at the end of their rope and make mistakes. Many do everything they can to correct such mistakes even when it means that life is still hard living the same life that led to it. Many will then turn themselves over to the higher power that they believe in, and do penance for their mistakes.

 

So because YOU have decided to be "best friends" with a guy who treated you horrible, hurt you terribly and almost drove you to suicide we're supposed to believe that he's actually a good guy? And if he really wanted to do everything he could to correct his mistakes, he would have cut you loose to get on with your life a long time ago and devoted himself fully to his wife. Instead, he selfishly holds onto both of you.

 

Look, for one thing I don't believe it would have taken you any where near 5 years to get over this dude if you had stopped being friends a long time ago. First year would have been hellish but then you would have moved on a lot faster in the following years. Secondly I don't believe his wife can honestly be happy about her husband talking to his affair partner every freaking day!

 

If you want to be best friends with a guy who almost ruined you and his wife wants to tolerate that then knock yourselves out, but don't think the rest of us will jump on the "MM is actually a really good guy" bandwagon. The whole thing sounds twisted and unhealthy to me. I think the two of you are carrying on an emotional affair right under his wifes nose and she puts up with it for whatever crazy reasons she has.

[Fitz]

I have posted here many times with my story - which almost killed me - during the time when I was recovering (it took me the better part of 5 years).

 

He treated me horribly. He lied, he cheated on his wife, and he hurt me. It wasn't just an affair or sex; he wanted to marry me and led me on.

 

I have spent many years getting over this.

 

The outcome of this, surprisingly - since it was so vehemently horrible and nasty and I was so filled with hurt and hate and suicidal for so long - is that now, we are best friends. Just that. Best friends.

 

With "Best Friends" like that, I'd rather hang out with my enemies!

 

But congradulations, I guess?

 

As long as his wife knows everything, I suppose this setup is morally kosher. But it sure doesn't sound like a healthy situation for you.

 

I hope you realize that no man you date is going to be happy with you being "besties" with your old married AP!

 

And this will certainly become a fatal landmine if you choose to hide the backstory from future relationships.

 

In my opinion, some bridges just have to be burned.

[Silly_Girl]

I was thinking the same...that it read like something she wasn't happy about but because she is desperate to have him around she's agreeing. I've definitely been in a situation where I agreed to something with my ex that made me uncomfortable but because I wanted him, I suppressed my true feelings and let him do what he wanted so he'd be happy.

 

My thing is: I wouldn't want a husband who would even want to remain friends with his exOW. I strongly believe in a reconciliation, that all NC and so forth needs to be initiated on the WS's part because THEY value me and the marriage and so they choose to leave that behind for our sake and my sake. He cheated so he needs to be the one to give up the AP,friendship and otherwise. You can have bestfriends if you don't cheat with them, but if you crossed that line, you have to choose the marriage or that friendship but I wouldn't stand for you getting to have an OW and now have her as your bestfriend. Franly, I think husband's and wives should be each other's opposite sex bestfriends. I can't imagine marrying a man and having some other man as the one I call my bestfriend, who I talk to daily, confide in etc...esp not one I already had romantic and sexual relations with. If I had cheated on my H I wouldn't dare ask him if it was okay for me to continue being friends with my exOM, and bestfriends at that...and I don't think most would agree to that.

 

I hope MM's wife is really okay with it and not just agreeing to keep him. If she is really okay, more power to her but it does seem a bit sketchy and crazy on the WS's part esp that he would even entertain this.

 

Earlier you said it was fine?

[beenburned]

I am a long ago BW. I would see my WS wanting to stay best friends/talk/associate with his former OW as a total deal breaker for our reconciliation!

 

As Bee said above, if a WS truly wants to reconcile and commit FULLY to his marriage and wife, he has to totally cut ALL ties to the OW.(she has to be history)

 

That is SO disrespectful of his wife and marriage!

 

And if he insisted on having his way, I would kick him out and divorce in a heartbeat!

[woinlove]

Tenacity, your post makes me so sad and I hesitate to post, but I will in the hope you will either completely ignore what I say if it doesn't fit or will see something useful if there is truth in it for you.

 

I really can't imagine what MM could do to make up for his years of abuse to you, not even acknowledging the baby and your pain over that loss, leaving you feeling suicidal. You deserve a friend who really cares about you, about your pain, your needs, your desires, your fears. Someone who didn't just use you for his own selfish needs, turning cold when you needed his support the most.

 

Yes, people can change, but what indication is there that this man changed when only a year ago he wanted friends with benefits, then cut you off saying he never wanted to hear from you again? Real change for someone who has been such a user and abuser for years takes years. I fear you are still not respecting yourself enough, knowing your real worth, and knowing the kind of true friend you deserve. Also, does his W know about the baby and how he acted? If not, this is not a friendship, this is an affair, an EA. A real friendship is not based on such continuing deception and betrayal.

[Stellar Wench]

I highly doubt the BS knows that Tenacity is an AP (notice I didn't write former AP since it's now reclassified as EA) She probably thinks Tenacity is a needy female whom her H spends too much time with because he feels sorry for her. This isn't sustainable, and it shouldn't be; being BFF's with someone who made you suicidal is ALWAYS a bad idea.

[Tenacity]

Yes, that's more along the lines of what I was expecting to hear.

 

Yes, his wife is aware that we talk. We don't see each other.

 

And yes, he has acknowledged the baby. He has acknowledged how horrible he was. He has apologized and repented and become extremely involved in his spiritual beliefs and has also repented in that way. He isn't a terrible person, but he did some terrible things. I did too.

 

If his wife were not okay with our friendship, then it would end. I would be sad, but no, it would not devastate me. We were friends long before the A, and now we are back to that stage.

[MissBee]

Earlier you said it was fine?

 

 

My earlier comment was on the reserved side. I agreed with FS that the whole thing seems unorthodox - euphemism for darn weird lol, but if people agree and it isn't a secret, then it's fine. Fine not meaning "good", "great", "lovely" or that I agreed with the premise that they should be friends, but simply fine that the wife knows and okays it at least. I suppose that online tone doesn't always translate, but if heard aloud the hesitancy would be quite apparent in my voice when fine was used.

 

Upon LG's post I pondered further and didn't hold back what I really thought. You do get to refine and revise your thoughts, not so? My sentiments in both posts are the same, except I fleshed it out in the latter post, and was more reserved in the former. If MM's wife knows and agrees, while I question her motives and think the situation is strange and would never agree to this myself or allow it, it's "fine" --- but it's a loaded fine that belies much suspicion, and not a fine that is saying I think it's wonderful. It's a fine that says this is odd, but hey, what can you do if adults are agreeing to this bizarre setup.

Edited July 7, 2012 by MissBee

[Fitz]

 

Yes, his wife is aware that we talk. We don't see each other.

 

 

Lets be perfectly clear here:

 

Does the wife specifically know that you had sex with her husband?

 

Yes or No?

[Tenacity]

Lets be perfectly clear here:

 

Does the wife specifically know that you had sex with her husband?

 

Yes or No?

 

Yes, she does.

 

I am sure that everyone feels sorry for her as the BS, and what he and I did was wrong wrong WRONG. However if I were to describe the way this woman treats her H and the marriage in general, there would not be a lot of sympathy going around for her. But no, she is not the 'bad guy' here, and No, that does not justify what he and I did, nor will it happen again.

[Spark1111]

Well....maybe God has forgiven him, but I never would.

 

And I can't help but wonder why this is important to you and makes you feel good to have a friend who almost destroyed you?

 

And I would also question his motives for remaining friends. It seems so selfish to me, as in, if we can still be friends, then what I did to Tenacity couldn't have been so bad. See? She forgives me too as she is STILL my friend.

 

Friendship = Balm for the selfish soul, IMO.

[Tenacity]

I'm sorry everyone sees it that way. My point in posting was to offer a potentially different ending rather than complete zero contact or breaking up marriages to end up together.

 

There are many details which would help in understanding this but which I don't want to share on a public forum.

 

Yes, it was hard to forgive him, but once I was able to look at it objectively (and my own role as well), it was easier to see why some things happened the way they did. He treated me terribly, but I allowed it, and really, what did I expect, entering into a 'relationship' with a man who was married, no matter what condition the marriage was in? I learned some difficult lessons.

 

Maybe it won't work long-term, and if not, then that's okay.

 

Someone asked if I would go 'back to him' if he asked or if he were available. The answer is no and never.

[whichwayisup]

Yes, she does.

 

I am sure that everyone feels sorry for her as the BS, and what he and I did was wrong wrong WRONG. However if I were to describe the way this woman treats her H and the marriage in general, there would not be a lot of sympathy going around for her. But no, she is not the 'bad guy' here, and No, that does not justify what he and I did, nor will it happen again.

 

Forget the way he treated her, what about the way he treated YOU!!!

 

Remember too, you're only hearing HIS side of things. I'm sure he treated her like crap as well. He isn't the nice one, the hero, the good guy. All that you've been through with him, you still think he's a great guy. Great guys don't nearly put someone six feet under due to depression and suicide. It took you five years of your precious life to work through awful stuff because of him. Yet he's still your bestfriend?

 

That friendship is self serving, selfish and a total cancer to his marriage.

 

I hope that he is just as understanding towards his wife if one day she has a male bestfriend she sees and talks to every day. You should ask him if he would be OK with that. My guess is, it's OK for him but not OK for her.

[whichwayisup]

My point in posting was to offer a potentially different ending rather than complete zero contact or breaking up marriages to end up together.

Because his wife allowed it. That's the only reason why you are lucky enough to have him in your life.

 

You never answered any of my questions from yesterday..What if you do meet some other guy, fall for him..How would your exMM feel about that? Have you talked to him about that aspect of your life (in the future, when it happens.)

 

Someone asked if I would go 'back to him' if he asked or if he were available. The answer is no and never.

 

Why would you not be with him if he left his wife?

 

So as it stands, it's still an EA. Only difference is, his wife knows about you and the friendship.

[Tenacity]

I don't believe you. You already made the step to go back with him emotionally. You are being a crutch to his marriage.

 

And you don't have to believe me.

 

As for being a crutch to his marriage - his marriage is what it is, with or without me. It was bad then, it continues to be bad, and frankly, it is his business and not mine. The dynamics are strange but she has chosen to behave in certain ways, make certain demands, and refuse to do certain things which are critical to a good marriage, and which he has made substantial efforts to fix, and that is her choice for whatever reason. Those things happened well before me and still continue. And yes, that is objective information, not from him but from multiple other sources.

 

It's his business. She is not my concern, nor is his marriage.

 

WWIU: I have dated other men occasionally and he knows about it and has been supportive. I am currently not dating anyone but am looking. If I become seriously involved with someone and if the someone doesn't like my friendship with ex, then I will end the friendship with ex.

 

I would not go back to ex-MM because I don't have those kind of feelings for him anymore.

 

I do not think he is a 'hero' or a 'great guy' or that I am 'lucky'. I think he is overall a decent person who made some terrible choices. Which is exactly what I did as well. Why should he be any more to blame for this than I was?

 

I simply enjoyed his friendship long before it became anything more, and am now back at the point where I continue to enjoy what we once had.

 

I didn't mean to get into a debate about this. I just wanted to share where I was at. I am not upset or defensive about any of the comments here because I understand why they are being said, given the small amount of information I've been able to share here. And also because it just isn't that big of a deal to me anymore.